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Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 5:43pm On Aug 29, 2013

benalvino: No wahala can we continue...

who stops you? why are you shaking? you may not like the taste i will leave with you if you continue to twist my comments okay? as you can see i code all my comment, but i dont need to warn you anymore, if you want sanity i dey

i will love to see you do things that will build the thread to more that 'firtfruit thread' 31, i want more than 50 pages if more grin

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 5:35pm On Aug 29, 2013

defence 2#d

benalvino]

benalvino^^^ you are saying humans dont have spirit but they have breath.

[size=14pt]humans have spirit pneo[/size] i never denied it, 'breath' G4154
πνέω
pneō
pneh'-o

you said angels are spirit and humans have breath but not spirit....
Now you are saying the angels are not spirit again but wind/breath?

no i did not say that

angel are not classified under pneoG4154
πνέω
pneō
pneh'-o

but, they are classified spirit under pneuma, i affirm

up there you told me to replace Spirit with breath... in hebrews 1:14

yes, go to my post 2#c (check (1) under defination of pneuma

root meaning wing
pneuma is spirit, i affirm, i never deny it, but your mischivious twisting grin

at this point you are so confuse. Lol

confuse that you * an ani p i.g?

1: Jesus is an angel

yes i affirm before he came to the earth an arch angel he was

2: jesus is not an angel anymore

because imbeci..le like you have their reasoning upside down grin

provide just one statement where i said that NOW

3: the angels are not angels anymore but spirit sons of God

YOU are even contradicting yourself, observers will laugh you here

4: we dont have spirit but breath is our nature we and animals have breath

i have answered that we have pneuma spirit (1)above in def

5: angels are not spirit sons of God anymore but WIND sons of God

you cant show me that

1, and 2 of the defination which one do you take, olodo

angels are pneuma ext (1)

6: animals are sons of men

can be like your son

all this your twisting wan kill me for laugh. grin

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 5:13pm On Aug 29, 2013

benalvino: ^^^ the funny thing is that i didnt even twist a single word. lol you said animals can be called sons of men... no one is talking about making love to animal except you are insulting me which is ok... it has never had effect in me.

deny that you have never made love to a P.IG i saw you now shocked

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 5:01pm On Aug 29, 2013

[quote author=benalvino]Lol... ok.
First you said human dont have spirit that we have breath... the breath of God... and you went on to say the angels are spirit which implies that you are having the notion that angels are spirit but humans dont have spirit they have breath... Now you are saying the Angels are not spirit anymore but they are breath/Wind...

is that it?

see the post you are twisting grin

im tagging it 2#c (for defence)

did i say humans dont have spirit? is ru'ach not spirit? here is my post;

iknew exactly that you will do that, i was expecting it, and was prepared with some irritations you deserve,

BERNIMOORE:

Good question

let me use strong conc, you preffered.

G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma

pnyoo'-mah
a current of {air} that {is} breath ( blast ) or abreeze ; by analogy or figuratively a {spirit}
As you can see above,

THE ROOT:

(1)the primary usage, OR ROOT here is 'a current of {air}' that {is} breath ( blast ) or abreeze

(2)the secondary usage which was by analogy or figuratively, an afterthought and as spirit!

pneuma was used in the context of hebrew 1:14 'his angels spirits' is due to the afterthought arrived at by the theologians in(2)above, secondary usage which is 'spirit' as pneuma.

it refers to 'those resident in the moving wind/breeze as mediums or the; supernaturals/form,'

COMPARISM;

It is to the extent that 'the moving wind or breeze' in(1) above is similar to the one you feel when you put your hand near your nose;you feel the movement of breeze through your noserils.(breath}. a replica of feel of breeze, yet it was literally not visible to you evidence of life function internally within man,mammal etc.

