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Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 12:28pm On Sep 02, 2013*

benalvino: [size=18pt]You seem to drag me back all the time... Jesus was not a servant from the get go... Angels are created as servants... Jesus created them all... the bible says he was in the form GOD... angels was in the form SERVANTS...[/size] SOo Jesus Made him Self Servant... This alone has Shown that Jesus Shares same Nature as His father and not the Angels...

I have told you... Humans and animals are physical with flesh... But One is called animals and the other is called Humans... and Guess what... We are not of same nature... But same substance. Simple.

Till you get this into your Head you will keep making ridiculous statements like animals are the sons of men.

LIE! BIG TIME LIE,

OK, YOU CHANGE TO USE OF SERVANT? YOU WILL MEET ME THERE; you are going to be tired of yourself with enough evidence you cant shove aside. here we go;

JESUS WAS GODS SERVANT RIGHT THERE IN HEAVEN, THIS IS OLD TESTAMENT ISAIAH ACCOUNT TESTIFIES JESUS IN SPIRIT FORM AS A SERVANT. dont think i have only malachi 3:1,

Again you fail to use the bible,

but here is old testament proof;

Isaiah 42:1-6 kjv

42[size=18pt] “Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,[/size]
My Elect One in whom My soul delights!
I have put My Spirit upon Him;
He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles
2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice,
Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed He will not break,
And smoking flax He will not quench;
He will bring forth justice for truth.
4 He will not fail nor be discouraged,
Till He has established justice in the earth;
And the coastlands shall wait for His law.”
5 Thus says God the Lord,
Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it,
Who gives breath to the people on it,
And spirit to those who walk on it:
6 [size=18pt]“I, the Lord, have called You in righteousness,
And will hold Your hand;
I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people,
As a light to the Gentiles,[/size]

these statements were made to jesus for Gods sake, while in heaven in spirit form when God could have said 'O God the son'

but rather God used my servant,

[size=18pt] “I, the Lord, have called You in righteousness,“Behold! My Servant whom I uphold...bring forth justice to the Gentiles[/size]

compare this to what the spirit angel said to john when john wanted to show a sign of respect by bowing;

revelation 22:9;

"And he saith unto me, See thou do it not

[size=18pt]I am a fellow-servant with thee[/size] and with thy brethren the prophets, and with them that keep the words of this book: worship God".

if Angel are Gods servant

And God was calling jesus above 'servant' not yet here on EARTH but BUT RIGHT THERE IN HEAVEN,

what further proof do you want to be convinced that, jesus as Gods servant in heaven RIGHTLY FITS IN YOUR EARLIER SAY THAT ANGELS ARE SERVANTS.

AND IF GOD CALL JESUS 'servant' not yet here on EARTH but still RIGHT THERE IN HEAVEN,

it shows that jesus is A SPIRIT SERVANT ANGEL/MESSENGER/SERVANT NOT equal with GOD, Evidence above said it all.

malachi 3:1 'messenger/Angel of covenant' in heaven

isaiah 42:6 'servant and covenant to the gentiles'

i will still not be surprised if you change this topic as usual,NOTE what we are discussing now was that jesus was never GODS SERVANT RIGHT THERE IN HEAVEN.

OYA CHANGE TOPIC AS USUAL AND DIVERT OYAAAA grin

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 11:41am On Sep 02, 2013

JESUS AS A MAN,(note the change in natures) Now TOOK A PHISICAL FORM IN (1)below (from (2(#g)above

[b]The two distinct categories of forms which falls under the (later usage) blanket name of 'spirit'

1, phisical beign/form/nature;human/animals= they breath air, and so the air/wind/breeze they breath sustains their body,keep it alive.
2, supernatural beigns/form/nature; God,angels,word,satan/demons= who are resides in air,breeze/wind and invisible

no wonder hebrew 2:9

King James Bible
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels [/b]for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

statements below compared;

[b]''took the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men''.phil 2:7

"who was made a little lower than the angels" hebrews 2:9

agrees with (1) above 1, phisical beign/form/nature;human/animals= they breath air, and so the air/wind/breeze they breath sustains their body,keep it alive.

so, if jesus was lower than the angels during all his eathly course then he cant be equal 'at the same time with the father'

