₦airaland Forum

Apatheist: I agree with you; science will soon prove the existence of Santa Claus
Then our Lord, The Flying Spaghetti Monster.

You definitely dont have a point thats why you are engaging some distractions. I cant be a party to your distractions. Its either you believe that science and discoveries are infinite and you leave it at that or you dont believe it. Be honest to yourself atleast.

Apatheist: It's all the same.
Afterlife is a concept of religion, not science.
I don't believe in any God, I don't therefore see how the "afterlife" affects me.

It doesnt matter whether you believe in God. Some of the things that science proved today were discovered or talked about yesterday.

RayMcBlue: The concept of the afterlife is a "superstition" when you apply the cold hard logic of science. After you had examined, calculated, and separated your thesis, the conclusion that the notion is a mere fabrication is inevitable.

In other words, the concept cannot be scientifically proven. In fact, that in itself is a discovery. Therefore, it's conclusive... until it can be proven otherwise. The laws of infinity weren't affected, at all.

You still dont get it. What science cannot prove today, it can prove tomorrow. Except you are not being honest that science is infinite.

koboko67: Abeg make una nor dey add south south. We get sense pass this ones wey dey attach to us by force. Even people from SS nor support Jonathan reach SE clowns

Shut up. Where is your sense? In selling your lands to us.

Where is your sense? In asking government to pay you "marching ground fee when they want to repair your bad road for you(such a stu.pid mentality).

Where is your sense? Your young ones rather than go to school or find a better thing to do, they find one company they will block their gate and demand money from them after which they use it to go and drink and chase women here and there(silly sense). When the money has finished they go to another company and block their gate again.

Where is your sense? our properties that you people forcefully took from us in the name of abandoned properties in PH we have bought all of them back and even more. Now you dont even have land to bury your fathers and mothers. You now bury them inside your sitting room.(useless sense).
What else? Can you rate yourself with the SE in education and other achievement? Who cares about attachment to you. Mind you, if you remove the vote of SE Jonathan wouldnt have been on that seat.

koboko67: Thrash..in the professional world, no matter how akward an accusation may look. You dont use sentiments to sweep it under the carpet. There must be an investigation. If he worked with DSS or not is not a point for the allegation to be swept under the carpet. Mr Davis has challenged them to go to court....we shall see who has the balls amongst the 2 accused.

chukwudi44: If mr Davies wants to be taken seriously then let I'm produce eveidence,challenging people to go to court is no evidence

^^^ Again If Mr Davies is honest why didnt he name the (former) CBN official? Why hide that name and mention this other two?

mazaje: The afterlife is just a human idea and creation that is why there are many different versions of it. . . Some have moved from the after life to reincarnation. . All human ideas and conceptions. . . This is the only life we have and we know. . .any other thing is a lie and pure fantasy and fiction. . .

No friend. You ve not died before so you can't say for sure. Discoveries and science have not ended so you can't conclude yet.

Apatheist: I fail to see how a"discovery" can be made by a dead person with no consciousness.


Pascal's Wager, seriously?
Can't you guys come up with something new?
https://dailyatheistquote.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/pascals-wager.jpg
What if Ganesh is the right god? What will you do?
https://rantingnewyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/8OchvM7.jpg
What if it's Amon?

Again you are not being honest. Forget about Paschal Wager and religion(don't divert issues). We are talking about discovery and sciennce which is infinite. You can't draw conclusion yet on this issue.

RayMcBlue: Think back to when you were a kid and you realized that Santa was imaginary. As soon as you knew it, it was obvious. Reindeer cannot fly. A man cannot slide down chimneys. There is no way for one little sleigh to carry all the toys for all the kids in the world. Etc. It is obvious that Santa is make believe. That's discovery.

In the same way, it is obvious that human beings are big,
walking chemical reactions. When the chemical reactions cease, you die. That is the end of it. No afterlife.