LIMITATION

The one root idea running through all the greek pneuma and the correspding hebrew ru'ach is invisible force.(i dont mean a separate immortal)

Some scholars says;
Because at its root both denotes moving air it's important to not always translate it "SPIRIT," which is only one possible meaning

in the light of the above, let me answer your post below;

your objection to 'breath' above was because to you it does not make sense. thats why i said that you should remove emotions, think outside the box

YES, it makes sense not only because of the explanation above, but it do make sense too to some of bible translators;

in the same heb 1:7 this time around, compare the usage, of 'wind' same as 'breath'(moving air)

'angel were maketh wind' 'human's breath in and out with same feel like wind'

http://biblehub.com/hebrews/1-7.htm

Hebrews 1:7 (ASV)
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels winds, And his ministers a flame a fire:

Hebrews 1:7 (AMP)
7 Referring to the angels He says, [God] Who makes His angels winds and His ministering servants flames of fire;

New American Standard Bible

And of the angels He says, "WHO MAKES HIS ANGELS WINDS, AND HIS MINISTERS A FLAME OF FIRE."
And about the angels He says: He makes His angels winds, and His servants a fiery flame,

International Standard Version
Now about the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, and his servants flames of fire."

as you can see above, angel are WINDS(moving)/breeze(unseen). their resident disposition, character, or nature nature(supernatural) resembles the movement of breath which you cannot see. this comparism brought about classifying them as spirits.

but, for me personally, i would prefer the primary root pnuo;;breath,breeze,(moving air)appropriate for humans/mammals where pneuma was derived, i want it to remain like that personally.

pneō

G4154
πνέω
pneō
pneh'-o

A primary word; to breathe {hard} that {is} breeze

where G4151 pneuma was derived.

because adam was nowhere when he was created, his spirit returns to the state before his creation;inexistence

it does not mean that he possesed another spirit(immortal) different from pneō

G4154

benalvino

before i continue

^^^ you made this statement and i did not see it... ANIMALS SONS OF MEN? hahahaha WHY NOT MEN SONS OF ANIMALS. I cant stop laughing.

see the post you are twisting here(animal can be called); observers can testify;

BERNIMOORE: i have answered, but your rigidity cant be satisfied even with bible, because trinity concept has been ingrained in you. grin grin grin grin

yes,why not, animal can be called [/b]sons of men, are you and i not classified as mammals? stop attaching emotions and open your eye,

yes, [b]because they are both made from dust and dust they return, their breath of life return to where Adam came from(inexistence) as air return to God.

Are you denying not making love to Black female PI.G? [/b]and you have a son, that was the animal sons of man(benalvino)

[b]i cant stop laughing looking your big black long nose on him grin

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 4:30pm On Aug 29, 2013

benalvino: ^^^ I am ashamed that you are saying i am not indicating when i indicated by putting them in bracket!!! why do you look for things to pick on

you dont need to! you would have just added brief comment to aknowledge that you added God. you know the last time you were imputing error error, in mal 3:1, i did not take that from you till today, i frown at such.

anyway no probs

is the Holy spirit not the spirit of GOD?
let us look at the word greek Word use to Describe God if it is different from what is use to describe Humans and the holy spirit...

you remember when Jesus said God is spirit
john 4:24 God is spirit{pneuma}, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit{pneuma} and in truth."

enh? holy spirit/holy ghost issue is another case,that can derail the thread, thats why i dont accept you adding God 'for now'

see part of what i reseached, about it, not my work but im still investigating. thats why i dont accept your addition, not for anything but we have to agree;

Pneuma hagion = Holy Spirit.

This usage (without Articles) occurs 52 times in the New Testament, and is always wrongly rendered "the Holy Spirit" (with the definite Article, and capital letters). Consequently there is no stronger rendering available when there are two Articles present in the Greek (to pneuma to hagion), which means "the Spirit the Holy [Spirit]". Hence, the English reader can never tell which of the two very different Greek expressions he is reading.

Pneuma hagion (without Articles) is never used of the Giver (the Holy Spirit), but only and always of His gift.

in job
Job 32:8, But it is the spirit in man{ruach}, the breath{neshamah} of the Almighty, that makes him understand.

is same hebrew word use for the spirit of God
“The Spirit{ruach} of God hath made me, and the breath{neshamah} of the Almighty hath given me life.”
(Job 33:4)

'breath' by Figurative; Metonymy(check meaning to understand usage)
inspiration is different from 'breath of life'

King James Bible
But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

compare
2 Timothy 3:16
New King James Version
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 3:46pm On Aug 29, 2013

and in Hebrew 1:14 pneuma is used... Same word used for human spirits and if you want I can show you many Greek verses how they are used. I showed you 2 Hebrew and a Greek scripture you come with the reply above instead of you to say ok I get your point instead you keep digging your hole

So kindly tell us what was used

Good question

let me use strong conc, you preffered.