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 11:38am On Sep 02, 2013

Philippians 2:7

but made himself nothing, [size=18pt]taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.[/size]

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 11:19am On Sep 02, 2013

Philippians 2:5,6

(5),Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in [size=18pt] Christ Jesus, (6) who, although He existed in the form of God,[/size] did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

JESUS IN (1)below as SUPERNARURAL SPIRIT/FORM/NATURE SHARED WITH GOD AND ANGELS WHILE IN HEAVEN; (Philippians 2:5,6)

[size=18pt]2(#G)[/size]

since the english word spirit was originally derived from latin word 'spiritus'=breath equivalent with the greek word pneo,which is the root to pne.uma which also corresponds with hebrew ruach,while neshama(inspiration) was opposite of ruach see 2(#f)

then we can establish two distinct categories of forms which falls under the (later usage) blanket name of spirit,note that spirit is used by the english translators later to be a blanket accomodating all various kinds of persons(supernatural/phisical human/animal)
just the way the word 'Lord' could accomodate different
things;God,jesus,court judges,husbands etc. however it is very easy for TRINITARIANS TO TURN YOU AROUND HIDDING UNDER THE BLANKET NAME 'LORD' but by sticking to the root derivative will keep argument in focus. because they are confused people on their own, so they want people to be like them, hence they attack anyone who has the got to explain into details by mischieviously forcing the argument back to the same point 'lord' so that anything can be lord even a he goat will be 'lord' to a she goat, grin

thats trinitarians for you!

nevertheless we should not forget the root of english 'spirit' derived from latin which means 'breath'

the blanket word 'spirit' could also by analogy accomodates humans,angels,God,satan/demons etc, ..but in what respect?

The two distinct categories of forms which falls under the (later usage) blanket name of 'spirit'

1, phisical beign/form/nature;human/animals= they breath air, and so the air/wind/breeze they breath sustains their body,keep it alive.
2, supernatural beigns/form/nature; God,angels,word,satan/demons= who are resides in air,breeze/wind and invisible

the difference in 1, and 2, above is that

a, (one) relied on a portion of (two) to sustain its phisical body,

b, (two) does not need any portion of (one) to sustains his supernatural form

so, 2 is independent on 1, but 1 is dependent on 2.

therefore

Angels BY DEFAULT belong to 2 above,

jesus(word)by default (as a spirit in heaven)also belong to 2 above before he came to the earth.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 11:15am On Sep 02, 2013*

benalvino: Simply illogical...

So tell me How is the word messenger applied to Men and animals different?

[size=18pt]until you answer the question that BACK UP THE USE OF MESSENGER FROM THE BIBLE,clearly animals did not enjoy beign called messengers, and you fail to show just one verse to prove your point, i have back up mine with 2 verses. i have been very consistent with the use of bible.[/size]

you can see what the trinity confusion has caused you!

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 10:52am On Sep 02, 2013*

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 10:30am On Sep 02, 2013

and IF YOU FAIL TO BRING THEM ON, then you have to automatically accept the extent of those included as the bible 'messenger' which is different from 'any messenger' pigeon and dogs were NOT used,

so we cannot question Why God does not inspire his scripture writers to include animals as 'messenger' in bible's own aggellos[/b]you either accept that or remain annoyed for that exclusion.

Animals are categorised with humans in my post [b]2(#g)above

BERNIMOORE:( from[b]2(#g)[/b])The two distinct categories of forms which falls under the (later usage) blanket name of 'spirit'

1, phisical beign/form/nature;human/animals= they breath air, and so the air/wind/breeze they breath sustains their body,keep it alive.

2, supernatural beigns/form/nature; God,angels,word,satan/demons= who are resides in air,breeze/wind and invisible

Animals belong to the nature in (1) above, to the extent that they share the phisical nature of humans,AND they 'breathe' air/ which is 'invisible' and depend on breathing the invicible 'air' to suvive,

no wonder the book of righly says this

Ecclesiastes 3:18-21

"sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.” 19 For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. 21 Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?
but then, animals were not listed or enjoy the benefit of being listed amomg 'bible messengers'

conclusion on why dogs and pigeons are not listed amomg 'bible messengers'

it is simply because the 'bible messengers' are those whose task is to declare good news of Gospel, different from 'other messengers' sent on errands not connected to the Gospel

can you question God about the scriptures omission of animals in their defination? if even if you do, it amounts to nothing and irrelevant striving after winds grin

lets go now!

