nlMediator:

Nice try. Running away from your illogic and moving to omnipotence. God is omnipotent but did not want to create 'plastic' people. He wanted human beings with a will who'll decide on their own how to relate to Him. So, correcting their misdeeds ahead of time defeats the purpose - both for the humans and for God Himself.

What a God!!! He already knows even before you were born that you are going to commit a particular sin, and yet he goes to create you anyway And then when you then commit that sin, it is counted against you, Am I reading you properly? This your God knew the 9/11 bombers are going to kill 3000+ innocent people and yet, not only did he create them, the made sure nothing happens to them until they were old enough to commit the sin he knew they will commit even b4 he created them. And he did nothing to stop them!!! What a powerfull and loving God. If he is anywhere, there should be a warrant for his arrest for aiding and abetting mass murder!!! He told us in his book(bible) how he made the sun to stand still for a while so that his chosen people(israelites) could kill more people that he created but did not choose . This is the God you worship What a loving God?

nlMediator:

How illogical. You can foresee something and still feel pain. If you do not study for a difficult exam, you can 'foresee' that you'll fail. Won't lessen the pain when you see the results. Ditto, you can foresee that a wayward child will be in trouble. Not a guarantee against heart break.

You are even making this your God look worse. You are making him look like an ordinary man! What you are implying is that he may be omniscient, but he is not omnipotent. He can foresee the problem, but he cannot do anything about it. Or do you mean he can do something about it, but deliberately refuses to do anything?. He prefers to moan and groan afterwards like the 'truant student' or the 'helpless father' in your example. I thought it is God we are talking about, - who is suppossed to be all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving, omni-everything Maybe he doesnt have all the powers we think he has. A god who suffers heart break?? lol

Joagbaje:

Yes of course, God is emotional . We are his reflection.

Genesis 6:6
6 The Lord was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.

Your biblical quote shows that your God is not omniscient _ he could not foresee the effects of his actions.

ALL religions are associated with violence. All through the ages, any religion that did not practise violence sometime in its history, usually dies out. All religions have used violence to "win" and keep converts

The only way to understand suffering in this world is to accept that there is no God as we know it. If you want to know that there is no God, you just go to any big hospital and visit the children’s ward. You will see innocent children, new-born babies who start suffering from the day they were born, and live short, miserable and painful lives!
I used to wonder whether a supposedly omniscient God was seeing all these children going all through this. Inevitably, you will conclude that: It is either this God is not omniscient (he cannot see these babies suffering) or he is not omnipotent (he can see it but he cannot do anything about it) Or, he is omnipotent, but refuses to do anything about it - which is even worse. He is even supposed to have foreseen the suffering and prevented it, either by not creating these malformed babies in the first place (since he is said to have created these babies in the first place) or healing them instantaneously. Or does he enjoy seeing babies suffer? Or he wants to be begged first? Heads or tails, this concept of God falls flat on its face when subjected to scrutiny.

yommyuk:

True.

Let's me make one thing clear to you, from the outset the death of Jesus was not something that could easily be expressed in a logical, analytical terminology. Even if the meaning could be encapsulated in words at all, they would need to be symbolic and pictoral words, language that would use the familar and ordinary to describe a reality that was quite extraordinary. 'Figures of speech' more like.

For that reason, the death and ressurection of Jesus Christ surely has a deeper spiritual connotation which is beyond human comprehension. On that note, I AGREE

What you mean is that even you, a human (I think) have no comprehension of what you are talking about

eccentric:

Beats my mind. I've been frequenting this side of NL and have been wondering why I keep seeing a lot of agnostics and skeptics in almost every thread.  What on earth are they doing here or has Atheism become a religion? Do pls enlighten me.

