₦airaland Forum

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[size=16pt]South Africans ran away from this thread after Gripen + Rooivalk + Mokopa fired, missed target, and disgraced SANDF publicly



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SAAF should consider selling Gripens and buying transports

Written by Guy Martin, Wednesday, 29 October 2014

The South African Air Force (SAAF) has 26 Gripens in its inventory but 12 are in “rotational” storage and only 18 Gripen navigators and pilots have been trained to operational status. Which begs the question: what should we do with aircraft we don’t need and can’t afford to operate?

The solution could be a simple one: sell off the 12 Gripens in storage (since we won’t miss them anyway) and use the money for fuel, pilot training and new equipment that the Air Force desperately needs - its C-130 Hercules fleet is ageing and the Air Force is increasingly forced to rely on charters to move people and equipment to places like the Democratic Republic of Congo, while the SAAF’s maritime surveillance C-47TPs are more than half a century old and suffering from attrition.

Henry240:
Nigeria to sign contract for SU-34 Fighter-Bomber in 2017 with deliveries to commence in 2020


According to Russian media (I got banned for posting the link)


"It was learned that the military leadership in Nigeria
has expressed interest in acquiring
Russian attack aircraft . Conclusion of a contract
the supply of Su- 32 may already be in 2017
along withwith the delivery of the first combat vehicle in 2020 .
Management has set a target for Nigeria
reform of the national armed forces"



*Agaugust, you lost!

Your source weblink clearly says with it's own spirit of honesty and uncertainty :

Expressed INTEREST.

This purchase is LIKELY.

Contract MAYBE signed 2017.

When did INTEREST, LIKELY, and MAYBE become a valid purchase order for $55 million Su-34 that has not even been evaluated by NAF ? The Su-30MK2 that was evaluated was evaluated SEVERAL TIMES from 2012-2015 because of same interest, yet it was never purchased.

Your one sided Russian news source is as good as Defenceweb saying Nigeria is interested in Rooivalk, yet no single comment to back it up from NAF, MoD, or FG.....and also no comment from Russian government or Sukhoi manufacturer. Henry, that is a reliable news and confirmed purchase, abi? Same way an American newspaper reported last year 2015 immediately after Buhari's meeting with Obama to present Nigeria's list of needed weapons, that Nigeria has signed contract for purchase of 8 Apache helicopters for $500 million. You see any NAF Apache anywhere one year after? Here is the source :

http://www.persecondnews.com/index.php/archives/item/4087-washington-u-s-to-sell-apache-attack-helicopters-to-nigeria
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South African Captain of the ship Safmarine Kuramo, Captain Zetta Gous-Conradie, described the experience as horrific, as she hailed the Nigerian Navy for its prompt response to her distress call. She is seen in the photo below saying thank you to the Nigerian navy officers of Eastern Naval Command handing over her ship back to her after the high tempo rescue operation.
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What ship is this visiting Nigerian navy? Must be an European navy vessel.

chkil:
actually the equipement made by algeria and in service is :

03 Djebel Chenoua-class corvettes , (351/352/353)
01 Hassan Barbia Class corvette (807)
12 patrollers el kebir class ( 37 metre ) (341/ 342 ect.......)
and many other small patrollers, Tugboat .....

but compared to other equipment of the Algerian navy ( fregate class koni / meko , corvette class nanushka, c28a , submarines , patrollers , LPD ect ...... ) this is not very important . most important Shipbuilding and repair compagny of mers el kebir Oran can repair and upgrade all algerian navy equipement even the submarines and other sophisticated equipment

Okay, now we see Algeria has one of the biggest defence industries in Africa, just that you have been silent as a country, people outside dont know you build warships.

Can you get photo of Algerian S-300 SAM ? Then where do you get money to buy all these expensive weapons, does Algeria not spend on other things with your big population? Where's all these money coming from? Is this an Algerian Su-30 photo below ?

FighterPilot:
That depend on the RCS of the object targeted. Gripen has an RCS of 0.1 sqm. Which is impossible to detect in that distance.

Fool, even the Darren Oliver you are praising as expert says Gripen RCS 0.1 m2 is a marketing gimmick, he personaly estimated 0.5 m2. There is nobody who knows Gripen RCS, even the manufacturer SAAB is silent on the issue of RCS.....only fools try to cook up imaginary figures for it

FighterPilot:
Hallelujah!!