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 9:50am On Sep 02, 2013

benalvino: You still dont have say... we are all angels... even the pigeon. the dogs are all messenger... so whats your argument?

you have to recognise and respect the fact that you are discussing a religious matter here. and so,

bible 'messenger' is different from 'any messenger'

pigeon and dogs were NOT used or refer anywhere as messenger, if you come across any in the bible, bring it up, and let us see 'aggelloss' or 'malawk' used for the animals.

Note;

that 'bible messenger' are those whose task is to declare good news of Gospel, different from 'other messengers' sent on errands not connected to the Gospel

this is what i mean, i can provide you easily with a verse where human like you john was refered as 'my messenger' using aggellos which falls within 'bible messenger' and not 'any messenger'

Matthew 11:10
10 This is he of whom it is written,
q“ ‘Behold, I send my messenger'(aggellos)' before your face,
who will prepare your way before you.’

i can further provide you with a bible verse USING KING JAMES VERSION 1611, where paul use angel for himself without fear inanywaywhatsoever and there was no opposition from his hearers, he even paralleled the usage of angel 'aggellos' to jesus christ himself;

Galatians 4:14 kjv
'but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus'.

now, your assignment is;

provide us anywhere in the bible where 'messenger' was used for, animals.first, i need direct use of 'messenger' by animal in the bible, NOW

im waiting, dont tell us that you have pass there, your usual way of evading questions

im happy that people can really discern from this thread that the only problem you have is YOU. and your case can be likened to when someone is trying to fill a basket with water, it will never be filled.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 12:35am On Sep 01, 2013

benalvino: You still dont have say... we are all angels... even the pigeon. the dogs are all messenger... so whats your argument?

go back to 2(#g) you will get the answer there

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 12:34am On Sep 01, 2013

Joagbaje: The word means "minister " or messenger . So a christian minister who serves is an angel in this sense . It also means pastor .

Revelation 2:12
And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; . . . KJV

Revelation 2:12
"Write this letter to the leader of the church in Pergamos:. . .. LNT

[size=18pt]So we have the human angels by the virtue of their ministerial office and we have spiritual beings called angels who are spiritual servants
[/size]
Galatians 4:14
. .. but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 12:28am On Sep 01, 2013*

[size=18pt]2(#i)[/size]

benalvino: Resting your case without answering the question...

since Jesus name was not mentioned why you say him be angel?

[size=14pt]because you admitted that he was 'the messenger' which rightly corresponds the true meaning of Angel see 2(#g) in page 11 for angel defination[/size] cheesy

.

benalvino:

i have seen it and you did not make sense...

Malachi you quote john the baptist have earthly parents mother and father, therefore he is a messenger like elijah not like angel gabriel.
Jesus is also a messenger like elijah and not like Gabriel... he wasnt a spirit when he started his ministries on earth...
the messenger Yahweh says he will Send is John

"I will send my messenger[john the baptist], who will prepare the way before me[YHWH]. Then suddenly the Lord[jesus] you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger[jesus] of the covenant, whom you desire, will come," says the LORD Almighty

The voice of one crying in the wilderness: Prepare the way of the LORD[YHWH]; Make straight in the desert a highway for our God (Isa. 40:3).

In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the Desert of Judea and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near." This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah: 'A voice of one calling in the desert, 'Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him'" (Mt. 3:1-3).

According to Matthew, the prophet Isaiah wrote about John the Baptist, who was to prepare the way for the Lord, or as Isaiah wrote the LORD (YHWH). Yet, it was John who prepared the way for Jesus:
The bible says God manifest in the flesh, it says the word became flesh...

I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire (Mt. 3:11).

John prepared the way for Jesus, according to Matthew, but Isaiah says John, who he called the voice, prepared the way for YHWH!

let me explain again

“Behold, I send My messenger, and he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple, even the Messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,” says the Lord of hosts.

Behold, I send My messenger: This prophesied[b] messenger[/b] is none other than John the Baptist. Matthew 11:10, Mark 1:2, and Luke 7:27 each apply this promise to John the Baptist.

