₦airaland Forum

SalC: There's nothing to defend here, you guys think Frosbel is wrong for saying he is evolving or is it his thought that is evolving sef which ever one it is. Yet right after that you talked about your church evolving.
If a whole church can evolve why not an individual

Dboy said he wants to know what he is evolving into- atheism or agnoticism. In recent times we have seen frosbel question some biblical statements. If frosbel questions a church practice I don't have problem with it but when he questions the bible, such as the virgin birth of Jesus, the fire that Elijah called from heaven etc then it gives room for worry. When you are evolving pls evolve in the right direction. That's the message.

Candour: I love your honesty alexleo. Your post here is very candid. This was the mentality I had too as a child growing up in deeperlife. We believed only deeperlife and apostolic faith folks were true Christians. In fact my elder sister who had rebelled and had started attending faith foundation church was despised by me as fit only for hell for having the audacity to perm her hair.

Like you opined, the mentality is changing among the new generation but public perception of these 2 churches will be difficult to change. Just as the oldies are rigid with their beliefs, so the public is rigid in their perception.




I see nothing wrong too if Kumuyi decided of his own to restitute whatever. Maybe its the type of restitution or the content that troubled frosbel. We might never know.




Actually, these type of lifestyles slowly become doctrine for members. I remember it took a Tuesday bible study tape by Kumuyi in 1989 or 1990 (cant remember for sure) to help us realise it wasn't a sin for a woman to leave her hair open in public. Folks saw Biodun Kumuyi's lifestyle and converted it to heavenly requirement. In fact when Kumuyi encouraged women to allow their hair get aerated when they're outside church, the auditorium erupted in applause and you could almost touch the relief all the women felt.




Yeah, some branches make it more difficult than others.on the issue of drugs, my MIL former colleague (AF member)almost died when she refused to take drugs to normalise her BP. I even think it was a stroke that brought her to her senses. She believed it was a sin to seek such help.

That said, no single church is perfect (though some are outrightly criminal). We all can only try as long as we are in this body of flesh and as such, church leaders need to learn to allow their members exercise liberty of the spirit to live their lives.

Godbless you once again alexleo for your honesty.

Thanks my beloved brother. I ll still respond to the drug issue.

Syncan: Hmmm, You praised Drummaboy for raising concern that frosbel's thought was "evolving" and not "rooted", yet you come to the defense of a whole church by playing the "evolving" card. I think there's a name for such behaviour, can someone remind me please?


Anyway, make frosbel finish first.

You didn't read and understand what DrummaBoy wrote very well. You ve also not been following frosbel's thread of recent so you can't understand why I commended Dboy. May be you need to go and do a proper follow up of what I mentioned here for u to understand. And you said I'm defending the church? Pls go and read my reply to frosbel again. If you ve been following my posts in this forum you ll know that I ve always believed that no church is perfect and that has been my issue with you people when you claim that Roman Catholic is perfect. I ve also departed from church praising long ago( of course I learnt that from frosbel even tho he is singing some strange songs now). I still commend DrummaBoy and Tgirl4real for speaking out. That's how to be a good friend. When you see your friend acting strangely you speak out. There are other friends of Frosbel who can't speak out even if they find his action strange. That's not it. Mind you I'm also his friend and I commend or condemn his actions as the case may be. Change is inevitable but you must not do it in isolation. Nobody has the monpoly of knowledge so as you discover things you also make room to view contrary opinion and make adjustment where neccessary. This is where frosbel needs to look into as he is evolving or whatever. And this is where you catholics need to look into. You can't know it all alone. Cheers.

frosbel: PART 2
Apostolic church made it very clear that they were the only true church standing or one of the very few left which followed the truth.
.

You are right but that was an individual assumption among old members in those days when we were still growing up but in this our time, people of our generation have done away with such nonsense believe. (Tho its still very annoying when we hear some oldies make such statements in our time). Well, we can't do much to change them totally at this time of their lives since that is the mentality they ve had for decades now. Honestly it annoys me when they say it. It was a hectic task before I could get my parents to do away with such wrong notion.

frosbel: PART 2
In fact , rumour had it Kumuiyi was paying restitution to their church for leaving ( shocking if it was true ).
.

