₦airaland Forum

@ Cmanforall

Thanks again benodic.why do you think my soul wants to travel when  I have not done it before & don't know anything about it.why is it necessary to soul travel.

it is funny you using the term "my soul" as if soul is something you possess and the real you is the physical body. it is all part of the illusion of the lower worlds.

putting  it rightly the correct sequence is that you are SOUL.
Soul is created in the image and likeness of God with all the qualities of omnipresence, omniscience and omnipotence just like God.
then soul being immature and unaware of its qualities was sent down to the lower worlds by God to achieve spiritual maturity and in order for soul to exist in these lower worlds, it had to put on bodies.

these bodies included the etheric body which constitutes your intuitive faculty, the mental body which forms your mind, the causal body which stores the records of all your past lives, the astral body which forms your emotional body and then your physical body.
these bodies enable soul to exist in these lower worlds and have experiences which will enable it to develop Its full God-like qualities so that It can then become useful to God.

soul travel is a process through which soul communicates  with its creator.
every body soul travels because it is a natural part of soul. the only problem is that some do it unconsciously and others do it consciously.

as you continue growing spiritually a time comes when the real you soul yearns to go back  home to God. that is when the hunger for  soul travel consciously awakens in soul. then soul is seeking to find its way back to God. It is no longer just satisfied with what is written in a book or with what people are saying. it has heard the call of soul from God and wants to go home.

so you do not have to hear about it or know about it to do it. because it is a natural part of you.

it is necessary to soul travel because that is one of the ways you can get first hand information about the heavenly worlds and know whether they are real or not.

it is necessary to soul travel because with it you can meet your spiritual master who ever he is and have a one on one chat with him to clarify spiritual issues with him.

it is necessary to soul travel because with it you will lose the fear of death and the fear of the unknown. people who soul travel know exactly where they are going when their time on earth is up. they go there straight to continue their work for God.

it is necessary to soul travel because with it you will come to the knowledge that you are Soul an immortal spark of God and nothing can touch you and you exist because of God's love for you.

so my dear there is absolutely nothing to fear. truth finds you wherever you are and at whatever level you open your heart to It.

thanks

@ boule_blch

good evening Benodic,
how are you ? how is everything ?
I hope you don't forget me ?!

i am very fine indeed. of course i have not forgotten you. i am here at your service any time you need me.

Long time i don't come back in your topic, i take some time to try out, all the things we have talk about here.
I sang the secrets words two times in a day, for a small period, the first thing is that, after that, i have a great inner peace.

that is the peace that passeth all understanding. your inner self has started connecting to the holy spirit via your secret word and with it comes the assurance that all will be well.

The second thing is that the answers to the questions come to me, but not in meditation ! For example, when i have finished, i can take a book i was reading before, and the answer is in a chapter or a paragraph of the book ! Why the answer don't come to me directly through meditation ?

welcome to the world of the language of God. the language of God is in everything that is around us. that means that God will use the means that is most comfortable for you at that point in time to answer your question. the most important is that your question gets answered.

imagine God's voice coming directly to you in meditation to answer you. it may frighten you or you may doubt that it is really from God. so God knows you more than you know yourself and It will use what will match your state of consciousness at that point in time.
what you experienced, in Eckankar we know it as Golden Tongue wisdom or Waking Dream. when you acquire more spiritual strength to be able to withstand the pure vibrations that come from God you may be able to hear the still small voice talking to you very clearly without any fear. remember prophet samuel's experience in the bible. when he was confused when God was talking to him.

The third thing is that my dreams became more confused. I have so many dreams in a night that in the morning i can't remember nothing, or some few details. Why is it so ?

the problem is not your dreams. it is your mind inability to keep track of souls activities in the inner worlds.

you have to realize that you as soul are existing in many inner planes at the same time undergoing a lot of activities.
but the mind being so limited can not remember or even understand some of those activities.

sometimes your mind being a negative aspect of you may hide some important spiritual dreams from you thinking that remembering such dreams may give you a shock.
to go beyond the mind and retrieve those dreams you can immediately after waking up go into contemplation and sing your charged words. this practice can pry open the memories. then you can record them in a dream book.