At the end of Malachi 2, Israel complained that God seemed to reward the wicked and did not exercise His justice in the world. God responds to their complaint by saying, “I will set things right with My Messiah, and before Him will come My messenger.”

And he will prepare the way before Me: In an ancient royal procession the messenger went before the King to announce his arrival, to indicate the route, and to remove any obstacles in the road. John the Baptist fulfilled this exact ministry for Jesus. The same idea is indicated in Isaiah 40:3-5.

God’s purpose for bringing this specific prophecy through Malachi in his day was probably because Israel complained that the Messianic promises of Haggai and Zechariah were not fulfilled. Here Malachi shows that the way for the Messiah must be prepared, and they aren’t ready yet.

Before Me: The Lord promises that He Himself will come - not merely a new or better prophet, but the Lord Himself.

Even the Messenger of the covenant: [size=18pt]This second messenger is the Lord Himself - Jesus [/size]coming to His temple as the fulfillment of the old covenant and [size=18pt]to institute a new[/size] covenant.
[/size]

[size=18pt]you admit that This second messenger is the Lord Himself - Jesus
[/size] grin

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 12:19am On Sep 01, 2013*

[size=18pt]2(#h)[/size]

benalvino: a trailer = car does not make a trailer an SUV
Both are called car but they are different kind of cars... if angel = messenger is your reason to put messenger there instead of angel... I want you to tell me how to know if hebrew is in reference to humans or the angels the question still comes

when the passage says messenger, what is it talking about as you say it is the correct translation
1: spirit like Gabriel
2: humans like elijah
3: pigeon

if he can answer this question then we can go on...

the funny thing is that he likes picking bible that has the wrong translation... the other 2 bibles that translate Malachi as angel that he claimed to be the most accurate because it thought they are older than King james didnt translate this passage as messenger... suddenly those are not accurate again but this YLT version which is the only bible that puts messenger there...

you people just like to look for wrong things that makes you guys look like you really have an argument...

The Question Which of the messenger is this YLT version talking about... the Host in Heaven? or the humans on earth?

oga truthislight can you answer this... please give me a direct answer.

Revelation 2:12

[size=18pt]King James Bible 1611

'And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write;[/size]
These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges';

Revelation 2:12
International Standard Version

[size=18pt]"To the messenger of the church in Pergamum, write:[/size] 'The one who holds the sharp, two-edged sword, says this:

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 11:25pm On Aug 31, 2013*

benalvino: the statement read that John the baptist Become a Messenger?

The bible says the WORD became flesh... [size=14pt]Did it state that Michael Became flesh?[/size]

we are still discussing in the old testament, christ pre human identity. he wasnt call 'jesus christ' in the whole OT.

[size=14pt]you are the one that just mentioned micheal now,to confuse y'self, not me! jesus christ was not mentioned too,in the whole old testament, so leave micheal out of this,and stop blabbing [/size] huh

so By you logic of Become... We all should Agree that John the Baptist had a pre-human state in Heaven...
So who was he?

diversion, you jump like toad,far more than frog grin

i dont swallow your concortions grin

as you claim because the bible did not use become so jesus most be an angel... Guess what it did not use become For John the baptist too...

so you hate 'become' grin

When malachi said I will send my messenger... Was John the baptist in Heaven? was he on earth? lol like i said before when did it say John become a messenger?

jesus was a messenger in heaven!

can you answer the questions?
Where did it say Michael became Jesus? or flesh?

[size=14pt]maybe until you tell us where thename 'jesus christ' his most popular name, was ever mentioned in old testament in during all his pre human activity, during the time he was BEFORE ABRAHAM, then i will just rest my case, answer now huh

[/size]

But the Verse in malachi isaiah Describe Jesus as YHWH. and not just once a couple of times...

Can you also tell me which of the Angel Did the Father beget?

really? yhwh indeed grin

messenger 'word'

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 9:22am On Aug 31, 2013

[size=14pt]Hebrew 1:5(YLT)

For to which of the messengers said He ever, 'My Son thou art -- I to-day have begotten thee?' and again, 'I will be to him for a father, and he shall be to Me for a son?'[/size]

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 8:50am On Aug 31, 2013*

benalvino:

i have seen it and you did not make sense...

