seemples:
@Ayoku777 welcome back

Thank you. How have you been too?

Alcohol is not a sin in scripture, getting drunk is what scripture rebukes.

Ephesians 5:18
[18] And BE NOT DRUNK with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

So alcohol is not a sin. Even the wine that was used by the early church for Holy communion was an alcoholic wine

1 Corinthians 11:20-21
[20]When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

[21]For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

Paul was rebuking some of the Corinthian believers for getting drunk on the communion wine. You can't get drunk on wine that is not alcoholic. So the Holy communion wine they used was alcoholic.

Shalom

Lilisticlili:
As a christain knowing the bible says "suffer not a witch to live"

What will you do?
1.Pray for her to die?
2. Kill her your self?
3. You don't dare take her to police,how can you prove It?
4. You don't dare expose her to your village because of jungle justice.
5. If are you going to live her to repent? What if she doesn't? What happens to the judgment from the bible. (God)


Share your sensible opinions pls incase if your mother confesses tomorrow.

Cc: lalasticlala fynestboy

As Christians we no longer kill witches; if they repent, we simply lead them to Christ and deliver them from the demonic stronghold through the power of God. As Phillip did for Simon the sorcerer.

Acts 8:9,13
[9]But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:

[13]Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

And for the ones that don't repent, we can still neutralize their power and influence through the power of the Holy Spirit, just like Paul did to Elymas the sorcerer.

Acts 13:8-9
[8] But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.

[9] Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,

Paul rebuked Elymas in the name of Jesus and neutralized his influence over the governor.

Paul did same thing to the possessed damsel in Philippi

Acts 16:16,18
[16] And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

[18]And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

Paul cast out the demon out of her.

No witch, sorcerer or soothsayer was killed by the apostles under the New covenant, they were either led to Christ or had their power and influence neutralized by prayers.

That is the example we should follow as Christians. Jesus has given us authority over all the powers of the enemy and nothing shall by any means hurt us.

Luke 10:19
[19]Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Killing witches is not the Christian way. Leading them to Christ and delivering them if they repent or neutralizing their power through prayers if they don't repent is the Christian way.

Shalom

CatfishBilly:
How old was Adam when God created him?

A simple question.
Let's all have a civil discussion, please.

How old a man is is relative to how long ago he came into existence. So Adam was a second old, a second after God created him and brought him to life. He was a day old, a day after God created him, and he was a year old, a year after God created him.

I believe what you meant to ask is how old did Adam look BODILY immediately after God created him and brought him to life?

There is no scripture that categorically answers that question. But I always answer that question by using the age of Jesus Christ when he rose from the dead, since Jesus is the last Adam.

According to the scriptures, Jesus is the last Adam and the firstborn of the new creation, just like Adam is the firstborn of the first creation.

1Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam (Jesus) was made a quickening spirit.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the FIRSTBORN among many brethren (new creation).

Jesus Christ is the last Adam and He was 33 years old when He rose from the dead and became the firstborn of the new creation. So I do relative comparison and conclude that the first Adam was also 33 years old (bodily) when God brought him to life and made him the first born of the first creation.

So my assumption is Adam was 33 years old in bodily form at the point of his creation. Same age as the last Adam (Jesus Christ) at the point of his resurrection.

Shalom

lonikit:



let me start with the issue of Isaac. do u knw that Abraham had already had his own will regarding where to marry for his son?
do u knw in some cases God can support ur own will for u like in the case of Saul the king.

u said Isaac was the only one who had no concubine. do u knw Joseph married an Egyptian and never had concubine, his children even had their own inheritance. can u tell me the concubine of moses after he married from Africa.

do u knw that Rebecca had problem of bareness for good 20yrs. do u knw that this same Rebecca scattered her home. and she never lived to eat the fruit of her labour. with the above points, I think Rebecca was a permissive will.
and finally can u interprete this portion for me

1 Corinthians 7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

You asked a question that does God match-make, and I answered you that yes, He does, if we ask and give Him the permission to. And I showed you in the scriptures where His help in matchmaking was sought and he obliged.

So that is settled.

Then secondly I never said Isaac was the only one that didn't have a concubine or mistress in the Bible, I said among the patriarchs and kings of Israel.

But let's not digress, truth is even people that God match-makes can still have issues in marriage if they stop being Christlike. So being match-made by God doesn't still make your marriage storm-proof. So let's stick to the question that does God match-make, which is yes.

Then as for that scripture you quoted. Your interpretation is greatly flawed .

Corinthians 7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

This is NEVER a licence to marry an unbeliever. According to the scriptures a christian is not permitted to be joined to someone who is not in Christ.

2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel (or unbeliever)?

According to the scriptures anyone who doesn't believe that Jesus is the Christ is an Antichrist.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Someone with the Spirit of Christ and someone with the spirit of the Antichrist should never be joined together in Holy matrimony. That is why the scriptures said a believer should only marry someone in the Lord.

1Cor 7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; ONLY IN THE LORD.

In the light of these many verses, the scenario of the scripture you quoted is only applicable if two people married as unbelievers and one of them later became born again and converted to Christianity, if the other partner is willing to still stay married to the convert without making serving God impossible for him or her, they should stay together. Who knows, the other partner too might later be converted.

Corinthians 7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

16For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

This is what this verse means. Not that a believer can open his eyes and decide to marry an unbeliever, someone with the spirit of the Antichrist.

Shalom

lonikit:
marriage has become a very big issue in the christiandom. different pastors have preached, written books, organized seminars on marriage. most have concluded that GOd actually match make judging by the case of Adam and eve. but somebody argued that GOd stops matchmaking since Adam blamed God that he was deceived by eve whom God gave him. also in the preaching of Paul on marriage which many pastors will always avoid during marriage messages, Paul sees love as the major perequisite. also in psalms, he who findeth... etc. my one million questions are:
1. if God is a matchmaker, what is the essence of genotype test which is mandatory in most Pentecostal churches, is civilization more than God.
2. why is it that dere is always an alternative if the partner breakup before the marriage
3. why is it that some persons will claim that they find it difficult to love the person they see through revelation.
4. is marriage compulsory??
, if yes, why is it that most people that God used in the bible like Elijah,john,Ezekiel,Isaiah,Elisha, Paul etc did not marry.
if no, then, in my opinion, God doesn't match make.

pls mod, help forward it so as to gather opinions.

