₦airaland Forum

As I've already stated, foreign policy is a major issue that affects the whole world so I don't see it as being a trivial issue.

OK.
Start with Middle Eastern policy.

You can go for the Palestinian problem if you prefer or take up Iraq or Afghanistan.

Or maybe go for all three.

I'll give you the international viewpoint on them. Not necessarily what I believe, but the view most of non-Americans.

Palestine: Unbridled US support for Israel is biased and causes much more harm than good.

Iraq. It never should have been invaded in the first place and once it was it descended into chaos.

Afghanistan. Again, never should have been invaded, but also has descended into chaos and looks like it's going to get even worse.


As stated, not necessarily my views but they are some of the major views of non-US citizens.

Once you've answered those, you can move onto relationships with Iran, relationships with other Middle East countries and the "War on Terror".

Name one particular bad policy and maybe we look at both sides of it to determine how "BAD" it is.

How about foriegn policy for a start?

The US had huge goodwill after 911 and has managed to totally squander it and has become by far the most hated nation on Earth. However right or wrong you may think that international view is, it unfortunately remains a fact.
In this modern era of globalisation, terrorism and easily accessible information that must change. Actions and reputations abroad affect both domestic and international economies. The US is fast running out of allies due to it's actions and policies abroad - ie: heavy fisted "diplomacy" and military action. I see even the UK moving away from the US and further into the arms of Europe and therefore the US risks isolation over any of it's foriegn policies.

Tell me how McCain isn't going to offer more of the same old same old.

US policies must change.
To pretend that plugging a few holes here and there is going to solve problems is to live in an alternative reality.

Vote for McCain and sure, he'll stop one or two leaks but he can't stop the ship from sinking with policies that are really no different than those of his predecessor.

Even the election stance is the same as last time - the Republicans are campaigning on a basis of fear where the Democrats are relying on hope.

Yes. Washington needs to be swept clean, but by the Republicans? The same people who made it dirty in the first place?


@Ollajay.

OBAMA PRESIDENCY WILL MOST LIKELY CAUSE THE BLACKS SHAME.

NO ONE SHOULD BE DISCRIMINATED UPON MERELY ON THE GROUNDS OF AGE, COLOUR

You do realise that you managed to contradict yourself in the space of 2 sentences?

Small town interpretation

Moose burger - hunting, gun, trophy, custom, territory

Pregnant teenagers - family pride, maturity, tradition

Hockey sticks - community, competition, bragging rights, leadership

I don't believe the above to be correct.
But if it were, is it any wonder that the rest of the World hates the US?

You've basically accused Palin of treating small-town America as being full of red-neck morons.

Bastage you didn't respond to this:

Quote from: JeSoul on Today at 04:19:15 PM
and since that is your position you must also agree that:
any reasonable person would realise that being a community organizer does not automatically qualify one to command the most powerful nation on Earth.

I didn't respond to it because it's irrelevent.

If you'D bothered to read my words, you'D see that I'm neither a Democrat nor a Republican. I merely responded to your post stating that as a Governor of Alaska, Palin is qualified for the office she seeks.
For the record, I think Obama is a weak pick as well, but I see him as the lesser of two evils. My concern is how the rest of the World will be impacted by Palin or Obama and Palin is definitely the weaker of the two.

Of course, in your blind zeal to defend Palin, you totally overlooked this point.

As for "potentials". That's got to be one of the weakest arguments I've seen. The whole of life is based around potentials and I gave you an average that gives a good summary of the "potentials".
"We" "can" "all" "put" "things" "in" "apostrophes" "but" "that" "doesn't" "lend" "your" "defence" "any" "more" "credence".

Tayo-D. Another one who doesn't read and yet you even quoted my words.

Don't kid yourself that she's just a VP (potentially).

She is running for the VP position and therefore she is potentially a VP. Get it?
As for the rest of your post? His mother being old means nothing if his health is poor. I've known guys whose mothers are in their 90s yet they've still punched the clock in their 60s.
As for the rest of the Obama statement - ditto to what I replied to JeSoul. i.e: I don't give a shit about Obama, but Palin is an idiot.

@darfur. Age is certainly relevent as is health. Some people are more likely to die than others whatever your sensitivities over the issue.

Misleading.

Thoughts and words have equal importance.

Kind words from a sinner are no different than cruel words from a saint.

