asalimpo:
1) Suicide is a sin?
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says who?

Suicide is truly a sin because our life is not ours to take. We didn't give ourselves life, and it is not up to us to take it.

See this;

Romans 14v7 -For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

We don't live for ourselves neither should we die for ourselves. We live by Christ and should die by Him. He sent us into this world and He should be the one to decide to call us home.

To make it our prerogative to kill ourselves is not only an act in ungodliness, it is also a rebellious affront to the authority of the one who gave you life and sent you into this world for a purpose.

Even servants of God in scripture who because of trials of life got frustrated and tired of living, didn't take it into their hands to kill themselves, they asked God to take their lives.

Elijah:

1Kings 19v4 -4 But he himself went a day's journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a juniper tree: and he requested for himself that he might die; and said, It is enough; NOW, O LORD, TAKE AWAY MY LIFE; for I am not better than my fathers.

Jonah

Jonah 4v3 -3 Therefore now, O Lord, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live.

Why didn't these servants of God just commit suicide if they were tired of living? It wasn't as if they couldn't do it, it was because they knew that would be a rebellious affront to the authority of the one who gave them their lives and their purpose on earth, and who alone should reserve the right of when they check out.

And for both of them God did not even answer their prayers but kept them living on for the work He still had for them.

Suicide is an ungodly act and a rebellious affront to the authority of the owner of your life. It is a sin.

asalimpo:
2) The earth is 6000 years old?
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provide scriptures please.

Christians too are guilty of spewing a whole lot of crap without scriptural evidence.
And want to force it on you.

To anyone who holds the bible in authority as the Word of God, the earth is truly about 6000years old.

Exodus 20v11 - For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Man was made on the sixth day of the creation of the heavens and the earth, meaning the earth is only five days older than man.

And if you countdown the genealogy and history of mankind, right from Adam and Eve, down to the time of Moses (about 2500years after), down to the time of Jesus (about 1500years after), and down to the our present time (about 2000years after); you would see that the earth is truly about 6000years (about 5960 give or take).

The earth is only five days older than man, and the history of mankind is only about 6000years. So the earth is the same age.

Also, the 1000years millenial reign of Christ that we are expecting is going to be the sabbath of the earth or the seventh day of the earth's creation.

So if we are truly in the endtimes and the coming of Christ is close, which it is, it means the earth is in the final hours of its sixth day (its six thousandth year)

Shalom

redwriter:
Christianity in my experience is a farce. İt is an excuse for people to forego the use of their brains and critical reasoning to trust in someone up there to reason for them.
İ see many examples of them on TV and in normal life everyday. İt's pathetic. A young man proselytizing from morning to night. Won't you go to work? How will you take care of your family? Even Jesus whom you evangelise worked with his hands as a carpenter. They now do the gospel work more than the saviour Jesus Christ.
Now,what İ have described above is just one person's behaviour. İ don't think İ have a problem with God per se. İ only have a problem with the people that practise it. They are hypocrites. How do you explain the pervasive level of corruption,wickedness and greed in this supposedly 'godly' nation? İ hate religion because it encourages people to forego the use of their brains and think with their anus. They say it's faith. There are too many stories of ridiculousness people do in the name of religion. What we need is not more churches,what we need is education.
İ expect the prayer warriors to come of the woodworks now. Fire away İ tell you.
İ only have one question to ask you: Did you read your bible today? Don't lie.Remember God is watching you.

Why will you give up on christianity or on Jesus because of how others serve him? Are you a follwer of men or a follower of Christ.

If others choose to be hypocrites, why should that affect your faith in Jesus? Are you following them or Jesus?

If today my mentor backslides and becomes an adulterer, I will fall on my face and interceed for him and pray for his restoration. It won't make me lose my own faith in Jesus or say christianity is a farce.

If other people's carnality and hypocrisy is what determines your opinion of christianity, then it means you never had a personal relationship with Jesus, you knew him through character and lifestyle of others.

You should get to a point in your walk with God, where you know Jesus for yourself, and the carnality of others only makes you interceed for them in love, not affect your own faith.

You asked a question that you should have directed at yourself first, "Did you read your bible today"?

If you've read your bible, you would know that since the days of the early church, there has been carnal and ignorant brethren in the family of God and body of Christ, and that has not changed.

If you're a true believer, other people's carnality should not make you lose your faith in Jesus or in christianity but rather move you to intercession for the house of God.

Shalom

promisechuks:

The very big problem you have is that the veil of self-righteousness is becoming too much.

If you can allow the veil off your eyes, you will sincerely know that I have dealt with your misunderstanding over 1cor.3:14-15, brutally and SQUARELY. But, just that you can't see what I explained with the veil on your eyes.

And I won't be going back to explain your ignorance over that verse. But may consider to explain the next thing which is the rev. verses you quoted.

Nawa o. When you tell a christian about mortifying the lust of the flesh, subduing the deeds of the body, and working out the uprightness of imputed righteousness, they claim you're preaching self-righteousness.

Are those not all the things scripture admonish us to do?

Colosians 3v5 - Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

1Cor 9v27 - But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Romans 8v13 - For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

All these exhortations and admonitions were addressed to believers under grace. Was Paul preaching self-righteousness here too?

Why do you have selective blindness to the entirety of the doctrines of the new covenant? You love the doctrines of grace that talk about imputed righteousness and gift of eternal life, but play denial to the parts that demand mortifying the lusts of the flesh and working out the imputed righteousness. And yet you claim I'm the one with the veil.

The grace of God didn't just bring salvation, it also teaches us to say no to ungodliness?

Titus 2v11 -For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12  Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

You don't just get to accept the side of grace that bringeth salvation, and turn away from the side of grace that teaches us to deny ungodliness, as if it is optional or it has no consequence.

Everything that was imputed into our spirit by faith at the point of salvation, God wants us to work them out, and walk in the reality of it. And how well we do that post-salvation will determine our glorification and greatness in the age to come in the kingdom of God.

Carnality will not cost us our salvation if we don't let it degenerate into unbelief. But a christlike christian and a carnal christian will not have the same glorification and greatness in the kingdom of God. Carnality will cost believers dearly and make them suffer loss at the judgment seat of Christ.

This truth is made clear all through scriptures, I'm even shocked you're debating it and saying I'm the one with the veil.