God does match make if we give Him the permission to do so.

The general biblical injunction for believers is to make sure that you marry someone also in the Lord

1Cor 7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; ONLY IN THE LORD.

A christian is at liberty to marry another christian. That is the general rule.

But you must know that there are also carnal christians in the Lord, there are spiritual christians not compatible with your calling and destiny also in the Lord. Then even among the many christian suitors who are spiritual and may also be compatible with your calling, there would be one that the Lord would appoint and ask you to go for if you ask Him.

That was exactly what Abraham's servant did when he went to look for a wife for Isaac.

Abraham's instruction to him was to make sure he picks a wife from the City of Nahor, and not from among the Canaanite women.

Gen 24:4 But thou shalt go unto my country, and to my kindred, and take a wife unto my son Isaac.

Gen 24:38 But thou shalt go unto my father's house, and to my kindred, and take a wife unto my son.

So if the servant had just gone to the City of Nahor and wooed any lady for his Master's son, he still would have been well within the boundaries of the instructions he was given. But he didn't want to leave it at that. He asked God to appoint for him, and God did.

Gen 24:12 And he said, O LORD God of my master Abraham, I pray thee, send me good speed this day, and shew kindness unto my master Abraham.

14 And let it come to pass, that the damsel to whom I shall say, Let down thy pitcher, I pray thee, that I may drink; and she shall say, Drink, and I will give thy camels drink also: let the same be she THAT THOU HAST APPOINTED FOR THY SERVANT ISAAC; and thereby shall I know that thou hast shewed kindness unto my master.

Gen 24:44 And she say to me, Both drink thou, and I will also draw for thy camels: let the same be THE WOMAN WHOM THE LORD HATH APPOINTED OUT FOR MY MASTER'S SON.

Abraham's servant asked God for she whom God would appoint for Isaac among all the ladies in the City of Nahor, and the Lord answered and appointed Rebecca.

So while the general instruction of the Bible is for a christian to marry someone in the Lord (someone from our Father's house), and you will not be breaking any law if you do just that; If you ask the Lord to appoint for you, and do the matchmaking Himself, He will surely answer and be happy to do so, as He did for Isaac.

And it would be worthy of note, that among the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) and all the kings of Israel; Isaac, the only person God appointed and match-made a wife for, was the only one who did not practise polygamy or have a concubine or mistress. All the others had.

That should make a good point towards letting God appoint for you, even though you would not be breaking any law if you choose for yourself someone in the Lord.

So yes, God can match-make if you ask Him and give Him the permission to do so. And we should.

Shalom

I think this one is the first. I read about it since last year

https://buzznigeria.com/toothpick-factory-established-ondo/

Peacefullove:
Thanks for this, You know if we are to take that translation As I quoted at Op, am definitely right to ask such questions.

Now The actual meaning is Gehenna not hell, is that not a fraudulent translation then?

Gehenna and Hades are both translated hell in the Bible, but they refer to two different specific places.

The greek language has a lot more synonyms than the English language. So there is a great difficulty in coming up with new words to describe different greek terms.

That's why to really study the Bible, you might need to use concordance and other Hebrew and Greek manuals to see the way the words were crafted in the original manuscript.

Peacefullove:
Sorry, comparing the blue with that Bible portion contradicts, If u said the souls of the dead go to Hades after death , Does Rev 20 vs 13 not refute it by indicating those who died in the sea are not in Hades ?

This kind of confusion only exists if you are trying to read the book of revelation as a scientific book instead of as a poetic and prophetic book.

When the passage said the sea gave up the dead, in context, it means it is not just those that were interred in a burial site that will be raised back to life, but even those lost at sea or eaten.

The soul of every person in hades will be resurrected into a physical body. It doesn't matter how they died or what happened to their bodies after they died, whether it was interred and buried or lost at sea.

Peacefullove:
@ italics, Even the Hades is described as home to physical bodies. Check another Jesus statement in Luke 16 , The rich man in Hades has eyes , tongues and drinks water . physical properties ., how do u reconcile this ?

In the Bible; words like eyes, mouth, ears, finger, foot, hand, head etc are not exclusive to physical bodies alone. There is also such a thing as spiritual bodies.

1Cor 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and THERE IS A SPIRITUAL BODY.

God is a spirit according to Jesus.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

And still God is described with all these features as well.

* The eyes of the Lord - 2Chr 16:9
* The arm of the Lord - Isaiah 51:9
* The ears of the Lord - Numbers 14:28
* The finger of God - Luke 11:20

Etc...

So according to scriptures, spirits have these parts too. We humans are made in the image of God remember.

So yes spirits in hades can have these parts too, those parts are not exclusive to physical bodies.

Peacefullove:
Sorry sir , How is Gehenna related to Lake of fire .. I read online just now that Gehenna is the valley of hinnom in Jesus day . and its dead animals and corpse/carcasses that are thrown there not Live torture

I expect that if they are parallel, items thrown into Gehenna should burn forever till today as hell theory suggests but thats not the case , this are gaps that need to be filled.

In the Bible literal places are used to describe or define spiritual realities.

Babylon is a literal city, but it was also used in the book of revelation as the name of the kingdom of the devil. Egypt is also a literal nation, but it was also used to define the world or the world system. There was also a literal place called Gehenna but it was used by Jesus to define or term the lake of fire.

Ofcourse the comparison can never be exact or perfect. There is nothing in this life you can use that will be an exact comparison of what the lake of fire would look like. But Jesus used Gehenna to define the lake of fire.

And finally, you need to understand that the Bible was written for the most part by prophets and poets, that's why a lot of it's revelations are prophetic or poetic in expression. Trying to get overly scientific with the way you analyse the scriptures will get you at crossroads with the truth in it.

