₦airaland Forum

MetroLane:
Exactly. He could be easily tracked because there was no way he was going to leave France. He couldn't stay hidden either because there's no point in Challenging the Marquis and not showing up, which means automatic Victory for the Marquis.

And in all the this, the biggest winner is the High Table, because they can easily appoint a new Marquis. Their aim of killing John was achieved ( expect the producers want to give us a new twist like saying John didn't die and bla bla ).

@Baddestguyp Don't forget the Marquis is not the main player, the High Table is. Did the high table win at the end? Of course. Except John didn't die, and even if he didn't, I see no reason for him going after the high table again.

The Marquis is the puppet, even if Winston hadn't manipulated him into accepting, the high table seeing an opportunity would've done the same.

the problem with your statement is that Chapter 3 and chapter 4 have shown that they never had trouble tracking John Wick no matter the country he fled to...

So why would they need him to stay in France when they could track him anywhere...
It's even more ridiculous since it makes no sense to take a huge gamble on Wick winning a duel just because they wanted him to stay in France.
There is no balance between risk and potential benefit


The Marquis was given much power by the High Table.

*(Assuming the Marquis has complete choice to refuse the duel) the options for the Marquis are these:

1. Refuse the duel and continue to have assassins hunt Wick from all over the world since it's not hard to track John Wick... (It's only a short matter of time before they kill Wick) ---- 100% success rate

OR

2. Accept the duel and keep Wick in France...but risk the possibility of Wick making it to the venue and killing Caine and walking away Scot free ---- 50% success rate


If you were the Marquis, which would you choose? Any sane person would choose Option 1...
It's a 100% guaranteed success....
Option 2 is a useless gamble that changes it to a 50/50 chance

MetroLane:
See how you quickly switched your narrative from he could have refused to he didn't have a choice.

I didn't switch anything

You were the one who said he accepted the duel out of pride...

I showed screenshot to show that is wrong...

My first statement you quoted is called an "example" or a "scenerio" that if he could refuse, then why did he bother with accepting it only to send assassins to kill Wick

It's an example to further my point that the Marquis didn't really have a choice

MetroLane:
See how you quickly switched your narrative from he could have refused to he didn't have a choice.

John Wick was pretty much fvcked without the duel...
It was literally only a short matter of time before he died...

The duel gave Wick an escape route...Marquis had no reason to accept the duel if he didn't have to...
It was certainly not out of pride as you suggested...
It was not pride

Wick could as well kill Caine and walk Scot free...the risk and the benefit do not match at all...no balance at all

IMEI:
John only got to know that killing the Elder would change nothing on getting there. He went all the way there thinking he could

The Marquis had a right of refusal over the duel, Winston only manipulated him to accept it and the Marquis saw an opportunity in that

Accepting the duel meant that John Wick could be more easily tracked and killed, since he would have to make his way to the duel arena. Accepting the duel gave the Marquis an oppportunity to send hordes against John Wick to either kill him or delay him and cause a forfeit by default on the part of Wick, which would mean his death. Plus, the added advantage of keeping a hold of Caine's services if John is killed by other than Caine

why would John think killing the Elder would change anything...
He's spent years as an assassin...he knows how it works...he did it out of revenge

The problem with stating that the Marquis had a right of refusal is that it leads to another can of worms...
What exactly did he benefit from it?
He never had a problem tracking Wick in chapter 3 and chapter 4

It's basically a risk for not enough gain...a risk of Wick walking away after killing Caine and the Marquis paying for it

John Wick was literally fvcked without the duel...it was only a matter of time

MetroLane:
Isn't this what the Marquis wanted, do you think he could've stayed hidden on his way to the duel?

For him to get there, he has to come above ground, so it's not like he had a choice anyway.

tracking John Wick has never been a problem...
They never had trouble finding him in chapter 3 and even at the Osaka Continental

IMEI:
The consequence of failure here is him failing to kill John Wick as he was charged to do. Hence, Winston presented an opportunity to the Marquis to directly face off with him and get the job done

exactly as I suspected...
The point is, it's not about arrogance...
It's because he didn't have a choice

At the same time, the Marquis never had trouble in tracking Wick...the problem was killing him...

A 1v1 faceoff is not easier than a million fully equipped assassins...in fact the face off is far more risky since John had a good chance of not just surviving but walking away freely

So the Marquis had no compelling reason to accept the duel if he really had a choice


For the family...the Marquis called them a "second-rate seat"

@ MetroLane

Further proof:

MetroLane:
It's only those whose families sit at the table that can challenge the Marquis to a duel. So a random person can't just wake up one morning, kill everybody in his village and look for a way out by challenging the Marquis to a duel.