And about the 1Cor 3. You didn't explain anything. You tried to make wood, hay and stubble to mean works of salvation that we will be rewarded for. That is wrong.

Wood, hay and stubble represent the works of the flesh or works done in the flesh. And believers who build on Christ with the works of the flesh or do the work of Christ in unchristlikeness will suffer loss at His judgment seat. And I proved that explanation with scriptures.

That is the correct interpretation of that verse. Not the works of salvation that you try to make it mean. Carnality and unchristlikeness will cost christians great measure of glory and greatness at the judgment seat of Christ. Anyone who denies that is the one with the veil on their eyes.

Shalom

promisechuks:

Pertaining to salvation and righteousness of God, no amount of right living can give earn it, that's why it's freely given. And you know what? You can't maintain it by works/right living. Your right living/righteousness CAN NEVER maintain what your righteousness couldn't earn . If you are controversial with this put forward any single bible verse to disprove it for proper analysis.


As regards to this verse, we have to explain it, not based on what we think, imagination and tendencies, but on the basis of the FULL knowledge of the one sure foundation provided by God, christ finished work.

There are differences between works of flesh, works of righteousness(self righteousness)and works of salvation. Works of salvation is simply know as our ACHIEVEMENT made by utilising the grace of God. Example; "you won 10000 soul to christ", "you helped 100 poor kids through scholarship", labouring abundantly to express God's love to people around you either by spreading the Gospel or any other grace-empowered way. Another example; Microsoft is accounted unto bill gate as a work of salvation because of the grace of God, if he believes, these works are not restricted to winning souls, no!


Another example: No man will remember kenneth hagin for his work of righteousness/right living, but for sure he will be remembered for his works of salvation which may include; his write-ups, books, video tapes, crusade events, the healing power of God demonstrated by him and many more. You got it?

More example? Yes! from the scriptures. 1cor.15vs10; but by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I LABOURED(work of salvation not works of righteousness/right living) MORE ABUNDANTLY THAN THEY ALL; yet not I but the grace of God which with me."

"......more abundantly than they all", you don't measure right living but you measure works of salvation because they are your achievement made recognisable before God by grace. In that statement paul used "more...than", because he was speaking in comparison to the works of other believers who had lesser works/achievement by grace than his works and achievements by grace.

With the understanding of what I have explained, read that 1cor.3:1-end to understand the full revelation there. Because the entire chapter is talking about works of salvation.


That chapter is an UNVEILING OF THE MYSTRIES BEHIND THE PARABLES OF THE TEN TALENT, because jesus would have said those things in the first place, but because they(jews) were too carnal, he spoke to them in parables. Remember, at a point he said something like "I have many things to tell you, but the problem is that you lack the power to comprehend it" and he started to talk about the spirit of truth that will be sent to help the church understand the revelation he will be bringing forth into the church through vessels like paul, peter, john e.t.c.


Now, according to the parable, we have been given the grace(talent) freely as a GIFT of righteousness(eternal life) to first of all, make us FREELY justified, with NO DEMAND of right living. If controversial, I challenge you to refute it with BIBILICAL verse and not imaginary thoughts or experiences for proper analysis.

And secondly, to empower us, not only to live rightly, but also to achieve greater achievement and works, either in soul winning or promoting the lives of people around us for the kingdom of God. These are main few purpose of grace(talent), especially for our justification, for us.


Now that verse you quoted 1cor.3:14-15 says;"14. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he SHALL RECEIVED A REWARD. 15.If any man's work shall be burned, HE SHALL SUFFER LOSS: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire."

Deduction: in vs 14;".....SHALL RECEIVE A REWARD"
Q&A: Reward for what? For right living? No! You don't build right living because right living cannot be seen as achievement. For works of salvation/achievements in grace? Yes! You build achievement in grace/works of salvation.

Q&A: What is the reward for our works of salvation as expressed in the above verse according to paul?

Now see this, we have gift and reward, this two things are totally different but confuse people a lot.
Gift is for free, no work. Reward is not for free, a work MUST be involved as the MERIT of the reward.

When you believe in christ, you are given a GIFT of eternal life(that grants you heaven), when you utilise the grace of God properly, to achieve your works of salvation for the kingdom of God, you are rewarded afterlife with, what the bible calls, a CROWN OF VICTORY.

Eternal life is a GIFT but crown of victory is a REWARD which is administered based on your accomplished works/achievements of a believer for the kingdom.


As regards to 1cor.3:15, SUFFERING LOSS, doesn't mean a denial of eternal life but a denial of crown(hope of glory). It's a loss because your works, not matter how many years you have been in the lord since you are unserious to labour for the kingdom works, will be considered vain. So paul was not talking about the sins of a believer that has being dealt with, forgiven and forgotten about at the cross heb.10:17.

At the judgement day, we, who believe(not just know, but really believe) in the finished work of christ, will not be judged of our faults, imperfection, sins and mistakes, because it was judged and condemned to death on the body of christ at the cross. And through that sacrifice, we have been made NON GUILTY OF THE SINS AND MISTAKES WE COMMITTED.

So, our judgement will be based on our works of salvation/achievement. The only kind of Judgement that will be passed on believers is the kind expressed in 1cor.3:1-end, and not judgement of sin, because we have been made innocent by christ's payment. There is no sense in judging an innocent man.


But in the case of unbelievers, they are judge of their sins, because they didn't accept the man that was judged and condemned to death for their sins, so they have to pay for their sins with their own life which is by death.


Let me stop here.

I have use all these lines before and preached it before too. So I know the root of this error.

Let me ask you, all the warnings of judgment Jesus gave to the churches in revelation if they don't repent, is it for works of salvation or for sinful lifestyle post-salvation?

Rev 2v5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 2v16 - Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Rev 2v22 -Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

You said Christians will not be judged for their sins, yet in all these verses Jesus kept talking to believers about what will happen if they do not repent of their sins and carnality. This is not reward for works of salvation as you're trying to make it look, but judgment against carnality.

If sins are automatically forgiven, should Jesus give this stern warning to unrepentant believers?

And I wrote this reply earlier, which you ignored.

ayoku777:
Did I tell you that salvation is by works, or that what we do right or wrong is what determines our righteousness.