G4151
πνεῦμα
[size=14pt]pneuma[/size]

pnyoo'-mah
[size=18pt]a current of {air} that {is} breath ( blast ) or abreeze ; by analogy or figuratively a {spirit}[/size]
As you can see above,

THE ROOT:

(1)the primary usage, OR ROOT here is 'a current of {air}' that {is} breath ( blast ) or abreeze

(2)the secondary usage which was by analogy or figuratively, an afterthought and as spirit!

pneuma was used in the context of hebrew 1:14 'his angels spirits' is due to the afterthought arrived at by the theologians in(2)above, secondary usage which is 'spirit' as pneuma.

it refers to 'those resident in the moving wind/breeze as mediums or the; supernaturals/form,'

COMPARISM;

It is to the extent that 'the moving wind or breeze' in(1) above is similar to the one you feel when you put your hand near your nose;you feel the movement of breeze through your noserils.(breath}. a replica of feel of breeze, yet it was literally not visible to you evidence of life function internally within man,mammal etc.

LIMITATION

The one root idea running through all the greek pneuma and the correspding hebrew ru'ach is invisible force.(i dont mean a separate immortal)

Some scholars says;
[size=18pt]Because at its root both denotes moving air it's important to not always translate it "SPIRIT," which is only one possible meaning[/size]

in the light of the above, let me answer your post below;

Benalvino:
in addition to the post above

does this make sense?
Hebrews 1:14 (ESV)
14 Are they not all ministering[size=18pt] breath[/size] sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?

your objection to 'breath' above was because to you it does not make sense. thats why i said that you should remove emotions, think outside the box

YES, it makes sense not only because of the explanation above, but it do make sense too to some of bible translators;

in the same heb 1:7 this time around, compare the usage, of 'wind' same as 'breath'(moving air)

'angel were maketh wind' 'human's breath in and out with same feel like wind'

http://biblehub.com/hebrews/1-7.htm

Hebrews 1:7 (ASV)
7 And of the angels he saith, [size=18pt]Who maketh his angels winds[/size], And his ministers a flame a fire:

Hebrews 1:7 (AMP)
7 Referring to the angels He says, [God] [size=18pt]Who makes His angels winds [/size]and His ministering servants flames of fire;

New American Standard Bible

And of the angels He says, "WHO MAKES HIS ANGELS WINDS, AND HIS MINISTERS A FLAME OF FIRE."
And about the angels He says: He makes His angels winds, and His servants a fiery flame,

International Standard Version
Now about the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, and his servants flames of fire."

as you can see above, angel are WINDS(moving)/breeze(unseen). their resident disposition, character, or nature nature(supernatural) resembles the movement of breath which you cannot see. this comparism brought about classifying them as spirits.

but, for me personally, i would prefer the primary root pnuo;;breath,breeze,(moving air)appropriate for humans/mammals where pneuma was derived, i want it to remain like that personally.

pneō

G4154
πνέω
pneō
pneh'-o

A primary word; to breathe {hard} that {is} breeze

where G4151 pneuma was derived.

because adam was nowhere when he was created, his spirit returns to the state before his creation;inexistence

it does not mean that he possesed another spirit(immortal) different from pneō

G4154

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 12:46pm On Aug 29, 2013

i will be replying as time permits me today,

[quote author=benalvino]

And you failed to look at the Greek scripture I provide. You and you excuses

Romans 8:16
16 The Spirit himself[size=18pt]{God}[/size] bears witness with our spirit{humans} that we are children of God,

same greek use for the spirit of God is same use for us... "pne'uma"

You are a clown ooo is job not Hebrew scriptures I showed you good example

Then the last one a Greek scripture I showed you that pneuma was used instead of you to read it you decide to look for mistakes now you have made your self look silly again.
Check again... Check Romans what is used there which I included in my normal post.

