₦airaland Forum

Zedric:
If this "just" God was so just, why would he allow the abundance of religions and then say if we follow their doctrine, we have to burn in a lake of fire? Common, why can't he just make it 1 religion? Or does Ur God like practical jokes?

Do you really know what it means by God being "Just"? Pls read the article below for more understanding. A submission made by torchwave in a thread that i opened sometime ago.

torchwave:
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It is logical to ask that. Why then did God create Lucifer if He knew Lucifer would sin? Why display His wrath concerning something He would have easily avoided? Similarly, we ask why God created Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Osama Bin Laden and other notable evil figures that have gone down into the pages of history. Surely God would have spared the world of the pain and incalculable loss their existence inflicted on the world by not creating them along with numerous others of the same evil tendency, known or unknown. Why on earth does God let evil people into the world?

This thread was created to discuss the nature of God, His love and His wrath. However, that is not all to the nature of God. Knowing His love and wrath, you must also understand His fairness. God is a just and fair God. He shows no partiality. Knowing His love will make you love Him and be confident of His Fatherly love that doesn't condemn towards you, knowing His wrath will make you aware of the reality of His judgment towards the disobedient, while knowing His fairness is the key to understanding His creation.

His fairness is the reason why He created good and evil, heaven and hell, good and bad, righteousness and sin, light and darkness, holy angels and fallen angels, good men and evil men. It is the ultimate reason why He created and placed the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the same garden of Eden. His fairness is the reason why He makes His rain fall on the just and the unjust as well as making His sun shine on the just and the unjust.

If He created one, He had to be fair to create the other. It is His nature. It wouldn't have been His nature to create one and leave the other non-existent. God would be unjust if He made only the righteous and holy to serve and obey Him being aware of His judgment while sparing the wicked and disobedient.

When you sit and think about the depth of God's fairness, you are filled with nothing but wonder. It is this same fairness that made Him permit the devil to tempt Adam and Eve. It is the same fairness that makes Him listen to and grant the devil his petition if it was made on legal grounds. It is His nature of fairness that makes Him create those who will make heaven and those who will go to hell. His fairness dictates He does for one what He does for another.

When God judges, His judgment is extremely fair and just and righteous. His wrath is fair and just. What He does for the righteous, He does for the sinner. If He punishes the sinner He will also punish the righteous when they sin - very fair. This is why the worst sinner can receive His forgiveness if he repents because God is fair.

He knew that Lucifer would sin, He knew Adam would sin, he knew the carnage and destruction of lives that would result if Hitler and Stalin were born, however, in His fairness He created them.

To know God's love, you must be aware of Him as a loving Father and a just Judge.
We cannot fully know God until we go home to be with Him. However, the little knowledge of God I have is what I share. I stand to be corrected. I don't claim perfect knowledge. I am willing to hear opposing thoughts because that is how we learn.

Slightly EDITED.

annoymous:
its okay to have self doubt. If i put up a thread for the number of christians that are not sure christianity is the way, esp given the history of christianity, the bible etc, im sure NL will crash forever.

As far as Im concerned, putting up a thread about a lebanese (your point is that he's arab, right?) having doubts in his mind about his faith (Islam) doesnt mean zilch

Oga you are wrong. What you will see is christians who are saying they are not sure they live enough holy life to make heaven, not that they are not sure if Christianity is right.

What the Op is saying is different from what the christians are saying pls.

Kei144:
A Lebanese Muslim posted the following on an American forum:

I do everything a good muslim should do, I pray, I fast, I dont drink, I dont do drugs, I dont lie or cheat

But Im afraid when I die it will turn out the Christians or Jews were right, will a Christian or Jewish God still let me enter Heaven if I was a good person?