That's why they always say the Bible is it's own interpretation. Just as you need to know how a poet writes for you to vaguely understand the meaning of the symbols in his writing, you need to understand the language of the scripture to understand it's application in various context.

Shalom

Peacefullove:
Countless times, have heard Christian televangelist and their various adherents Scream on top of their voices the words of Mark 9:43 to force and scare u to convert to the mainstream Christianity. ONLY if you listen to the silent voices beneath the said verse .

it reads

"And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire." - Mark 9 vs 43 . only few people would see the silent voice in this verse right now, do you ?

One thing is certain, You no doubt see hell and unquenchable fire . thats all you are concerned about . Kindly listen again.

" And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. "

Now read the bold again and again , Your two hands with which u are scrolling this page would also follow a man to Hell , Am I missing something ? Pls how many dead people have we seen died and their Two hands disappeared into Hell ? answer please . Note that the above verse said man will go into Hell with his Two Hands , haba!

if no one has actually go to this hell with their two hands, Is Jesus Lying ?

Have you taken time to study that verse very well before forming an opinion? There is a difference between reading the Bible and studying the Bible.

Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into HELL (gehenna), into the fire that never shall be quenched:

The word translated hell in that verse is the Greek word "gehenna". Gehenna is different from Hades.

We don't go to Hades with our physical bodies, people who die go to Hades with their souls and spirits.

Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my SOUL IN HELL (Hades), neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Hades is where the souls of the dead go after death.

But Gehenna on the other hand refers to the lake of fire. These is where the unbelievers will end up after they resurrect into their physical bodies.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell (Hades) delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE.

Can you see from these verses?

The dead will be raised out of hades, and resurrected back into their physical bodies. And after judgment, they will be cast spirit, soul and body into the lake of fire which is Gehenna.

So yes, people will go to the lake of fire with their spirit, soul and body. Unlike Hades which only the soul goes to.

Jesus did not lie. I'm sure you made this honest mistake because you didn't study the verses well to understand that there is a scriptural difference between Hades and Gehenna.

Shalom

gbaskiboy:
'God wants you to be rich- car in your garage, a prosperous business. Just, believe in him, open your wallet, give him everything you can'. It is common to hear such message from so called many pastors, and people flock to churches that promise material blessings from God and yet many still remain poor. But does God really promise riches to those that serve him? pls need candid answer

Yes He did.

2Cor 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty MIGHT BE RICH.

So the same way Jesus was made sin so that we might be made the righteousness of God (2Cor 5:21), is the same way He was made poor that we might be rich.

Then Jesus Himself said;

Luke 18:29 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,

30 Who shall not receive manifold more IN THIS PRESENT TIME, and in the world to come life everlasting.

Jesus said, for everything we turn our backs on in this world to follow Him, He will give us hundred fold of it -not when we get to heaven, but in this present time.

Then this;

Phi 4:19 But my God shall SUPPLY all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

The verse didn't say God will meet all our needs. It said God will SUPPLY all our needs. The word used for supply in that verse is the Greek "pleroo"; and it means to furnish liberally, to fill to the brim (till there's no space for more), to cause to abound.

This was the way Jesus provided fish for Peter in Luke 5, fish and bread for the four and five thousand. And He is the same yesterday today and forever.

So yes, God promised us not just prosperity but abundance. So that we might abound unto every good work.

2Cor 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.

12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;

Shalom

blueAgent:



Doesn't 2 Corinthians 3:7 teach that the law
written and engraved in stone "was to be done
away"?
No. The passage says that the "glory" of Moses'
ministration of the law was to be done away, but not the law. Read the whole passage of 2
Corinthians 3:3-9 again, carefully. The subject is not the doing away with the law or its
establishment, but rather, the change of the
location of the law from "tables of stone" to the "tables of the heart." Under Moses' ministration the law was on stones. Under the Holy Spirit's ministration, through Christ, the law is written upon the heart (Hebrews 8:10). A rule posted on a school bulletin board becomes effective only when it enters a student's heart. Christ's ministration of the law is effective because He transfers the law to the heart of the Christian. Then keeping the law becomes a delight and a joyful way of living because the Christian has true love for both God and man.
6. Romans 10:4 says that "Christ is the end of
the law." So it has ended, hasn't it?
"End" in this verse means purpose or object, as it does in James 5:11. The meaning is clear. To lead men to Christ--where they find righteousness--is the goal, purpose, or end of the law.

I don't know whether you made a honest mistake with your interpretation of that Romans 10:4 or you deliberately twisted it's meaning to suit what you want to say.

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

The greek word translated "end" in that verse is the word /telos/ - and it means "Termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be, the end of some act or state, that by which a thing is finished, it's close."

It doesn't mean "goal or purpose" as you tried to make it mean.

Let me show you other places in scripture where telos was also used and you will see the consistency in it's scriptural usage.

Luke 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no END (telos).

Does this verse say the kingdom of Christ shall have no goal and purpose? Or it shall have no termination or cessation?

Another verse where telos was used;

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the END (telos) come.

Does telos in this verse mean the goal or purpose of the age shall come? Or the close or cessation of the age shall come?

Telos means termination, cessation or close of something.

Romans 10:4 Means Jesus is the termination, cessation and end of the law.

I can go on and on and quote many more verses, but my thumbs are beginning to ache me, and besides all the plenty verses I've used to make my arguments have not changed anything; which tells me this is a heart issue for you, not that you haven't seen enough verses to change your mind.

I mean, how can anyone in good conscience read a verse like Ephesians 2:15 and still argue that the law and the ten commandments have not been abolished.

Eph 2:15 Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Eph 2:15 HE RENDERED THE LAW INOPERATIVE, ALONG WITH ITS COMMANDMENTS and regulations, thus creating in himself one new humanity from the two, thereby making peace,

How can this verse mean any other thing other than the obvious interpretation? Hmmm

My thumbs are aching abeg.

Shalom.