HE IS A QUALIFIED MILITARY RESEARCHER. NOT A FAKE PARADING AS QUALIFIED RESEACHER WHO DOES NOT KNOW SIMPLE TDL AND RCS. LOOK AT THE JOKES HE WRITES ALL OVER HERE. THE MAN IS REALLY DISAPPOINTING TO ASSERTS HIMSELF AS PROFESSIONAL RESEACHER WITH THE LEVEL OF POOR KNOWLEDGE HE IS EXUDING. HE IS REALLY DIAPPOINTING.

Darren Oliver is a mere journalist who writes on defence for his newspaper. Simple....he works for a newspaper NOT a military organization or defence industry. He is an ordinary journalist.

Last year I corrected he was talking rubbish about Angolan Su-30 and South African military experts like Helmod Heitman were correctinig his errors, I also corrected him on A-Darter range
...LOL....Darren is a mere newspaper journalist, writing on defence matters like other thousands of defence news correspondents and journalists all over the world......or is he an ex-air force pilot?

LOL.....he is a mere journalist.

jln115:
Unlike you he is an accredited and published military researcher/Journalist and it wouldn't be in his interest to spread false and misleading information like you!!

Darren Oliver is a mere journalist who writes on defence for his newspaper. Simple....he works for a newspaper NOT a military organization or defence industry. He is an ordinary journalist.

jln115:
Listen dumbdumb the mk3 was sold standard with all Gripen C/Ds the older Gripen A/Bs used the mk1version.

Post source to prove that, post us a weblink, official source.

jln115:
Fvck!!!! Don't you ever read my posts? I never once said SAAF uses the PS/05 mk4... I said we use the mk 3 version that can track a 0.5m2 target at 120km, that means it can track a SU30 at over 150km.

And I don't give a Fvck about your Junk Fighter since NAF does not have any!!

SAAF ordered Gripen in 1999, the Mk 3 radar did not exist at that time.

Show us proof that SAAF got Mk 3 radar....SAAB says they sold 1992 version of the radar to you.

Prove that you got mk 3, prove it....

mzilakazi:
JF-17 has a radar range of

Up looking = 105 Km
Down looking= 85

It has a huge RCS of 5 sq mtr compare to that of Gripens 0.5 sq mtr

For more specs.

Official JF-17 web


http://www.jf-17.com/avionics/


Gripen wins. It has radar range of 125 KM

That website is NOT an official JF-17 website, check the contact menu, the owner of the website is unknown.....you dummy cant even think independently.

JF-17 max radar range is 135 km and beats Gripen's 120 km...

https://shamazkhan./tag/klj-7-radar/
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jln115:
How fvcking ret@rded are you??

http://saabgroup.com/Media/news-press/news/2015-04/upgraded-ps-05a-radar-gives-gripen-cd/

The above weblink says NOTHING about South African Gripen radar, it only talks about 2015 uogrades which SAAF DOES NOT HAVE on your obsolescent Gripen jets with obsolete 25 year old radar. JF-17 Thunder flies with superior and modern year 2005 KLJ-7 radar with an even superior 135 km range.

JF-17 beats Gripen, flat !
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jln115:
Did I say SAAF uses the PS/05 mk4??

We use the mk3 which can track a 0.5m2 target at 120km!

We will however be getting the mk4 version when we upgrade to block20.

Liar !! Fraud !!

"Saab has a long experience in development of radars for fighter aircraft. PS-05/A for the Gripen aircraft has been in service since 1992. At present, the Gripen with PS-05/A operates in several countries.

Reference customers include the air forces of Sweden, South Africa, Hungary, the Czech Republic and Thailand."

http://saab.com/air/sensor-systems/fighter-radar/ps-05-a/


Your air force Gripen flies with an obsolete 25 year old radar confirmed by SAAB that sold the radar to you !!! JF-17 has a year 2005 modern radar with 135 km range, a more modern radar than SAAF Gripen
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..

mzilakazi:
Why do you like to hurt yourself so much?


Reutech- Communication technology company says you are lying. Don't you feel ashamed?



http://www.reutechcomms.com/linkza/

It failed, 2011 technical resesrch report FROM INSIDE SOUTH AFRICA BY SOUTH AFRICAN EXPERTS says Link ZA failed to perfom across different equipment, it was a huge disappointment. Sorry your Reutech manufacturer is too ashamed to admit failure publicly.