You are not being honest. You said that science and discovery are infinite, and here you are drawing conclusion. You still can't be sure. It is not yet over until it is over. Since discovery and science are not yet over then you can't say for sure.

Apatheist: Of course not!
Science is ever-changing, and if we discover we were wrong about something we make amends.

And what if by the time the discovery is made you are already dead and facing the discovery which you could have avoided in life here if you had given it a deeper thought and taken some preventive measures?

And what if the discovery is such a horrible one which you cannot do anything about it by then?

RayMcBlue: So? "Discovery" is infinite... and so is science.

So you can't say for sure that there's no afterlife.

Olusanya333: I will ask u only one question.
When u give your life to Jesus,which is retained your old nature or New nature(christ')?

Let me ask you this-

Since God is all-knowing, did he know that lucifer will turn himself(according to you) to satan and that this will have dangerous consequences on man/humanity? If he knew, why then did he create him?

Apatheist: Science, man.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness_after_death

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_correlates_of_consciousness
Premise 1: The brain causes consciousness
Premise 2: In the event of death the brain "dies" (stops working)
Corollary: In the event of death consciousness ceases.

And i still ask, has science ended discoveries? No. So you still cant be sure.

RayMcBlue: The beauty of science is that it never assumes. It doesn't invent notions out of thing air. It examines, calculates, separates and then proposes. It's borne of "cold hard logic."

Has science ended discoveries? No. You still cant be so sure because science keeps discovering and rediscovering. What if later in life they make a new discovery that will cancel the one you are holding on to now? What if you are dead by then and you cant do anything about it than to face the discovery? What if what you ll face then will be so horrible and could ve been averted if you had given a deeper thought to this issue now?

Liveair: Just wondering a bit.
If there is a God who called everything into existence and is said to be Omnipotent, then He can do EVERYTHING.
This means He can create and uncreate (destroy) ALL.

Question;
If God is OmniPotent, can He put Himself out of existence?

Your answer and thoughts.

Malachi 3;6. I am the Lord, i change not.

This simply means that God cannot even change himself talk more of putting himself out of existence. God can do anything when its about his creation but when it is about himself then he cannot do anything to change himself from who he is.

RayMcBlue: The "miracle of life" is no miracle -- it is a big chemical reaction. When those reactions stop, the cell is dead.

The human body is nothing but a set of chemical reactions. The chemical reactions powering a human life are no different from the reactions powering the life of a bacterium, a mosquito, a mouse, a dog or a chimp. When a human being dies, the chemical reactions stop. Finis.

There is no "energy" or "soul" mixed in with the chemicals, just like there is no soul in a bacterium, a mosquito, a mouse, a dog or a chimp. Why would there be an afterlife for the chemicals that make up a human body?

The whole notion of your energy transforming when you die is completely imaginary. The concept of a "soul" has been invented by religion because many people have trouble facing their own mortality. It makes people feel better, but the concept is a complete fabrication. Don't mix science with delusions, please, both have absolutely nothing in common.

And this is also your own invention because you havent died before to be so sure of what you are saying. NO PROOF(as you people will always say). Before the discovery of planets, people then never knew such things existed.

Apatheist: So do we all.
Your answer is in your question:

That's pretty much what happens.
The same way it was before you were born, that's how it'll be when you die.

You can leave your mark in the world, like the people who you mentioned did-- Jaja of Opobo and Lugard.

On the bold i ask- have you died before to be so sure?

CANTICLES: The Greek Word That Apear In Matthew 5:22, 29, 30 ; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33 ; Mark 9:43,45,47; Luke 12:5; James 3:6 Is "Gehenn'a" Wich Means Valley Of Hinnom , Dats Y D Greek Septuagint Reads " Gehenna" In Joshua 18:16 Where Valley Of Hinnom Appears ! Its A Mass Graveyard ( Jer 7:32) And Also A Place Where Dead Bodies Of Criminals And Dead Animals Are Thrown Into. A Fire Is Put In Dis Valley To Burn All Dis Dead Bodies , If D Body Lands At D Edge Of Dis Fire It Decompose And Produce Maggots ... But If It Lands Inside It , IT IS CONSUMED ! JESUS use "gehenna " to picture everlasting destruction NOT Everlastin torment ! No live beings or conscious beings are thrown into gehenna , ITS DEAD UNCONSCIOUS CREATURES ( JER 7:32) .. Gehenna is Not an unseen place of torments