[size=18pt]the spirit itself[/size], you should have indicated that you added God 'in brackets' of which was not in the original bible verse.

spirit itself, if you ask me i will say 'it is the holy spirit'

see various translations

New International Version
The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

English Standard Version
The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

New American Standard Bible
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

King James Bible
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The Spirit Himself testifies together with our spirit that we are God's children,

International Standard Version
The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

NET Bible
The Spirit himself bears witness to our spirit that we are God's children.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And that Spirit testifies to our spirit that we are sons of God;

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

do you see that it will take a dialogue btw us to agree 'adding God' in bracket to the verse?.

now who clown here really? grin

will you appologise grin

for saying that wrongly knowing you are at fault?, i doubt, lets Go.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 12:25am On Aug 29, 2013*

benalvino: hebrew
ruach: breath, wind, spirit
Original Word: ר֫וּחַ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: ruach
Phonetic Spelling: (roo'-akh)
Short Definition: [size=18pt]spirit[/size]

hebrew
neshamah: breath
Original Word: נְשָׁמָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: neshamah
Phonetic Spelling: (nesh-aw-maw')
Short Definition: [size=18pt]breath[/size]
^^^Genesis 2:7 then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.

you still didnt make any point...

in job
Job 32:8, But it is the spirit in man{ruach}, the breath{neshamah} of the Almighty, that makes him understand.

is same hebrew word use for the spirit of God
“The Spirit{ruach} of God hath made me, and the breath{neshamah} of the Almighty hath given me life.”
(Job 33:4)

ruach which is hebrew word... means wind, breath and spirit...

[size=18pt]so you want to stop using spirit to describe the angels and start using breath too? [/size]

Romans 8:16
16 The Spirit himself{God} bears witness with our spirit{humans} that we are children of God,

same greek use for the spirit of God is same use for us... [size=18pt]"pne'uma"[/size]

NOT a single usage for pneuma? grin

even when i apply it directly to hebrew 1:14 you still use ruach to mean pneuma? where do youthink that setting things up as traps will get you? laugh grin

DOES SPIRIT SONS OF GOD (IN THEIR SUPERNATURAL FORM)relY on breathing for their life sustainance? then why we are NOT IMFORMED, OR ,im i making a case for spirit angels by using ru'ach? NOO, LETS SEE THE PRIMARY MEANING OF RUACH!
when i said that YOU FIX DELIBERATELY, im i not correct? i observed that you really have the luxury with the strong, but they relied on the greek and hebrew roots of translation, so they are SECONDARY

and again, maybe because you are part of the strong's scholars

im happy you really relied on the concordance

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 9:25pm On Aug 28, 2013

Stop sticking to afterthought new generation strong conc.

go to history

i will post the wikipedia meanings

maybe you stick with strong concordance

then i stick with wiki, ok so that i dont prove over righteous

meanwhile, i want others comment.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 9:17pm On Aug 28, 2013

in addition to the post above

does this make sense?
Hebrews 1:14 (ESV)
14 Are they not all ministering [size=18pt]breath[/size] sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?

you deliberately fix ru'ach in place of 'supernatural spirit form, but let me assume that you dont understand what 'i ask you to replace

rua'ch is 'breath common to both humans and animals'

what im saying is NOT about the ministering 'spirits' their spirit falls under pne'umawhile another spirit 'pa'ra'cle'tos'(holy spirit)

in the case above, see how it applies;

so,

Are they not all ministering [size=18pt]pne'uma[/size] sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit

see strong's concordance below

pneuma: wind, spirit
Original Word: πνεῦμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: pneuma
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo'-mah)
Short Definition: wind, breath, spirit
Definition: wind, breath, spirit.

this is the mistake you are making with Angel and messenger and you want to make it again...

when i say breath am i talking about
a: the breath in heaven
b: breath in me
answer o...

you are the one still confused that how are 'we sustained by breath'? but that is who we(humans and animal are), breathe, immidiately it stops YOU ARE DEAD.