Here is the proof of Link ZA 80% failure

http://www.argospress.com/jbt/article_abstracts/14-3-2-abstract.pdf

SANDF got an overpriced intercom instead of tactical data link .
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jln115:
WTF are you smoking bro?? The Gripen has an RCS of 0,1m2, the smallest of any none stealth fighter....also the PS/05 mk4 can track an 0.1m2 target at 120km...that's almost on par with some AESA radars on the market.

RCS is a speculative figure joggled by anybody anyhow. Show me SAAB data stating Gripen RCS at 0.1m2....show proof !

Also Show proof that SAAF Gripen uses PS/05 Mk 4 radar, it was not existing when SAAF orderd Gripen and chose a radar, it was PS/05 A version available then in the 1990s and that is what SAAB official website says they installed on South African Gripen jet.

"Saab has a long experience in development of radars for fighter aircraft. PS-05/A for the Gripen aircraft has been in service since 1992. At present, the Gripen with PS-05/A operates in several countries.

Reference customers include the air forces of Sweden, South Africa, Hungary, the Czech Republic and Thailand."

http://saab.com/air/sensor-systems/fighter-radar/ps-05-a/

Your air force Gripen flies with an obsolete 25 year old radar !!! JF-17 has a more modern radar than SAAF Gripen
.

jln115:
PS/05 is the most modern pulse doplar Radar on the market....yes it lacks some advantages than AESA(also has a few advantages) but the Gripens tiny RCS makes up for this...also its still better than the PESA Radar most Russian fighters fly with.

Also it's the Gripens software that makes it 4++ Gen.

Lies lies lies !!!!

SAAF Gripen PS/05 radar is 25 year old obsoelete technology, how can that be the best in the world? Then all mechanical pulse doppler radars are inferior to PESA electronic radars, so how can Gripen fight Su-30 MK flanker?

http://saab.com/air/sensor-systems/fighter-radar/ps-05-a/

More lies, Gripen jet RCS is huge, and thermal emission rating is bad engine characteristics with smoke coming out of it's engine like MiG-29 jet, we see Gripen jet engine puffing out thick black smoke in flight, that makes enemy sensors to detect the Gripen so easily.

Stop telling lies dude ! Even F-7 jet has better RCS and thermal emission rating than Gripen.

jln115:
It's not an opinion it's fact:
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6534

Nope, 2010 defenceweb report of falsehood.

The technical performance reserach report is dated 2011 after the world cup.


http://researchspace.csir.co.za/dspace/handle/10204/5389

Title: Case study of the development of a SANDF tactical data link network enabling capability [Journal article]
Authors: Smith, CJ
Venter, JP
Keywords: Network enabling capabilities
Link-ZA
Interoperability
South African National Defence Force
SANDF
Tactical Data Links
Battlefield technology
Issue Date: Nov-2011
Publisher: Argos Press
Citation: Smith, CJ and Venter, JP. Year 2011 Case study of the development of a SANDF tactical data link network enabling capability. Journal of Battlefield Technology, Vol 14.

http://www.argospress.com/jbt/article_abstracts/14-3-2-abstract.pdf

As of 2011 date, SANDF tactical datalink is a failure 80% failed, show us a 2012-2016 technical report to cancel that.
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jln115:
Dude LinkZA standard has only been stabilized since the end of 2009 and full integration only started afterwards....so you can go on with this outdated source of yours but the fact remains we have a fully interoperable TDL and you dont.

Show me new technical report that cancels this one.... http://www.argospress.com/jbt/article_abstracts/14-3-2-abstract.pdf

Your personal opinion is NOT a fact ! Show us technical proof.

Patchesagain:
1. So naval officer confirms it is operational


The ships can transmit their radar-pictures real-time to the Air Force Command Post in Pretoria or to Gripen fighters tasked with intercepting aircraft intruding into these areas using Link ZA.
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7077&catid=111&Itemid=242

2. Paper outlines how it was integrated


Again, read things before you post them

You should read before you post, stop sulking, I have wrecked SANDF tactical data link false claims. Go eat the humble pie.

1. The Navy officer did NOT say their ship is data linked to Gripen jet, that statement was made by the magazine journalist who has no knowledge of the technical failure report. The words of the navy are in quotation marks, the words of the journalist had no quotation, he was speaking his own mind loaded with error and ignorance of the technical failure report on Link ZA.