Asking why the Marquis didn't refuse the challenge, well it's quite obvious he's an arrogant man and he's more likely to accept than refuse the challenge. He let his arrogance stand in the way of sound reasoning.

Secondly, John was always on the move, and tracking him wasn't the easiest thing for the Marquis, I guess he wanted John in a fixed location, where John can't pull off any surprise attack on them, and if John doesn't show up to that location, it's game over, hence he tried to stop him from getting there.

Did you see the speed at which he collected the gun from Caine in other to end John's life without even considering the fact that John hasn't shot the third time. It was his plan all along, arrogance over sound reasoning and it led to his death.

If he had calculated well it might have ended in his favor. Afterall Winston told John that it's win or lose. Neither is certain for both parties, the outcome might go either way.

changes nothing. A family member can still commit attrocities and get away with it...
So yeah

John was quite easy to track right from Chapter 3 and even Chapter 4...they tracked him to the Osaka hotel...
Even on the way to the duel, the moment he came above ground, he was found

For the Marquis accepting the duel...I disagree with you....
it was not pride
Proof in the image below:

Further proof in my next post

MetroLane:
Challenging the Marquis to a duel is not the issue.

The thing you should be thinking about is that "will the Challenger be alive to witness the day of the duel"

Remember nothing is stopping the Marquis from indirectly killing the Challenger before the duel.

You might think it's an easy way out because John Wick survived the whole ordeal.

If it was a random individual from a random family like you said, do you think such person would've survived given the resources at the disposal of the Marquis.

Remember it's the plot armour that kept John Alive and not how easy it was to challenge the Marquis and win.

If not for the arrogance of the Marquis, do you think John Wick would've won the duel

if you could refuse a duel, what was the point of accepting it only to try to stop him from making it to the venue?

Look at it this way....X joins Y family...commits crimes against the High Table and asks for a duel...

If the Marquis can refuse the duel and kill X, then why waste time in accepting it only to try to assassinate X from behind?

John Wick could have won the duel if he wanted to kill Caine. He purposely didn't shoot...

The duel being introduced as a way out of liability opens an entire "can of worms" on the lore and rules of the show
Many other characters could have also tried to escape liability with the duel

IMEI:
If i remember correctly, in part 3 he went to the elder in the desert to have the contract on his head, placed by the high table, pulled and the excommunicado lifted

In part 4, he killed the elder because he had refused to fulfill his oath to him (the elder) and the bounty on his head had increased. John thought he could free himself that way

Winston only mentioned the duel to him because, having killed the elder and being wanted dead by the High table, the only way out was the ancient rule

The duel itself inorder to work MUST be accepted, if it's refused, the way is shut

The way out was for the Marquis to be challenged because all 12 members of the High table had signed and delegated their authority to the Marquis. The Marquis had been assigned by the High table, to take out John Wick and all who aided him

The Ruska Roma isn't a random family, it's the group that raised and trained Wick. He was a member before he left them and his ticket was cut by them

@ bolded...John knew killing the Elder would change nothing...

If I'm correct, the Marquis didn't have much of a choice. That's what Winston reminded him of...

If the Marquis could deny the duel easily, what was the point of accepting it then sending assassins to prevent John Wick from getting to the venue?

This means he had to accept the duel even if he didn't want to

It's only on this thread that someone isn't allowed to critique movies

Any critque about the plot or writing of a movie is suddenly met with insults rather than answers

The rule in John Wick is so ridiculous that a family can literally organize to wipe out multiple members of the High Table...wipe out a Marquis or Elder...

And walk away Scot free by challenging the present Marquis to a duel 😭😭😭


But apparently I'm not allowed to point this out because it's a crime to point out a ridiculous plot point in a movie I enjoyed

phr0nesis:
Please where did I defend anything. It's just you whining about something that isn't there; many professionals have watched the full movie and none has complained about a weak CGI except you and another fan boy spotting it from the trailers. If the movie is released and it's bad, I'll condemn it, DC or not. I'm not sure there's any DC movie I have outrightly praised here. "The Batman" is probably the only DC movie that didn't get the stick from me even though I still complained about its slow pace

I'm speaking about the trailers...Mr Man

Fact is the CGI in The Flash trailers have been awful. The final trailer was released yesterday with the same awful CGI

The only possible excuse is that maybe the trailer was made using unfinished scenes...but it's highly unlikely since it's the final trailer

And for context, I also saw tweets yesterday of people who claimed to have seen the preview and said the CGI is bad...