If the Hindus are right then I dont want to live

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2662623/pg1

http://www.itshidden.eu/proxy/browse.php?u=GRvtjukaiE%2BQjx1B2YhpabM7HsQ5xu7UHGr6PkpoJjzSzs7Lv44CqEfKwxNaE99yIs9MwTrxuA%3D%3D&b=13

For me I don't have a single doubt about my eternity in heaven as a follower of Christ. Likewise other christians.

The doubt expressed by the OP is an indicator that islam cannot be trusted.

Acidosis:
Oh thread for atheists

MizMyColi:
Ihedinobi2

I love you

I think our world is far better because you're in it

and you dont love me?

Yeah i love the guy too.

DavidKissinger:
Phew! In all ramification, Logic always seem to rout 'faith'.

Xcapist, you asked me to employ my reasoning, and if I should oblige, no doubt, I'd easily agree with you. But the Bible told us, faith over sight, eh? Again, that's the issue.

I'll be honest with you now, Despite my faith in Him, I've often had doubt about HIS ways, but what do I, a mere mortal know? And believe me, this is the same phase you are. Deep down in your heart, beneath those walls you're trying so hard to mount, you know HE exists.

Now, let me tell you about my dad, a dad you may relate to too..

My dad is the most perfect person on God's green earth, he's never wrong. No, not once, not ever. He'll never say to you, "Oh son, you were right, I never should have taken the left turn" , if I get 'lucky', He may say "the left turn never appeared the best option anyway". Yeah right, 'left turn' gets the blame, Nope, Not him, that's how perfect my dad is. He's always right. Today he asks me to do this, I do it, falls short. And He bellows, and when I go all, "but dad, the other time, you told m.....", "Shut up!!! Didn't common sense tell you..." Yep, this time it's 'common sense', never him, Perfect dad, I must say.

Why ? May be because if he admits wrong, it may present him as 'weak', rob him a tidbit of his appellation 'all-perfect dad'. And that's not to a large extent.. ideal, I guess.

May be because if he admits wrong, on his account would lay my excuse for being 'bad', "afterall, dad is not all perfect, he does this too." thus, he rather have me strive for perfection.

Dad too, will invariably point to my ills, sometimes punish me too. And do I get maddened by it? Of course, who wouldn't? But in the long run, he's only doing it for my good- try to make me a better person.

Growing up, I started seeing dad's fault too, "No, he's not all-perfect. For Pete's sake! He can easily pass for an hypocrite! " ( I don't mean it, daddy *inserts kiss smiley*)

That's my dad for you. But you know what? Despite his 'flaws', I can't despise him for it. No, never. Yes, I may get mad, but for how long? Dad's still dad, still the most amazing person in my life. I love him so, so much and I'm ever grateful for the huge chunk he has contributed (and still contributing) to my life.

Same way he loves me- same way I KNOW he loves me, in spite of my flaws. I often do think he sees me as 'weak' (let me not go there) but despite this, it doesn't take the love away.

By now, you must have figured what I'm implying. Yes, Xcapist. That's my relationship with HIM. Call me psycho, call me schzophrenic for having an 'imaginary sky daddy'. I don't mind. Honestly, I don't.

And if by 'human standard', He isn't 'perfect', who am I, to 'judge' HIM?


Xcapist, it is okay to try to feel your Maker's pulse, but we should know when to draw the line. You have, like Paul would say, 'worked harder than other apostles'- Myself inclusive. Wait, What if I tell you I've never quite taken the gospel to anyone? What if I tell you I don't even attend any church? And do I feel conscience-smitten about that? No. Am I under way to becoming an atheist too? No. You are Shocked, I believe..

Xcapist, now I appeal, why not retrace your steps? Back to the drawing board?

Nevertheless, if this is the path you've chosen to follow, nothing changes. I respect your decision. And My admiration for you remains unaltered. You remain an inspiration and I'd forever be glad I met you.

This is where I take my bow, Thanks for your time. It was indeed worth the while. And my dear, I've seen miracles happen, no, not the rain nor snow, none of that. I've seen genuine miracles. And with you, I'd hope for one.

once again, Thanks ....for everything.

