₦airaland Forum

patches689:
I know exactly what RHA is

I want to know what you think "spaced RHA" is

I have given you a clue as to what it is - you said it yourself

Production estimates are ranging from 172 to 224 or even 250.
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/South_Africa/Olifant_MkI.php

The glacis plate and nose of the hull have been upgraded with the addition of passive armour and the turret has been fitted with stand-off armour.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/olifant/

Anyway, Olifant Mk1B has ceramic and reactive armor. up to 250 were built.

There is nothing to discuss here - I am just watching you dig your hole deeper and deeper

Nope, you are the one sunk in a hole

I am the one who educated you about tank armour types, You NEVER knew the differences.

That's why you keep posting T-72 tank with RHA VS M1A1 Abrams tanks with composite armour, then you conclude the T-72 performed badly.

LOL....you pitched RHA against Composite armour, they belong to different generations wide apart, decades apart !

Why don't you pitch your Olifant MK 1A against same M1A1 Abrams tanks in battle and lets see how your Olifant performs when blasted !

Sources say SANDF has ONLY 44 units Olifant Mk. 1B and among the 44, some 26 selected for MK. 2 upgrade. TOTAL = 44 .

Show us a source that says SANDF has 224 to 250 units of Olifant tanks with COMPOSITE armour....I mean composite !

Show us now
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africaken:
the term ISTAR is Intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition, and reconnaissance ATR-42 Surveyor can't [b]target acquisition[/b]what it is capable of is Intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance ,to target acquisition your FLIR pod has to target designate .which ATR-42 Surveyor pod's can't

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeQlkvzLGY4

Target Acquisition Definition :

"The detection, identification, and location of a target in sufficient detail to permit the effective employment of weapons."

http://www.militaryfactory.com/dictionary/military-terms-defined.asp?term_id=5311

Photo below shows NAF ATR-42 detecting, identifying, and displaying precise GPS location of an enemy land combat vehicle in real war.

Dude, so it's not about your false information on old FLIR again? You said ATR-42 FLIR of year 2008 is old, mixed up COMINT antennae with ELINT dome....Now its target it cannot acquire.

Stop delving into military stuff you know nothing about, stcik to your lovely photos, major on what you are good at.

Thank you sir.

PHOTO : NAF ATR-42 SURVEYOR DOING TARGET ACQUISITION IN COMBAT
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patches689:
dude, whatever, I dont care anymore

Stop rubbishing other countries equipment. Keep your vendetta and envy off this thread.

patches689:
Post it

We have asked many many times

This thread is not a debate venue for throwing weblinks around in argument.

patches689:
MPA platform

Primary MPA + Primary ELINT ISTAR + Secondary AWACS multi-role platform.

Hero of ground battles against Boko Haram, leading battlefield surveillance, command and control. War history proves that to the whole world
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patches689:
Because the capabilities you post do not exist

All 20 capabilities and info do not exist for ATR-42 Surveryor?

jln115:
Jap sorry mate.
It's a PDF and I can't seem to copy the weblink on my phone, I'll post it tomorrow when I have my laptop...anyway you can try to get the PDF file on www.atraircraft.com not sure if it will work though.

There is nothing there that shows ATR-42 radar range and tracking specs. Quote the data if you have it, and tell us what page on that PDF
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patches689:
What do you think spaced RHA is?

You know NOTHING about tanks armour types

RHA is :

Rolled

Homogenous

Armour.

All materials are the same. Some tanks space them apart, and air is in between the steel to reduce impact of projectiles.

RHA is homogenous armour of same material, Composite is heterogenous armour of assorted materials mixed/enmeshed.

Composite armour does not use empty spaces, it fills up the space with assorted materials, like ceramics, glass, plastics.

Your source says NOTHING about composite materials, it says HOMOGENOUS materials of one type only.....old school armour

"It entered service with South African National Defense Forces in 1991. About 44 vehicles were upgraded to the Mk.1B standard."

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/olifant_mk1b.htm

# 44 tanks with composite armour ONLY 44
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patches689:
Olifant Mark IB Main Battle Tank in beige livery. Production estimates are ranging from 172 to 224 or even 250.
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/South_Africa/Olifant_MkI.php

Bwahahaahahaaa

Suicide source, it says :

"Olifant MK. 1B

Armour - Spaced RHA. No data available

Total Production 224"

Your own source says NOTHING about composite armour, it says you have 224 Olifants with RHA old school armour

Show us where it says 224 units with composite armour.....Oh no you cannot, you have NO PROOF, because they don't exist !