In one of your post here, you were telling about God light between the two eyebrows, how can i distinguish God light from one of my chakra's vision ?

in Eckankar we do not deal with the lower chakras because they are not important. you concentrate your attention on the tisra till which is the point between the 2 eyebrows. that is the spiritual eye or the window of heaven.it is the starting point of spiritual travels. once you focus your attention here the light you see is the doorway to the heavenly world.

Since three or four years ago, when i do breathing exercise or when i speak in tongue, i use to see a blue light circle between my two eyebrows, but since one year, that light is red. But it soon vanished. Sometimes after the light come an image, an object image, or many images. Is it my imagination ? Or what that means ?

the blue light you used to see is one of the light of God. it is a highly spiritual light. it is the light you see in the 3rd heaven or mental plane which is the last plane before entering the pure spiritual heavens or the heavens or heavens or the soul plane.
in Eckankar we know that light as the blue light of the Mahanta. the Mahanta is the highest state of Consciousness on earth today. and its goal is to take all ready souls into the pure spiritual heavens back to their origin in the heart of God.

the red light also is one of the light of God. all those images and light you are seeing are real my dear. they are not just figments of your imagination.

soul is gathering itself getting ready for the sublime journey into the inner worlds. it can start as a light, a sound or an image then in a twinkling of an eye your consciousness will expand out of your physical body to the inner planes to see for yourself in full consciousness the vast panorama of God's mighty creations and planes. it is an experience beyond words

I hope you'll have time to give an answer to all these questions,

please feel free to ask. i will always have time to give my little input.

thanks

A Seed for Contemplation

We are Soul. This life is an opportunity for Soul to get rich experiences in any way that It can—uplifting, constructive experiences, the kind where we find ways to serve all of life.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul

Another quote

God is, and as soul you are, anything else you add reflects your state of consciousness.

KunleOshob (m)

@benodic
there are still quite a number of questions i would like to ask you but i guess i would take my time. for now i would like to ask ; what is the perfect will of God for us?

The perfect will of God for us is for us to finish our Education in the lower worlds by fully developing the quality of divine love then come back home to It and become co- workers with It.

and also what is eckankars attitude towards the christian concept of sin? or are there issues considered as sin in eckankar?

In Eckankar we do not work with the concept of sin as portrayed by Christians.
we work with the concept of the Law of Karma. that is the law of cause and effect. whatever you sow you will reap which Jesus succinctly pointed out in the christian bible that God is not mocked and that whatever any one sows that will the person reap.

in Eckankar we learn to take total responsibility for all our actions and that is the beginning of spiritual maturity. you and you alone are solely responsible for anything that happens in your life and if you do not like what you are seeing in your life then change your actions for Good.

that is why i as an Eckist can not go out of my way to harm anyone or to steal from someone. i do not need anyone to tell me or any book to tell me not to do evil to my fellow man. just do unto others as you will like them to do unto you. that is the guiding principle of Eckists.

i will be very happy to answer any question you have to the best of my ability. so feel free to ask away.

thanks

@ Cmanforall

Hi benodic,thanks for the reply & I must say your thread is interesting.from your reply to kunle oshod you talked about a light,well I have 2 experiences with something like a light(don't really know).the 1st happened while praying alone in my house,can't really explain but I know I saw a light,opened my eyes then it was gone.the 2nd was in church,during praise & worship songs.when I closed my eyes I saw a light shaped like a circle(or something)& I think it was moving.don't know how long I stirred at the light but later it was like my head wanted to move(don't know may b into the light)or something wanted to leave my body.before water pass garri I opened my eyes,I have not thought about it until now & I know am not making sense.But if this is the light do you mean I can ask questions.

congratulations my guy. the gate of heaven was just opened for you unfortunately you were afraid.
the light you saw in your inner vision is the light of God i have been talking about. for us in Eckankar it is a common experience and we embrace the experience with joy and with no fear.

the second experience was actually the real you soul preparing to leave the physical body to step into the heavenly worlds. which we call soul travel.
this is the experience i have been talking about all this while. it is the beginning of spiritual adventure. my dear just go forward there is nothing to fear. next time you have the experience just relax and let it flow. if fear wants to creep in say within you let the will of God be done.
you can call for your spiritual master and ask him any question you want to ask him. truth is given to anyone who is ready for it.