2. Paper outlines how it was integrated and failed to work from aircraft to artillery or ship to submarine, report says DISAPPOINTMENT !

SANDF has intra-net and not tactical data link, let that sink into y.our sk.ull.....never mind that I spoiled your weekend
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Patchesagain:
Augustus

Have you read the abstract of the technical paper you posted here?

The paper outlines how the platforms were integrated

Also, you are saying that Navy Flag Officer Fleet, Rear Admiral Robert “Rusty” Higg has no idea about his own vessels?

You messed up big time with your source

Nope, it is SANDF Link Za that messed up big time, according to South African experts FINAL TECHNICAL REPORT

"Delivery of SDPP’s started in 2005 with frigates and submarines and was followed by LIFT aircraft in 2006, maritime helicopters in 2007 and fighter aircraft in 2009. The impression by many was that Link-ZA compliance by SDPP acquisition projects would imply message exchange inter-operability between all these platforms.

Disappointingly it was found that most platforms could only exchange information between similar type platforms ."

http://www.argospress.com/jbt/article_abstracts/14-3-2-abstract.pdf


You have NO tactical datalink, SANDF got intranet Link ZA, finished
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Patchesagain:
No - the report says UPON DELIVERY

And it is not even the full report which is an outline of how integration of the platforms was done

Even in 2010 partial integration had been done:

[color=#006600]The ships can transmit their radar-pictures real-time to the Air Force Command Post in Pretoria or to Gripen fighters tasked with intercepting aircraft intruding into these areas using Link ZA. [/color]
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7077&catid=111&Itemid=242

Think before you post

Nope defenceweb is wrong he is being wrong like you guys too are wrong, most South Africans beleve Link Za is working accross platforms, but the TECHNICAL REPORT SAYS NO !!?

You have NO tactical datalink, SANDF got intranet Link ZA, finished.

Show me another technical report that cancels this one, not fairy tales from ordinary journalists on defenceweb magazine ...

"Delivery of SDPP’s started in 2005 with frigates and submarines and was followed by LIFT aircraft in 2006, maritime helicopters in 2007 and fighter aircraft in 2009. The impression by many was that Link-ZA compliance by SDPP acquisition projects would imply message exchange inter-operability between all these platforms.

Disappointingly it was found that most platforms could only exchange information between similar type platforms ."

http://www.argospress.com/jbt/article_abstracts/14-3-2-abstract.pdf


You have NO tactical datalink, SANDF got intranet Link ZA, finished
.

jln115:
Outdated!!! Considering my 2012 source was also outdated according to you!!

Anyway, if you read the source, you would've noticed that the author was talking about the problems regarding LinkZA in 2005-2008!!
It was still in development phase back then.

It 7 years later and linkza is fully operational, and fully interoperable between all platforms in the SANDF!! Also linkZA standard only stabilized at the end of 2009 so it make sense if they still had glitches before then.

Also it says nothing about it being an 80% failure!!

The final report clearly says DELIVERY began 2005 after development and testing had been done. Ooerational delivery was done and Soweto tactical data link failed 80%, when it CANNOT do the real job of tactical datalink it is an 80% failure because all existibg platforms COULD NOT communicate with each other.

You Southies have been telling lies to us on Nairaland since year 2010.

mzilakazi:
You are 80% failure yourself. You come with a 2011 source, a year after LINK ZA was launched. The system was only still being introduced ZA has been effectively used in lohatlha during exercises and has been a success. It communicates with all systems and IT IS A SUCCESS.

REUTECH IN 2016 SAYS YOU ARE A LIER. THE SYTEM COMMUNICATES WITH ALL PLATFORMS.

http://www.reutechcomms.com/linkza/

LASTLY, NIGERIA DOES NOT HAVE A TDL,.SO WE ARE TECHNOLOGICALLY SUPERIOR THAN YOU.

That report of 2009 was the FINAL result after fully developing, testing, installing, deploying, and operating the LINK ZA on each type of platform that South Africa has, it was used on Gripen, jet, Hawk jet, Valour Frigate, Type 209 Submarine, Rooivalk Helicopter, G-6 Rhino Artillery, Olifant tank and etc.