We can never know for sure until we see the full movie...but it's a fact that the CGI in the final trailer is awful

Broskyjames:
You are not right in any sense G. The bone of contention was that you said the guy John Wick killed in the beginning was a Marquis, which Shaqfu clearly nabbed you in that lie. So there was no need for the shalaye to prove an obvious lie.

Try dey rest sometimes so you don't make yourself an easy target for ridicule.

the bone of my contention was the ridiculous plot convenience used as an easy way out for John Wick...

Whether it's an Elder or a Marquis he killed changes nothing...the fact is that he did commit a major crime against the high table...
And he was given an easy way out

A non-existent rule that only came up suddenly out of nowhere...a rule that the Manager of the Osaka Continental had no idea about...but random members of a random family knew all about


Make it make sense

ShaqFu:
An easy way out you say? A easy way out that cost him his life? You call it easy?

I bet in John Wick chapter 2 you knew about the Marquis De Grimmot and also about the Elder who sit above the table?

Since you want me to explain the emboldened part, it's simple: rules. Remember John Wick himself knew about High Table duels but believes it's a myth.

Winston the manager of the continental New York knows the rules and how to get under or above them. It explains why he's manage the New York hotel for so long and with it, forge alliances.

cost him his life because he didn't want to kill Caine.

He knew about a rule that could literally set him free but ignored it because he suspected it was a mere myth .... Wow

Even aside Winston, everyone seemed to suddenly know about the rules....even Mr Nobody suddenly knew about it...

But somehow, the manager of Osaka Continental did not know about the ancient rule?


This is the same rule that random members of the family that John Wick joined all knew about.

This is what we call "peak plot convenience"
When you write your character into a corner and you make an àsspull to get your character out of it

ShaqFu:
see how you've just embarrassed yourself. The dude at the beginning of the movie who John Wick killed is The Elder, the only one who sit above the table. He's not a Marquis in anyway.

Guy abeg rest and stop this nonsense

I just googled...and yeah you're right...it's an Elder he killed who was replaced

But I'm also right in the sense that he had an easy way out after killing an Elder...
In fact it's even more ridiculous now that he had such an easy way out after killing an Elder


So explain to me how it makes sense that Wick killed and Elder, simply joined a family, challenged the Marquis and is free?
It means any Tom or Harry in a family can kill an Elder and walk away easily

What a ridiculous plot convenience...
A plot convenience no one knew existed in Chapter 3...but suddenly everyone knows it in Chapter 4


if I'm in the world of John Wick, what stops me from joining a family and killing an Elder, Marquis or anyone, and walking away freely after challenging a Marquis to a duel

Octopusssy:
Someone cannot go through this thread without seeing major spoilers. Mscheeeew

that's why you have to watch the movie fast

I planned to wait till weekend before...but spoilers

ShaqFu:
He didn't know about doing such until he was told Mr Man. Desperate times, calls for desperate measures.

The manager had a score to settle with the Marquis and the High Table that's why he told Wick to Initiate it. Remember even the head of the Roska Roma, the woman didn't know about the duel until her Church priest confirm it after Wick told her.

So you can stop with polluting this thread with your one-sided opinion. It's not funny anymore.

PS: which previous marquis did John Wick kill?

did we watch the same movie?
No wonder you're asking these questions

I talked about how it was such an easy way out

And if you did watch the movie, you won't be asking me the previous Marquis John Wick killed


Or did you miss the scene at the desert at the start of the movie?
John Wick killed him in the desert and just as he predicted, he was replaced immediately

Illusioneffect:
exactly what I wanted to point out!!!!!! Even the first trailer the cgi was really bad Marvel has its issues but its CGI can't be as bad as DC super girl was looking like a plastic toy held by a child to fly

I and many others assumed it was merely an unfinished VFX that would be polished before release...

However even this final trailer has poor CGI...
I don't know if the clips from the final trailer are from recent footage or old footage from when the VFX was uncompleted

Illusioneffect:
Hmm you're right tho but maybe the reason the declaration wasn't in part 3 was because there was no Marquis🤔🤔

there was a Marquis in chapter 3

The dude in the desert he chopped off his finger for...
Same person he killed at the beginning of Chapter 4

phr0nesis:
Keep on crying

apparently someone cannot criticize something again

I've been hyping The Flash for quite a while on this thread without complaining much about the CGI on the trailers because it was still in progress and I believed it would be fixed before the release of the movie...