You said all our sins, past, present and future have being paid for and forgiven by Christ. And I showed you statements made by Jesus Himself, outlining what will happen to believers who don't repent.

Does that not show you that there is no automatic forgiveness for sins we don't repent of? Or can someone suffer loss at the judgment seat of Christ for a sin that that has been "automatically" forgiven.

Salvation is by faith alone, and we don't lose it unless we depart from the faith. But even so, heaven takes our sins into account and if we don't repent of them, we will suffer loss for them in the judgment of Christ, even though it won't cost us salvation and eternal life, if we don't depart from the faith.

You are wrong that heaven does not take record of the sins of believers. The warning of Jesus to the churches in Revelation proved you wrong.

I'm not saying carnality can cost us our salvation. A carnal christian is called a "babe IN CHRIST" -meaning he is still in Christ. The only sin that can cost a believer his salvation is unbelief or departure from the faith.

But carnality has consequences in this age and in the age to come. Carnality will cost us our crown and demote us in the kingdom of God, among other losses. And if we let it degenerate into unbelief (departure from the faith), it will cost us our salvation too. It is a lie that all our sins are automatically forgiven and written off.

And about that 1Cor 3. You said that scripture is talking about the works of salvation or achievements. That's not true.

1Cor 3v12 - Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

What does it mean to build on Christ with wood, hay and stubble? Wood, hay and stubble refer to iniquity or carnality.

2Tim 2v19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

20  But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

21  If a man therefore purge himself from these (iniquities), he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Can you see from these verse? A vessel of wood and earth, is a vessel of dishonour, one who has not purged himself from iniquities and carnalities by growing in Christlikeness.

So going back to 1Cor 3v12; to build on Christ with wood, hay and stubble is to build on Christ in carnality, to do the work of Christ in unchristlikeness. Wood, hay and stubble represent the works of the flesh or works done in the flesh.

And scripture says those who build on Christ with wood, hay and stubble will have their works burnt at the judgment seat of Christ.

1Cor 3v15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Meaning believers who do the work of Christ in unchristlikeness will suffer loss at the judgment seat of Christ.

These shows clearly that our Christlikeness or unchristlikeness post-salvation will determine our reward or loss at the jugment seat of Christ. It is not just what we did that will be rewarded but the Christlikeness or carnality in which we did it.

Our Christlikeness does not determine our salvation, but it determines our reward in the age to come. We are not just called to have the life of Christ in our spirit, but also to have the lifestyle of Christ in our soul. Our success or failure in having the lifestyle of Christ determines our glorification in the age to come and our greatness in the kingdom of God.

We will be judged for our lifestyles too as believers and rewarded for our Christlikeness post-salvation. Heaven takes into record our lifestlye, and carnal believers will suffer loss at the judgment seat of Christ as Paul warned, and as Jesus warned the churches in revelation.

Shalom!

promisechuks:


First of all, you are trying to contradict the scripture with another. Hence, making people think that the scripture that was written by the inspiration of the holy spirit is confusing and contradicting. Whenever the holyspirit is giving revelation, he is always concise and not manipulating tendencies.

For you to understand the scripture, in accordance to the mind of God, you have to judge and view the whole scriptures using one language- Jesus, the one sure foundation, which is CHRIST'S FINISHED WORK

The reason why many christians have not seen and felt the gravity of christ's sacrifice is that, they try to judge christ's finished work with their own experiences, sins, problems and people's experience because the veil of moses is TOO MUCH on their eyes.

And that's why many of them are not sure whether they will later make heaven AT THE END. Because in there daily living words like; "many were call but few are chosen", "narrow is the way", "the first shall be the last" and many like words, subjecting them to fear, condemnation, sin-consciousness, self-relying(self-righteous) and finally doubt of their salvation, that's why in every minute of their life they ask for forgiveness because of the fear of death which takes them to judgement.

But why do these people doubt their salvation, trying to earn a gift(righteousness) that has been freely given even when you were not in christ?

When you try to earn or merit a gift, then it's no longer a gift to you but a reward.

Eternal life is a gift and not a reward!

Some pharisee-self righteous-christians think that eternal life is what will be given at the judgement day. NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

When you believe in the entire finished work of christ, you are given the GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS(eternal life/everlasting life). Not because you are doing the right thing but because you ONLY believe in christ finished work.

You may find it difficult to believe the previous paragraph, but if you do, I challenge you to bring up any verse in the NT that says; BELIEVE(faith)+LIVE RIGHTLY(works)=ETERNAL LIFE.

Am I saying we should not live rightly? No! My emphasis is that we should stop depending on our right living(works) to get justified before God, because the justification that we need before God has been done freely by Jesus. Rom3:24; "Being justified FREELY(not right living) by his grace through the redemption that is in christ jesus.

Did I tell you that salvation is by works, or that what we do right or wrong is what determines our righteousness.

You said all our sins, past, present and future have being paid for and forgiven by Christ. And I showed you statements made by Jesus Himself, outlining what will happen to believers who don't repent.

Does that not show you that there is no automatic forgiveness for sins we don't repent of? Or can someone suffer loss at the judgment seat of Christ for a sin that that has been "automatically" forgiven.

Salvation is by faith alone, and we don't lose it unless we depart from the faith. But even so, heaven takes our sins into account and if we don't repent of them, we will suffer loss for them in the judgment of Christ, even though it won't cost us salvation and eternal life, if we don't depart from the faith.

You are wrong that heaven does not take record of the sins of believers. The warning of Jesus to the churches in Revelation proved you wrong.

I'm not saying carnality can cost us our salvation. A carnal christian is called a "babe IN CHRIST" -meaning he is still in Christ. The only sin that can cost a believer his salvation is unbelief or departure from the faith.

But carnality has consequences in this age and in the age to come. Carnality will cost us our crown and demote us in the kingdom of God, among other losses. And if we let it degenerate into unbelief (departure from the faith), it will cost us our salvation too. It is a lie that all our sins are automatically forgiven and written off.

Shalom

promisechuks:
The problem with you pharisee-self righteous-holier than thou christians is that the veil of self righteousness(moses) is too much on your eyes that moses has blinded them in knowing the gravity, essence of christ's finished work(PAID).