To be honest am not a fan of soul travel,Jesus said nothing about it but like you said its not about right or wrong but love & charity.

really there are lots of things christians do not know about Jesus. Jesus was a soul traveler and not just that he had the ability to lift people out of the body to have spiritual experiences too. unfortunately at the time Jesus was talking about the kingdom of God which is within every body and here and now, people were only interested in the restoration of the physical kingdom of Israel and so were not really comprehending what he was telling them.

for you to experience and have knowledge of spiritual reality you have to go into the heavenly worlds as soul and see things for yourself. there all speculations end.
you can have a one on one chat with your spiritual master Jesus and ask him directly what you want to ask him and then hear from the horse's mouth what actually happened and which one was fabricated. then you become the knower and not just a believer. and your experiences become your authority and not what is written in a book.

feel free to ask any further question you have.
thanks

@ rover321

wonderful post. i salute you.

but unfortunately far from reality. the ideals of love has been destroyed by religious bigotry and the gospel of my God is bigger that your God and the doctrine of God has sent me to kill all unbelievers and infidels.

but there is still hope for humanity. as one candle is lighted in the middle of the gloom it will gradually spread its light and light up other candles until the darkness of ignorance, hatred, envy, bitterness and divisions are gradually swept away from from our reality.

A Seed for Contemplation

A healing can happen instantly. Or it may happen in other ways, such as when an individual comes in contact with another person who says, "Hey, here is something which may help you." It’s still up to the individual to open his consciousness and accept the different way of doing things.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul

A Seed for Contemplation

Life is a series of interconnected wheels. Very little can happen to you without it being known ahead of time by you. All you have to do is learn to be aware.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul

@ e36991

it is very good that you are catching the fun. and of course i am 100% naija. i am surprised you did not feel the naija vibes all this while.

so far so good. we are making progress. so now from your explanations there are 2 holding places. hades for the bad guys and paradise for the good guys. and the 2 does not meet as there is a demarcation. okay

with that taken care of lets go to the issue of reincarnation.

in the doctrine of reincarnation, souls are sent to the earth to learn lessons and grow to spiritual maturity. after a soul drops the physical body in the process of death, It goes to the inner planes where it undergoes judgement. after that judgement if it is deemed that the soul has not completed its lessons it is compelled to come back and put on another physical body to continue its lessons from birth to death.

now before the coming of christianity to naija it was a well known fact amongst our people that reincarnation exists. in fact we took it for granted. and in my place a lot of interesting cases pointing to reincarnation abound. i too had my own experiences i remembered my past life.

so the question i want to ask is that how does reincarnation fit in with this your holding place theory or is reincarnation the work of the devil as most christians will put it

(or is it a case of souls who escaped from the holding place for another round of fun on earth) this one is a joke oh

i will gladly like to see your input on this. no assumptions this time.

@ e36991

The christian label assumption for starters - Dont know you that christian is not the zenith of a believer

so educate me please what is the zenith of a believer. i am all ears

The JW assumption . .

.

you can't blame me there as that is exactly the same thing they preach. i.e the holding place theory

The holding place assumption - Finding it incredible that:

"Paul, all the Romans that killed him, together with all the Jews and Romans that crucified Jesus" can be in a holding place together

what do you think will happen if ken saro wiwa sees Abacha who killed him in the holding place? don't you think he will like to get even resulting in chaos?

The assumption that  ". . . both the good and bad in the same place . . ."

you did say that they are all in the holding place together

No one is feeling threatened or intimidated. Dont fall for another assumption there.

this one definitely is not an assumption. it is what i have seen in many  christians that i tried discussing with. i was not referring to you

Your posting are respectfully read with due considerations and thoughtful regard

that is why i said that you are different. i find it difficult to believe these posts have lasted this long

You show your hand and I'll give as good as I get. Whats wrong with that eh?

please my dear it is not a boxing match and there is no trophy for the winner.

I've told where Paul is.

If you beg to differ then volunteer where he is, instead of a wisecrack

i could imagine Paul's face if he were to read what you wrote about him. how can i explain where paul is when you have said that nobody is in heaven yet.
and you went on to say that paul was confused when he saw a man caught up to the 3rd heaven.

that is why i said on a very serious note that you go ahead and ask the holy spirit. you know the unique thing about the Holy spirit is that once you are a sincere seeker of truth, it will gradually take you step by step through the various levels of truth and it will be done in such a natural way that you will understand and fully appreciate each level of truth that is presented before you.  

even better you can try asking paul himself. watch your experience. i am really serious. no jokes

@ e36991

@benodic

You arent half puzzling eh? . . .