MAY GOD FORGIVE US ALL..

*hands over baton to Tallesty1*

*exeunts*

Another perspective, i can say.

MizMyColi:
Waow! I'm thrilled.
Thanks

Obviously you are a satanist. Its not suprising that sonoflucifer is pleased with all that you ve written there.

That's a good one.

Dapo777:
Same thing here man,whether you believe it or not we are all going back to oblivion after rottening in the grave.

Whatever you want to believe cannot change what is awaiting us after death. I pray you reconsider your stand than facing a horrible eternity full of unending regrets. You know you will have no excuse to give because you were warned but you chose to reject the warning. May God help you. Amen.

AgentOfAllah:
Lol...classic! Quick question: Have you experienced god "personally and genuinely"? If so, how does it look? Has it got a gender? Did it talk to you?

Obviously what you described in the bold is a non living thing and i ve not come across such a thing in my life so i cant describe it.

The personality i had encounter with is the almighty God who rules over all the earth. The omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent God. Eternity will not be enough to talk about him.To him be all glory, honour, power, dominion forever and ever. AMEN AND AMEN.

Dapo777:
Since you are very close to God,tell God to reveal himself to me by himself If he is not shy. If God isn't bold enough to toast me himself I will not accept his proposal because he has decided to send u

Help me ask Mr God why he is So wicked in OT and considering the fact he said he changeth not and it is easier for heaven and earth to pass than for the word of God to change,So I suppose God is still as wicked as he was in OT. Tell me What he told you once he replies you.

Again when you are serious about having an encounter with God we will know. For now, feel free with whatever that pleases you. We will all leave this world on individual basis and we will be judged individually. Whether you believe it or not doesn't change anything.

Dapo777:
You are the one who needs to show me Where I stated that atheist should not say God doesn't exist Since you are the one accusing me.......
So post my original post and highlight Where I stated that .......or forever be called a LIAR!!!!!

Dapo777:
One thing I have noticed is that Christians,I mean staunch Christians have formed deep emotional attachment with "Yahweh". It's just like When you love someone deeply, no matter What negative thing another person might tell you about your lover,you won't believe it nor want to accept it because of the emotional attachment you have with the person,you would only think the person is jealous.
The same thing applies to Christians,They are emotionally bonded to "Yahweh" so whatever negative thing you say or imply or that you are driving at, would be opposed logically or illogically,because "Yahweh" is So dear to their heart you shouldn't mess with "him/it/her" .

If you want to have a reasonable debate with Christians first make them understand that you do not hate "Yahweh", that you are not against Christianity, that you don't think their belief is silly,you just have to appeal to their emotions first and respect their beliefs.

Saying that God does not exist is it not part of the negative comment to christians or you want to separate it from what you mean by negative comments? Na wa for you.

Dapo777:
I seriously await that personal experience, If I get a personal experience from God then I will convert back to Christianity,and I hope he would give me answers to all the questions I have for him,They are much ooo

Somehow i blame some of our pastors who rather than point people to Christ are making them see Christ through them. Everything about your relationship with God must pass through them (being men of God). Thats why they are competing with the pictures of them and their wives on the bill boards everywhere. While the apostles pointed people to Christ, they point people to themselves as the door to Christ. Its just a pity.

On the other hand i blame you for not taking time to have personal encounter with God aside your pastor's teachings.

When you are sincere about having an encounter with God, you will see that you will.

Dapo777:
Hahahaa,I never said atheist shouldn't say God doesn't exist,you have lied against me,hell awaits you !!!! I only said They should respect their beliefs,Lol is that difficult for u to grasp? Or do u have eye problem?

Hell awaits you, because you have lied against me!!!.

Bro go and read your post again, place it side by side with the one i commented on and see if you did not contradict your submissions.