You are a false teacher.

perry2020: Gud mawnin every1,ur opinion is highly needed on this topic,alot of single ladies who re in a relationship presently or not often get confused on either to pray for their boyfrnd they re dating presently or their future husband( to be on d safer side).
Eg. oh lord bless my boyfriend or future husband(which do u pray for and y)
For those who don't pray who do u advice them to pray for?

God doesnt know boyfriend and girlfriend stuff. That thing is a tool which the enemy has been using to lead many people into fornication so God has no hand in it. Marriage is an institution made by God so thats the one he can come into.

It is very good to pray for your future husband. Praying for your future husband means you are not having anybody in mind (except you ve both agreed to marry). If not, then you just pray the prayer without having anybody in mind and God who knows the right person that will marry you will answer your prayers in his life. But if you are just eyeing one brother and be assuming in your mind that he is going to be your future husband, you will be greatly wounded if he doesnt marry you after all your prayers.

You need to pray for your future husband because-

1. The man may be having career difficulties which in turn will make him to be reluctant about going into marriage( and that means a delay for you or a decision that can lead you to the wrong man). Your prayer can help give him a breakthrough.

2. Distractions from other ladies around him can bring confusion and he makes a wrong choice when you are supposed to be his right choice. Your prayer can clear this distractions and confusion away.

3. You also need to pray that God in his mercy and divine intervention pilots him to locate you. Even if he is in Abuja and you are in Abia, when the divine intervention takes place something will bring the two of you together and you get talking and then marriage plan begins after.

4. You also need to pray for him so that any member of his family will not become a tool of distraction to him by giving him a guide that will lead him to the wrong person.

5. You pray that God should help him in his areas of short comings and endow him with qualities that will make both of you have a wonderful married life.

6. Pray for good health for him (including being sexually healthy).

As you are praying for him you also pray for yourself.

1. That God should make you fit to be a good wife and endow you with qualities that will make wonderful marriage for both of you.

2. That God should guide you so that you dont mistake the wrong person as the right man.

3. That God should uproot any character or trait in you that will scare him away from you.

4. That God should bless your career. ( marriage without money is a difficult terrain). By this i dont mean he must be rich but let the both of you have something doing so that some income will be flowing.

5. Pray for good health too.

moreeni: YESssssssss! I WILL marry you

Today the guy is kneeling down to propose, after the wedding na the woman go dey kneel down everyday to beg make him no dey cheat on her. Dont be carried away sisi.

SlyIg: Man and woman ...

Deceiving themselves since the days of Adam and Eve...

The best comment.

They don't want to learn their lessons. The deceit continues.

To my good friends KAY17 and Mazaje, I am not arguing whether God/the creator exist or not. Its not up for argument for me because I am very sure he exists. What i usually do is to know people's views about him (I mean for those who believe in him).

But sometimes i like the way you people structure your comments too. Cheers.

macof: signal problem, I didn't know it went until later

Wat makes air not "supernatural". And What makes anything considered supernatural??

Super natural is beyond the natural.

Oya answer my own questions. Are you and atheist? If you are not then give me your own concept of the creator. Let's see if I may learn one or two things from there. Over to you. Cheers.

macof: it is hypocrisy to say "have a relationship with God outside religion" when christianity is the so called relationship you talking about

by God u probably mean the Christian God, cus I assume Zeus is not a God to you.
...on this ground, it's impossible to encounter Jehovah without having Christian doctrines in your head..this is what I call delusion after faith

When I talked about the creator in my earlier posts I did mention that christians call him God, muslim call him Allah etc. And I said we understand him differently and relate with him differently but one has to be sure he is following the true path. Relating with him is still an individual thing. Yes I am a christian but my relationship with God Is not exactly the same way with the next christian sitting by my side in my church. Not exactly the same with that of my pastor etc.