PLS, STOP ATTACHING EMOTIONS

IT WILL BE HARD FOR TRINITARIANS LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE THAT THE SPIRIT MENTIONED THERE IS 'IMMORTAL' BUT NO, THE SPIRIT THERE IS WIND, YES WIND BLOWN INTO ADAM NOSERILLS.

I have always told you our spirit and angels are not the same...
when you say Breath is different from spirit form are you not comparing apple and oranges?

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 5:11pm On Aug 28, 2013

[quote author=benalvino]

hmmmm ok. i agree with you that angels are spirits...

you will agree with me that God is spirit...

yes

you will agree with me that we have spirit...

sorry what is translated 'spirit' is originally 'breathe' so replace it with breath(check the hebrew word RU'ACH) and see the translation.

so are you saying that because we are all spirit we are the same?

'breathe' is different from supernatural spirit form, ok?

you said humans are made of flesh like animals...

but yet we have animal as a class of creatures with flesh
and humans as a class of creatures with flesh...

no it was the bible that said it, and i showed you, yet you fought the bible
Since this is the case

are you saying God is an angel like Gabriel?

No, they are both supernatural by default in form, but the 'sons of God' as they are first known are tasked to be messengers to God.

because the flesh of fish is not even the same as humans and the flesh of lion is not the same as the flesh of cat yet they are all describe as flesh.

so in animals cat is different from lion yet they are animals...

all, above breathe, can you deny that? that is their nature/form 'ru'ach' say it with me now; humans, animals, cat, or lion they all BREATHE(ru'ach) recite it now grin

can you say the same with spirits?

We have God as a spirit that if any angel see they will die

lie! big time lie

jesus himself testifies;

proof

Matthew 18:10

10[b] “Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones,[/b] [size=18pt]for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven.
[/size]

we have human spirit that is inferior to the angels...

we have angels as spirit that are inferior to God

we have 'human breathe' ru'ach(hebrew

so what is your point?

are you saying God(YAHWEH) is an angel?

No, they are both supernaturalby default in form , but the 'sons of God' as they are first known are tasked to be messengers to God.

the question is not answered yet... because when i say messenger you cant tell if am talking about angels or humans...

you have failed so bad...

as you can see, i cant bend your mind grin

even the bible cant grin

you always say jesus is an angel talk about it alot... Now you are trying to prove that the word angel is not good enough that english formed it.

its not me, it was the wiki historians that colude with the greek and hebrew translators

ok, forgive me for that.

jesus was a 'messenger of covenant' in OT,

your questions were cheap!

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 3:59pm On Aug 28, 2013

dont come here with insult

have i answered, or have you rejected my answer? you have just one choice

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 3:56pm On Aug 28, 2013

benalvino: after all the post you still come to the this question

when i say messenger who am i referring to
a: humans including human spirit
b: spirits in heaven
c: animals
and because you made this statememt
a and c, are of same nature/form as flesh, you did not answer my post using book of ecclsts.

should i add
d: God
because according to you a and c are same nature flesh so we can also conclude that angels and God are same nature supernatural spirit? lol is that what we should conclude?

I ask a simple question what am i referring to you are jumping up and donw... let me narrow the answers now.
when i say messenger what am i referring to
a: humans/animals
b:the spirits

[size=14pt]if i have to narrow it the way you put it,its same

you are reffering to 'spirit sons of God' who are in supernatural nature/form like God[/size]

are you ok with this?

list questions on this issue of angel(not arch angel yet) that i have not answered

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 3:48pm On Aug 28, 2013

benalvino: so is it same to call the animals sons of men? like and same are two different thing.... you can be like them in certain areas but you are not them....

"[size=18pt]man[/size] has no advantage over [size=18pt]animals[/size]" two different class of creature... one is called animal and the other is called man or human...

the point the verse is making is that man shall die like animals... we are alike in that sense...