Why do some people have this idea that once we say that the ten commandments have been abolished and done away with, we automatically mean it is now okay to kill, lie, commit adultery etc?

We need to realize that thousands of years before the ten commandments came on the scene, people have been walking with God, pleasing Him and obtaining a good report from Him.

Enoch walked with God and pleased God so much he was translated out of this world without seeing death, about 2000 years before the ten commandments.

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that HE PLEASED GOD.

Noah walked with God, and he had a good testimony from God Himself that he was righteous in his generation, 1500 years before the ten commandments.

Gen 7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen RIGHTEOUS BEFORE ME in this generation.

Abraham walked God to the point that he became a friend of God according to the scriptures, 700 years before the ten commandments.

James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Joseph also walked with God and he eschewed evil. He knew fornication was a great wickedness against God and fled from it, 400 years before the ten commandments.

Gen 39:9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?

How were all these people able to walk with God and please Him when they lived thousands and hundreds of years before the ten commandments? How were they able to obtain a good report from God and from the scriptures without any need of the ten commandments?

I know how. Scripture tells us how.

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

See that? They were all able to walk with God and obtain a good report from Him, without any need for the ten commandments - THROUGH FAITH!

Faith which the bible says "worketh by love."

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

If Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Joseph etc, were all able to walk with God, please Him and obtain a good report from Him, without any need for a ten commandments, but with just the faith that worketh by love, how much more can we believers, do the same and more.

Especially now that we have something better than they had then now as new creation - the new birth, the gift of righteousness and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit - who sheds abroad in our hearts the love of God.

Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

The ten commandments have indeed been abolished and done away with by Christ.

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

2Cor 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

We no longer need it as new creations to walk with God and please Him, anymore than Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Joseph needed the ten commandments to walk with God and obtain a good report from Him.

All we need now is faith in Christ that imputes to us the gift of righteousness, and the Holy Spirit that sheds abroad in our hearts the love of God.

With that we will love God and love men like God -without the ten commandments.

Shalom.

Splinz:


You keep on recycling the same thing over and over again, interpreting them as it suits you. Have you bothered to ask why I've not gone indept into Paul's writings yet? I'm simply letting you to wallow in your ignorance- twisting these things to your hurt, like apostle Peter said.

Oh! You've even admitted now that Christians are commandment keepers? Wow... that's a nice step. But which commandment did you say Christians keeps- love

Look up, I've already discussed love with our friend. Jesus gave no new law, He was simply magnifying the Ten Commandment which is divided into two, the first four teaches man how to love God and the six, how to love fellow man. So according to Scriptures, love is the keeping of the Commandments!

If love and the ten commandments are the same thing, Jesus would not call love "A new commandment".

John 13:34 A NEW COMMANDMENT I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

You don't call something new when it is a continuation of the old or the former.

When God calls one new, it is because He has made the former old and obsolete.

Hebrews 8v13 - By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

God does not bring in the new to run with the old, He brings in the new to replace the former.

Hebrews 10v9 -Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 7v18 - The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless.

Ephesians 2v15 - He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in himself one new people from the two groups.

Love is the new commandment. It is not a continuation of the ten commandments but a superior replacement.

The Love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit and we walk in it by being filled and led of the Spirit -not by keeping the ten commandments.

Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Shalom

Splinz:


Oh, you now know that this is not how to knock down an argument? But what exactly have you lot been doing?

Yes! I intentionally ignored your cheery-picking since you lot are trying to be smart by half. And note, I said I'd be willing to harmonize these Scriptures once he's ready to harmonize them. You can't cheery-picked what seems to support your arguments at the expense of other truths!

The same Paul you've been quoting expressly says: "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law". Here, Paul is saying that the law is intact, but you, no; the law is abolished. You claimed (yes, you. Paul never said the LAW has been abolished) the law has been nullified, but Paul is saying contrarily. The question you should be asking yourself is: How can Paul uphold [interestingly enough, the dictionary definition of the word uphold is: confirm or support (something which has been questioned)] what is supposedly nullified (according to you)?

Until you agree that your nullification of the LAW is not in harmony with other Scriptural truths, I'd not reconcile your stumbling blocks.

PS: Did you also see how the Living Jesus Christ through His revelation to John, confirms that true Christians are commandment keepers, and because of this, Satan wages war against them

I asked you a simple question to reconcile three verses, you returned the question to me. That is a classic deflective method. Simply saying you don't know would have sufficed.

I understand your dilemma though. You are being shown many scriptures that show that the ten commandments have been abolished and done away with. Scriptures so direct and explicit, there is no way to give them another interpretation.

All you could do was quote another verse that you think contradicts the ones you've been shown.

Let me explain that verse for you;

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Paul is asking that, do we now void or make useless the law because of faith? He said no, we establish the law.

Question now is, How do we establish what is clearly stated in scripture that Christ has abolished and done away with?

Simple! By allowing the law to do what it was given to do in the first place. And what is that?

The law is the knowledge of sin and the revelation of guilt.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The purpose of the law was to shut men up, bring them to the end of their self-righteousness, give them a knowledge of their sin and their need for a Savior and then introduce them to God's Savior Jesus Christ.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

This means that the way the law is establish is not by keeping it but by using it to give unbelievers the knowledge of their sin and their need for a Savior in Jesus Christ.

Meaning the law is indeed not useless or void, but it is not for the believer in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

1Tim1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man,

So that is how we establish the law, when it is used to give unbelievers the knowledge of sin and the revelation of their guilt and their need for a Savior in Jesus.

But to the new creation, the ten commandments have been abolished and done away with by Christ.

Then the other verse you quoted;

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

You said this verse proves that christians are commandments keepers.

Ofcourse, Christians are commandment keepers.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Question is which commandment? It is not the ten commandments, because according to the scriptures, the ten commandments have been abolished and done away with by Christ.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

The commandment the new creation keeps is the Love commandment not the ten commandments. The love commandment that is kept by being filled and led of the Spirit.

So none of the scriptures you're arguing with means or implies the ten commandments have not been abolished or should still be kept by believers. The word of God is one and without contradictions.