That's why when they don't see this, they will start to frustrate jesus. These people say they follow jesus, but in the way they live are not following Jesus but moses. They ignorantly value moses(the dead man) more than jesus(the living). That's what happen when a believer is living with the notion that christianity is a religion. And knowing fully well, that all religion has laws except christianity which shouldn't be viewed as religion, they keep themselves in absolute bondage by living under "thou thou thou".



But ask yourself this question; why will God keep the record of the sins of a believer that was laid, dealt with, punished on christ at the cross, which he said he will remembered NO MORE? Why? because the penalty of those sin was paid by christ.

What is the essence of believing that christ is the ransom and the sacrifice of our sins?

If God, after punishing the sins of the whole world(past, present and future)on christ, will still punished a believer for the sins he committed, which he punished christ for. Then, how will you say that christ is the sacrifice for our sins? Sorry, if so then christ was not sacrificed but MUDERED

If heaven does not take account of our sinful works, why will some believers suffer loss for their sins at the judgment seat of Christ?

1Cor 3v14 -If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15  If any man's work shall be burned, HE SHALL SUFFER LOSS: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Can a christian suffer loss at the judgment seat of Christ for something heaven did not take account of or put in record against him?

If our sins are never taken into account and are automatically forgiven and written off by God whether we repent of them or not, will Jesus Himself say this to the churches?

Rev 2v5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 2v16 - Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Rev 2v22 -Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Christ Himself was the one talking here. These are all of His impending judgment upon believers who refuse to repent among the churches.

If sins are not taken into account by God or are automatically forgiven, would Jesus give all these stern warning to believers if they fail to repent?

All these proofs that our sins have consequences in this age and will make us suffer loss at the judgment seat of Christ if we don't repent.

Not every sin is unto death, but every sin is unto demotion. Carnal and sinful works are taken into account, and will be judged by Christ in this age and at His judgment seat. And some believers will suffer loss for their sins.

Shalom!

MizJanet:


Okay


But This is not a matter of what I think but what is written

Laughs**, if u advice us to use biblical meanings, what does God over all at eph, 6:4, mean,?

Eph 6v4 -And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

That's Eph 6v4. There's no "God over all" there. Unless you made a mistake in the verse you quoted.

Shalom

MizJanet:




All this twisting and whining doesn't appeal to commonsense , you said Jesus have a God this automatically means he can't be God over ALL (or don't you know God over ALL means supreme being? ) Something is wrong with ur Bible at Romans 9:5,


Am not surprised though

Let me give you this advice. Always use biblical language to interprete biblical words and sentences.

Look through the bible to get an idea of how a word was used in scripture to understand its true interpretation. Not your own opinion of what the word should mean.

When scripture uses the word "ALL", it always excludes and exempts the Father.

For instance, when scripture says;

ALL things were made by him (Jesus)... John 1v3

Does that "ALL" include the Father? Did Jesus make the Father too? Ofcourse not!

The Father begat the Son, so the Son didn't make the Father. The "ALL things" that Jesus made definitely excludes the Father.

Look at this also, when scriptures says;

1Cor 15v27 -For he (the Father) hath put all things under his (Jesus) feet. (Words in bracket mine)

When the Father put ALL things under Jesus' feet, did that include Himself? Did the Father put Himself under the feet of Jesus too? Ofcourse not!

The "ALL things" put under Jesus' feet excludes and exempts the Father. And the scriptures made that clear.

1Cor 15v27 -...But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that HE IS EXCEPTED which did put all things under him.

Can you see that?

So when scripture says, Jesus is God over all; that excludes the Father, who is the MostHigh God, and infact the God of Jesus Himself as I showed you earlier.

Jesus is God over all creation and created beings, because He created them all. But the Father is still His God.

Use biblical application and usage of words to interprete the meaning of biblical words and sentences. Not your opinion of what the word should mean. "God over ALL" excludes the Father, who is the MostHigh God.

Shalom

MizJanet:
This verse said Christ is God over ALL, . You know what that means?

"To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen." - Rom 9:5 ESV

Now, it's shocking to read the below verse contradicting Christ as God over all... How? Read this

"The head of Christ is God " 1Corint 11:3,


Its either Romans 9:5 quoted above lied, cos a God over ALL can never have a head/authority he is subjected to as seen here..

LOL, another Bible contradiction?

What is contradictory about the verses?

All it proves is that Jesus is God, but He also has a God -the Father. And the scriptures clearly attest to this.

See this;

Psalm 45v6 - Thy throne, O GOD, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, THY GOD, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Can you see this verses?

One God is anointing another God, and the God anointing is the God of the one being anointed.

The God being anointed is Christ (the anointed one); while the God anointing is the Father.

So Jesus is God but He also has a God -the Father. And Jesus Himself confirmed that.

John 20v17 -...but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend UNTO MY FATHER, and your Father; AND TO MY GOD, and your God.

Rev 3v12 -Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

So Jesus is God, but the Father is also His God.

When the scripture says "Jesus is God over all", that "all" is referring to creation and all created things. It doesn't include the Father.

See this;

1Cor 15v27 -For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted which did put all things under him.

The verses you quoted show that Jesus is God, but He also has a God -the Father. And that is made clear in many verses of the scriptures. No contradiction there.

Shalom

analice107:

Hello Ayo. Where have you been? Good to see you.

Thanks Analice, I'm very good. I've been very much around on NL, just as a reader lately though. Bet you're doing good yourself?

Shalom

plappville:
According to Matthew 27:3-6:

Matthew 27:3-6
3 When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. 4 “I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.”

“What is that to us?” they replied. “That’s your responsibility.”

5 So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.

6 The chief priests picked up the coins and said, “It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money.”



But Acts 1:15-20, gives a different and even grislier version of Judas’ demise. See it.

Acts 1:15-20
15 In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty) 16 and said, “Brothers and sisters,[a] the Scripture had to be fulfilled in which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus. 17 He was one of our number and shared in our ministry.”

18 (With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19 Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)

20 “For,” said Peter, “it is written in the Book of Psalms:

“‘May his place be deserted;
let there be no one to dwell in it,’
and,

“‘May another take his place of leadership.’


My question to brethrens in the house. Which account do we accept? When I was a kid I only know of the Matthew 's account. But how comes the two accounts are completely different. Bible scholars please help. Thank you in advance.