# 44 units only
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patches689:
[size=16pt]#EXPOSED[/size]

# 44 tanks ONLY....EXPOSED
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jln115:
Jap 44 upgraded in 1991.. .production of the mk1b continued threw out the nineties.

You cleverly left out that part in your post you fvcking fraud.

Nope, the source says :

"It entered service with South African National Defense Forces in 1991. About 44 vehicles were upgraded to the Mk.1B standard."

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/olifant_mk1b.htm

All that was ever upgraded is 44 units total, date of completing the upgrade is irrelevant, you have ONLY 44, finish !

LIAR LAIR PANTS ON FIRE
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patches689:
Still bragging about scaring off a supply ship?

Is this how pathetic your military is... that you brag about such things?

10 anti-aircraft guns available, yet SAS Drakensberg is afraid of one singe NAF Alpha jet that has no single guided weapon.

Boko Haram with 2 anti-aircraft guns and no single radar still fight back at NAF Alpha jet, why did South African navy run away from Nigerian air force when you have 20 times better anti-aircraft defences and radar for early warning than Boko Haram ?

Means Boko Haram is superior to SANDF

Sure, at that base in Sudan, if it was Boko Haram instead of SANDF, there will be no decision to surrender without a fight.

I thought your Col. Eben Barlow war master has put Lions courage inside all SANDF men

All that the world can see is a Chicken Republic Of South Africa
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FighterPilot:
SOME OF THE SA MADE ARMOURED VEHICLES.

Why not go and show them to Sudan instead of surrendering to Toyota drivers ?
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Thiza:
PRODUCTS MADE BY SWEAT AND BLOOD OF SOUTH AFRICANS .....NOT PROUDLY PAKISTAN...CHINA OR WHATEVER

Pakistan and China produce tanks, submarines, and jet fighters, South Africa has NEVER come close to Pakistan's level !
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jln115:
Actually it's 150+ mk1bs and 26 mk2s...I've posted multiple sources through out the year that supported these claims.

LIAR

"Olifant Mk.1B is an upgraded variant of the Olifant Mk.1A tank. About 44 vehicles were upgraded to the Mk.1B standard."

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/olifant_mk1b.htm
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jln115:
Actually most of our tanks are Mk1b and Mk2s that boast advanced composite armour and state of thee art fire control systems.

Mk1As are mostly used for displays and target practice for our Rooivalk.

hey dude, stop lying here, we have spent time to thrash out this topic this year.

MOST of SANDF Olifants tanks have the old school RHA obsolete armour, ONLY 44 tanks out of about 230 tanks got new passive armour.

"The Olifant Mk.1B (Elephant) is an upgraded variant of the Olifant Mk.1A tank. About 44 vehicles were upgraded to the Mk.1B standard."

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/olifant_mk1b.htm

What target practice? Your Rooivalks have blown up a whole 150 units of Olifant Mk 1 tanks in target practice? Whom do you wanna fool ?

See your almost 200 units of old school Olifant tanks still in service with NO UPGRADE ARMOUR....try fire ATGM missile on your these your obsolete Olifant tanks or let them fight Abrams tank and Challenger tanks, then we will know if your sardine cans are better than a T-72
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jln115:
I'll go first: www.atraircraft.com>downlod_center

Your weblink does not open

africaken:
seriously!

this is an American RC-12N Guardrail Common Sensor aircraft,An signal/electronic intelligence gathering aircraft .that nigerian ATR-42 Surveyor doesn't have such capability,where are the antennae.i also told you your FLIR pod is old,you need to upgrade .

if you want an upgrade call this guys

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGktlqf25bQ

American RC-12N Guardrail Common Sensor aircraft

Don't confuse SIGNIT different elements of COMINT vs ELINT.

You posted an American RC-12N aircraft enhanced for COMINT not ISTAR enhanced, where is it's ground search radar ?

It's folly to compare ATR-42 to that type of 'radar-less' aircraft you posted, that's a mere army only aircraft, it's useless to navy and air force, it cannot do ISTAR and AWAC roles like the ATR-42.

ELINT is complemented by the SATCOM dome atop the spine of NAF ATR-42.

Does RAF Sentinel have all those antennae on the American plane ? Yet the Sentinel is likely the best ISTAR platform in this world.