*sigh*

How old is McCain? If he is voted into office she is one failed heartbeat away from being President. Voting for McCain, one is also voting for the distinct possibility that one is also voting for Palin to replace him.
McCain is 72 years old. The average age of a US male is 76. If he follows the law of averages, he will not see out his term of office. And let's not even go near the fact that he has already had health issues.


Don't kid yourself that she's just a VP (potentially).

She is nuts for believing all these things? People like her live and work all across America daily with not a single issue with their neighbors and you think she is bad for America?

Yes. Totally nuts. Denial of Evolution is for fruit-cakes. If one has so tenuous a grip on reality, how can one be expected to make sane policy decisions. You don't think a belief that the Earth was created in 7 days, 6000 years ago qualifies her as a balanced person, do you? It's denial of truth. If she's prepared to deny something so huge what chance does every other policy have? Her first act will probably be to send the US to the Moon again so that they can bring back some cheese. Nuts.

Rape and incest victims should be forced to have the babies? What right does she have to tell a 14 year old who has been raped by her uncle that she has to become a mother? Yes. Nuts.


As for people like her not having issues? These are the same people who voted for Bush and look what he has done to America's reputation throughout the world. I would counter the claim that they don't have "issues".
Even so, those people are not in a postition where they could possibly be in the highest political office on this Earth making decisions that affect the lives of billions.

If she wants to "make it". Let her "make it" where she can't do so much damage. I don't give a crap about Democrats or Republicans. I only care that the person making the decisions has a modicum of sanity.

@Jesoul.
Any reasonable person would realise that being governor of Alaska does not automatically qualify one to command the most powerful nation on Earth.

I fear for America.

If Mcain wins, one step away from the presidency is a woman who believes that the Earth is only 6000 years old, that rape and incest victims should be forced to give birth, that war is directed by God and that sex education for children should be forbidden (even though her unmarried 17 year old is pregnant).

The woman is clearly nuts. The only people more nuts would be those that vote for her.

The Bible has been modified and upgraded.

Quick Example: Go take a look at the King James Version and compare any chapter with the same one in a 20th century version. You'll find some big differences. Some of them quite eye opening.

As an aside, my personal favourite is a passage where one word has been changed:

1 Corinthians 13:4-8

You'll find that the word "Love" has replaced the word "Charity".

To me that means that both are one and the same.

Necessary.

the keep god in the past abi? abi they now created a new god in their own image. . .

No. If you take a look at the god of extremists and fundamentalists, you'll see that he is the same as the jealous, murdering, war-mongering, arrogant, insane god of the Old Testament.
That god had to behave like that - he was just starting up a new religion and conquering lands and needed fear to get his followers behind him.

But times moved on and if you take a look at the New Testament, you'll see a much more caring and loving figure. God moved on with mankind.

The literalists are the people who go back to that fearsome Old Testament god and use him to justify their actions.
If you take a look at Islam and Judaism you can see this at work. Both have the fearsome, tribal god and if their scriptures are taken literally, violence is justified. It's why the two sides can never get on with each other - their literal interpretations mean that they are constantly at war with each other.

There is a big difference between reading the Bible as the Word of God and taking everything within it's pages literally.

One has to realise that there are many, many things that cannot be taken literally and that these things need examining. For example, it is a book of politics and a book of history and one must always take those things in context.

I give you an example: In Leviticus, God forbids the eating of many food-stuffs. The vast majority of these are things that are poisonous when left unrefridgerated - ie: Pork, shellfish, etc. For the early Hebrews, who were a nomadic desert tribe, the last thing they needed on the eve of a battle was a dose of food poisoning so it made sense to steer well clear of them. As an army that needed to conquer territory and cities, it simply could not take the chance so it was therefore banned. This has transferred down the line and the Jews and the Muslims who live in warm climates still practice the ritual of not eating these foods. Evidentally, the fact that they now have fridges seems to have slipped their minds.

To those who take the Bible literally, they think that these foods are banned simply because God stated so. They don't look for a reasoning behind the rule and therefore are unable to accept that times change and mankind moves on. They don't question but follow blindly. They are stuck in the past and therefore they keep God stuck in the past. And unfortunately, this causes a hell of a lot of the problems we see in the world today.

its has no edition - as in, edition 1, 2 and so on.

Actually, it has more editions than any other book - from the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic it was originally written in, right down to the present day editions. Not only that, but it has been translated into more languages than any other book.

@coolruler

The reason they were not a race or ethnically distinctive was purely because of the outside breeding that took place.