Dapo777:
Tell me What it is to experience God,am Really interested, can you tell me What experiencing God is? Thank you

Banom was an atheist here for a long time. Those of us who have been here for long knows who banom was. Go and read his conversion story. Nobody preached to him, he didnt speak in tongues, he had an encounter with God and nobody told him that there is God. And after the experience he didnt want to identify with any religion until he was sure. We all supported him to allow God lead him to the right religion. After sometime he became a christian. Nobody preached him into it.

When you have that personal encounter, you will not be deceived again by anybody that there is no God. You will bear the testimony yourself. Forget about what you did in church in the past.

Dapo777:
Yahweh simply doesn't exist,man created Yahweh to give ancient people something They could fear,So at least They would be a little bit of order........

Are you still confused? Do you need more examples?

This is to all the Christians here not just you alone......

Now you see how dubious and dangerous you people can be? In one breath you were advising your fellow deceived atheists on how best to argue and win christians by not telling them that God doesnt exist, In the same breath you are here committing the same thing you advised them against. Now tell me why people shouldnt call your atheistic stand fraudulent and dangerous to follow. Why would any reasonable person believe that your stand is true?

Dapo777:

Is it not speaking it tongues and being pushed by the holy ghost that u call experiencing God? I have experienced God If that is What it means to experience God,

Now its obvious you are actually among those christians that never experienced God. You really dont know what it means to experience God and this was your real problem.

Dapo777:
Chaiii,But to the eyes of these Christians you were never a true believer,and you never had a personal relationship with God and you never knew Why you believed......

The truth is very bitter ......

Those who experienced God personally and genuinely cannot be deceived that there is no God. It is the ones who see God through the eyes of their pastors and churches that have the tendency of being deceived that there is no God.

There is a difference between a christian who slacked back in his/her walk with God yet believes in God and the one who slumps into atheism.

sheunfemix:
Xcapist I dint see ur good night greeting. Guess dinner knocked me out . Dapo777 it is glaring u won't accept whatever answer u are provided and every answer will lead to anoda question. It is @ thiS point I usually hush up. Image123 they are not ready to see or accept the answer.

Sometimes we give them answer just for the sake of other readers who have open hearts to read and digest the message.
As for the likes of Dapo, your answers might be falling in a stony heart.

hifaif: You are very uncivilized. I asked a question. Instead of giving an answer, you asked your own question and ask that I answer yours first. If you want an answer, you answer mine first. If you have lost your manners, I have not lost mine.

Haaa bros na wa for you and your reaction. Na so you dey behave? Simple discussion we are having here is what you want to turn to war of words.

When you are insinuating that Judas was acting God's script you should provide a biblical back up to it and we take it from there. We are talking bible, not what you and i think pls.

Weah96: With responsibility comes choice. No choice is being offered me to believe. This creator must have known before I was created that my brain wouldn't tolerate the fairy tales.

Can a smartphone be responsible for receiving an incoming text? Would you punish a DVD player for playing a DVD?

All humans are created with the ability to believe or disbelieve. Its now left for you to make use of anyone(choice). Whichever one you make use of you face the consequences or gains of it.

Man is much higher than smartphone so the comparison is off the track. Yet a smartphone will act the way it was made. You should act the way you are created. You are created to choose to believe or not to believe.

hifaif: You should answer my question first.

Pls answer my question.

hifaif: I am so sorry to say that you have abandoned your earlier stand. Wasn't it you who said God has planned everything right from the beginning? How can man exercise free will in a predestined world?
.

See how you mix up things. The issue i addressed was about the old and new testament(which was what this OP talked about). Thats where i said that both the old and new were part of God's plan from the beginning. Its not as if God started the new testament plan later on to correct the old.

This has nothing to do with your choice. God did not plan your choice pls. Your choice remain within your powers. Kindly go back to where i wrote the thing you are misrepresenting now and read it again.