Matthew 27v5 -And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Acts 1v18 -Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

Judas was obviously hanging on the tree for about three to seven days. Because the jews would not go near or bury dead body during passover day, to unleavened bread day, to sabbath day.

By the fourth day, his hanging body must have become heavy enough to fall and bloated enough to burst open from the impact of falling.

And who knows, the jews might even had left the body there for eleven days, until the end of the eight day of the feast of unleavened bread. Since they considered a body hanging on a tree accursed of God.

So Matthew's account that Judas hung himself, and Act's account that he fell headlong and he burst asunder and his bowels gushed out; are not contradictory, they are complementary information of the same event.

Because that is what would happen, if his hanging body was left there on the tree for four to eleven days until bloated and decomposing.

The second issue that critics raise about the two accounts is that Matthew's account said Judas returned the money to the pharisees, while Acts' account claimed Judas used the money to buy a field.

Matthew 27v5 - And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Acts 1v18 - Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

But that's wrong assumption. Acts' account did not say Judas used the thirty pieces of silver to buy the field. What the bible said was;

Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; ...

"The reward of iniquity" here means proceeds from sin. It doesn't mean the thirty pieces of silver, it could mean the money he had been stealing from the ministry purse of Jesus.

Judas kept the ministry bag and he constantly stole from it.

John 13v29 For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor.

John 12v6 -This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

So again, Judas did return the thirty pieces of silver. The "reward of iniquity" (or proceeds from sin) that he bought a field with was from another source of ill-gotten wealth -most likely from stealing from ministry purse.

Although the pharisees eventually bought another field with the same thrity pieces of silver. But that was after Judas had died.

Matthew's account and Act's account are not contradictory but complimentary.

Shalom

sonmvayina:
I'm not saying God should answer all prayers, I'm asking why in the world he wouldn't answer this one. It came from Jesus, who according to mainstream Christianity, is God himself. So, if God prays a prayer to himself, for the express purpose of making the world know that he sent himself, why would God take that prayer from himself and not answer it?

And what makes you think God did not or has not answered the prayers of Jesus? Because it hasn't manifested yet?

Spiritual realities are different from physical realities. It takes faith and patient to convert spiritual realities into physical realities.

Hebrews 6v12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

God has already answered the prayers of Jesus and made the church one in Christ and in the Spirit. But the work of maturing the body of Christ into the physical reality of what He has made us will take a while. Just as it takes a born-again christian a while to mature and begin to act like who he has become in Spirit.

God told Abraham;

Gen 17v5 -Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations I HAVE MADE THEE.

God said He has made Abraham a father of many nations. He said; "has made" (past tense).

Yet it took Abraham one year after that to become, a father of a child. It took Abraham 500 years later to to become a father of a nation under Moses. And it took Abraham 1500 years later for him to become father of many nations in Christ.

But when did Abraham become "Father of many nations"? From the moment God said He has made him a father of many nations.

It takes a while for spiritual realities to become physical realities. But if God has said and done it, it is as much a reality as any other definition of reality can be.

The church will indeed be made one physically before Jesus returns.

Eph 4v13 -Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Christ is coming for a glorious church, and a glorious church He will meet when He comes.. The church will be presented to Christ as a glorious church. The Holy Spirit will make sure of that.

Eph 5v27 - That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

God does things spiritually first, in heavenly places,

Eph 1v3 -Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

... and then He makes them manifest physically. And mosttimes, the physical part has a process and takes a while.

Everything Jesus asked the Father has been done, and will be made manifest. The Father never says "No" to Jesus.

Shalom

johnydon22:
There is no way you can put this for it to work for you.. You have already jumped from "Change from Old law to new and adopt the new was the original plan that has to wait a bit for the old law to play for a while"

You just don't get it, do you?

I am showing you how that God substituting the old covenant for the new; and moving from the law to the new commandment, was always the plan.

It was never an after-thought or a change of mind, as you're trying so hard to say. Because the death and resurrection of Christ was fore-ordained ever before the dispensation of the law was even added.

So how can the new covenant be a "change of mind" for God, when that was always His mind?

Stop trying to make this an issue of semantics. God doesn't change. He changes systems and dispensations according to His redemption plan.

How large the font you use for "change" doesn't change the fact that the new covenant was never a change of mind for God.

urahara:


Pls where are his "seed"

Isaiah 53v10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand

The seed are the new creation in Christ Jesus. Those born again through faith in Christ.

Gal 3v29 - And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 9v8 -That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

So believers in Christ Jesus, those born of the Spirit; they are the seed.

urahara:


Brother why stop there read the chapter further it says this servant shall have his days prolonged and shall see his seed.

In the Bible isreal is referred to frequently as god's servant.


Every one is to be put to death for his own sin.
[Deuteronomy 24:16]

Ok, help me out then.

Who is the servant by whose stripes we are healed? That was wounded for our transgressions and bruised for our iniquities?

johnydon22:
[b] Hahaha now you want to change now? ...

it gets even more absurd.

The original plan of God was "Create faulty humans, then murder his son to correct it"

You see? it still reeks of imperfection...

Going by your childish last staggering clutch defence up there (Original plan stuff) the whole setting was actually just set by God.. He already planned to murder his son sometime for humans even before he created humans ... Haven't you just made God a psycho here?

The only reason God would have an original plan of Murdering his son to give humans salvation is because God absolutely doubt his ability to create perfect humans that wouldn't be faulty and then require to be saved.

So for the fact God made imperfect humans also spells something that allegedly is Perfect bringing forth Imperfect things.. That's unlikely the only way God can make imperfect humans is if he himself is imperfect.

Still can't get over the idea that God just purposely creates faulty humans just to carry out his plans of murdering his son to save them from the consequences of his own short comings.

You honestly have no idea how your logic murders God more.

Again The imperfection status sticks in... No matter how many ridiculous defence you conjure along the way you will always pose a contradicting and nonsensical concept. [/b]

Hmmmm! So help me God.

Are you just deliberately misunderstanding me?

Who is talking about the sin of Adam? I'm talking about God original plan of restoring fallen man.

God had no hand in the fall of man. He created an upright man, and gave him the freewill to obey or self-explore. Man's fall was all his own doing. Even though God foreknew it because He is all-knowing.