You must be born at least twice to qualify for the religion section!
To be a moderator, you will need to speak in at least ten tongues

I am sorry, but I dont understand what these 'miracles' are meant to prove. What you mean is that God first allows a person to suffer from a disease for some time, and sometimes, real SUFFERING for quite a while, and when God now sees you have suffered enough, or you are literarily begging for mercy, he then chooses one or two out of thousands that are with the same ailment and cures them . The rest he allows to die or the suffering to continue So what really is being proved? I am informed that he can cure everyone if he wants to, but I don't know why he doesn't. He can even do better --- he can PREVENT the ailments from starting in the first place. Maybe he want to impress us with his 'powers', so he makes, or allows peolpe to suffer for a while so that when he stops the suffering, we will send more money to his agents, (sorry, pastors) here, via celestial union money tranfer

Joagbaje:

@alaper
God didn't make the chikdren sick. Satan is responsible for most humans suffering. And that's why the gospel came to end them.

Interesting!!! So, it was not God that made the children sick But God sees them suffering everyday, and does nothing to stop the suffering What kind of God is that Is that the one you worship That smells like a sadistic being to me!!!!! A being that sees innocent babies suffering and made sick and miserable by Satan (that God himself created ) and he does NOTHING to stop it. And he is supposed to be omnipotent, meaning he can stop it if he wants to!!! But he refuses!!!! Is that your God!!! He is even supposed to be able to forsee the suffering, and be able to prevent it!!!! Yet he deliberately refuses!!! Does he enjoy watching these children suffering And you worship such a being??

if you want to have evidence that there is no God, you just go to the children's ward of any hospital. You will see innocent babies suffering, and some live painful, miserable, and short lives!!! You wonder, is there a God watching all these? If there is a God, what does he gain by making, or watching these children suffer? And this God is supposed to be omniscient, meaning, he is not only aware of these innocent little ones suffering, he is supposed to even have foreseen the suffering!!! He created them deliberately to live short, miserable and painful lives?? Or maybe he is not omnipotent, meaning he can see these children suffering, but he cannot do anything about it? Or maybe he is causing the suffering himself then what kind of God is that?? Whichever way you look at it, the concept of God as we have it today does not make sense.

Could this lady be sick, and asking for help? We all have varying capacities of copying with stress. Please, I beg you get help through your GP!!!! British justice would not recognise naging as a defence.

The classical explanation of the phenomenon of 'sin' is that God gave us 'free will' to choose between good and evil, but man has chosen to exercise that freewill wrongly. I am just curious whether people who end up in heaven will still be able to exercise freewill, or will they all be robots forever? If people in heaven are going to be robots forever, it doesnt look like an interesting place to me. If there is freewill, that means it will still be possible to make wrong decisions in heaven Can you then 'sin' in heaven? The more you look at this heaven idea, the more ridiculous it looks!!

Has anyone considered that she might be the one having unrealistic expectations about life in the UK?  Many "ïmported" ladies land here thinking London is paved with gold, and money is there just to be picked!!.  I guess it the unrealistic expectations of the lady that is contributing to the man's fustration.  The poor man is working his ass out to meet her expectations and it is still not enough!  My nephew that visited me recently ran up a bill of 400 pounds in one week phoning his friends at home!  I was livid with anger, but you needed to see his reaction!  To him it was not a big deal, because we are in London, and I am working!!  I think the problems are her unrealistic expectations of life in London.  The myth of 'life abroad' which probably is part of what made her love and marry him has now evaporated.  She says he nags but for what?  I don't believe it is the accent alone.  The earlier she comes down to the real world and realise that marriage is tough, and living in Britain is also tougher, cosidering you are unemployed, and unemployable,  the better for you.  The advice that you should breakup is not sound.  What make you think there are perfect men out there.  A man nags you and you want to kill him.  Suppose the next one physically abuses you, or cheats on you, does not support you financially?   Get real my dear!!!!

Joagbaje:

2 Timothy 3:16
16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Peter 1:20-21
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.

An example of circular reasoning!! Quoting from the bible to prove that the bible is true!!