PastorAIO: Herein lies the heart of the issue. There is a need, a desperate need, to assume a position of absolute knowledge. Instead of honestly trying to attain the position or at least admitting that it is not possible, we resort instead to sleight of hands and dodgy arguments to support an untenable position.

I've even heard arguments trying to discredit science by saying that scientists are always coming up with new theories and changing their position. Whereas religionists always maintain their position. I don't know how that, the fact that a position is amenable to changing when facts present themselves, makes something less true. If anything it should make it's position stronger than the position that does not consider new facts.

It is simply a matter of intellectual honesty and integrity. God is not something that we can know or grasp. We can try, but if you think that you've pinned God down then you'll be setting yourself up for a shock. Repeated shocks.

There are two parts to this Free Will issue. The Free part, and the Will part.

what do we mean by Free? Are the choices God makes truly free, or are they bound to by his character. ie. are there things that God will typically do and things that he wouldn't do?

Anybody that knows me would tell you that if you were to put chocolate down on one plate, and marzipan on another and tell me to choose one, if they truly know me they will know that I am more likely to choose the marzipan. Knowledge leads to prognosis. If you know me you'll be able to predict my behaviour.

Does God have Character? Likes, dislikes, behavioural patterns, features? If so then his/her choices would be bound to his/her character. that is not totally free. There are things therefore that God just wouldn't/couldn't do.

Then there is the question of who created God's features and characteristics. God himself? ie Self creating. Then what informed his decisions to create himself the way he did? You see how these questions are taking us beyond the levels that our intellect can reach. The honest answer to these questions is 'I don't know'. I don't know why it is so hard for my christian brethren to say these three little words.

Then there is the Will part? If God's Will is absolute then can there by any other Wills in the universe? An absolute Will cannot be thwarted in anyway. Whatever happens must be in accord with this absolute will. If there are other wills, i.e. human will, then that will must necessarily be impotent since the will of God is absolute. Nothing can happen other than what God wills.

However if Human will is not impotent, then God's will cannot be absolute.

Beautiful submission. I agree with you to a large extent.

hifaif: The thing with you Christians is that you never want to humble yourselves by saying you don't really understand somethings. You prefer to head into an argument even though you know you can never make any sense of it.

'

The explanations are very clear but the truth is that you don't understand us because you ve configured your heart not to do so.

hifaif: You said God planned everything right from the beginning and yet said he does not restrict you from following any path. If he has planned that you join BH or ISIS, would the path you decide to take 'freely' not have to eventually conform with God's plans?

If your actions can't exist outside God's plans, then you are not exercise free will. You are just working according to the dictates of God which means that as somebody once said 'you are nothing but a pencil in the hand of God'

Obviously you have a very wrong definition of freewill. Life always offers you with choices and whatever merits or demerits of your choice you bear.

Freewill doesn't wipe away the fact that every choice we make in life has an end result. You are talking as if it is not a general thing in life. The atheist that you are today is by your choice. The career you are in today is by choice, the wife you married today is by choice. Choice is in everything so don't make it look as if its only a religous thing.

Freewill doesn't mean you ll do something and not bear the consequences of it pls.

hifaif: .

Jesus' death was part of God's plans too? Whose script wasJudas following? God's or is own?

Was there a place that the bible said that JUDAS will betray Jesus?

hifaif: I am not mixing up things. You can't tell me that God planned everything right from the beginning and still want me to believe that man has free will.

The plan of God in the creation of man is to create a being that will have higher reasoning than all the other things he created, a being that will be able to choose between good and evil. The best he has done is to warn you of the consequences of your choice and made a way of escape. He is not restricting you to follow any path. I don't know what is not freewill about this.

PastorKun: It's your jerry curled, skin bleaching philandering pastor that is absolutely useless.

You don fall my hand. Oya go sleep.

peteregwu: That was a great and awesome experience. Oh, what a wonderful thing on that day when the Lord Jesus shall appear to them that love him.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Amen and Amen.