Shalom

Splinz:
I have been telling you to know who you're dealing with here. Do not think you can cheery-picked Scriptures and terribly twist them to suit your preconceived ideas, and hope that I'd be a part of it. From my own background, all Scriptures must be in congruence.

Looking at Romans 3 down, one may be tempted to think that Paul is condemning and ruling out the LAW entirely. But just at the end of this chapter, he drops the bombshell: "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law". Here, two words stood out: NULLIFY AND UPHOLD. Paul said he is not nullifying the law but rather upholding it. Is it really that difficult to understand? Are you sincerely ignorance of these things or simply being mischievous?

Up there, you have rendered the teachings of Jesus null and void, ridiculously claiming He taught those things while He was under the Old dispensation (I wish I could laugh off this naivety. But no, it's really heartbreaking). To you, all what He taught then was only active for as long as He was on earth. Having died, He nullified those things, of course, this understanding is only according to what is in your head. This is because the same Jesus you claimed did away with His holy, righteous and good LAW, in His revelation to apostle John further uphold as did Paul and other faithfuls that indeed, true Christians are commandment keepers. Here: "Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus" (Rev. 12:17).

Hmm. When you are ready to tie up Paul's hard sayings together harmoniously, call my attention. Till then, I can only sit back and watch you twist these things to your own destruction.

cc: Goshen360.

You claim Goshen is cherry-picking but you are doing exactly what you are accusing him of.

You ignored all the verses and scriptures he quoted that explicitly stated that the law has been abolished and done away with , and you simply quoted the one that you think supported your argument.

That is not how to knock down an argument. That only presumes you're saying the scriptures are contradictory. Which is not true.

Let me do this.

I want you to reconcile these verses;

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

And this;

2Cor 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

And this;

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The first scripture said Jesus Christ has abolished the Law of commandments which is the ten commandments.

The second scripture said the ministration of death, written and engraved in stones (which can only be the ten commandments) has been done away with.

And the third scripture, which you used said we don't make the Law void through faith, but we establish the law.

Can you reconcile these three verses? If truly the word of God is one and without contradictions, how are these three verses saying the same thing?

In other words, how do we establish what Christ has abolished and done away with?

Shalom

analice107:
Thank you.
And the Part which was fulfilled has to do with the sacrificial laws, which concerns atonement for sins by shedding the blood of an animal in the place of Man's sins.

Jesus became that lamb. But what about the moral laws, do they also needs be fulfilled?


The only part of the law fulfilled, is the part that concerns sins

That's not true, the ten commandments too were done away with.

Read this;

2Cor 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

Question! Which part of the law was written and engraved in stones? The ceremonial laws or the ten commandments? Of course, it's the ten commandments.

So according to this scripture, the ten commandments is the ministration of death and it was to be done away with. And it has been done away with.

2Cor 3:11 For if THAT WHICH IS DONE AWAY was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

The ministration of death, written and engraved in stones (the ten commandments) has been done away with -according to the scriptures.

This scripture should be enough. But for emphasis let me use the witness of another scripture.

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

According to these scriptures, we are dead to the law and we delivered from the law.

Question! Which law are we dead to and delivered from? The ceremonial laws or the ten commandments? Which law was the writer referring to?

The next verse (verse 7) answers that question.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

The law that the writer is talking about in this chapter is the law under which we have "Thou shalt not covet."

Under which law do we have "Thou shalt not covet."? Under the ceremonial laws or the ten commandments? Of course, the ten commandments.

So according to the scriptures again, the laws we are now dead to and no more under includes the ten commandments. Jesus delivered us from both ceremonial and the ten.

Infact when the scriptures talk about the Law under the new covenant, it is referring to both the ceremonial laws and the ten commandments.

Eph 2:15 Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

ISV puts it more explicitly;

Eph 2:15 He rendered the Law inoperative, ALONG WITH ITS COMMANDMENTS AND REGULATIONS, thus creating in himself one new humanity from the two, thereby making peace,

You see. Both the ceremonial laws and the ten commandments were done away with.

If you are still having difficulty grasping the conflict between the Law and the Spirit; read the post I made earlier on this thread or just click this link -

https://www.nairaland.com/2775627/purpose-law

Shalom

Take some time to read this to the end. I wrote this on another thread but I decided to paste it here to help bring this conflict between the Law and the Spirit to perspective.

https://www.nairaland.com/2775627/purpose-law

THE PURPOSE OF THE LAW

Salvation by Grace through faith was NEVER plan B as many seem to think. It wasn't as if God thought the law would work at first, then when He discovered it wouldn't work, He decided to opt for plan B, which is grace through faith in Christ's death and resurrection. NO!

The law was never intended by God from the beginning to be the standard for attaining justification and righteousness in His kingdom or for receiving the promise of the Spirit and eternal life.

There is no law you can keep and no commandment you can obey that can justify you before God or make you righteous by the standard of His kingdom.

Romans 3v20 -Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Even if you were able to obey all the commandments, you still will not receive the promise of the Spirit or eternal life.

Galatians 3v21 -Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

And this was not a later discovery to God, He knew this was the case from the beginning.

Acts 15v11 -But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

v18 - Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

God knew from the beginning of the world, that salvation, justification and eternal life would be by grace, through faith in the death and resurrection of Christ.

That was why the lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world.

Rev 13v8 -...the lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

And remission through His blood foreordained before the foundation of the world.

1Peter 1v19-20 -But with the precious blood of Christ, as of the lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was FOREORDAINED before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.

The law was given to bring men to the end of themselves and then introduce them to God's saviour -Jesus Christ.

Galatians 3v24 -Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

It was given to shut men up, silence their pride, and bring them to the end of their self-righteousness and then introduce them to God's righteousness, which is through faith in Christ.

Romans 3v19 -Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

So that God can now introduce us to His righteousness, which is by faith in Christ Jesus

v21 -But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

v22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Secondly, the law was a prison to restrain transgressors, pending when faith in Christ would bring the cure to sin through Christ's death and resurrection.