I don't know how true this is but I don't see anything wrong in Kumuyi trying to follow peace with all men(as the scripture instructed) by reaching out to a church he was part of before, especially if they had some frictions before he left. I think there was a time in the scripture that paul had to reconcile with an apostle or so. But I can tell you that the Apostolic Faith has a good relationship with Kumuyi.

frosbel: PART 2
The Apostolic faith church men had to shave their beard and moustache. I noticed jealousy and even anger in certain situations which I don't want to mention to protect privacy of the individuals.
.

This is just perculiar to the church in Nigeria. I think it just has to do with how they want church workers to appear. They just want a clean shave. They are not saying its a sin if you don't shave.

Let me state that most of the things you wrote about the church is perculiar to Nigeria branch and some west african countries too. The oyibo men that started the church are not as rigid as us here. Some other things you wrote are perculiar to our ibadan branch which is one of the most rigid branch. Some branches are much freer than the others depending on the level of exposure of their various leaders.
I ll respond to the other issues you raised in my next post. Thanks.

DrummaBoy: Like no man business... lol!

I am actually concerned for frosbel. The thread where he said his thoughts are evolving scared me. Scriptures told us to be rooted not to be evolving. What's he gong to evolve into next? An atheist or agnostic?

That's I want to see how the story ends. What's his state of devotion now? That's why.

And then a love for good story telling too. And this is one good story telling.

I love you for this. God bless you.

frosbel: I have added Part 4 - section 1 ONLY. I hope to complete this part tomorrow.

https://www.nairaland.com/1842233/pentecostal-experience#25230844

enjoy.

Let me first of all commend you for your good way of writing a story. Its quite interesting to read. I think it might be a gift in you which you have not dicovered yet or you are dicovering lately. I enjoyed your writing skill. Cheers. I will make some update on what you wrote about Apostolic Faith church. I believe you simply wrote what you experienced when you were there and not that you are trying to drag them to the mud(I hope I'm right tho) and its based on this that I'm replying and that's why I called it an update. Some of the things you mentioned are no more in practice today that's why Its good to put records straight. I'm not interested in defending them yet it won't be fair of me if I don't give an update. Thanks.

blueto: thankGOD!! I hope all the
atheistic will find
this topic and find God and trust
in Him and get saved! I used to
think God loved me out of a
sense of duty because He is such a holy and good God.

I have a long way to go, but loving the atheists in Christ and
ministering to them is one of my
missions whether they like it or
not. Apart from the supernatural
outstanding superiority of the
teachings of Christianity, I found that Christianity is true because
there is no atheist whose
language is clean. Atheists hate
Christianity and the Chrstianity
must be true if they hate it so
much. Thank God for His love. Thank God for Jesus, the Savior
He sent into the world.

Please, help me move this to frontpage @ Oga Seun , or Mukina2 or Semid4life or Mynd44 . . Thank You

Thanks dear and God bless you. God is working in some of these atheists and bringing them back to him. Some of them both whites and blacks are personal friends who are wonderful christians today. Banom is a member in this nairaland and an atheist but God turned him around a few years back. Today he is still waxing strong in the Lord. Let's keep praying for them.

Scyllapatron: This is exactly what I, personally, am going through at present. After many years of being a staunch atheist, with an overwhelming psychological clamber and psychobabble disequilibrium arguing and debating with believers, I have come to a stand-still. I have come to understand the true meaning of life in God. My many years of atheistic cogitation has become my primal reservoir of the true knowledge about God. Though I still think there is something wrong with organized religions of the world.

The main thing to consider is to establish a good relationship with God. As you keep knowing him and keep commiting your ways unto him he will surely guide you are right. Looking at religious organisations is not the main thing. I thank God for you my dear. God will help you. Amen.

Tgirl4real: Hello Sir,

Long time o.

Ermm...the last time I checked, you, Obadiah, or Mosthigh did not die for my sins o, Jesus Christ did. So, He is my deliverer.

Jokes aside, what I needed to learn from you, I did then and I am not letting go of it. So, you need not worry about me. I am safe n secure in the hnds of the Most high and I have a sound mind to think rationally and scripturally.

Hope all has been well with you.

Thanks.

1000 likes.

PastorKun: I don't want to derail this thread anymore but I am shocked that despite all your noise, you are not enlightened enough to know that there is a big difference btw the universal church(also called catholic) which started in the first century and the roman catholic church which was institutionalised by constantine in the fourth century AD. If you want to drag this any further open another thread and I would come and expose your ignorance their. Stop derailing this thread.