In Egypt, they would have absorbed some Egyptian characteristics, some from foriegn converts and after the Exodus, they would have taken on the attributes of those they bred with from the lands they conquered.

One has to remember that there were only a finite number in the 12 tribes when Moses went up the mountain and there were always incidents where many lives were lost. Their numbers would need replenishing. This could not be done with inter-breeding amongst themselves as they simply didn't have the numbers.

Therefore, they were not a distinct race. Rather a mish-mash of many peoples throughout the Middle East.

@morpheus24. Relax, man. I didn't claim you made such a statement. 

It seems I have touched a naked wire.

I would guess by your previous inflammatory language that this was your aim. Contrary to what you may believe, no you haven't.

Bang your head on the wall as much as you wantI stil maintain ma stand that JC was never a failure.He never failed and until you give me REASONABLE quotes frm the bible to blive you(not your "Jesus wept quote",I will remain where i stand.

Yet again you misquote me. I stated earlier that there is a big difference between being a failure and being able to experience failure. I've opened my argument with a quote that explains it all. It's the shortest verse in the Bible. Understandable to a child.

PS:That you and I have diff opinion on this musn't give you the right to insult me.Maturity is having your opinion and not forcing other people to accept them.

Yet you would do the same to Olabowale? Who is the hypocrite here?

Save your strength.Olabowale is a muslim nd doesn't know jack about d bible but you find him nd his cohort parading demselves arnd christians and criticising christianity.

He may be a Muslim but I am not.
I am also a student of theology and can tell you that your arguments so far have been crass, illogical and without any grounding in sensible argument.

You haven't disproved a single point that I've made - just come out with a load of crap that "Jesus is god so he couldn't experience failure" a hundred times. You've even managed to misquote a very important part of what I have stated.
Argue the point and I'll maybe give you some respect. Until then you're just dumb noise.

This was nothing to do with the US, no matter how it's detractors would like to say that it is involved.

And rather the US than a country that murders and holds illegal detainment of political and economic opponents and journalists, censorship, punishment of citizens who exercise their voting rights in undesirable ways, crackdowns on demonstrations, state sponsored assassinations in other countries, of police abuse, genocide in Chechnya, supply of dangerous weapons and technology to hostile countries, money-laundering, bribes and economic crime throughout Europe and other countries.

Russia. You're welcome to it.

And maybe you should get down off your high horse and stop spouting illogical nonsense.

Why would Jesus have to have killed someone to be a human being? Please stop talking crap and look at logic.

As for cursing - didn't Jesus curse the fig tree? And what about when he threw the money-changers and pigeon-sellers out of the Temple? Do you reckon he just asked them politely to leave? That's not what the Bible says is it? In fact not only did he probably curse but the Bible says that he made "a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple".

And sin? Even Jesus himself admitted that he was not without sin:

Mark 10:17-18: "And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."
Matthew 19:16-17: "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. "
Luke 18:18-19: "And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God."

Pah. Blind followers are the worst.

If, as is looking likely, the Russians told the seperatists not to accept the offer of a truce, they did force the Georgian action.

You say nobody should be forced to be a part of any country. Does that mean I can declare my own nation within Nigeria? Of course it doesn't. The fact remains that Ossetia is Georgian territory under international law and the rule of law should be sacrosanct.
There has to be a line drawn that should not be crossed. Russia signed up to that line when it supported Georgian national integrity in the United Nations 6 months ago. It crossed that line when it instigated the invasion of Georgia.

Nothing is inevitable. But you can create a situation where you can pretty much be sure of the outcome.

Lady. There is a difference between experiencing failure and being a failure.

To fail is not to do wrong. Sometimes we fail because things just don't work out. This does not make us wrong.

You're missing the point.

The Russian Army was ready to invade Georgia before the Georgians went into Ossetia and Russia had created a situation where invasion was inevitable.

Pain and misery are negative feelings and therefore associated with failure.

It is not a denial of divinity to state that Jesus experienced a sense of failure. As you've said, he was human. Therefore he would have had all of a human being's emotions. An ability to experience failure is one of the attributes of being human.

If you think hard, yu will agree that what it takes for a war to begin, is a different view point.

I would totally agree with you here.
But that does not in any way answer the point that I've bought up.

You claimed that Christians began the conflicts by fighting the Muslims within thier own Christian lands. My issue with that is, whichever way you look at it, that is a fight against an invader and therefore a fight against an aggressor.
Fighting against an aggressor is a defence and the defender is not the initial attacker. Therefore, in your own words, Islam must have been the instigator.