Church or religion or reading books may give you a background info but its still left for you to make your personal findings about how you can relate with your creator. Its still an individual thing. When I pray for myself, I pray for other churches,for muslims and pagans. I pray for atheists and co.

Hypocrisy is everywhere. When atheists kills, steals,cheats etc. They also pretend they never did.

Its not Isolated to religion alone. Wherever there is law(either in relgion or in the secular world) there is bound to be hypocrisy here and there.

mikedaniel76gmailcom: The OP is so on point, and this can be so discouragin. Imagine a sista who speaks in wild tongue in church beeen the most troublesom in ha neborhood. Religion this days is so pissed.

Your relationship with God should not be guided by people's behaviour. Its a personal thing bro.

Moreover, your duty as a christian to a fallen brethren is to help him in love to rise again through prayer and words of encouragement. It is in the bible and for it to be in the bible means that the possibility of a brother falling is not ruled out in christianity.

Tallesty1: very fuuny, dunno why ppl automaticaly conclude that any person who reveals the truth about some priest is a protestant. I'm catholic bro. A die-hard catholic.

Thanks for saying the truth. It doesn't mean that other churches are free but the OP directed this on catholic priests. There are other similar threads directed at pastors.

People shouldn't be seeing these threads as hate for catholic or pastors. They are just stating the obvious.

However we also need to be praying for these priests and pastors with love in our hearts that God should help them out. Its not enough to do only the talking. Prayer has a role to play too.

macof: Quick question...is God more wind than
human??
Since by your explanation, he seems to share
more with air than men

You played wayo here you know. .
This wasn't the original post you made earlier. You don adjust am bros. .

God or the creator(whichever one you choose to refer him) is not mortal and physical. He is super natural, a spiritl and invisible to the natural eyes. I can't tell his shape. I just used air to explain his invisible nature. Not that he is like air. Air is not supernatural, air is not a spirit being.

macof: selling his religion in the guise of "you don't have to follow religion"

You keep talking of having a relationship with God outside religion when your entire God ideas are based on religion
Such hypocrisy

I started this discussion without attaching it to my relgion. My take is still the bible account. You and I know that I'm a christian so what's the hypochricy there? But I wanted to discuss the creator across board but he kept pushing the question about God and the bible to me and of course I can't deny what I ve proved. Yet I still believe some people encountered God outside relgion. I ve seen such testimonies.

Kay17: @alexleo
Your problem begins with an assumption. A grand assumption that Order is a product of the mind. When the assumption is seen in its true light, it looks ridiculous. And to even say order is the natural expectation and product of the mind even places order above the mind. Do you understand me?

No friend. I've proved God. Likewise billions of others. The truth is that creation has a source. There's no assumption about it. When I started this discussion I limited it to the source of creation(the creator). I didn't particularise it to christianity. It was him that pushed the discussion to christianity and I had to flow in that line. Cheers.

Apatheist: Psalm 82:6 says otherwise: "I say, 'You are gods"

Yes it called us gods and the same psalm 82 8 called him God. So why wasn't God used for us and him? Genesis 1 and all the places he was mentioned in the bible called him God.

Again let me quote the whole of the verse you quoted and the next verse below

I say, ‘You are gods;
    you are all children of the Most High.
7 But you will die like mere mortals
    and fall like every other ruler.’”

The difference is still there in verse 7. We ll die like mere mortals.

Apatheist: So the "made in his image" stuff is not physical but mental?
How come then he is supposedly good, while we are evil?
And omnipotent, etc?

I said that made in his own image is not about (physical) shape or appearance.

He didn't create us sinful originally I repeat. Even at that he still made provision for us to be saved from sin.