Gal 3v19 -Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;

Its like when there is a zombie apocalypse or a disease epidemic, and those infected are contained and restrained in a prison or a containment facility, while scientists are working on a cure. That is the law.

Gal 3v23 -But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up (or imprisoned) unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

The law is not the cure to sin, it was just a prison, a containment facility for transgressors, pending when faith in Christ, through His death and resurrection would bring the cure to sin.

Galatians 3v21 -Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

v22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Only through the blood of Christ do we have remission for sins. Only through faith in His death and resurrection are we imputed with the life of Christ and the gift of righteousness. And only by being filled and led of His Spirit do we work out that life of Christ and the righteousness.

Galatians 3v25 - But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

v26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Trying to preach the law to those who now have the Spirit, is tantamount to keeping those who have been cured still under containment.

1Timothy 1v7 -Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

v8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

v9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, ...

So what do we preach to the new creation? We preach the new commandment -LOVE.

John 13v34 - A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Love is the new commandment for the new creation. That is what we preach through Christ to the new creation and walk in as new creation.

And how do we obey and walk in love? Is it by struggling and pretending to fake or force the love? No! It is by surrendering to the Spirit.

Romans 5v5 -And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit that we've already been given. Every christian who has the Spirit, has by default, the ability to love God and love like God, through the Spirit. We only need to learn surrender to that Spirit.

But wait a minute, are you trying to tell us that we don't need to keep the ten commandments anymore? Yes, that's exactly what I am saying!

Jesus called love the new commandment. When God calls one new, it is because He has made the former old and obsolete.

Hebrews 8v13 - By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

God does not bring in the new to run with the old, He brings in the new to replace the former.

Hebrews 10v9 -Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 7v18 - The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless.

Ephesians 2v15 - He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in himself one new people from the two groups.

So yes, that's exactly what I am saying. We don't need the ten commandments anymore. We are to be Spirit filled and led now, as the new creation. We are to practise surrender to the Spirit.

Romans 7v6 - But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The more we learn how to stay filled and led of the Spirit, the more the love-life of Christ becomes our natural lifestyle -even without the ten commandments.

You can't be led of the Spirit and of the law at the same time.

Galatians 5v18 -But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Carnal christians don't need the ten commandments, they need surrender to the Holy Spirit. The love of Christ is not shed in our hearts by the ten commandments. Infact legalistic christians tend to be the most loveless set of people.

The love of Christ is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 5v16 -This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

He didn't say "Do not fulfil the lust of the flesh, and ye shall walk in the Spirit". He said "Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh".

If you walk in love by walking in the Spirit, you won't need any ten commandments to tell you not to cheat on you wife, or not to commit murder, or not to bear false witness against your neighgour. The love of God shed abroad in your heart by the Holy Spirit will constrain you.

2Cor 5v14 - For the love of Christ constraineth us; ...

Joseph lived centuries before Moses, yet he didn't need any ten commandments to make him flee fornication with potipher's wife. His love for God and His master constrained Him.

Genesis 39v9 -There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?

The law and the ten commandments are not against the Spirit and love. But they don't walk together or work hand-in-hand either. When the Spirit and the love comes, the law and the ten should step back. Just as Moses and Elijah (the law and the prophet) disappeared on the mount of transfiguration -leaving only Jesus (grace).

Mark 9v8 -And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man anymore, SAVE JESUS ONLY with themselves.

To be Spirit filled and led is the way to obey the new commandment of LOVE. If we practise surrender to the Spirit, we will love God, and love men like God.

Shalom

frosbel2:
"Parents must not be put to death for the sins of their children, nor children for the sins of their parents. Those deserving to die must be put to death for their own crimes." - Deuteronomy 24:16

"In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge" - Jeremiah 31:29-30

" So Moses went back to the Lord and said, “Oh, what a great sin these people have committed! They have made themselves gods of gold. But now, please forgive their sin—but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written.” The Lord replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book. Now go, lead the people to the place I spoke of, and my angel will go before you. However, when the time comes for me to punish, I will punish them for their sin.” - Exodus 32:31-34

No man can by any means redeem his brother Or give to God a ransom for him -Psalm 49:7

In the light of the scriptures above , God has consistently all over the bible said that NO MAN can die for the sins of another MAN. so how come many of us believe that Jesus died for our sins, is this not massively CONTRADICTORY ??

According to many scriptures, Jesus was indeed sent of the Father to die for our sins.

Read this verses;

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

And this verse; according to the testimony of John the Baptist, the very forerunner of CHRIST;

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Also, according to Paul, the apostle; through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Jesus died for our sins.

1Cor15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Then according to the testimony of Jesus Christ Himself;

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

And this;

Mark 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

All these verses show and prove that Jesus Christ did come and die for our sins and rose for our justification.

All the verses you quoted in your opening post should be understood in the context of a mere man. No sinner can die for another sinner. Only sinless blood can atone and remit the sins of another. It's either a sinner perishes for his own sins or a sinless blood atones for him. And there was no sinless blood among all of mankind.

God knew this. That was why God Himself promised to provide for Himself a sinless lamb for the sins of mankind.

Gen 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

So only the sinless lamb that God provides can die and atone for the sins of mankind, and no other man can do it.

That is the context in which you are to understand those verses of the old covenant that you quoted, which made clear that no man could die for the sins of another, and that all man would perish for his own sins.

That was indeed true. Because until the lamb of God, Jesus Christ, came, no man was qualified to die for another or atone for sins. But Jesus was sent by the Father to do that and accomplish what no man could ever do.

Shalom

MrPresident1:
38days to 20th January 2017.

The brethren are not in darkness, never forsaking the gathering of ourselves even as we see the day approaching.

The brethren are not in darkness, it will catch the whole world unawares, but the brethren are not in darkness, they will be fully prepared to receive The Master.

Be sober and watchful.

Good morning body and bride of Christ. Your Groom appears

Thanks for the mention.

I've not read through all the pages of this thread so I don't know if you have explained it before.