Did I rile you up asking where Paul is?

sure you did not. but it actually sent me into bouts of

I have deliberately been overlooking each of the assumptions you continually make in your postings

pray , kindly enlighten me on the assumptions i have been continually making in my postings

You should have queried on, ask further what the holding place is etc . . .

i thought you have actually answered that. a waiting place as you succinctly put it with both the good and bad in the same place

.

You didn't, so, you were given the chance, to reveal where Paul presently is, if otherwise, he is not in a holding place

you tell me

but you opted for a patronised mediocre response tinged with sarcasm. Tut-tut-tut, tut-tut . . .

sorry if you saw it that way. i was really serious.
no sarcasm or patronizing meant. because that was really how my quest for these mysteries i am asking you about started.
i also realized that you do not get answers to such serious questions from a book or from what anyone is telling you. you really have to let go of all pre-conceived notions and ask God directly.
why is it so difficult for Christians to do that? why do Christians feel threatened when they come across someone who does so.

Fun? By the looks of it, it seems its you having all the fun.

you bet. i am really enjoying myself. usually i do not bother to have this kind of conversation i am having with you. i just sensed you were a bit different from the usual run of the mill christians. no offense meant.

KunleOshob (m)

Quote
Although Twitchell founded Eckankar in 1965, Eckists claim that the basis for the Eckankar teachings date back to the beginning of human life.

According to Doug Marman, Twitchell sourced many modern and ancient religious teachings in his creation of the Eckankar Teaching, but the main sources appear to be Sufism and a little-known teaching in India called "The Parent Faith". (This is where other light and sound teachings, such as Sant Mat and Surat Shabd Yoga also derived their roots.)

Eckankar headquarters were originally in Las Vegas, Nevada. Under the leadership of Darwin Gross, the organization was moved to Menlo Park, California in 1975. In 1986, Harold Klemp moved the base of operations to Minnesota, where it remains today.

Eckankar was founded as a business; however, the Panel of Administrators urged Twitchell to conform to usual standards, and the teaching was later registered as a non-profit organization. Eighteen years later, in 1983, Harold Klemp changed it to a recognized religious institution. Currently, Eckankar is accepted as a religion by the U.S. Army,[14] the Boy Scouts of America, and many other public institutions.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckankar

@benodic
I just did some research on eckankar on the internet and came up with the above highlighted. How do you react to that as we all know very well that religion and business don't mix.

before Paul Twitchell externalized the teachings of Eckankar, the message of the light and sound was mainly given in the inner planes to those who were able to travel to the temples in the inner planes to access it.
so Paul Twitchell was given the mandate to bring together the scattered teachings of the light and sound of God and present it in a platform where the teachings will be pure and separated from social trappings which is what you find in most other groups.
. so Paul was faced with the problem of getting out this message to those who were ready for it. the main problem in the beginning was funding as the members were so few.

so Paul had to run Eckankar as a business organization which concentrated mainly in raising money from selling the books and discourses he was writing. when enough money had been raised to sustain the organization it was no longer necessary to continue as such.

this is all part of the physical evolution of the religion Eckankar. but you have to understand that purpose of the outer organization in whatever form that it presents itself is to help souls who are ready for the next step in their spiritual evolution to be able access enough information to enable them go into the inner temples where the real journey begins.

@ e36991

Hmm-mm, that is right, everyone is in the holding place, pending or waiting

I have no beef with 2nd Corinthians 12:2-4 . . . except its about paradise

So tell me where is Paul now?

i am surprised that you are asking me where Paul is. According to you he should be in the holding area together with all the  Romans that killed him and also together with all the Jews and Romans that crucified Jesus.

even if i tell you where he is will you believe me?

i will give you a tip. ask the holy spirit in prayer with an open heart and with no preconceived notions.
remember that Jesus said in the bible that the holy spirit will lead us to all truth. so go ahead and ask the holy  spirit. It will reveal the truth about Paul's whereabouts to you if you are ready for it.

have fun in your quest.

KunleOshob (m)

@benodic
I just listened to the HU song on youtube and it's just one long huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu, do you guys take breaks to breath at all when singing it? It seems like a song that would like one out of breath.