Truth.
God bless you.

frosbel: Rejoice for the drowning man my 'Christian' friend, that's what they teach you at your cult church.

You see , as long as you keep allowing yourself to be brainwashed , the true light will keep eluding you.

Yea I refuse to be brainwashed by you. Yea I know its painful to you but I don't have any business with your bible study with satan. I will also not keep quiet and allow you to brainwash others.

frosbel: Arrogance par excellence.

Continue to do the devil's work by turning people away from God's kingdom, I wonder what excuse you will have on judgement day.

Hahahahaha.... I understand how drowning men acts and that's what exactly you have done. I knew you will want to hold on to this at least to save your drowning self. I would ve been surprised if you did not do this but thanks for not falling my hand.

Obviously there is nothing arrogant about telling an atheist that I can't reason in his line of belief. Its only a drowning man like you who will want to see it as arrogant. E be like say your heart dey pepper you because I expose your shame constantly. Ohhhh...sorry...I also I told your fellow atheist to keep off since we can't reason same way about scriptural issues.

bolaino: thanks for your explanation, and if I were a normal christian I would agree with you totally, but the truth is I am a Gnostic christian, I don't know if you know this but recently books were discovered that shed more light on the personality of jesus, and I discovered that jesus was a Gnostic, jesus believed in re-incarnation and he believed in a lot of things that the today christians do not believe in, in fact jesus condemned people like paul, paul was an apostate who destroyed the message of jesus, paul was an unforgiving man, he carried his hate from his radical days as a henchman for the pharisees to the churches he created. And the churches of today do not follow the teachings of jesus, the churches we all go to today are places jesus would not visit if he were around, because instead of these churches to spread the greatest message of God, which is love, they sow hate and discord amongs brethren, there is no hell fire my good man, hell fire is a myth created to put fear in the hearts of men, that's why I said I agreed with frosbel to an extent, when we die we go to the grave, I believe christianity is a creation of the false God.

Your choice bro. Thanks dear.

Weah96: Just like a Christian, arrogance masquerading as humility. Both of you have never left this world, yet you're here claiming knowledge of something which has NEVER been observed by any human EVER. If he must die before he can see, how did you see? Are you a special mammal?

You don't believe in God and you don't believe in the bible so your submissions are worthless to the point I made. You can't kick me into making my submissions in line with your belief system. Both of us are two parallel lines that cannot meet. Nothing makes your belief more superior than mine so pls keep off.

Questioning an interpretation giving to a passage of the scripture by a person or church is one thing while questioning what is written in the scripture is another thing. The latter is bad. Its only those who wants to ridicule the scripture that does it. Frosbel be sure you are not guilty of this.

twosquare: Exactly bro!! God bless you.

God bless you too for not giving room to this false teacher.

frosbel: ^^^

You are serving God to avoid Hell not because you love him and it shows in the fruits which you keep manifesting ( Fear, anger , pride , etc ).

All your incoherent and angry rantings above proves nothing. May you begin to develop the ability to rightly divide the word of God and stop following white old men in Portland Oregon.

Your usual rants when you are drowning so I'm not bothered. You can keep on ranting for all I care while I keep exposing your fraud. Now let me show how dubious you are in handling the scripture. Below is a portion of a thread you opened. In this thread you believed the words of Jesus and was even trying to use it to discredit the story of Elijah and the fire that fell down in the old testament. Here is it-

frosbel:
"Then the king sent to him a captain of fifty with his fifty. And he went up to him, and behold, he was sitting on the top of the hill. And he said to him, "O man of God, the king says, 'Come down.'" Elijah replied to the captain of fifty, "If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty." Then fire came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty.…" - 2 Kings 1:9-10

"When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?” But He turned and rebuked them, [and said, “You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them.”] And they went on to another village." - Luke 9:54

If we review these two scripture , it appears that in the OT people were free to call down fire from heaven whereas in the NT this was specifically prohibited.

We all know that God does not change, Today, Yesterday or forever and hence I have a few questions :

- Was it God that made the fire to come down from heaven at Elijah's beckoning
-

How come you believed the words of Jesus here whereas in this issue of hell fire/ eternal torment you don't believe the words of that same Jesus? What a fraudulent posture. You believe Jesus where his words suits your interest and disbelieve him where his words don't suit you. It doesn't work that way. If you want to believe Jesus you believe him all through and if you don't want to believe him you leave it entirely. Stop playing pranks bro. It won't do you any good. May God deliver you from this cage of the devil. Amen.

bolaino: hmmmm, I see.