I have a completely different opinion on this issue.
Religion has nothing to do with morality.  Infact, the ‘morality’ of the religious is not real.  They engage in what I call “command morality” While the non-religious has developed the ability to reason out moral issues on their merit, the religious has to follow pre-packaged instructions from his holy book. Or worse, follow instructions from other people who claim to know the opinion of their God.  These self-styled men of God just package their own infantile moralities or immoralities as the word of God.  That is why you have dozens of interpretations of the same passage of a holy book. And each proponent of a particular interpretation firmly believes his own interpretation is the real opinion of God!!
Why do you still have ‘bible study’ more than 2000 years after the book was written?  As if all the possible meanings have not been discovered yet!!  New meanings, and newer twists to old meanings of the same passages are still being churned out daily in various churches, bible study sessions, seminaries, and religious communes around the world.
“Command morality” is what makes a pastor in calabar to brand an innocent child a witch and torture them in the name of deliverance!  Command morality is what causes a Boko Haram convert to kill fellow human beings just because they don’t share his beliefs. Command morality is the underlying factor for the September 11 disaster,  the crusades of old, religious wars and a lot of man’s inhumanity to man!  An Aladura prophetess was arrested in Lagos recently for burning the two hands of a little girl, believing she was being delivered from evil spirits!!  You need to have seen her on TV.  She sincerely believed she was helping the poor girl!!
When you become religious, you mortgage a bit of you right and ability to reason out moral issues for yourself. The reasoning has already been done for you.  Independent reasoning is frowned upon.  Just listen to your ‘man of God’ for the direct instructions from God or his interpretation of passages of the holy book(instruction manual)  And the more religious you get, the more you mortgage.  In the extreme, you become a zombie, a cult member, following only the instructions of the leader, or the leader’s interpretation of the holy book for even basic aspects of your life, like what to eat, what to wear, how to spend your money etc.
Believing in God does not make you good.  It does not improve your ability to be good.  You do good deeds when the holy book instructs you to do so, or when it promises some reward either here or in an afterlife.  I don’t know how many religious people  will still do good deeds if they are told there are no ‘blessings’  or  ‘eternal life’ to be derived from such acts.  You can be good or bad whether you believe in God or not.  And you are an intrinsically better person when you are good without believing in God.

I have asked this question a million times!!  Can someone tell me what actually happens after a person dies??

FAITH IS BELIEF WITHOUT EVIDENCE!!!! Simple.

When you become "born again" you lose touch with the real world! 
You lose the ability to think rationally! 
You will need to refer to to a book written by illiterate sheep rearers centuries ago to make sense of your life. 
You will feel an irresistable urge to tell other people how to run their lives!
You will feel the need to give money to professional conmen who promise you utopia.
You will need regular brainwashing sessions to keep you ""on fire for the lord" (in plain english, to remain locked in that mind set!) 
You will only be able to engage in what phillosophers call 'çommad morality'  In other words, you lose the ability to reason out moral issues yourself.  You, from then on will depend on a precooked stone aged recipe to address day to day affairs in your life. It will tell you what to do in all aspects of your life, from what to wear, to what you can eat or drink, to who to hate!!!  Yes, who to hate!!!    
My advice?  To be born once is enough!!!!!

Babalola33:

Please this is a serious issue
I want to hear from God. I want to hear God speak to me in person
I have heard countless, countless times where people say they heard from God.
Most pastors i listen to outrightly say they heard him AUDIBLY speaking in a small soft voice!
I want God to speak to me too, Audibly too

What do i have to do?
Do i have to fast and pray? For how long? 1week? 1month?
When i pray do i tell God to speak to me?
Please anyone that knows what to do to hear from God please tell me
I'm not even going to start doubting that God speaks to people audibly otherwise i wont even be opening this thread

Moderator pls put out this thread on the from page
I'm so desperate to hear from God, because if i do i know my life will change

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEELPP!!!!!!!!!!