. very funny indeed. if it was the way you think it is then all of us would have left the physical plane by now.

the reason it sounded like that is that a lot of people were singing it at the same time.
when you are singing it alone you take in a deep breath then on the out ward breath you sing the word in a long drawn out way as long as the breath can carry.
then you take a deep breath again and do it over and over again. for not more that 20 minutes. or if you have a subtle feeling to stop.

then you go into a quite contemplation for some time. during the contemplation period you listen for the sound and look into the space between your 2 eyebrows. look for the light. you can also ask any question you need answers to this period. then remain silent and listen.

@ e36991

@benodic

I know which Vine I am a branch of . . .

Fear not, I am not a JW

besides havent you heard, that there are no denominations in the Kingdom of Heaven?

i am hearing a lot of interesting things from you. so there are no denominations in the kingdom of heaven? interesting.

so back to the topic we were discussing. now we have arrived at the conclusion which you proffered that in this holding area that everybody is there. all the souls who have ever stepped their feet on earth and passed on are still in this holding place.

so what i want to ask now is what do you make of the statement that st paul made in 2nd corinthians chapter 2: 2-4. where he was talking about a man caught up to the 3rd heaven. so how comes someone went to the 3rd heaven if according to you everybody is in a holding area.
mind you i am taking this example from your christian bible as i do not want bother you with other seemingly unverified sources.

@ e36991

Affirmative. Roger nobody yet is in hell and nobody yet has entered heaven.

this your answer has made me very curious as to what branch of Christianity you are affiliated to. this sounds like Jehovah witness doctrine. are you a Jehovah witness?

A Seed for Contemplation

Those with pure love do all they can to let their mates grow in every way. Detached love means to let others exist without forcing our will upon them. That is spiritual love.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul

@ e36991

@benodic

Yes, it does hold everyone in the same place together (i.e. a holding place)

very interesting indeed. so what you are saying is that from the beginning of time all the people who have come to the earth and have died are all in this holding place? nobody yet is in hell and nobody yet has entered heaven?

@ e36991

you are so full of surprises. and i can see that you are not the ordinary run of the mill christian. i know a lot of christians who will never talk to me for life again if they read what i wrote to you.
so i am surprised at the way you took it. that shows quite a large measure of maturity. maybe we have some things to share indeed. i am even surprised that you replied on it as you see i clearly deleted the parts i deemed offensive as i didn't want to offend you.

but towards the end of your last post you started coming closer to what i was expecting. you read the scriptures, you assimilate it and then you tune in to the holy spirit to make some sense of what you read. that to me is a very important step.
so finally you gave an answer in your own words. quite a relief.
so a holding place you said. so in this holding place does it hold both the good and bad people in the same place together?

KunleOshob (m)  

@benodic
Thanx, the example of Paul is really a eye opener. I have always known that the early church fathers [catholic church in particular] hid away a lot of things from mainstream christianity. I also know a number of books considered scriptural by the early church were deliberately omitted from the bible for various reasons amongst which were that some books were considered exclusive to those with higher spiritual calling. Anyway I would still keep an open mind but I am very skeptical about dabbling into the spiritual realm even though I strive to know God better.

no problem bro. take your time. there is really no need for hurry. do what feels comfortable for you. at any time you are ready for any level of truth it will be revealed to you in a manner that will suit your state of consciousness. so there is nothing to worry about. just give love to all life and do no harm to anyone. you will be okay

KunleOshob (m)

@benodic
I have been following this thread quitely for a while now and i must commend that your conduct and your teachings are really quite inspiring. Infact i must admit you have gotten me very curious and wishing to learn more about eckankar however i am very skeptical of delving into the spiritual or inner planes. Cos i am not really sure as humans it is God's will for us or if it is necessary. Also i know that dabbling into such can be very dangerous. Aside that i draw my inspiration strictly from the teachings of christ[not the entire bible] and all these soul travel stuff are alien to christ's teachings although i must admit that a lot of of eck teachings especially in the area of love conforms to the teaching of christ. I would want to know more but i am not ready to try any spiritual exercise or sing the "HU" song as it does not conform to my limited understanding of the what God expects of us.

i can understand your point of view perfectly. it is really okay. it is not a must that one must delve into the spiritual realms before he or she can be spiritual.
i have said earlier that the purpose of all those experience is to help you develop more love for God which is the ultimate. but you have to know that soul travel is really not alien from the teachings of christ just that it has been swept under the carpet because the clergy felt threatened by it.
St paul was a very avid soul traveler who we know very well in Eckankar. he was actually talking about himself when he wrote in the letter to corinthians.