But what do you mean by Jesus is coming January 20th? Is it the literal second coming that will usher in the millennial reign?

Or a figurative and symbolic coming, like a revival of the church or something like that?

Shalom

An2elect2:
This applies to all of us who are in Christ right?

I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work John 9:4

I guess its not too late reasoning with some men, who knows if God would be merciful to open their hearts

True, it is never too late to reason with a soul as long as there is life. But it is wisdom to know when it is time to switch to intercession instead of explanation.

When someone is a gainsayer, like the jews of Paul's day, they will deliberately twist and feign misunderstanding of whatever you say. More explanation will not help such people.

Most atheists on NL are gainsayers, they pretend to ask questions, to lead you into an argument, over what they have already made their mind up about. Such people can't be reasoned with, they can only be interceeded for.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

2Tim 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

Shalom

An2elect2:
How can a church collapse? We are the church of Christ. There is no how the temple of our Lord would collapse

You really have patience. It's clear he doesn't understand what you mean, and he doesn't even want to. Don't bother.

obisage:
I was an atheist, later an agnostic and now a theists but doesn't belong to any religion for now. I have always longed for explanation, definition and demystification of the Deity/Deities that controls/control this universe without using a particular religious book to do so. today I'm happy I have seen one... at least am convinced that there are supernatural powers for now...

next quest is to find out the best way to please that/those Deity/Deities...

please don't come here to tell me about your Church. when I get what I'm looking for I'll know

I'm glad this write up was able to bring you one step closer to the ultimate truth.

I am a Christian and I believe Jesus Christ is the deity your heart is yearning for, even though your mind can't articulate it just yet.

But I have videos that can help you arrive at that conclusion much faster, with the help of the Holy Spirit of course.

This video articulates with simple common sense, and with little reference to any holy book, basic scientific and philosophical facts that show that,

The supernatural exists

God exists

And the Bible is true

If you have enough mb and time to download and watch these videos, you will enjoy it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoqzcDrILJ0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvaptt_nZXE

Shalom

randomperson:

Oookay... He doesn't delight in it... He just reluctantly made two bears devour 42 children. He must be a good god then

https://www.nairaland.com/2340563/why-did-god-kill-42#34158904

Look up this post. It answers your wrong assumption

Shalom

An2elect2:


What do you mean by tangible spiritual experience?

I mean this;

1Cor 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Most Christians have their faith standing in the wisdom of man, maybe their pastor, or fellow brethren; and not in the power of God.

That is why when a more enticing words of man's wisdom comes along, they are confused and start second guessing what they believe.

That's why Jesus said;

John 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

Let's not derail the topic though

Shalom

An2elect2:
Every man knows there is God but our hearts are deceitful !

Look what the religion of atheism has reduced this great section to. We were suppose to be fending for one another and growing in faith but here we are

One of the ways to edify the sheep is by going after the bears and lions that seek to snatch them, just as David did for his father's sheep.

But you're right, the best way to edify the brethren is to lead them into a tangible spiritual experience with the glory of Christ. You can't justify any nonesense to someone who has seen the glory of Christ.

We will get there.

Shalom

It is SIMPLY a basic scientific fact that Space, Time, Energy and Matter (STEM) and the Laws of nature (Physics, Chemistry and Biological laws) had a beginning. Scientifically, nothing can exist "since eternity past" or "from backward infinity". Or in layman's language, there is nothing without a beginning. Eternity past or everlasting pre-existence is only a philosophical or theological term -not scientific.

So now if scientifically, STEM and the Laws of nature had a beginning -a point of creation; then it means, something (and to be a fully open-minded free thinker; or someone) created STEM and the Laws of Nature.

Now if something (or someone) created Space, Time, Energy and Matter (STEM) and the Laws of nature (Physics, Chemistry and Biological laws); then this can only be the logical qualities of that thing:


1. It pre-exists STEM and the Laws of Nature. To create something, you must be before what you create.


2. It exists outside the context of the reality of STEM and the Laws of Nature. Something that created Space, Time, energy and matter must be able to exist outside of the reality of STEM and the laws of nature, even though it may still be able to exert control over STEM and the Laws of Nature.


3. Something that created the Laws of Nature, must logically not require the laws of nature to be creative. It doesn't require the permission of the laws of nature to act. And since it created STEM, it must logically not be bound by the limitations of space, time, energy and matter to get things in motion.


Now, based on the afore logical qualities of what could have given STEM and the laws of nature their scientific beginning, let me ask;

What do you call that thing, that pre-exists and supersedes the laws of nature, something that can exist outside the reality of the laws of nature and exert control over the laws of nature, and something that doesn't require the laws of nature to be creative; and is not bound by the limitations of space, time, energy and matter to get something in motion?

Well, ladies and gentlemen, you just accurately defined SUPERNATURAL POWER.

Without quoting any bible verse, but simply drawing logical conclusion from established scientific facts; you have proved the existence of supernatural power.

So science, by it's own logical definition of itself, and it's own logical explanation of it's origin; admits and alludes to the existence of the supernatural.

It is therefore unscientific to deny the supernatural, it is unscientific to deny the possibility of miracles. It is unscientific to believe that nothing can defy the laws of nature.

I am a TRUE scientist, that is why I believe in the supernatural and in miracles.

Shalom

This is a post from another thread. It is a comprehensive explanation on the law and the ten commandments versus the Spirit and Love.

ayoku777:
THE PURPOSE OF THE LAW

Salvation by Grace through faith was NEVER plan B as many seem to think. It wasn't as if God thought the law would work at first, then when He discovered it wouldn't work, He decided to opt for plan B, which is grace through faith in Christ's death and resurrection. NO!

The law was never intended by God from the beginning to be the standard for attaining justification and righteousness in His kingdom or for receiving the promise of the Spirit and eternal life.

There is no law you can keep and no commandment you can obey that can justify you before God or make you righteous by the standard of His kingdom.

Romans 3v20 -Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Even if you were able to obey all the commandments, you still will not receive the promise of the Spirit or eternal life.