Malachi you quote john the baptist have earthly parents mother and father, therefore he is a messenger like elijah not like angel gabriel.
Jesus is also a messenger like elijah and not like Gabriel... he wasnt a spirit when he started his ministries on earth...
the messenger Yahweh says he will Send is John

"I will send my messenger[john the baptist], who will prepare the way before me[YHWH]. Then suddenly the Lord[jesus] you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger[jesus] of the covenant, whom you desire, will come," says the LORD Almighty

The voice of one crying in the wilderness: Prepare the way of the LORD[YHWH]; Make straight in the desert a highway for our God (Isa. 40:3).

In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the Desert of Judea and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near." This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah: 'A voice of one calling in the desert, 'Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him'" (Mt. 3:1-3).

According to Matthew, the prophet Isaiah wrote about John the Baptist, who was to prepare the way for the Lord, or as Isaiah wrote the LORD (YHWH). Yet, it was John who prepared the way for Jesus:
The bible says God manifest in the flesh, it says the word became flesh...

I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire (Mt. 3:11).

John prepared the way for Jesus, according to Matthew, but Isaiah says John, who he called the voice, prepared the way for YHWH!

let me explain again

“Behold, I send My messenger, and he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple, even the Messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,” says the Lord of hosts.

Behold, I send My messenger: This prophesied[b] messenger[/b] is none other than John the Baptist. Matthew 11:10, Mark 1:2, and Luke 7:27 each apply this promise to John the Baptist.

At the end of Malachi 2, Israel complained that God seemed to reward the wicked and did not exercise His justice in the world. God responds to their complaint by saying, “I will set things right with My Messiah, and before Him will come My messenger.”

And he will prepare the way before Me: In an ancient royal procession the messenger went before the King to announce his arrival, to indicate the route, and to remove any obstacles in the road. John the Baptist fulfilled this exact ministry for Jesus. The same idea is indicated in Isaiah 40:3-5.

God’s purpose for bringing this specific prophecy through Malachi in his day was probably because Israel complained that the Messianic promises of Haggai and Zechariah were not fulfilled. Here Malachi shows that the way for the Messiah must be prepared, and they aren’t ready yet.

Before Me: The Lord promises that He Himself will come - not merely a new or better prophet, but the Lord Himself.

Even the Messenger of the covenant: [size=18pt]This second messenger is the Lord Himself - Jesus [/size]coming to His temple as the fulfillment of the old covenant and [size=18pt]to institute a new[/size] covenant.
[/size]

[size=18pt]you admit that This second messenger is the Lord Himself - Jesus
[/size]
the statement would have read;And the Lord, whom you seek, [size=18pt]will become Messenger[/size] of the covenant,

but rather, 'the Lord, whom you seek, (a messenger in his pre-human[size=18pt]'even the Messenger[/size] of the covenant', [size=18pt]and not to become messenger of the covenant[/size]

when the statement was made, was jesus not still there in heaven as a supernatural spirit form/nature? as a 'mesenger' evidently he is yet to become human

and for the fact that jesus was personified as 'Messenger of the covenant' yet in his spirit form

in heaven shows that he was a 'mesenger'

see 2(#g) has taken care of the natures of john, and jesus see 1, and 2 in see 2(#g).[/size]

1 Like

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: The Big Question Is....is Mourinho "The Special One" Loosing His Touch On Finals by BERNIMOORE: 2:23am On Aug 31, 2013

is two footed tackle worth second yellow? that is chelsea fan for you, they are complainants,

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 1:24am On Aug 31, 2013

[size=18pt]2(#h)[/size]
[size=18pt]Hebrews 1:5

For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”?[/size]

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 1:16am On Aug 31, 2013

benalvino: ^^^ all this part is BS... I have discuss them. you know how it is used. you are never wrong so you can keep on reading your Wikipedia about that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit

^^ "I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come," says the LORD Almighty

^^^^ it is correct because you feel it is the oldest... lol how ignorant... see below the large font
The King James Version is a translation named after King James I of England, who first commissioned the new English Bible translation in 1604 A.D. and later completed in [size=28pt]1611 A.D[/size]. King James 'authorized' the new translation to be read in churches in England and beyond. Later known as the 'Authorized Version' [size=28pt]in 1814[/size], the King James Version became a standard among English-speaking Christians.

the time it was completed and authorize still date the 1899 bible you are bragging about.