Old FLIR ? ATR-42 Surveyor is a modern aircraft that came into operation in year 2008, the FLIR is also 2008, is that what you call old ?

Please find another customer to send to those your guys for FLIR upgrade, NAF ATR-42 is good with it's year 2008 ultra-modern FLIR.

All your points are incorrect, sorry sir.

By the way, why is every non-Nigerian obsessed with NAF ATR-42 Surveyor? Any good post on it's awesome capability provokes an attack !
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jln115:
Well for one, it doesn't have a 407km radar range

And the radar TWS is only 32 targets, not 200.

It does, your info is wrong. I have the radar name and specs. I don't want argument on this thread, but if the forums asks me for proof, I will post manufacturer's sources for NAF-ATR-42 Surveyor to prove all the highlights I posted
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patches689:
We know T72 uses ERA, and even with ERA it gets obliterated.

You buffoon that thought that with ERA you have to hit it in the same spot twice - you had no idea that tandem head warheads exists

I already proved that wrong on the other thread, there are different ERA types on different T-72 battle tanks.

"Kontakt-5 ERA are harder to trigger by the precursor charges of tandem warheads, forcing the producers of tandem ATGMs to allocate more mass to precursor charge and, making an MBT more resistant to tandem HEAT warheads."

You spend your time posting personal opinions about T-72, stop misleading people here, when you see Nigerians, be careful what lies you tell.

#Educated For Free By Smarter Nigerians
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patches689:
Augustus, you were the one who shied away from honest debate on went straight to denying you had said things and hurling insults.

The only fool is one who wades into a discussion about ATGM's and top of the range modern MBT's and starts blathering on about T72's.

Discussion was about how bad a T-72 is, you and the other guy were busy posting photos of T-72 destroyed by missiles.

You go all over internet saying T-72 is bad, you claim you are expert on tanks, yet you NEVER mentioned in your comments that it was old generation T-72 against modern generation tanks and missiles, until I started challenging your claims, you never talked about RHA vs ERA vs Composite armour, you foolishly thought all tanks are of the same protection level.....Adult fool

I said you should show us how European tanks of same generation as T-72 have fared against ATGM or M1A1 Abrams that has composite armour, but you FAILED to reply with any evidence.

Any tanks ammunition or fuel storage can be hit, Centurion tanks suffer same fate, yet you don't announce them as a bad tank because South African army has large numbers of Centurion tanks.

Well, keep running away, I repeatedly ask you to show us video of European tank Vs ATGM, you run away, but I will post one for the world to see your biased and incompetent opinions/comments that you paste all over internet....Grown up E-Fool

VIDEO : BRITISH CENTURION TANK VS ATGM....SEE HOW THE TANK BEGINS TO ROAST ITSELF FROM INSIDE UNTIL BARBECUED


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LieUSOgq-bU

LET ME SEE YOU RUBBISH A T-72 TANK AGAIN, E-FOOL !
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patches689:
I responded to your initial post at the top of the page - you are right it is clear for all to see it.

Again you see imaginary insults - I dont dislike the T-72 because Nigeria uses it. I dislike the T-72 because it is a TERRIBLE tank

All of my posts have been factual and sensible, the problem here is that you are being overly sensitive and take everything personally.

You are the immature old man that takes things personally. I posted European and Sudanese T-72 tanks, then you responded with South African army uniformed man with MILAN anti-tank missile and wrote that "We all know who operates a MILAN ATGM", why did you not post another country's MILAN ?

T-72 tank totally defeated British made Iranian Chieftain tanks in Gulf war. Proof confirmed by Iranian army tank commander :

http://www.iran-heritage.org/interestgroups/war-iraqiran-news2.htm


Show me a 1st or 2nd generation tank like the T-72 that fought T-72 and won. Show me an European 1st or 2nd generation tank in a video where it resisted any ATGM.....

Pitch those other tanks of equal generation as T-72, against the same weapons used to destroy T-72 and show us the battle result now !

Adult fool

PHOTO : BRITISH MADE CENTURION TANK BEHEADED IN BATTLE
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jln115:
http://defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=39691:sea-trials-next-for-refurbished-drakies&catid=51:Sea&Itemid=106

Sea trials next for refurbished "Drakies"

The SAN big coward big ship with 10 anti-aircraft guns, and yet ran away from one NAF Alpha jet that had no single guided weapon

patches689:
And the post you made at 1:00pm is your initial post which I responded to.