Galatians 3v21 -Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

And this was not a later discovery to God, He knew this was the case from the beginning.

Acts 15v11 -But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

v18 - Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

God knew from the beginning of the world, that salvation, justification and eternal life would be by grace, through faith in the death and resurrection of Christ.

That was why the lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world.

Rev 13v8 -...the lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

And remission through His blood foreordained before the foundation of the world.

1Peter 1v19-20 -But with the precious blood of Christ, as of the lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was FOREORDAINED before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.

The law was given to bring men to the end of themselves and then introduce them to God's saviour -Jesus Christ.

Galatians 3v24 -Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

It was given to shut men up, silence their pride, and bring them to the end of their self-righteousness and then introduce them to God's righteousness, which is through faith in Christ.

Romans 3v19 -Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

So that God can now introduce us to His righteousness, which is by faith in Christ Jesus

v21 -But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

v22  Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Secondly, the law was a prison to restrain transgressors, pending when faith in Christ would bring the cure to sin through Christ's death and resurrection.

Gal 3v19 -Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;

Its like when there is a zombie apocalypse or a disease epidemic, and those infected are contained and restrained in a prison or a containment facility, while scientists are working on a cure. That is the law.

Gal 3v23 -But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up (or imprisoned) unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

The law is not the cure to sin, it was just a prison, a containment facility for transgressors, pending when faith in Christ, through His death and resurrection would bring the cure to sin.

Galatians 3v21 -Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

v22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Only through the blood of Christ do we have remission for sins. Only through faith in His death and resurrection are we imputed with the life of Christ and the gift of righteousness. And only by being filled and led of His Spirit do we work out that life of Christ and the righteousness.

Galatians 3v25 - But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

v26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Trying to preach the law to those who now have the Spirit, is tantamount to keeping those who have been cured still under containment.

1Timothy 1v7 -Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

v8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

v9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, ...

So what do we preach to the new creation? We preach the new commandment -LOVE.

John 13v34 - A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Love is the new commandment for the new creation. That is what we preach through Christ to the new creation and walk in as new creation.

And how do we obey and walk in love? Is it by struggling and pretending to fake or force the love? No! It is by surrendering to the Spirit.

Romans 5v5 -And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit that we've already been given. Every christian who has the Spirit, has by default, the ability to love God and love like God, through the Spirit. We only need to learn surrender to that Spirit.

But wait a minute, are you trying to tell us that we don't need to keep the ten commandments anymore? Yes, that's exactly what I am saying!

Jesus called love the new commandment. When God calls one new, it is because He has made the former old and obsolete.

Hebrews 8v13 - By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

God does not bring in the new to run with the old, He brings in the new to replace the former.

Hebrews 10v9 -Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 7v18 - The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless.

Ephesians 2v15 - He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in himself one new people from the two groups.

So yes, that's exactly what I am saying. We don't need the ten commandments anymore. We are to be Spirit filled and led now, as the new creation. We are to practise surrender to the Spirit.

Romans 7v6 - But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The more we learn how to stay filled and led of the Spirit, the more the love-life of Christ becomes our natural lifestyle -even without the ten commandments.

You can't be led of the Spirit and of the law at the same time.

Galatians 5v18 -But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Carnal christians don't need the ten commandments, they need surrender to the Holy Spirit. The love of Christ is not shed in our hearts by the ten commandments. Infact legalistic christians tend to be the most loveless set of people.The love of Christ is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 5v16 -This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

He didn't say "Do not fulfil the lust of the flesh, and ye shall walk in the Spirit". He said "Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh".

If you walk in love by walking in the Spirit, you won't need any ten commandments to tell you not to cheat on you wife, or not to commit murder, or not to bear false witness against your neighgour. The love of God shed abroad in your heart by the Holy Spirit will constrain you.

2Cor 5v14 - For the love of Christ constraineth us; ...

Joseph lived centuries before Moses, yet he didn't need any ten commandments to make him flee fornication with potipher's wife. His love for God and His master constrained Him.

Genesis 39v9 -There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?

The law and the ten commandments are not against the Spirit and love. But they don't walk together or work hand-in-hand either. When the Spirit and the love comes, the law and the ten should step back. Just as Moses and Elijah (the law and the prophet) disappeared on the mount of transfiguration -leaving only Jesus (grace).

Mark 9v8 -And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man anymore, SAVE JESUS ONLY with themselves.

To be Spirit filled and led is the way to obey the new commandment of LOVE. If we practise surrender to the Spirit, we will love God, and love men like God.

Shalom.

It's now Clinton 197 and Trump 201.

Trump has won Florida
Hillary wins California

It's now Clinton 190 and Trump 201.

Trump has won Florida
Hillary wins California

dnawah:
pls which number is 4 each of them

It's now Hillary 109 to Trump 168

Follow this link. The results are refreshed every minute

http://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/live-results-us-election-day-2016/index.html

rexben:
So, Jesus was cursed by God, right?
Criminals were hanged, so they are cursed by God because they're criminals not because they are hanged.
Was Jesus a criminal?

Are you reading what I'm writing at all, and the scriptures I've been quoting?

Jesus was not a criminal or a sinner, but He took responsibility for our sins, and our iniquities were laid upon Him.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

So the Father judged Him in our place as the sinner and the criminal.

That's why the scriptures said, He was numbered with (reckoned among) the transgressors.

Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Jesus Himself said so in the gospels;

Luk 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

Jesus was not a criminal or a sinner, but He took our sins and our iniquities were laid upon Him, so He was judged on our behalf as the one who sinned.

Stop arguing with something that can be proved with so many scriptures. Because now it's the scriptures you're arguing with.

Shalom

rexben:
Are you saying Jesus is accursed because you're are claiming Jesus was cursed by God.
So I want you to understand that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
1 Cor 12:3
Looking at it, Jesus was not a criminal. Or was He?

He was made a curse for us, just as He was made sin for us

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

He took our humanity, our sin and our curse, and died on the cross. And He rose and gave us His life, righteousness and blessings.

Shalom.