Now, God's own plan of restoring and redeeming man was always meant to be by Christ's death and resurrection. Not by the law of Moses.

The law served another purpose. Which ended when Jesus died and brought in the new covenant and new commandment. Which was always the original plan for man's redemption.

Get it?

And about your perfect imperfect theory. God does not want people who obey because they can't do otherwise. But people who obey because they choose to obey. And that takes freewill.

Stop putting the blame of what men choose to do with their freewill on God. God's perfection is not to rob men of their freewill.

Shalom

johnydon22:
Aaaah poor defence..lol
Before you "change" something, you must have first "changed" your mind about it..

I cannot jump from liking Orange to Apple without Changing my mind about Oranges in contrast to apples..

so MY preferences have changed, I have changed... So this is a poor defence.. A change occurs within us before we effect it...

So God cannot change something without first changing his mind about that something.. And since He has changed from HIS preferences of the two Options, obviously he has Changed..

You keep murdering God with punny defence and logic...

The idea of salvation by grace through faith in Christ's death was always the original plan. That's why the lamb of God was slain FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH.

The law was added by God to serve a pre-determined purpose. Nothing was an after-thought to God, or a change of mind.

Acts 15v18 - Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

urahara:


Where in the old testament does it say he was planning for salvation by grace

Isaiah 53v5 -5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all

This is one of many messianic prophecies that prove that, redemption from sin was always intended by God to be through Christ's substitutive death for us.

Infact the whole of the Isaiah chapter 53 is an answer to your question. And there are even others.

Shalom

johnydon22:
[b] Bulls eye you just arrived where he needed you... "Changed"… that was his point since..

"Change" is a mark of imperfection.. Something Perfect cannot and can never change because there is nothing it can change into, it is just precise, excellent.

Since surely enough you have shown that even God "Changed" on the occasions you listed above, this nullifies the claim of God being perfect and omnipotent plus omniscient.

A perfect being that is omniscient/potent would not need to change, not his utterances, not his charges because everything he says or does will be precisely right and therefore cannot need to be changed.

"Change" spells imperfection of the subject and the need to achieve better and the short coming comes from the imperfection of the human mind and this is because we don't know any better.

the only reason you will ever need to "Change" anything is that you have now found there is a better way to do it and the only reason you didn't use that better way in the first place is because you had no idea of that better way then.

If we already have a knowledge of a perfect computer, we already would have one... so imperfection also is roped in the certainty of our ignorance.

So since God now obviously is still a subject of this "Imperfection" and "Vulnerability" and show of "Ignorance" these qualities murders and nullifies the concepts of God perfection, omnipotent, omniscient...

You have done all the damage that needs to be done brother...

Cc. urahara
[/b]

You seriously are acting like a kid now.

If God changes a system, a constitution, is it God that changed or He changed something?

God never changes, but He changes things and people.

All the dispensations are progressive revelations of God to us, to help us know Him. Of which Christ Himself is the fulness of that revelation.

If you move your child from geometry to calculus, to differentials to physics, are you the one changing, or taking your child on a journey of knowledge to become more like you?

God never changes, but He changes dispensations and revelations, covenants and commandments to make us grow from glory to glory in Him.

Is that too hard?

urahara:


Stop dodging the question. Why did your God that never changes amend the laws

Because the law served a purpose. It was to bring men to the end of themselves.

The bible said, the lamb of God (Jesus) was slain from the foundation of the earth. Meaning salvation by grace was always God's original plan for man's redemption since the beginning.

It wasn't an after-thought, as if God discovered His law won't work, then He decided to opt for plan B. Absolutely not!

Please read the link I posted earlier

www.nairaland.com/2775627/purpose-law

It explains the purpose of the law.

Shalom

taurus25:


YOU ARE TRYING SO HARD TO RUN AWAY FROM MY STARTING POINT OF THE ARGUMENT

WHICH IS YOUR CONFUSED GOD DOES AMEND HIS LAWS

ALSO FYI THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF OTHER SILLY CONTRADICTIONS IN UR HOLY BOOK

SO PLEASE IN AN ARGUMENT FACE QUESTIONS HEAD ON

COME TO A LOGICAL CONCLUSION AND MOVE ON

Yes, God changed from ten commandments to Love commandment, from works to grace, from the law to the Spirit, and from the old covenant to the new.

What's your point?

taurus25:


THIS IS LAUGHABLE

YOUR ALMIGHTY GOD GIVES A LAW

YOUR ALMIGHTY GOD STATES THAT HIS LAWS SHOULD LAST FOREVER

YOUR ALMIGHTY GOD THEN COMES TO THEN COMES TO THE WORLD TO RENDER SOME HIS EVERLASTIG LAWS OBSOLETE

BRO, YOUR GOD IS VERY VERY CONFUSED

LET ME HELP YOU OUT

contradiction - /kɒntrəˈdɪkʃ(ə)n/
noun
1. a combination of statements, ideas, or features which are opposed to one another.

EG IF YOUR LORD GOD SAYS YOU ARE TO OBSERVE THIS LAW FOREVER

THEN YOUR LORD GOD COMES BACK AND SAYS STOP OBSERVING THAT LAW

YOUR LORD GOD HAS SUCCESSFULLY CONTRADICTED HIMSELF

Go back to the explanation I gave you earlier, of how Jesus Christ Himself is the personification and consummation of the law of God. Not the ten commandments or tablets of stones. That is what is forever.

You are beginning to recycle arguments.

taurus25:


I CAN SEE THAT THE IDEA OF YOUR DEAR BIBLE BEING FALLIBLE IS SOMETHING YOUR BRAIN CANT CONSIDER TO PONDER ON
INSTEAD OF LISTENING TO REASON YOU RESORT TO QUOTING ONE CHAPTER OR ANOTHER WHICH AT THE END OF THE DAY HAPPEN TO CONTRADICT IT SELF

AT THIS POINT ALL I CAN SAY IS EMPLOY REASONING!!

BECAUSE YOUR OLD COVENANT/NEW CONVENANT WHATEVER IS A SIMPLE CASE OF CHANGING HUMAN CREATED LAWS AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY FICTIONAL DEITY

i rest

You are arguing naively like a child. Let me try and lead you by the hand through scriptural interpretation.

Follow me.