An Epistle of the Apostle Paul, included in the New Testament, contains an explicit reference to the Third Heaven. In a letter to the Corinthian church he writes, "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell." (2 Corinthians 12:2-4. ( culled from wikipedia)

no matter how people try to explain it this was a classical case of soul travel. but you have to understand that Paul was dealing with people whose state of consciousness was so low that he really had problems explaining some concepts to them.

a simply exercise like before sleeping ,asking God to please reveal the truth about life to you is all you need to get you started.

it is not a must that you should sing a spiritual word. all you need is a sincere and open heart. God will meet you at your comfort zone.
after asking God to show you Truth, you can start by watching your dreams. dreams is one of the way that God communicates easily and naturally with soul. there is really nothing to fear.

thanks and take care.

@ e36991

i did not see the hyperlinks in those quoted verses. i have finally read through them.

sorry it definitely did not answer my questions. this is the funny thing with you Christians. ask a christian a question , he/she will simply quote verses of the bible and leave you high and dry.
can you give me answers in your own words for a change? make your answers clear and easily understandable. you must really be a very funny guy

@ LoveKing (m)

I remember way back when i was searching for some answers then i came in contact within Eck. Though i didnt really fraternize but i sang the HU song just once, one night. The vibrations that night was so negative, though i wanted to see your Eck master, but how i left that nightmare was something else

when you first start singing the HU, the pure spiritual vibrations enter into your being and start the process of spiritual purification. the clash between the pure spiritual vibrations entering into your being and the heavy negativity embedded in your mind and body gives rise to the harsh experience you had.

i also went through the same experience in the beginning. if you continue doing the spiritual exercises, the purification process continues and the heaviness and negativity in you is gradually cleared then you will start seeing the light and hearing the sound of God.

nothing that is impure can stand in the presence of God. that is why the purification process is very important. that is why only the bold and courageous can see the face of God.

Secondly, who is Parsifal, who is Queen Elizabeth, queen of Heaven? Who is Jesus Christ to Abd rushin, is he the one coming again or Parsifal?

sorry i have no idea. may be you can direct this question to the adherents of grail message in NL. Just cool is one of them and M. Nwankwo. they may have an idea

Thirdly, my mentor who had advanced in degrees once told me he had met with Harold klemp in the Celestial Heights and Harold showed some signs of weakness and over burden. Have you met him in your numerous astrals?

you have to realize that you do not take what you see in the inner worlds literally. you have to contemplate on what the master is trying to communicate to you. and most things you see is talking about you and not the person you are seeing. using the principle of what you see in others is a reflection of what you are.
i do see Harold in my soul travel and contemplations and he always help to clear up any questions i have about life. we do not do astral travel in Eckankar.

@ chieveboy

Alright, Thanks allot! its ok by me. l'll use the singing for a start, hopefully l'll get mastery of soul travel-and become a knower, you see l feel worthless anytime l think of something l feel is fundamental to me; about life, but helpless regarding their meaning, significance and reason. I've rummaged the net; and tossed about by false astrologers-am Sagittarius you know.
Am an ambitious person! but I'm constantly haunted by a streak of retrogression which l find unusual and outrightly unfair! l dislike ignorance to the core! l have an open mind-its why l believe 'benodic the Eckist'-but restricted by an innate obligation to faithfulness and honesty: some one told me in a dream that 'there's a gate l need to pass through" and that" l need confidence", lately it's being difficult 'conjuring' love in my heart--but am working on it, using unsolicited smiles-- so its going to be one heck of a ride l guess!, L-O-V-E Undecided, anyway just be around for people like me man, the truth is not far-fetched! Cool

welcome to spirituality 101. that gate you need to pass through is your spiritual eye. the gate way to the heavenly worlds.

you really need a lot of confidence to take that step. only the bold and courageous find the narrow gate that leads to the heavenly worlds here and now.
it is going to take dedication, love, courage, determination, consistency and lots of patience to walk through that gate. and once you do, your life will never be the same again. you will never need anyone again to tell you what God is or what God is not. you will never need any book either to tell you how to live your life.

you will become an inner directed soul that follows the will of the holy spirit without any compromise. and remember help is always at hand if you ask for it. and of course i will always be here to help in my own little way.