First i wan to ask you if people are borne angels...
secondly how do we know if the messenger is a spirit or human? because you made a statement which you abandon the use of angel... now i can see that you have taken it again...

Ok John the baptist is also a messenger like Jesus... Guess what he has heavenly father and mother... therefore he cannot be from an angel because he is not even from heaven...

Jesus on the other hand is a messenger like John the baptist... he wasn't a spirit like Gabriel on earth... so it is up to you to tell me if Jesus was like Gabriel or not...
therefore Malachi 3:1 doesn't prove Jesus was in the Michael the arch angel

^^^No one have your time... try to remove your mind from pride and showoff

[size=18pt]see 2(#g) and 2(#f)above[/size] undecided

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 11:59am On Aug 30, 2013

benalvino: Give it a rest...

Can we continue?
Or we should stop.
All this your post now is not relevant anymore... Its just that you dont have the attitude to accept someone is right n U R wrong that's why you are confusing your self...

Till we go into Jesus am not replying.

GO TO (2#G) I HAVE STARTED THE SECOND ITEM, JESUS, IT WAS IN BOLD BELOW, YOU WENT PASSED IT, GO BACK! SEE IT BELOW IN BOLD.

BERNIMOORE:

(2#G)

since the english word spirit was originally derived from latin word 'spiritus'=breath equivalent with the greek word pneo,which is the root to pne.uma which also corresponds with hebrew ruach,while neshama(inspiration) was opposite of ruach see 2(#f)

then we can establish two distinct categories of forms which falls under the (later usage) blanket name of spirit,note that spirit is used by the english translators later to be a blanket accomodating all various kinds of persons(supernatural/phisical human/animal)

just the way[b] the word 'Lord' could accomodate different
things;God,jesus,court judges,husbands[/b]etc.

however it is very easy for TRINITARIANS TO TURN YOU AROUND HIDDING UNDER THE BLANKET NAME 'LORD' but by sticking to the root derivative will keep argument in focus. because they are confused people on their own, so they want people to be like them, hence they attack anyone who has the got to explain into details by mischieviously forcing the argument back to the same point 'lord' so that anything can be lord even a he goat will be 'lord' to a she goat, thats trinitarians for you!

nevertheless we should not forget the root of english 'spirit' derived from latin which means 'breath'

the blanket word 'spirit' could also by analogy accomodates humans,angels,God,satan/demons etc, ..but in what respect?

The two distinct categories of forms which falls under the (later usage) blanket name of 'spirit'

1, phisical beign/form/nature;human/animals= they breath air, and so the air/wind/breeze they breath sustains their body,keep it alive.

2, supernatural beigns/form/nature; God,angels,word,satan/demons= who are resides in air,breeze/wind and invisible

the difference in 1, and 2, above is that

a, (one) relied on a portion of (two) to sustain its phisical body,

b, (two) does not need any portion of (one) to sustains his supernatural form

[size=20pt]so, 2 is independent on 1, but 1 is dependent on 2.

therefore

Angels BY DEFAULT belong to 2 above,

jesus(word)by default also belong to 2 above before he came to the earth. he was 'messenger' to God in heaven chech old testament record where God was refering to jesus there in heaven as 'messenger of covenant' malachi 3:1, 'angel of covenant' (dual rheims 1899,derby bible,Amp. bible,wcl bible) rightly put it. [/size]

note, to trinitarians this will offend them, expect them to say trash , but that is their opinion. they should come up with a counter explanation rather than beign emotional

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 11:32am On Aug 30, 2013*

2(#g)contd. from 2(#f);

The two distinct categories of forms which falls under the (later usage) blanket name of 'spirit'

1, phisical beign/form/nature;human/animals= they breath air, and so the air/wind/breeze they breath sustains their body,keep it alive.
2, supernatural beigns/form/nature; God,angels,word,satan/demons= who are resides in air,breeze/wind and invisible

if Angels BY DEFAULT belong to 2 above,that is (2),supernatural beigns/form/nature; God,angels,word,satan/demons= who are resides in air,breeze/wind and invisible

what further need is there for Another so-called 'angels form/nature'? it is superflous rather since the word angel root originally means 'messenger'