Jesus told the rich young ruler that came to him;

Matthew 19v17 - ...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Then a day before He was to go to the cross, the same Jesus now told His disciples;

John 13v34 - A NEW COMMANDMENT I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Now what is the scriptural implication of calling something "NEW"?

This is it;

Hebrews 8v13 - By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

When God calls something "new" in scripture, it is because He has made the former "old" and obsolete. And what is obsolete is done away with.

God doesn't bring in the new commandment to run with the old. He brings in the new to replace the old.

Hebrews 10v9 -Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

So Jesus didn't contradict Himself between what He told the young ruler and what He told His disciples. He simply instituted a new commandment as He went to the cross to bring in the new covenant. A new commandment that made the former old.

That is not contradiction, it is change of spiritual constitution as He was about to usher in a new covenant through His death on the cross. Its like drafting a new constitution as you're about to change from a military regime to a democracy.

Do you get it now?

Shalom.

taurus25:


NOW JESUS CAME TO PUT AN END TO "THE LAW"

remember,

THE SAME JESUS SAID ALL THE LAWS ARE TO BE OBEYED

AT THIS POINT ANYONE WHO CANT SEE THE CLEAR CONTRADICTION HAS A BIG PROBLEM

OR LET ME ASK IS IT SEALED AGAIN

i rest

What do you understand about the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant? And the scriptural implication of calling something "new"?

Let's start with that.

taurus25:


LETS LEARN SOME ENGLISH

fulfil - /fʊlˈfɪl/
verb
1. achieve or realize (something desired, promised, or predicted).
2. carry out (a duty or role) as required, promised, or expected.

LET ME REPHRASE MY QUESTION

THE TEACHING ABOUT APOSTASY IN DEUTRONOMY 13
IS IT STILL VALID

BECAUSE FUFILMENT OF OT LAWS WAS JESUS' DUTY

You too learn from greek (the language the text was translated from).

Matthew 5v17 -Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to FULFIL.

The word "fulfil" there is the greek "pleroo"; which means to fill to the full, to bring something to its limit or endpoint, to consummate, to bring to pass or to an end.

Here are some other verses in the bible where the word "pleroo" was also used.

Luke 7v1 - Now when he had ENDED (pleroo) all his sayings in the audience of the people, he entered into Capernaum.

Acts 19v21 - After these things were ENDED (pleroo), Paul purposed in the spirit, when he had passed through Macedonia and Achaia, to go to Jerusalem, saying, After I have been there, I must also see Rome.

So you can see? Pleroo (fulfil) in greek means to bring to pass or to bring to an end.

So what Jesus actually meant is;

Matthew 5v17 -Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to pleroo (end).

So killing apostates is no more valid. Christ has ended that. The new commandment of love is the valid commandment now.

We are not talking about the dictionary meaning of "fulfil", I'm talking about the biblical application of the word "pleroo" used in the statement of Jesus for "fulfil". And it means "to bring to an end".

That's what Jesus meant by "fulfilling the law". He brought it to an end.

Romans 10v4 - For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Shalom.

taurus25:
VERY GOOD!

NOW GIVE ME A REASON WHY YOU AS A CHRISTAIN SHOULDNT PRACTISE APOSTASY AS INSTRUCTED IN DEUTRONOMY

Because Jesus Christ -the one who is the fulfilment and consummation of the law of God (Matt 5v17), and who God said we should hear (Matt 17v5), said;

John 13v34 - A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

The new LOVE commandment from Christ is the consummation of the old. The new has brought the old to pass (to an end)

So just has we no longer sacrifice animals because Jesus Christ the lamb of God has been sacrificed for us, we also no longer kill anyone for their sins because Jesus Christ has died for our sins.

Get it?

Shalom

ValentineMary:

God gave an old law to the jews and a new law to d christians, what does that imply to u? It could be that God had new ideas and had to CHANGE his old laws or God is completely confused. Make ur pick now.

Let me put it to you this way;

Its like a Professor of mathematics, teaching his son arithmetics. From, 1-2-3, to addition and subtraction, to multiplication and division, then to area and perimeter of different shapes, then angles of elevation and depression, and theorems to calculus and differentiation etc.

The Professor dad is not changing or growing in knowledge, but he is taking his child on a journey of knowledge that invlove changes and growth to help him become like him.

God doesn't change, but He changes things and people from glory to glory into His image.

2Cor 3v18 - But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

The law of God is a progressive revelation of Himself to us, of which Jesus Christ, is the consummation of that revelation.

So God moving us from the law to the Spirit, from works to grace, from ten commandments to love commandment, and from old covenant to new covenant does not mean God is changing. It only means He is taking us through changes from glory to glory in the revelation of Himself to make us like Him.

Do you get it now. I've simplified it as best as I can.

God bless.

taurus25:

SO JESUS CAME TO AMMEND LAWS THAT GOD GAVE TO MOSES
AND JESUS SAID ALL THE LAWS SHOULD BE OBEYED
AND ISIAH SAID THE LAWS OF GOD ARE MEANT TO STAND
FOREVER



THIS IS THE PROBLEM OF CONTRADICTIONS AND INCONSISTENCY
OF THE BIBLE
AN OMNISCIENT BEING SHOULD KNOW BETTER

You're partly right. But "amend" is not the right word. The word Jesus used is "fulfill". Jesus did not come to amend the law, He came to fulfill the law.

Matthew 5v17 -Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to FULFIL.

The word "fulfil" there is the greek "pleroo"; which means to fill up, to consummate, to bring to pass.

Meaning Jesus Christ Himself is the fulfilment and consummation of the Law of God. The law of God is more than a book or a tablet of stone, the fulness of the law of God is a person -Jesus Christ Himself.

God wants us to obey a person;

Matthew 17v5 -...This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

That was why Jesus rebuked the jews of His day, who thought they had the law of God because they owned books and scrolls and tablets of laws.

John 5v39 - (Ye) search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

40  And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Jesus Christ is the Living Word of God -the communication of the character of God and the consummation of the law of God.

So the law of God is indeed forever, if you know what or who the consummate law of God is.

Don't presume to call the scriptures contradictory when you don't even understand the language of the scriptures.

Its like a biologist saying a physicist is talking nonsense when he hears him teach about quantum mechanics and entanglement etc. What do you understand about his textbooks and his lab research?