Mad_Max (f)

Hiya, benodic. How've you been?

i have been very fine indeed. thanks for asking

I listen seriously to what you say about your experiences. Forgive me if I don't extend the same to things you didn't witness and so can't offer as fact. I respect that you may believe as you choose, however. Paul Twitchell, when he founded Eckanker, made quite a few claims. The thing about claims is, no one lives in a vacuum. There's an entire world of observers around us. Twitchell's claims were investigated and some found to be untrue. Perhaps he said some things to give what was, at the time, a new religious movement, some glamour and mystery. But it's unnecessary, don't you think?

i can understand. but there is one thing you have to understand about me. i have no time for religious academics. what matters to me is the core of the religion. the question is can that religion make me a better person. can it take me closer to God. if it can do that then that is what matters to me. so whether paul twitchell added glamour and mystery to me is totally inconsequential. what matters to me is that doing the spiritual exercises as outlined by Eckankar has given experiences which my 20 years of search in other religions could not give me and it has also made me a more loving and caring person. that to me is what matters.

Harold Klemp, current Eck master, admitted Twitchell made some false claims but he says it has nothing to do Eckanker itself, as the religion is distinct from any one individual.  That makes sense. Klemp's moderation and unflinching honesty earned my respect. You've quite a leader in him.

every Eck Master has a role to play in any era of human existence that he finds himself. He does what has to be done to bring the light and sound of God to souls who are ready for it. when his tenure is up he hands over to the next Eck Master. the focus is always on the Holy spirit which is the Eck which will lead you to all truth.

I hope you're secure enough in your beliefs to not overreact at any slight negative and take it as some sort of 'attack.' It's not

.  

there you go again making me laugh. beliefs indeed. in Eckankar we do not work with beliefs. you must go beyond belief. that is why in Eckankar we tell you not to believe anything we tell you. you must experience truth for yourself for you to become a knower.
then nobody can shake you on what you know. if any one likes he or she can abuse Eckists or Eckankar. the only reaction you will get from us is nothing but laughter.
we know what we know and nothing can take it from us. i have attended Eckankar introductory programs where we were stoned by christians but we did not consider it as anything to bother us. and it did not stop us from giving them love. it is just a matter of ignorance.

Can I ask you to elaborate more on the differences between astral travel and soul travel? I thought they were the same. Why is astral travel 'dangerous'?

for you to understand the difference you have to know our inner make up. we are essentially souls created in the image and likeness of God.  as soul we are like God in every sense. we have the qualities of omnipresence, omnipotence and omniscience.

soul travel uses the quality of omnipresence. as soul we can be anywhere simply by expanding our consciousness to that place. it is a very natural way for soul to travel. you do not need to leave your physical body to do that. and you can be aware of more than 2 places at the same time. soul travel can take you to the different planes including the soul plane.

in order for soul to be able to exist in the lower worlds it puts on bodies. the bodies that soul wears are the etheric body, mental body, causal body, astral body and then the physical body.

in astral travel,  soul wearing the astral body detaches from the physical body and moves around the physical and astral plane. astral travel is limited. it can not take the person beyond the astral plane. and also when the person leaves the physical body, the physical body is unguarded and any entity can enter the physical body in the person's absence leading to madness.
that is why we do not practice astral travel in Eckankar.

if you have any other questions feel free to ask. i will be glad to be of help.

@ e36991

i really like your sense of humour. keep it coming please. it is so refreshing.

so from what you have said so far ghost are products of disembodied spirits especially demons, evil spirits etc. so what produces the haunting phenomenon. where people see someone who has died before coming back to the place it used to live and tormenting the people there. and also the phenomenon of someone who has died appearing another place and even having a new family. how is that possible?
and also you did not answer my last question concerning the meaning of the scripture you quoted from daniels. people who are dead are they holed up in the dust of the earth waiting for the last judgement? please if there is any verse you are quoting from the bible try to write it out as i do not have the christian bible to look it up. thanks

@ inedi

Quote from: benodic on February 07, 2011, 12:34 PM
@ Jenwitemi
nice contribution. whose truth indeed.

but of course i do not expect them to understand. so far as one  has bottled himself up in a book he will not be able to see the truth standing right in front of him.