Nope, that your response at 2:41 pm quoted my comment of 2:38 pm NOT 1:00 pm initial post. It's visible above for all eyes.

Let's limit comments, and let's avoid deliberately rubbishing one weapon because we don't like one country that uses them.

Photos with sensible comments OR no comments at all.

patches689:
Yes, I agree.

It is an obsolete tank and people should stop buying it - it has no place on the modern battlefield.

South Sudan and Ethiopia just bought T-72 tanks in recent years. How many countries in the world have $5 million to spend on one 3rd generation tank ? In the whole of West Africa, almost no country has ever bought a tank except Nigeria, not even Ghana, or Chad and Cameroon in central Africa. T-72 will continue to sell all over the world.

patches689:
That is not what you said in your initial post.

I responded to your initial post.

Nope, you responded at 2:41 pm to my post of 2:38 pm, my initial post was way back at 1:00 pm.

Let's leave this argument and return to photos. If we choose to comment, let's avoid biased one sided comments, better not to comment at all.

patches689:
The performance of all T-72's in all combat arena's, regardless of the armor packages they have, has shown it to be an utterly inferior tank.

No tank in the world of same 1st and 2nd generation as the T-72, has been able to defeat it in battle. War history proves that.

About every tank in the world with no composite armour will be demolished by ATGM hits, no tank in the world will survive those missiles or hits that destroyed T-72.

People talk about T-72 because it's the only cold war era tank that fought battles in modern times against modern anti-tank weapons.

Show us European tanks of 1st and 2nd generation that resisted ATGM in battle.....you will find NONE !
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patches689:
No augustus, you said caliber you said nothing about types.

Learn to read like an adult.

AugustineAgain:
There are different types and calibre of ATGM and their effectiveness varies from type to type.

patches689:
Laser warning does not work against radio or wire guided SACLOS ATGM systems such as.... the Milan... and by the way, guess who operates the Milan

France operates and makes the Milan.

Don't bring South Africa Vs Nigeria rivalry to this clean thread. Not only SANDF operates the Milan ATGM, so why post one strange country's ERA armour destroyed by what we don'f know, beside a SANDF Milan missile, is it SANDF that destroyed the T-72 ?

Also read my comment again, I said "Proper ERA", there are different types of ERA used by different countries.

I deliberately avoided posting photo of Nigerian T-72, I posted South Sudanese to avoid immature people here from starting another South Africa Vs Nigeria argument here on a photo thread.

Please grow up and know where not to drag SA vs NIG argument, it does not fit the theme of this thread. Be mature and control your emotions

patches689:
Charge type does not relate to calibre

You constructed an argument that tried to imply that to take out ERA you had to hit it in the same place twice.

This is an incorrect argument, due to the proliferation of tandem head charges.

If you want to say that ERA is effective against obsolete weapons systems then say so

My argument is simple, but clearly not simple enough

I just told you to form a habit of reading carefully, when the writer has written carefully.

Read my comment again, I said "There are different types and calibre of ATGM and their effectiveness varies from type to type."

I said type also, not just calibre, and I said type more than calibre. Type refers to warheads/charges/etc.

Also read the Kontakt-5 ERA I posted above, it defeats some tandem ATGM.

Be balanced in your comments, every coin has two sides. Let's not mislead people by one sided comments.

patches689:
Augustus. This is completely and utterly wrong.

Here is a very important phrase: Tandem-Head Charge

It defeats ERA with ease, but hey - dont take my word for it - take a look at this:

T72, with ERA gets suffers a catastrophic penetration - watch from 7:00 min onwards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmRpmM69XvY

ERA is designed to protect against shaped charge (HE, HESH, older RPG's and such) as well as SABOT rounds... against tandem-head charges ERA is fvcked.

Hence why NATO nations favor passive Chobham and Dorchestor armor over reactive armor (they use small amounts of ERA here and there)

Go back and read my post again, I said "depending on the calibre of ATGM though".

There are different types and calibre of ATGM and their effectiveness varies from type to type.

I constructed my comment carefully, learn to read carefully too.

Also, there are different types of ERA :

"Kontakt-5 ERA are harder to trigger by the precursor charges of tandem warheads, forcing the producers of tandem ATGMs to allocate more mass to precursor charge and, making an MBT more resistant to tandem HEAT warheads."

http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/EQP/kontakt5.html

Lets not drag this issue, I comment in a balanced way, I don't tilt to one side as if the other side of the coin does not exist.

Once upon a time, when NAF was born....