That you don't understand chinese or swahili doesn't make it nonesense. That you don't understand the similitudes and symbolism of a sealed book, doesn't make it nonsense.

Isaiah 23v11 - For you this whole vision is nothing but words sealed in a scroll. And if you give the scroll to someone who can read, and say, “Read this, please,” they will answer, “I can’t; it is sealed.”

See that? You need more than literacy to understand a sealed book. Just because you can read english doesn't mean you can interprete the scriptures.

So don't presume to call the scriptures contradictory when you don't even understand the language of the scriptures.

God bless you

ValentineMary:

But I thought God does not change, are u trying to upgrade ur God to another version it is quite clear that God did not make humans in his own image and likeness but humans made God in their image and likness that is why Gods behave like the people that worship them. I would leave Johnny to deal with u.

Where did I say God changed in my post? Did you read it at all?

One thing about me is that when I write, I love to write and explain myself in lenght and with scriptures.

But I've found that, all that is waste of time with someone who is not willing to be objective, but assumes that whatever he doesn't understand must be because it is nonesense, and not because he is ignorant.

That is the arrogance that turns ignorance into self-delusion.

God does not change, but He changes things from glory to glory. There is the old and new creation, old and new covenant, new heaven and new earth. I can't belabour all these again.

If you want to understand the purpose of the law and the old covenant; read this:

www.nairaland.com/2775627/purpose-law

Shalom!

johnydon22:
Please tell us, is the old testament Yahweh different from the New testament Yahweh?

Questions keep being recycled.

Under the old covenant, before there was a redeemer, there were only two options of judgment vis-a-vis sin.

Its either for God to be merciless against sin, or for God to leave sin to be merciless against mankind -to wipe out mankind.

God choose to be merciless against sin, which consequently caught man in the crosshairs of God's judgment against sin. And that was the curse of the law.

Under the law, not only did man reap what they sowed in manifold harvests, the sins of the fathers were also visited on the children generations after.

That's why the language of judgment under the old testament was graphic. Because the only other alternative would have been for God to let sin perpetuate until mankind self-destructs.

It is only through a redeemer and a righteous substitute, that God can judge sin without destroying the sinner. And God eventually accomplished that through Jesus Christ.

It wasn't as if God was wicked under the law, then became kind under grace. No, God meted out just, unreserved judgment against sin under the old and the new covenant by letting man reap what they sowed. But under the new covenant, Jesus was our righteous subtitute. Jesus took our sins and the consequence and condemnation accrued to it, and gave us His righteousness.

Shalom!

hockeyoilers:
Deuteronomy chapter 13

6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.

So as you can see, the punishment of apostasy in Christianity is DEATH, and not only that, the one who tries to convert you is also to be put the death!!!! Note even whole cities are to be destroyed!!!!

What will Christians now say? Will they come up with the typical lie they always say when put in a hole that 'oh no we don’t have to follow the OT anymore'. That has become quite a famous line now, anyways, I would like the Christian to show me where this rule has been abrogated or told to not be followed. I HAVE NOT SEEN IT IN THE NT.

So it says keep the commandments, which included killing apostates and those who try to convert you, what did Jesus say? Keep the commandments, ALL OF THEM. Which includes this law of apostasy.

You've not seen because you keep refusing to see. Because I keep showing you.

Jesus Himself, when He was about going to the cross, said this;

John 13v34 - A NEW COMMANDMENT I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Can you see that?

Jesus has given us a new commandment, which is to love. Love is the new commandment to the believer in Christ.

And when God calls something "new", He has made the former old and obsolete.

Hebrews 8v13 - By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

See that? God doesn't bring in the new commandment to run with the old. He brings in the new to replace the old.

Look at all these verses

Hebrews 10v9 -Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 7v18 - The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (through the flesh).

Ephesians 2v15 - He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in himself one new people from the two groups.

I keep telling you that Judaism is different from Christianity. Christianity is the spiritual reality of what was shadow rituals in Judaism.

The pre-grace and pre-calvary era, where judgment was stronger than mercy is different from the dispensation of grace we are now, where mercy triumphs over judgment through Jesus our advocate.

Hebrews 10v28 - He that despised Moses' law DIED WITHOUT MERCY under two or three witnesses:

But now under grace through Jesus;

...Mercy triumphs over judgment (James 2v13).

I keep explaining this to you with verses. But you will run away from that thread and come to another to continue the same rant that has already been explained to you.

Its one thing to be ignorant, its another to combine ignorance with arrogance. When you do that, it becomes self-delusion. Don't turn ignorance to self-delusion.

God bless you.

hockeyoilers:
1 Samuel 15:3,8

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' " … He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword.

--

You claim Jesus pbuh is God, wow prince of peace eh

Under the old covenant, before Jesus Christ died for our sins and brought grace and truth, mankind was torn between being destroyed completely by sin or God being merciless against sin.

God chose to be merciless with sin; something that caught men in the crosshairs of God's merciless judgment against sin -in the absence of a redeemer.

That's why the language of judgment under the old covenant was very graphic. Not only did men reap what they sowed in manifolds, the sins of the fathers were also visited on the children, generations after the parents.

But now we have a redeemer -Jesus Christ the righteous, who died for our sins and rose for our justification. And is right now in heaven as our high priest, intercessor and advocate before the Father.

So unlike the old covenant where judgment was stronger than mercy, now through Christ, mercy triumphs over judgment (James 2v13).

But ultimately, at the end of the age, God will still eventually judge all those who reject the offer of His grace and salvation presented in Jesus Christ.

So the graphic language and nature of judgment under the old covenant was because in the absence of a saviour and redeemer, divine justice was torn between being merciless against sin or letting sin wipeout mankind.

That's like being caught between a rock and a hard place -and God choose the rock. But there is a saviour, redeemer and Messiah now.

All these things are clear to see in scripture, if you're not too busy deliberately twisting and misintepreting the words of Christ and quoting old testament texts out of covenant-context.

You problem is, you so badly want to put Jesus and Mohammed on the same level, so as to appease your conscience about Mohammed's atrocities. But even a blind person can see that the moral, righteousness, holiness, love and perfection shoes of Jesus Christ are too big for Mohammed's legs, for even his entire body.

Shalom!