the  paradox to the whole christian unbeliever nonsense is that why is it then that i who do not believe in the christian doctrine am enjoying a much closer relationship with God than i ever did as a christian believer.

when i pray to God i ask for God's will to be done in my life and i ask God to manifest what i need in my life if it is for the good of all life. i do not command God to do this or do that for me because i know that Its wisdom surpasses our puny little human understanding.

the point i want to make in effect is this. God listens to everyone's prayer be you a christian, a moslem, a hinduist or an atheist etc. it does not matter to God. and It also answers all prayers from all souls. though the answer may come in a form that you are not expecting. why? because It loves all life equally.
it is us humans who create religions and go ahead to classify people into believers and unbelievers and create imaginary favorites for God.
the closer you come to God the more your heart opens to Its divine love and gradually the narrow minded judgmental attitudes that we carry which are products of the mind drops and we become like little children who lives in the moment and accept people the way they are. without judging them or classifying them.

well the ony thing i have to tell is that one of the best thing God has given to mankind is the will power to make choices. the bible in Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day agaist you, that i have set before you life and death, blessings and cursind:therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.

when you are ready to stop quoting scriptures and start making serious spiritual inquiries within yourself. we can then talk.

for now enjoy your holy book.

@ e36991

and please kindly enlighten us with where hades is located.

and if souls are really hanging there waiting for the final judgement day how come there are still ghosts hanging around the world.

or is it that the security in hades is lax and some souls can escape and come to earth to torment people for a while before they are sent back?

@benodic

". . . ghosts hanging around the world"? Shocked Shocked Shocked Grin

You humored me and made me guffaw in aramaic Grin Grin

Please do not make the mistake. Ghosts and the dead are separate kettle of fish . . .

Ghosts have zero correlation with the dead except for one who is gullible and easy to take advantage of . . .

Moving on, I'll indulge you on the hades poser and volunteer this reference (i.e. Daniel 12:2)

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt"
- Daniel 12:2 KJV

it is refreshing to jist with a christian with a sense of humour. so in terms of ghosts you say they are different from the dead. so pray what is your take on ghosts. what do you understand by the word ghost and how are they different from the dead?
so from the passage you just read, taking it literalily does it then mean that those that are dead are trapped in the dust of the earth awaiting the judgement day? expantiate please

@ chieveboy

, ok l get it! but l need you to understand that l will do my possible best; but within the confines of Christianity, l'm born again and kind of in a binding agreement with christ. I believe if l turn an Eckist, l'm guilty of unfaithfulness. You guys have almost all l'm looking for admittedly; but l've got to trust, obey and be faithful! Thanks.

my dear you do not have to leave christianity and become an Eckist for you to know and experience truth.

truth finds you at whatever level you are. all you need is an open and loving heart. the HU song i gave you to try does not belong to any religion and does not make you a member of Eckankar either. it is God's gift to all souls to use in finding their way back to their creator.

you can also try singing other holy names like JESUS, GOD, CHRIST etc. as a love song. while singing it close your eyes and fill your heart with love. look into the space between your two eyebrows and watch out for the light of God and listen for the still small voice or other sounds of God that can come unexpectedly to give you spiritual upliftment. your experience then becomes your authority.

you can then become the knower and not just the believer.

@ e36991

Quote from: benodic on Today at 01:09:47 PM

@ e36991

i thought you christians has made it perfectly clear that once somebody does not believe in jesus christ such a person is going straight to hell.

so are you saying that nobody is in hell yet? or that people will enter hell after the final judgement?

if so are you saying that souls are hanging somewhere waiting for the final jugement?

and if so where are they hanging waiting for this final judgement.

waiting your response.

@benodic

Hades

and please kindly enlighten us with where hades is located.
and if souls are really hanging there waiting for the final judgement day how come there are still ghosts hanging around the world.
or is it that the security in hades is lax and some souls can escape and  come to earth to torment people for a while before they are sent back?

@ e36991

Quote from: benodic on Today at 01:09:47 PM

@ e36991

i thought you christians has made it perfectly clear that once somebody does not believe in jesus christ such a person is going straight to hell.

so are you saying that nobody is in hell yet? or that people will enter hell after the final judgement?

if so are you saying that souls are hanging somewhere waiting for the final jugement?

and if so where are they hanging waiting for this final judgement.

waiting your response.

@benodic

Hades

and please kindly enlighten us where hades is located.