The operational result was disappointing, as the tactical data-link ONLY worked on same equipment types, e.g Gripen to Gripen, it failed to work from jet aircraft to warship, helicopter to artillery, even Gripen jet and Hawk jet failed to commumicate as the disappointment was all round A to Z.

Now prove to me with credible source that the failure has changed to success as at today 2016, until you prove it the 2009 technical failure conclusive report remains current and final.

Don't post Reutech website for us here, the website information is not stated to be 2016, it has no date, and Reutech has been using that website even before Link ZA was completed, so it is posting old information, and the website does NOT say Link Za communicates across different types of platforms like aircraft to ship, it only says multiple platforms and that is like Gripen to Gripen only as the final report says while explaining the big disaponitment in operational performance of the failed made in Zulu land tactical data link.

South Africa has NO tactical datalink, what you have is an intranet for Gripen to Gripen, Valour to Valour, Rooivalk to Rooivalk type of communication.

http://www.argospress.com/jbt/article_abstracts/14-3-2-abstract.pdf

Case closed
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AugustineAgain:
It's available in South Africa, I have read it online. Link ZA is 80% a failure.

jln115:
Post the report bro!!

Patchesagain:
So then provide a citation to substantiate your claims

[size=14pt]

"Delivery of SDPP’s started in 2005 with frigates and submarines and was followed by LIFT aircraft in 2006, maritime helicopters in 2007 and fighter aircraft in 2009. The impression by many was that Link-ZA compliance by SDPP acquisition projects would imply message exchange inter-operability between all these platforms.

Disappointingly it was found that most platforms could only exchange information between similar type platforms ."

http://www.argospress.com/jbt/article_abstracts/14-3-2-abstract.pdf

SANDF Link ZA is an 80% failure, army, navy, air force CANNOT communicate with each other !

Even Gripen CANNOT communicate with Hawk, it can only use the data link Gripen to Gripen.

SAAF cannot use the FAKE tactical data link to send messages to SANDF artillery !

Link ZA ia a failure, South Africa DOES NOT have a functioning fully integrated Tactical Data Link !
.[/size]

jln115:
Nope...unlike you, we take the manufacturers specifications, above some Nigerians retaarded opinion.

Nope....unlike you, we Nigerians are intelligent enough to CHALLENGE any manufacturer in this world, we think independently. If the manufacturer says something contrary to world accepted facts, we challenge it, buy you South Africans lack the intelligence to do that, you can be fed stomach full with sand and gravel, you will still say thank you for the meal.

jln115:
I also said I thought fly by wire ment its 4th gen...but PAC obviously thinks otherwise.

You NEVER said that you liar, you just kept saying it's 3rd gen and even claimed it was according to me and PAC....you have been provd to be unable to think independently without external help 24/7. Dullaard.

jln115:
It took almost 20 years to develop....

...20 long years because NATO refused to transfer data-link technology to South Africa. As I said, South African defence industry is spoon fed by white-men built European companies opening branches in South Africa, once that European life-line is cut off, your local defence industry including DENEL will become like that of Burundi
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jln115:
Delusional!! thats what you are!!

Why dont you show us that report?

It's available in South Africa, I have read it online. Link ZA is 80% a failure.

I will recommend AU begin to develop special forces and train them in Belarus for COIN, look at their photos. African Union needs this capability, a standby force of 1,000 SF will make quick response more impacting than using regular troops for special ops.

http://www.mil.by/en/forces/sso/

https://www.google.ca/search?q=belarus+special+forces&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=623&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiiv47Ao5nKAhWKox4KHRvlCpkQsAQIGg&dpr=1#imgrc=_
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jln115:
It took almost 20 years and tens of millions of rand to develop, thus it was certainly more than $1 million.

Prove it ! Liar.

Defenceweb said LINK ZA costs a few million Rands, not tens of millions. Even ten million rand is only about 600 k dollars you fraud !

LINK ZA is very cheap to produce.

Patchesagain:
Why are you off topic again?

I am not off topic, I am just telling you that with your datalink LINK ZA, North Korea, Egypt, Algeria, Ethiopia, Morocco, Nigeria, even Uganda and Angola with Su-30 Flankers will defeat South Africa in battle, your tactical datalink is NOT a weapon and does not fire on anybody, neither will it stop a 5,000 km/h missile from a JF-17 against your Gripen.