REMEMBER THE ENGLISH WORD, HOW WAS IT DERIVED;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel

The word angel in English is a fusion of the Old English/Germanic word engel (with a hard g) and the Old French angele. Both derive from the Latin angelus which in turn is the romanization of the ancient Greek ἄγγελος (ángelos[5]), "messenger", "envoy",[6] which is related to the Greek verb ἀγγέλλω (angéllō), meaning "bear a message, announce, bring news of" etc

IF Greek verb ἀγγέλλω [b](angéllō), meaning "bear a message, announce, bring news of" [/b]etc

then

the 'word' angel is merely 'a task' apportioned to some of those in the class of (2)above as well as some of the (1) above 'humans' WHO ARE PROPHETS LEADERS OF GODS PEOPLE etc.

this can be seen in the uterance of 'a spirit son of God;an angel below here task with a message to john;

see what he said about himself paralleled with john, when john wanted to bow for him as a sign of respect;

revelation 22:9;

And he saith unto me, See thou do it not: I am a fellow-servant with thee and with thy brethren the prophets, and with them that keep the words of this book: worship God.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 8:54am On Aug 30, 2013*

[size=18pt]2(#G)[/size]

since the english word spirit was originally derived from latin word 'spiritus'=breath equivalent with the greek word pneo,which is the root to pne.uma which also corresponds with hebrew ruach,while neshama(inspiration) was opposite of ruach see 2(#f)

then we can establish two distinct categories of forms which falls under the (later usage) blanket name of spirit,note that spirit is used by the english translators later to be a blanket accomodating all various kinds of persons(supernatural/phisical human/animal)
just the way the word 'Lord' could accomodate different
things;God,jesus,court judges,husbands etc. however it is very easy for TRINITARIANS TO TURN YOU AROUND HIDDING UNDER THE BLANKET NAME 'LORD' but by sticking to the root derivative will keep argument in focus. because they are confused people on their own, so they want people to be like them, hence they attack anyone who has the got to explain into details by mischieviously forcing the argument back to the same point 'lord' so that anything can be lord even a he goat will be 'lord' to a she goat, grin

thats trinitarians for you!

nevertheless we should not forget the root of english 'spirit' derived from latin which means 'breath'

the blanket word 'spirit' could also by analogy accomodates humans,angels,God,satan/demons etc, ..but in what respect?

The two distinct categories of forms which falls under the (later usage) blanket name of 'spirit'

1, phisical beign/form/nature;human/animals= they breath air, and so the air/wind/breeze they breath sustains their body,keep it alive.
2, supernatural beigns/form/nature; God,angels,word,satan/demons= who are resides in air,breeze/wind and invisible

the difference in 1, and 2, above is that

a, (one) relied on a portion of (two) to sustain its phisical body,

b, (two) does not need any portion of (one) to sustains his supernatural form

so, 2 is independent on 1, but 1 is dependent on 2.

therefore

Angels BY DEFAULT belong to 2 above,

jesus(word)by default also belong to 2 above before he came to the earth. he was 'messenger' to God in heaven chech old testament record where God was refering to jesus there in heaven as 'messenger of covenant' malachi 3:1, 'angel of covenant' (dual rheims 1899,derby bible,Amp. bible,wcl bible) rightly put it.

note, to trinitarians this will offend them, expect them to say trash grin

, but that is their opinion. they should come up with a counter explanation rather than beign emotional

thanks

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 11:36pm On Aug 29, 2013*

[size=18pt]2(#f)[/size]

benalvino: Oboy you are still confusing your self... english and hebrew, greek, latin are not same language... translation from one language to another... when you start all this wikipedia you will go ddeep down the hole...

As you can see,[size=18pt] spirit was derived from spiritus (latin) meaning breath[/size]

a direct root in greek is G4154
πνέω
pneō
pneh'-o
A primary word; to breathe {hard} that {is} breeze

corresponding with rûach H7306

H7306
רוּח
rûach
roo'-akh
A primitive root; properly to {blow} that {is} breathe ; only (literally) to smell or (by implication perceive

Hebrew neshama comes from the root NŠM or "breath"wink opposite ruach (רוּחַ rûaħ).