Bro, just as the reality of God's existence is not based on our belief or unbelief, the truth of God's word is also not based on our belief or unbelief. Even if all of us decides to believe that there is no hell fire or eternal torment it doesn't change anything. We all will still die and discover that we believed a lie and by then there will be no room for amendment. You can't say you didn't know because you have seen it in the bible. The best you can do is to accept what Jesus said about hell fire then you follow the escape route God has made for us which is salvation. When you are saved you don't need to bother yourself about hell fire again. All you need to do as a born again is to look unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith as instructed in Hebrews 12:2. Its as simple as that pls. Don't allow the false teachers of no hell fire/eternal torment to deceive you. God help you. Amen.

twosquare: I answered yours....alexeo and alentyno....tell him to answer mine rather than dodge....frosbel wey get brain...anything that doesn't suits...he shouts&discard...hehehehe

Frosbel is playing fraud with the scriptures. While we are presenting him with the words of Jesus about eternal torment he is running from pillar to post seeking for where to hide. When he sees any words of Jesus that suits his selfish interest he will believe, when he sees the one that doesn't suit him he will start playing his pranks. He wants to brainwash people into believing that there's no eternal torment/hell fire and because he has seen that the words of Jesus on this keeps slapping him on the face he started claiming that the catholics slotted in the word hell fire. Yet Jesus used other expressions that I quoted earlier to describe hell fire. We can all see how he has been running from pillar to post just to make his false teachings appear like the truth while we have always pegged our presentations on the words of Jesus only. Over the years this is how he keeps grabbing one silly reason or the other to support his satanic teachings about this issue of eternal torment. And he keeps failing serially. Quite pathetic. Only a FOOL will joke with such a futuristic happening as hell fire/eternal torment after reading the several warnings of Jesus about it in the scripture.

twosquare: Scriptures didn't call of them hell....it was Frosbel that did according to his own interpretation.
And i answered your question unless if you missed it....i said the lower regions of hell which is a prison yard of torment....sinners went there....but the righteous went to the upper regions.

Thanks my brother. We will continue to expose his falsehood.

frosbel: @bolaino, you will do well to take heed and not listen to brain washed fanatics who follow American Churches rather than Jesus. These people have the wicked spirit of the Pharisees , ignore their threats, rantings and ramblings and do your research yourself, God gave you a brain to use it like the Berean Christians.

A good starting place is :

http://bwid.net/studies/mythhell.htm

He will rather do well by not being brainwashed by your worthless teachings produced by your bible study with satan. Of course I don't expect the outcome of such a worthless bible study to be truthful. Continue to wallow in your falsehood.

bolaino: I agree with you on this. But this brings up another question, where does the soul Go after death, The body goes to the grave but where does the soul/spirit go?

Whether you agree with him or not doesn't change anything. Our belief or unbelief of what is in the scriptures doesn't change it. When you leave this world you ll see that you deceived yourself.

Jesus described it as everlasting fire in Mathew 18:8
Mathew 25:41.

Matthew 3:12 desribes it as unquenchable fire.

Mark 3:29 jesus called it eternal damnation.

Matthew 18:9 says hell fire.
Mark 9:47 says hell fire.
Mark 9:48 says its a fire that cannot be qenched.
Again the story of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16:22-31 is NEVER a parable. The scripture NEVER said its a parable.
I ll rather belief the words of Jesus than believe a worthless teachings full of lies by frosbel or any other person here.

mazaje: He was the first person to insult me and I give back in very equal measure. . .No apologies. . .

. Yeah I understand how bad one feels when insulted. May be you can ignore him and go back to your usual style.

Joshthefirst: yes. He has no religious affiliation. I didn't want to start an argument with him.

The term "christian God" is an invention of the atheists here in nairaland. We call him Almighty God, Jehova, yaweh etc. So you don't need to worry your head about it. Frosbel is a frustrated man. He has met frustrations in carrying out his false teachings. The reply he gave is different from what you mean.

mazaje: Shut up you myth believing pig. . .

I never knew you as someone that abuses people. Is it that I didn't know or that you ve changed? What I know of you is that you just make your point and keep moving till when you see another reason to make another point.

