₦airaland Forum

Omonigeriarere:
There is difference between the two statements below bro:

1. You can't bid for primary market unless you have up to N50m.

2. You can't bid for primary market because you don't have up to N50m.

Take things cool bro. Things are hard in the country, but we are all here.

By the way, there's no difference between these two statements you wrote here.

The fact that you think there's a difference is the basis of your arguments.

There isn't.

Omonigeriarere:
My statement is clear and direct enough for anyone to understand; this epistle does not help in any way.

Nobody assumes that this thread is not good enough for billionaires to be part of as cash and cash equivalent is not the only asset available when it comes to investment.

Stop taking issue out of no issue bro.

No, your statement was based on an assumption otherwise is utterly redundant.


You have to choose between accepting you made a statement based on a faulty assumption


Or
That you made a statement that doesn't follow logic.

You're guilty of at least one.

There's nothing wrong in admitting to mistakes

Omonigeriarere:
I walked down straight to Stanbic IBTC branch at Alausa, Ikeja today and the rates given were as indicated below:

91 days = 16.3%

182 days = 17.44%

364 days = 20.6%

Please note that the rates are susceptible to daily changes.

They're just quoting yesterday's PMA rates.

They're not rates anyone can get at anytime today.

Omonigeriarere:
There is difference between the two statements below bro:

1. You can't bid for primary market unless you have up to N50m.

2. You can't bid for primary market because you don't have up to N50m.


Take things cool bro. Things are hard in the country, but we are all here.

Somethings are logically implied.

If you really thought his bid was up to N50m,
You're trying to tell me that your actual statement to him was:

"Bro, I know your bid is more than N50m, the thing is you can't really set your own bid unless you're doing more than N50m"

On what planet will he not look you with side eye.

Your statement is more like
"Bro, I know your bid is only N10m, the thing is you can't really set your own bid unless you're doing more than N50m"

Only then does it follow.

Omonigeriarere:
My statement is conditional bro, and there is no where it was mentioned that he has no up to N50m. So, your epistle is tantamount to nothing.

"you can't bid for primary market unless you have up to N50m'.

The above is my statement; please go and have your lunch sir.

By that statement, you're assuming his bid was less than N50m.

If not you would have known that it was an unnecessary statement to make

Streetinvestor2:
Then why did fbn cancel my bid.i filled the form on Monday which was 2 days earlier. The guy who handled it asked I should go with 20%.Is like the want people to be doing thr secondary market I have always noticed

Personally, I prefer StanbicIBTC in these matters.

And I think we established them as the best bank in this aspect back in the day when we were sharing experiences. Sometimes in 2018 I guess.

I don't have a recent experience with them,

But I still think they would have handled even 20.4% for you successfully.

Omonigeriarere:
You can't bid for primary market unless you have up to N50m. The offers by the banks are secondary.

The financial gurus in the house should correct me if I am wrong please.

So why did you assume he doesn't have N50m?

Pay attention to where he stated that the banker suggested a rate to him and you would realize that he was to set his own bid, meaning his bid may have not just been N50m but perhaps even N500m.

We shouldn't assume that this thread is not good enough for billionaires to be part of.

364 days rates actually went up marginally today.

I would have been surprised if 20% bid failed.

P.S The guy who posts these results is on Instagram.

Streetinvestor2:
Fbn just credited back my account with fund for TB.iIt means it failed. I wonder why.They advice I bid at 20%.
Did anyone bid go with fbn primary market today

It'll be strange if 20% fails today's auction, especially since subscription rates seem to now be tapering.

omakay:
Abeg, help me with time deposit rates for GTBank. Preferably 1 month.... Thanks

My GUESS is 15% which is effectively 13.5% after tax?

Why not put the money in an MMF. You can get higher rates, and you can liquidate anytime. You may need the money before the 30 days if say an opportuinity shows up, or you may not need it yet after the 30 days, and wish to hold the investment a little longer.

MMF makes it super easy to determine the exact time you want to liquidate, and you'll certainly get a higher rate.

If you still really prefer the time deposit, you may need to contact your account officer as the rates offered vary from branch to branch sometimes.

RayRay06677:
Thanks bro but I ended up confused. Thanks again.

Okay Think of this like this:

Assuming you know a business, The total assets that business has is like N32 million (total money they're using for the business), The owner's actual money after removing what he owes to vendors and creditor is like N3million.
The business makes like N 250,000 gross earnings per month.

If the owner wants to sell that business to you and Japa. You will get everything in the business, the entire N32m capital, the N3m equity and the 250k monthly earnings. How much would you think is a fair deal to pay the owner?

How about N5m? or at least N3m?

On the stock market, you can buy everything for N700,000.


That's what the current pricing of some Nigerian banks are. In the case of Fidelity sha, the pricing for thesame assets is like N2m.

Wotowotoman:
After all these years, no be you suppose to dey advise newbies on how to go about these things? Oga, na wa for you o…

It never hurts to seek second or third opinion.

RayRay06677:
Good morning good people, please let the masters help ascertain the strength of fidelity bank.

How advisable for one to grab their shares?