Now that I saw the final trailer and the CGI still looks quite underwhelming... apparently I should not complain abi?

DC fanboys sha...don't become like Marvel fanboys that defend anything

Illusioneffect:
1. In my opinion tho it was long enough
2. John Wick didn't know it could be resolved that way because right from the beginning we already know he had no knowledge about the High Table not to talk of its old traditions and we already know the owner of the New York Continental won't give up any information without gaining anything from it

you never had issues with the length of the movie? That's quite surprising cos many people did have issues with the length as from what I've seen online...
And tbh the movie had no reason to be that long

Honestly I can't remember much about Chapter 3...but it's quote weird that none of his associates mentioned such an easy way out for John Wick...
In chapter 4 there seemed to be quite a number of people who knew about that method

The rule too makes things quite easy...you can kill the Marquis or commit any attrocity and walk Scot free by simply challenging the new Marquis to a duel...or if you don't have a family already, you can join one and do the challenge...

It means any member of a family can do and undo and simply walk away free with a duel

Illusioneffect:
I totally get your point but if you've watched every John Wick movie, you should know that this is totally fantasy, it shouldn't be seen as realistic in any way whatsoever, it's just like rating the flash movie as realism which would be totally bourgeoisie.
Art has its form. Stahelski in an interview said he wanted the action to be as overthetop as possible and he absolutely nailed it in every scene 100% imp.
I've watched it in cinemas and rewatched it today. The cinematography of this movie is impeccable, if you pause in any frame you could decide to make any part a wallpaper bro. The attention to detail is so on point that I had to rewatch some scenes to totally get it. The scene where the Owner of the New York Continental was walking past the art placed on the walls if you're an art student or aficionado you'd realise it says something about the 60 forms of defeat and the Manager (after researching that scene) took 60 steps to the middle!!!!(mind blown!)
The action was so damn great bro and that's the main deal about this movie - no one really cares about the story, we just want to see some ass whooping bro!!!! Awesome art direction, stunt work. It wasn't like some movies where some actors will be waiting for their turn to get their ass kicked broo, If you check the background actors there made real time decisions!
If you didn't like John Wick 4, you were just looking at it at the wrong direction. Is just like rating a Wes Anderson by its humor alone
To me John WICK was 9.5/10.

I didn't go in expecting a masterpiece story...I went to see Keenu Reeves kick some àss....
And I did enjoy the movie and the fight scenes

My major complaints however are:

1. Length...3 hours was too much...it became very tedious...it was like watching a 3 hours fighting compilation...it was fun for a while, then it became a chore...
The fight on the busy road was refreshing tho

2. Resolution...the resolution was quite weak. After killing the previous Marquis...all he had to do was join a family and stage a duel with the new one to be free from his obligations?
What was the point of Chapter 3 then?

Watching a movie for fighting scenes doesn't mean I won't notice these things

I made a comment here about how the resolution of John Wick 4 was underwhelming...

And truly, I saw more comments from people with similar opinion.

Wick being free from his obligations even after killing the previous Marquis...by simply joining a family and challenging the Marquis to a duel made no sense...

Several people even complained of how that plot point made the entire Chapter 3 pointless if he could always do this to be free

Calibrator:
The hunter with the dog is what writers call "Plot convenience" without him some parts of the movie won't add up like how Marqius was able to keep track of Wick movement, how Wick survived the dilapidated building shooting and the ever shifting moral conundrum of the hunter.


He is a very vital part from an objective artistic point of view.


Oh crap.... I forgot to check who I am reply to, now I am in a conundrum myself.. Seeing as this is not AOT, and we all know what we know about you. Do I erase everything I have written or just post this to a brick wall?

your statement doesn't make much sense since they never needed him to track John Wick in Chapter 3...
From the end of Chapter 2 they literally had assassins all over the world...all over the streets

John Wick wasn't even putting as much effort into hiding since he was literally walking openly on streets with his face out...
Or what about the Marquis men finding Wick at the Osaka Continental...that was even before Mr Nobody contacted the Marquis


Mr Nobody mostly worked for himself...he even helped keep John Wick alive earlier in order to let his bounty keep increasing...
But storywise, there is not much importance. They could have literally removed his scenes and not much would change...

Wick already had Kevlar suits that helped him survive...he already had assistance from multiple characters...
It was a plot point that went nowhere...
As you said, a plot device...but a pointless one imo...