Which God? Is it the christian one? Or the Muslim One ? Or the Hindu one? As at the last count UNESCO counted about 4500 Gods out there being worshiped and prayed to by various groups. I would just guess you are probably interested in the christian one. Some claim if you starve yourself (fasting) enough your blood sugar level will come down enough that you will start seeing things and hearing voices More seriously, what people call " hearing God" is just intuition! period! You are in charge of your life . Take control! Dont wait for any voice. Your 'God' is within you. I wish you well.

mabell:

Everybody is just against Pastors forgetting that they are not the originators of the first fruits
The first fruits started in the bible days,even now and not even in the days of Jesus

Ex 23:19 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
Le 2:14 And if thou offer a meat offering of thy firstfruits unto the LORD, thou shalt offer for the meat offering of thy firstfruits green ears of corn dried by the fire, even corn beaten out of full ears.
Le 23:17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD.
Pr 3:9 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:

God gave specifications through his prophets, that's to show you the importance of the first fruit and he specifically stated that it should be given to the prophet, so, which one is your own about giving to the pastor or the pastor asking for it. If the pastor can talk about any other subject, how much more about the firstfruits.
I'm not aware he forces anybody to give, it is a thing of choice in as much as God demands for it.
Any bible believing church should preach firstfruits
I give my firstfruits, it is not the first or second and neither will it be the last
It is my money remember
At this point i have read it in the bible with my two eyes so it is not whether pastor says so or not, i just give it
abi the bible na lie!

I can't see any cash in your quotation above, only agricultural products.  I hope you don.t advocate people should kill their children if they are abusive, because it is clearly written in the bible.  Lev.: 20; 9
I hope you don't advocate killing of women who are not virgins on their wedding night because it is clearly written in the bible!!  Deut. 22: 20 -21.
It will be difficult for you to get every one who works on Saturday (Sabbath day) to be executed!!  because it is clearly written in the bible!!  Exodus 31:12 - 15
I am sure many people will complain if you advocate that entire towns should be wiped out if one person is found to be worshiping another God there!! because it is written in the bible with detailed and clear specifications!!  Deut. 13: 13 -19
I hope you don't advocate the killing of any pastor who makes a prediction, but that prediction did not happen because according to the bible they should all be killed!!  Deut. 13: 1 -5;  Deut. 18: 20 - 22
Please take my advice:  Anyone who asks for your money quoting  the bible and promising some 'blessing' in the future is by definition committing advance fee fraud!!

Eveoeve:

What do u and your type stand to gain by opening these type of threads?! It seems u guys have made a career out of criticising churches and their pastors! If u dont like your church or pastor why not simply go somewhere else or is it by force to worship there? May God deliver u oh.

Http://naturekay..com

Are you planning to surrender your January salary to your Pastor?  I wish you luck and 'blessings'

It seems the problem is quite serious!!!!

http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/News/5397122-183/story.csp

A friend just told me that his pastor is ordering them, under the threat of hell fire to surrender their entire January salaries to him or else!!!!  This is under the guise of "first fruit"  I first laughed it off as a joke, but on checking some churches' websites, I found out that this is not an isolated thing!!  Even the RCCG preaches it on its website!!
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:QOlIgIi65kMJ:resources.rccg.org/sunday-school/firstfruits-2009201051/+church+january+salary+first+fruit&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
  Of course, in Christ embassy, it seems to be the norm.  Workers are said to complain that there is just no pay check in january in the name of first fruit!!!!!!    This is wikedness at its worst.  It ranks in the same level as violation!!!  It is their minds that is being violated!!!
http://www.huhuonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1141:chris-oyakhilomes-christ-embassy-deadbeat-employers&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=18
Is there a way to help these people?  Its like a woman in an abusive relationship.  They still love the man who regularly beats them black and blue, and keep going back.

The bottom line is that you have not addressed the question in the post. Everything you feel, everything you see and hear in christianity: prophesy, miracles, testimonies, adherents of other religions also feel and see similar things!!! It is not rational to claim that what they see in their own religion is false, and only what YOU feel and see is true. As at the last count, UNESCO counted about four thousand five hundred different gods being worshiped in various parts of the world. All of them have their devout adherents, who are really to die for their beliefs. And many have indeed died for those beliefs. Some have their sacred texts, their own creation stories, miracle claims, testimonies of prophesies fufilled healings etc. Many of their followers feel just as strongly as you feel about christianity, maybe even stronger. I doubt if you are ready to die for your faith. Not now when your money has just started rolling in . Each one of you is claiming anyone who doesn't agree with your belief is going to hell!! At least you can understand why an outsider may be confused. Commonsense dictates not all of them can be true. I will go even further, none of them is true!!