Thanks

It depends on why you want to buy.
The bank's books look healthy:
PE is just about 2.5x (Q1 '24 annualized, avg price of N10)
gross earnings and net earnings are both up about + 100% yoy
PBV is 0.69x
Total assets are nearly $5bn,
shareholder's funds at about N467bn,
I do not have the NPL figures but I expect it's under 7%

However, I should add that while these numbers are cool, there are banks with even cooler numbers. some with PEs as low as 0.3x, and PBV of like 0.25x.


The risk of license revocation is almost non existent for FIDELITYBK as the bank isn't in distress., maybe highest, they may sack the bank's management if anything(like MD and CBN director are dragging land ).

When Skye Bank went under, the terrifying numbers had been showing in their books for years prior.
Heritage Bank isn't publicly traded, so their books weren't as open, But anyone who know the history from OmegaBank to SpringBank to Enterprise Bank to Heritage Bank should have said "That's not why I came to Lagos "
There's still another bank that has been operating without any money of their own (negative shareholder's funds- they are deep in debt) for years now, the mystery of why that banks keeps surviving regulatory hammer is only understood by nigerian poiliticians.

ZEAK:
Thanks for your swift response on the FCY debt instruments.

Again, Do you know any Federal Government accredited Precious Metal Vendors or Corporate Institutions that sells real precious metals?

I do not.

If there are people in the house who know and probably have good experience buying gold jeweleries or gold bars, please comment for us to learn from you. Thanks.

ZEAK:
@awesomej, could you please explain more on FCY debt instruments and how it works. Again, you made mention of investing in precious metals, I"d be grateful if you can throw more light on it too.

Basically FGN and corporate euro bonds are good foreign currency assets to hold. However, their primary markets are scarce(they don't happen too frequently), then their secondary market has steep entry amount ($200,000 as of my last knowledge. Maybe $100,000 these days)

So one way around it is to buy dollar mutual funds (some take as little as $1000)

I'm also aware some folks use apps like Risevest and Bamboo to buy FCY stocks, but personally I don't hold accounts with fintechs.

For precious metals, Gold is quite easy to buy I think. As long as you buy from the right vendors who sell the real deal.

One gram of gold was doing around 20k 4 years ago, today, it's around 100k. Some people are probably eyeing to sell their wedding rings sef 😁😁

But not all foreign currencies are worthwhile o. Don't go and buy Zig or CFA o, that's not why we came to Lagos 😁😁, that's not why we followed night bus.

narite:
Needless to say our money is at huge risk.

In a country where businesses are shipping off in droves for those that are healthy and can still move. Those that are not are folding up, makes me wonder who the government are going to tax to pay for all this debt.

Revenue is not even something to talk about, just servicing external debt alone has put a massive hole in income not to mention the fact that the debt keeps on rising.

Now, how is the government going to pay for all this huge internal debt? Definitely Printing more money.

It is safe to say by the time this current administration leaves power the Naira will be far more worthless than it is currently.

This treasury bills is just another indirect form of tax. The government is not giving us more money rather they are actually taking a certain portion of our money. Those who lend government money are less taxed when compared to those who do not (those who put money in savings account or hide it inside some suitcase)

In some countries, treasury bills is really not an investment.

The risk certainly exists, but it's not a risk of whether they will pay the 10m you invest for instance, they certainly will, they don't need to look for money to pay, they don't even need to expend any ink or paper to print physical notes, the computer program that will credit you is running already. It's just waiting for Date.Now() to equal your maturity date, then it updates your balance in the database while the CBN people might have even forgotten they borrowed any money.

The risk now is whether when that 10m comes, it will be worth something.
If instead of buying a car two years ago with 10m, I decided to buy 2-year savings bond, the entire coupons and capital from that investment cannot cover 70% of th cost of buying that same model today.

That's the real risk, but it's not peculiar to Tbills investors, it affects everyone who earns in the local currency. That's why you see people who aren't even Tbills investors dey vex pass T-bills investors, cos their money has lost so much value that they need 750k to buy just one ram.


It's why pension contributors are sort of being short changed, they celebrate 15% CAGR on a currency that does like -30% annually.

The point to take here is no one should hold more than 50% of their assets in instruments that have no potential for capital appreciation, if they're serious about building wealth.

Stocks, real estate, precious metals(gold and the likes), FCY debt instruments, etc should get in the mix cos they have the potential for capital appreciation and thus are great hedging instruments.

exclusiveoloori:
Pls house, my own question is, How safe is it to invest in T-bills with this rate?? I have been doing it for 12 years and the highest rate was 14% seeing it stop at 20% for a while now still amazes me. Yes I know inflation rate is high and other factors may have contributed to the sudden rise but pls experts in the house, are our monies still safe?. Hope we won’t wake up one day and hear stories. This our current government no get mercy o

The only real risk with holding sovereign assets denominated in their local currency is the currency losing value.

The risk of you not getting your funds doesn't exist, cos the government doesn't need to look for naira to pay you, they can simply just type in numbers to create trillions.

They recently created 40trn that way via ways and means and intervention funds.

No court can arrest them.

The only restraint is the more they print, the less the currency is worth.