H5397
נשׁמה
neshâmâh
nesh-aw-maw'
From H5395 ; a {puff} that {is} { wind } angry or vital {breath}divine {inspiration} intellect or (concretely) an animal: - {blast} (that) breath ({-eth}) {inspiration} {soul} spirit.

neshama = inspiration

Hebrew neshama comes from the root NŠM or "breath"wink opposite ruach (רוּחַ rûaħ).

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 9:22pm On Aug 29, 2013*

[size=18pt]2(#e)[/size]

benalvino:

BERNIMOORE you are beginning to go off the cliff... forget confusing your self. when God gave man Breath in Genesis 2:7 was it figurative?
Genesis 2:7 then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.
^^^ hebrew for breath neshamah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit

Spirit

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The English word spirit (from Latin spiritus "breath" wink

has many differing meanings and connotations, most of them relating to a non-corporeal substance contrasted with the material body. The word spirit is often used metaphysically to refer to the consciousness or personality.

Etymology

The English word spirit comes from the Latin spiritus, meaning "breath", but also "spirit, soul, courage, vigor", ultimately from a Proto-Indo-European *(s)peis. It is distinguished from Latin anima, "soul" (which nonetheless also derives from an Indo-European root meaning "to breathe", earliest form *h2enh1- [2]). In Greek, this distinction exists between pneuma (πνευμα), "breath, motile air, spirit," and psykhē (ψυχη), "soul"[3] (even though the latter term, ψῡχή = psykhē/psūkhē, is also from an Indo-European root meaning "to breathe": *bhes-, zero grade *bhs- devoicing in proto-Greek to *phs-, resulting in historical-period Greek ps- in psūkhein, "to breathe", whence psūkhē, "spirit", "soul"[4]).
The word "spirit" came into Middle English via Old French. The distinction between soul and spirit also developed in the Abrahamic religions: Arabic nafs (نفس) opposite rúħ (روح); Hebrew neshama (נְשָׁמָה nəšâmâh) or nephesh (in Hebrew neshama comes from the root NŠM or "breath"[size=18pt] opposite ruach (רוּחַ rûaħ).[/size] (Note, however, that in Semitic just as in Indo-European, this dichotomy has not always been as neat historically as it has come to be taken over a long period of development: Both נֶ֫פֶשׁ (root נפשׁ) and רוּחַ (root רוח), as well as cognate words in various Semitic languages, including Arabic, also preserve meanings involving misc. air phenomena: "breath", "wind", and even "odour".[5][6][7])

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 8:08pm On Aug 29, 2013

benalvino: So before Jesus came to earth he was michael the arch angel?

this argument may not continue[b]unless we agree on a consensus[/b]

our agreed defination of

1, spirit: pneo/pneuma/ruach

2, jesus form before,he came to the earth

3, jesus form here on earth

4, jesus's form back in the heaven

will give a basis to the nature of jesus;

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 6:45pm On Aug 29, 2013

benalvino: So can you present a scripture that says Michael is one of the names of Jesus?

as i said we are not yet in that stage, one step at a time we are stillon stage 1

this argument may not continue[b] unless we agree on a consensus,[/b]

our agreed defination of spirit pneo/pneuma/ruach will give a basis to the nature of jesus;

1,Angel/spirit

2,jesus form before,he he came to the earth

3, and after he cam to earth

3, back to the heaven

the op is not supporting 1,

i understand but im in support of all!

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 6:25pm On Aug 29, 2013

benalvino: Should we continue?

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 6:24pm On Aug 29, 2013

benalvino: Since
angels are not spirits and angel anymore...
Jesus is not an angel anymore... what are we still talking about?

funny enough we have not even reached where to now apply jesus case to the issue!

anyway Go back to 2#c and 2#D above on this page, and see the answers there shocked

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 6:07pm On Aug 29, 2013

benalvino: Since
angels are not spirits and angel anymore...
Jesus is not an angel anymore... what are we still talking about?

where?

state exactly what i said, before what you think i said! or else, you will like my respose

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 5:56pm On Aug 29, 2013

when you are ready let me know!

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 5:53pm On Aug 29, 2013

[quote author=benalvino][/quote]oya now fire!

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