Joagbaje:

They all acknowledge there is God. The sango worshippers only see sango as a medium to the supreme God. The witness of God is in every man. Even though some denies it. Sango worshippers don't see sango as creator. He was a man that was deified . Islam believe there is a supreme God of Abraham. The issue is not multiplicity of God. But which way is the right way to him?

According to you then, Sango may be the way. I think I may settle for Sango. At least they don't collect tithes, and their holy men don't go in private jets

Joagbaje:

It's out of the question.Apart from the inner witness of the reality of God. The physical proof and witness of the power of God is enough to clear every doubt .The prophecies of the bible which are had historica fulfilmen , the prophecies we are being fulfiled in our time and the prophecies of the future that is unfolding daily are proofs . Not to talk about the healings and miracles. The casting out of devils, the gifts of the spirit , like Word of Knowledge, Word of Wisdom,l If there's a other God, he would have manifested himself.

I thought that was the 'gist'of the post itself!! All religions have their own fufilled prophesies, miracle claims, words of 'wisdom', etc I have heard stories of people cursed by shango who were struck down by thunder! Maybe shango is the true God? Even Guru Marahaji claims to have made some predictions that have come true, and healed many of his followers!! Maybe we should all follow Guru Marahaji then?

Isaac Newton
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Sir Isaac Newton


Sir Isaac Newton FRS [OS: 25 December 1642 – 20 March 1726])[1] was an English physicist, mathematician, astronomer, natural philosopher, alchemist, and theologian, and is considered by many scholars and members of the general public to be one of the most influential people in human history. His Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica (Latin for "Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy"; usually called the Principia), published in 1687, is probably the most important scientific book ever written. It lays the groundwork for most of classical mechanics. In this work, Newton described universal gravitation and the three laws of motion, which dominated the scientific view of the physical universe for the next three centuries. Newton showed that the motions of objects on Earth and of celestial bodies are governed by the same set of natural laws, by demonstrating the consistency between Kepler's laws of planetary motion and his theory of gravitation; thus removing the last doubts about heliocentrism and advancing the Scientific Revolution.

Newton built the first practical reflecting telescope[7] and developed a theory of colour based on the observation that a prism decomposes white light into the many colours that form the visible spectrum. He also formulated an empirical law of cooling and studied the speed of sound.

In mathematics, Newton shares the credit with Gottfried Leibniz for the development of differential and integral calculus. He also demonstrated the generalised binomial theorem, developed Newton's method for approximating the roots of a function, and contributed to the study of power series.

Isaac Newton achievements and contribution to knowledge is still the basis of most scientific advancement today. But the religion your Jesus founded has only tried to hold back knowledge. On balance, religion has caused more harm to mankind than good. It is time real heroes of civilisation like isaac newton, Gallileo, Darwin, Enstien etc are celebrated, rather than some others I know in whose name were wars fought, crusades, inquisitions, etc took place. The darkest parts of our civilisation always have religion as the basis. Nobody is threatened for not believing Newtons law of motion or of gravity or calculus, yet we are still enjoying the benefits today.

mabell:

When i saw this thread, at first, what came to mind was "run along poster" but i realized something
Yes, Isaac Newton can be celebrated as a great man but there is a greater one that ever and will ever walk the face of this earth
He is the Alpha and Omega
The one who owns tomorrow
The I Am that I Am
The greatest
The Rose of Sharon
The reason why i live
The one who has made me who i am today
The one that owns the universe
The list goes on and on and on and ons
You are the best Sir

I will always celebrate you Jesu

Today, December 25th, we celebrate the birthday of a great man!
One of the greatest men that ever walked on this planet! Since he walked this earth, the world has never been the same!
He opened the eyes of mankind to the basic laws that govern this world, which we must obey whether we like it or not. Whether we believe it or not! The laws apply to both the living, the dead and non-living things alike without prejudice.
As the laws were in the beginning, they are now, and forever they shall be, world without end Amen!!!!!!!
Please let’s celebrate with fanfare and carols, not the birthday of the one you may think I am referring to.
Let’s celebrate the birthday of Sir Isaac Newton.!!!