5m during covid was almost $15,000, today it's only worth about $3300.

Now, as the poster above me wrote, if the currency loses value, then it's not only holders of TBills that become affected, it affects everyone including the regular Joe who now has to save up to 3m just to buy keke napep, something 700k would have bought if the currency was better managed.


Summary is the 20% discount rate poses no risk. And Emefiele actually elevated rates too from 2017-2019, discount rates were over 17% on long-dated papers.

[quote author=Itsrm post=130449797][/quote]Thank you.

.

.

Khyrvxjzy:
i dey vex anytime i hear "i thought"

lazy youth, read and research or kuku ask questions, illiterate

So in the post you quoted, what does it seem like he's doing if not asking questions.

I hope your comment was made as a joke sha, otherwise it describes you more than whom you're addressing.

emmasoft:
@davit Yes it's good to manage risk but the law regulating fund management differs from that of MDBs. More than one fund manager is advised because of customer satisfaction and operations, not so much because of the safety of your funds. The risk on your funds is guided by the type of fund, not the fund manager. Irrespective of the fund manager, MMF remains a low-risk investment and by law your capital is guaranteed. The investment you see in your MMF is not in cash. The money being collected from investors is invested in short debt instruments like Tbills and Commercial paper and FGN Bonds for fixed-income funds, though there could also be bank deposits. As part of the regulation, you will notice that the collection accounts for all fund managers are mostly systemic important financial institutions. Not all banks can be allowed to go the way of Heritage, so rest assured your MMF is safe and remains a low-risk investment.

The real caution for every investor is to ensure any fund manager you wish to invest with MUST be SEC regulated and the product also SEC approved. Remember having a CAC certificate of company registration is not the same as being regulated by SEC.
Let's be well-guided.

Perfectly said.

awesomeJ:
NTB Q3 Calendar

The PDF is available on CBN's website.
The homepage

NTB Q3 Calendar

NTB Q3 Calendar

Esthered:
Please I want to ask for advice on behalf of a friend with 4m.
1. He has invested in TBs earlier in the year. He isn't sure if he wants to invest in TBs again as he has no land asset.
2. He's contemplating buying a land in the outskirts of Lagos for capital appreciation.
3. He has a land in his hometown gifted by the dad that's undeveloped and was called by his uncle to build on it for the purpose of renting but has his reservation as the location is not a commercial area but town.
4. He's trying to discover himself for a business that he can do to earn a side hustle.
Kindly advise.

I don't have all your answers sha, but one thing I know is if 4m is all you have available now, you may want to gather more funds before you think of building.

Otherwise, you may end up realizing that the money you expect to complete your carcass finishes at foundation level.

Plus rental yield is hardly ever above 15%.

Streetinvestor2:
It was sold for #900. And my wife bought for that amount and equally bought punds for #1400 this same day for her mini import .She is even blaming me now for not allowing her buy with all her cash. I was telling her it will go down more.This was in April .

Some people just like arguments. Sometimes you ignore them, sometimes you put them in their place.


The fx situation seems to be beyond the CBN's efforts though.

The market traded over $350m at an average of 1191 yesterday (meaning most trades settled below 1200), still, the rates closed at 1329, today it's 1484.

I think the market will need news of a substantial inflow to go to levels the CBN wants.

Who has heard anything about the balance of Afrexim facility? Last I heard, they should be disbursing about now.

Mpeace:
That should be the reason for the full bid since yesterday.
Wow

Yes sir.
Good for the market, good for our country too.

Elsueno:
They did not sell at the rate of 980 or anything below 1k. l certainly haven't seen at that price too

You know that cos you were his CFO??

Businessday reports NNPCL has signed off on the SEPLAT/MNPU deal,
I think the market will break 100k again in a few says!!!

I'm sure if I had engaged you in a conversation about NAFEM's closing rate yeterday, you would have flaunted thesame pattern of arguing
with incomplete information.

Itsrm:
You're hearing reports and I'm telling you my experience as someone who desperately tried to buy below 1000.

Why didn't you buy from the ABCON chairman at 980 or show us the one you bought from him at that price.

I called several abokis and tried so hard to buy that period and never got a quote below 1100. The moment you want to sell they start telling you stories of how dollar is going down and they can only buy below 1000.

If the official market closed at 1173 and you're confirming that parallel market is still above 1400 at this time, you're actually agreeing with me. You just can't see it yet.

So the fact that you couldn't buy below 1100 is proof that dollar never traded below 1000, even when the person who has authority on the matter confirmed such trades on national TV.

I pity someone who hires someone with your thinking pattern for a lawyer with your "I couldn't buy below 1100, therefore no one ever bought below 1000" argument.

I don't have to disclose my trades to you but I'll indulge you. The last dollar cash I sold in April, I sold at 1080, the aboki was ready to sell at 1100 at the time. One week after then dollar crashed by another #100, going by your funny argument, if i had waited that extra week the aboki wouldn't have paid less than 1100 for my USD.

You're on your own.

If you want facts and not just baseless arguments, check channels TV or nairametrics for headlines of naira trading at 980 and rest.