He is omnnipotent because he is God. We are not. And that's part of the differences I told you. This sstill shows you that we are not hundred percent like him.

Apatheist: So o was right and it was intentional?

Yes it was intentional. He is a creator and he has his concept for all his creations.

Apatheist: He put sadism in humans

Again read about the fall of man in Genesis. You are just running round. I'm not struggling to convince you. We are just discussing our belief and views. so chill bro.

Apatheist: Reason?

Because he is the creator. He is in charge and has his concepts for each of his creations like I earlier said.

Apatheist: And the sin originally was created by your god. [Isaiah 45:7]

Evil and sin are not really the same though they are in some ways connected. Death might be evil to some people but it is not sin. Same thing with poverty, sickness,Natural disaster etc. However the discussion about God and sin in relation to the fall off lucifer and man is a topic we can discuss on its own when you are ready.

Apatheist: Till your God appeased himself by sending himself in human form to be killed by himself.

Jesus is the son of God. In john 3:17 God said- this is my beloved son in whom I'm well pleased. Jesus always refered to God as his father.

Apatheist: Billions of others do not feel any creator.

That's their choice. It doesn't change anything.

Apatheist: Billions more feel other creators, will you say that they ate wrong and your creator is the true one?

I ve told you We are talking about the source of creation(the creator). That's a common factor for us who believe there is a creator. The difference lies in our various unnderstanding and perception of him. The difference does not lie in the creator himself. Don't you get it?

The issue of claims of who is right and who is wrong about him is normal about human. Even you as an atheist is also claiming that your own path is the right one so its not as if the claims of right and wrong is restricted to religion its general.

One thing is sure, there are people who are on the right track. Some of them may not even be members of any denomination or religion per se but within them as individuals, they are enjoying wonderfull fellowship with the creator. That's why I said you should make some personal findings about the creator. Don't be lazy friend. .

Apatheist: It would be asinine to say these things are the same.
Yahweh is not Allah, Bacchus is not Vishnu, Zeus is not Astarte. The gods are different, some are male, some female others hermaphrodite. Some are humans, others are animals. Is Sango the same as Amadioha? Allah forbids pork, Zeus doesn't, are they the same person? Yahweh forbids wine, Bacchus doesn't, are they the same person?
.

I ve given you answer to this up but let me also add that some of these "traditional gods" are not seen as creators by their worshipers. Some say that theirs is "god of protection" some say theirs is "god of war" some say theirs is "god of revenge" etc.

Here wa are talking about the source of creation(the creator). And I said that the difference does not lie in him but in our understanding of him.

One thing can be described differently by different people. That's normal about human.

Apatheist: If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough-- Albert Einstein..

Yes God is infinite, too powerful, too great and too mysterious that we cannot understand him well enough with our limited nature that's why we can't explain him well enough.

Apatheist: Which means we should be just like him. You still haven't told me why we're not invisible

He didn't create Gods. What he created is man so you can't be exactly like him. You are not God, you are man. He didn't say " let us create Gods". He said let us create man.

Genesis 3:22

2 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Now this shows you that when God talked about creating man in his image he was talking about character/attributes(of which knowing good and evil is one of his attributes). He wasn't talking about shape.

This shows also that he didn't create man hundred percent like him. You can see he didn't want man to eat from the tree of life and live forever(another attribute of him which he didn't put in us human).
Again e didn't originally put the knowledge of good and evil(like him) In man.
That's why I told you earlier that there are differences and limitations.

Apatheist: .
Other characteristics: Anger, murder, deceit, slave master, lying, etc.
Yes, man has these characteristics because we're in God's image.
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, no?
.

You are just picking and choosing and twisting the bible to suit you. Since you asked me questions based on biblical account then you should be truthful about it.

When God created man( Adam), sin(which are some of the things you mentioned up there) wasn't part of him. You know the bible account of how man in excercising his freewill chose sin. Man wasn't originally created with sin.
Some other things happening to man came as a result of the curse God placed on man and the earth.