I'm sure you'll run away or hide behind: "he only talks about AOT" excuse

When you have nothing worthwhile to say, you hide behind the excuse. I talk about AOT more cos it's my favorite show...
How TF does that stop me from discussing other shows?

majesticguy:
Since you know it's not realistic, why talk about the unrealism then ? isn't that a kind of contradiction?

It's just like saying Fast X is unrealistic, yet you're questioning how possible it was for Dom to pull down two choppers by mere accelerating his car.

Movies like this aren't meant or made for you to think, just suspend your reasoning, go with the flow and enjoy the movie.

oga..I enjoyed the movie...
Just not as much as the previous ones...
And my main issues weren't even it's lack of realism...

My main issues were it's length and some pointless plot points e.g the Hunter with a dog

OhBritannia:
At the bolded.
Did they tell you that the movie John wick was based on a True life story?
Did they tell you that it is realistic?
When you watched your bat man and super man and wonder woman and black widow, etc
Did they tell you it's based on true life story and real life?

When matrix used his hands to stop thousands of bullets being shot at him, did the producer tell you it's realistic?

You all better watch the movie for what it is, fiction and entertainment.

Take your professional reviews to movies based on true life story.

I know John Wick is unrealistic...
That does not stop me from talking about it's unrealism...
Same as how we do for Fast and Furious

DenreleDave:
Please how is bullet not killing him.

Someone shud pls explain before I go nut here

the suits are full Kevlar body armor

John Wick was shot many times but the suit protected him. Same as many others he shot...they wore either full body armor that covers their face or that suit

That's why John Wick always used his hands or suit to cover his face anytime he's shot at


Funny thing is the lack of impact. Thin suits like that and yet no impact. The bullets just bounce off like nothing...

In real life you would have punctured organs...damaged ribs or something

budaatum:
I found John Wick a while a go. Put 1-4 on watchlist.

Any good?

It has some of the best action scenes in modern action flicks...way better than the CGI battles we get in modern superhero movies
They also pay attention to amount of bullets in a clip...unlike many action movies...
It's over-the-top action but fun...


For me Chapters 1 and 2 were the best...
Chapters 3 and 4 also had their moments but I think Chapter 4 was the weakest of all the movies. It dragged on for too long that it got very tiring...

Imagine watching a 30 minutes action scene of actors pulling the same stunts...then 5 minutes break and another 3 minutes action scene...rinse and repeat

It's okay for 2 hours but when it drags on for 3 hours, it gets tiring to watch

Some side plots also weren't needed...like the Hunter with a dog called Mr. Nobody

CGI Flash final trailer

DC needs to tone down on the CGI...
The entire trailer looks like a PS5 game trailer. All the costumes so fake... setting...etc

The only thing that looks real in this trailer are the faces...

It's like they only recorded the faces and used CGI for the rest of the production and acting...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jprhe-cWKGs

Broskyjames:
The story has become watered down since part 2, and this part 4 was the absolute worst albeit the ridiculous 2:49hrs run time didn't help, i was so so bored because the fight scenes kept going on and on, at the end i was wondering what was the point of all that. It has gone full circle and the ending suggests that but if they stretch it any further, they must be mad.

The good thing about past movies was not just the story, but also the lore. It was rich...how the High Table operate... Intercontinental etc

This latest movie just made an easy way out for Wick.

You mean that a person can get away with killing the Marquis and other things by simply joining a family and challenging the present Marquis?

It felt cheap


The action was good but tiring. For the first time ever, I slept off partway through a John Wick movie. Glad I didn't watch it in a cinema...it would be so tiring to sit for 3 hours watching a fighting compilation

John Wick 4 ..... 6.8/10

Review will be as spoiler-free as possible since most haven't watched it

It's kind of expected but this movie is 95% fights and 5% story....
This may seem normal for a John Wick movie, but the 3 hours length makes it far more noticeable

You could as well watch a YouTube compilation of fight scenes in John Wick 4 and you wouldn't have missed much

The action scenes were good but went on for too long that they got tiring. Having several action scenes of like 30minutes length does get tiring in a 3 hours movie

They really could have reduced this movie to 2 hours

My favorite action scene was the one on the road with cars driving by. That was awesome and chaotic...
And as usual, with fight scenes having less cuts, they were awesome

I personally didn't like the story direction in this movie and the ending too...
I'm yet to see the point of the Mr. Nobody and his dog...felt like a character the movie could have done without

Also, as usual, police don't exist in the John Wick world.
The bodies piled up would have been impossible to clean

bugatti453:
Person way dn die already for the 4

why you drop spoilers

Although the producers said it's a bit open ended...
Meaning, he could be alive