Gospel of John, chapter 11, verse 35.

"Jesus Wept".

The fact that Jesus felt misery and pain meant that he also experienced the feeling of what it was like to fail.

4Play.

I think you've done a great job here. One of the best short dissections of the political bent of German National Socialism that I've seen in a forum discussion.

I totally agree with you that Nazism was not "right wing" per se, but I do disagree that it didn't have more right wing tendencies than you claim - for example, the aim to return to historical traditional values (however misinterpreted by Hitler and his cronies) must be seen as a brand of conservatism and therefore right-leaning. I give this as just one example - there are others, and, because of this, it's not hard to see why a casual onlooker may see Nazism as right wing. I would also respectfully argue against your statement that Hitler espoused anti-Christian rhetoric. His argument with Christianity seemed to be aimed at the institute of the Catholic Church rather than at the religion itself and therefore it would be hard to tell if his views on the subject were left or right.

Incidentally, on reading Mein Kampf, one can't help but view Hitler as a right-winger purely by the language and manner that he uses although this didn't always translate into Nazi Party policy. That said, he contradicts himself so many times in it's pages, it's difficult to get any true sense of his political leanings!


Summararily, I would personally say that Nazism cannot sit on either the Left or the Right - it was a hybrid mish-mash of policies and as such contained elements of both.

Russian tanks invaded Georgia within 5 hours of the Georgians going into Ossetia. Everybody misses that point.

To mobilise 100 tanks takes far more than 5 hours.
This was a Russian coup. They were ready for invasion. Whatever lies they may state now, that's the fact.

The population of the Bakassi Peninsula was 90% Nigerian and they held Nigerian passports.
Should Bakassi have been handed over to Cameroon?

If the answer is "No", you can't claim that Ossetia should have seceded.

LOL. Only a Muslim could come up with this one!!!

Long before then, the European Christians have been making incursions, if you will, minor crusades, here and there in the Continental Europe.

"European Christians were making incursions in Continental Europe"

You could have written: "Africans have invaded Africa" or "Man steals his own property from his own house".

How can a people make "incursions" onto their own territory? And why would they be fighting on their own territory? Who would they be fighting?

Yep. They would be fighting an invader. That means they are defending their land from agression.

Trust a Muslim to turn Christian defence of one's own land into agression against Islam. Even when they admit to being in the wrong, they dress it up to try and make it look like it's not their fault.

There are reports that the Russians had already massed their army in South Ossetia before the Georgians retaliated against the seperatists. The speed at which the Russians managed to invade Georgia would seem to indicate that this was true.

So:

Ossetian seperatists shell Georgian border villages.
Georgia retaliates but then asks for a truce.
Ossetian seperatists refuse truce and carry on shelling.
Georgia attacks Ossetia.
Russia invades Georgia.

The first and last actions were made by Russia/Russian supported forces.
The whole thing looks like a Russian set-up to me. They encouraged the Ossetians to attack the Georgians and told them to refuse to negotiate and then invaded Georgia when they were forced to retaliate.

This had nothing to do with the West. The whole thing was run by the Russians so that they could annex Georgia's land.

ogb5. You ask -

and by the way did the russians tell you they want to annex south ossetia? they recognised their independence this week

The fact that the leaders of the breakaway area are now talking about becoming a part of Russia and not indepentant states means that this is annexation.

Regarding the missile defence system in Poland.

Russia doesn't regard it as a threat. It is merely something that they can whine about and use as a political tool.

It won't stop a single airbourne or submarine launched nuclear weapon - the optimum way of sending a nuclear payload.

@abdulreal.

First thing to do is ignore this shit quoted below.

And there are some things, like Zina, that are kept as a secret, away from mankind. When God covers your shame, you should not expose it to mankind. Getting a financee, a person whom you are not married to is a performance of Zina. You should have married her, the moment you are interetsed in each other, without, first the premarital sex.

People who talk for Allah giving self-righteous bullshit without knowing your true circumstances are the worst kind of preacher.
Second thing to do is look to yourself. Only you have the answers you need. Include your family as you already have done. They are normally good people to turn to for advice.

You are in my prayers, bro.

Best way to get to Heaven?

Do what you think is best. Live your life to do your best. Follow your heart. You already know what is right and what is wrong.

Other than that, don't worry a shit. It's all taken care of by the Guy upstairs.