@frosbel,
Again your frustration in propagating your falsehood has reared its ugly head here. Obviously the major reason you brought this up is as a result of your failure to prove that there is no eternal torment/hell fire. Back in those days you quoted bible indiscriminately and misapplied it here and there just to deceive your readers that there is no hell fire/everlasting fire. Now the words of Jesus about it are so glaring and it punctures your defence and the next thing you ve switched on to is to tell another big lies that it is the Roman catholic church that slot it in the bible. Were you there when they did it? Did you do it with them? False accuser. There are things that catholics are practicing that are not in the bible, so why didn't they slot those ones in? Where did you see the word trinity in the bible that you are accusing catholics of sloting in? Jesus spoke about hell fire in various expressions. At some point he described it as everlasting fire, unquenchable fire, fire that cannot be quenched, eternal torment etc. It wasn't only hell fire that was used so carry your falsehood and clear from the way. Now you ve shown where the different gospel writers had errors in their report, yet their descriptions about hell fire remains the same- (a place of terrible and everlasting suffering). Your pranks cannot work. For those of us who have been arguing with you on this issues over the years we can't allow your false teachings to prosper. Keep having a field day in your bible study with satan as he continues to deceive you. It is easier to deceive people that an event that happened in the past as recorded in the bible never happened but when it has to do with a futuristic event such as hell fire/eternal torment, only fools will risk their dear lives to believe your falsehood. What makes your teaching authentic and the ones recorded in the bible false? Where you there when Jesus spoke about hell fire? Keep your deceit to yourself bro.

paulcr7: A this is just a secondary application of the sabbath and secondary application does nt refute primary application.I can also use this method to say that 'thou shall nt commit adultery' means we should nt go away from Christ which is a secondary way God applies it in his relationship with Israel but does that mean dat christians can sleep around?no. We can apply the sabbath rest to our justification by faith but it does nt cancel its original meaning.However,we dont do it to be saved but out of love for Christ(john14:15) and by d grace of his saving power.(in my ref to sabbath,i mean the seventhday sabbath of Gen 2)

Bro your analogy is a lie. Jesus condemned adultery in the new testament and even raised the bar by saying that if you look at a woman lustfully you have coommitted it. In some other places in the new testament adultery was mentioned as sin(e.g. Galatiands 5:19) but in the case of sabbath, the new testament said it clearly that we shouldn't allow anyone judge us concerning the sabbath day or any holy day. We can't bow to your understanding and doctrine. We ll take the bible stand. You are just blindly promoting what you were taught in church.

Ubenedictus: the bible is a catholic book exactly like canon law and the vatican ii documents!

We are not looking for books to claim, you can't steal what is already yours. The bible is a catholic book.

Lies upon lies.

DrummaBoy: [size=20pt] PROPOSED PRESENTERS AT GRACE CONVENTION 2014[/size]

1. Yooguyz

2. Ihedinobi2

3. MrAnony1

4. PastorOluT

5. Alwaystrue

6. BabaGnoni

7. trustman

8. MarkMiwerds

9. ... pending

I vote for striktlymi as number 9.

striktlymi: Sacred scriptures go beyond just being a collection of books written by men through the inspiration of the Spirit. Sacred scriptures contains God's word which is both Alive and Active. God's word is the author of creation and yes, it is Jesus.

Truth and nothing but the truth. God bless you for this.

frosbel: You have been reported to the moderators.

I have no problem with you contributing against or exposing 'errors' in my articles , but when you start attacking individuals in your characteristic manner of angerism, it derails the purpose of the article in the first place..

Again, may I ask you to start acting mature when you are debating for or against the points I or anyone else makes in my articles, I think that is what Christ likeness is all about.

Thanks,

Speaking against your falsehood is what you call attack? Everything is attack for you once someone exposes your falsehood. You are not serious. Pls feel free to report me. I couldn't be bothered anyway. I won't allow your falsehood go unfired.

frosbel: okay stop trolling now, if you dont have anything to contribute to an article stay out and act mature like many younger brethren here , stop trolling and derailing except of course you want a ban.

Trolling? Ban? You aint serious. You want me to allow your falsehood to be contaminating innocent souls? Not possible. This is a public forum and I have every right to make my contributions. And my contribution is to stop the spread of your falsehood to unsuspecting young brethren. I won't stop eexposing you bro. Get it straight.