[size=18pt]can you agree that you cant answer my question?[/size]

i have answered, but your rigidity cant be satisfied even with bible, because trinity concept has been ingrained in you. grin

[size=18pt]yes,why not, animal can be called sons of men, are you and i not classified as mammals? stop attaching emotions and open your eye[/size],

yes, because they are both made from dust and dust they return, their breath of life return to where Adam came from(inexistence) as air return to God.

they

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 3:41pm On Aug 28, 2013

benalvino: after all the post you still come to the this question

when i say messenger who am i referring to
a: humans including human spirit
b: spirits in heaven
c: animals
and because you made this statememt
a and c, are of same nature/form as flesh, you did not answer my post using book of ecclsts.

should i add
d: God
because according to you a and c are same nature flesh so we can also conclude that angels and God are same nature supernatural spirit? lol is that what we should conclude?

I ask a simple question what am i referring to you are jumping up and donw... let me narrow the answers now.
when i say messenger what am i referring to
a: humans/animals
b:the spirits

b and d too, are the same spirit supernatural form/nature, you ADMITTED that earlier, below;

benalvino:
...then you went on to say angels are supernatural spirit in form/nature [size=18pt]exactly what i have been saying[/size]... then you say their task messenger is not a nature... like i said before their task is to serve God and Humans... i never said messenger is their nature...

you admit God is also a supernanural spirit form

so,
[size=14pt]
b and d are same

that alone NULLIFIES WHAT YOU TERMED AS 'FORM OR NATURE OF ANGELS' you are still reffering to the supernanural spirit form they shared with God, so, nothing like 'FORM OR NATURE OF ANGELS' outside their spirit form.[/size]

they are sons of God in spirit supernatural form by default including lucifer UNTIL INNiquity was found in him. before he lured other sons of God, who later rebelled and became demons,

genesis put it as 'sons of God' who left their position.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 3:22pm On Aug 28, 2013

one thing is to prove, and back it with evidence, another is for you to bluntly reject, which is a fundamental right you have, i cant force you ok?

again a, and c are same(according to the bible) you may reject it, but see it again before you claim that i have not replied it

Ecclesiastes 3:18-21

[size=14pt]"sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.” [/size]19 For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: [size=14pt]as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals[/size], for all is vanity. 20 [size=18pt]All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. [/size]21 Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?

what further evidence do you need to show a and c better? exept willful rejection, ok?

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 3:08pm On Aug 28, 2013

below is the Wiki version you posted, that according to you, shot me on the leg,

but kindly read the bolded, you will see that, it was 'sons of God' was even the preffered first translation of AGELLOS, second prefered was 'holy ones' before it was later that the concept of angel as messengers was intruduced.

this is from same wikipedia you checked... funny thing is instead of you to post the article you post the reference link which takes to greek name...
see wiki below and read what it says.

[size=18pt]
The word angel in English is a fusion of the Old English/Germanic word engel (with a hard g) and the Old French angele. Both derive from the Latin angelus which in turn is the romanization of the ancient[b] Greek ἄγγελος (ángelos), "messenger", "envoy",[6] which is related to the Greek verb ἀγγέλλω (angéllō), meaning "bear a message, announce, bring news of" etc.[/b][7] The earliest form of the word is the Mycenaean a-ke-ro attested in Linear B syllabic script.[8][9]
Judaism
Main article: Angels in Judaism
The Bible uses the terms מלאך אלהים (mal’āk̠ ’ĕlōhîm; messenger of God), מלאך יהוה (mal’āk̠ YHWH; messenger of the Lord), בני אלהים (bənē Elohim ’ĕlōhîm; sons of God) and הקודשים (haqqôd̠əšîm; the holy ones) to refer to beings traditionally interpreted as angels [/size]Later texts use other terms, such as העליונים (hā‘elyônîm; the upper ones).

The term מלאך (mal’āk̠) is also used in the Tanakh; a similar term, ملائكة (malā’ikah), is used in the Qur'an. The Greek and Hebrew words, depending on the context may refer either to a human messenger or a supernatural messenger. The human messenger could possibly be a prophet or priest, such as Malachi, "my messenger", and the Greek superscription that the Book of Malachi was written "by the hand of his messenger" ἀγγήλου angḗlou. Examples of a supernatural messenger[10] are the "Malak YHWH," who is either a messenger from God,[11] an aspect of God (such as the Logos),[12] or God himself as the messenger (the "theophanic angel."wink[10][13]

Scholar Michael D. Coogan notes that it is only in the late books that the terms "come to mean the benevolent semidivine beings familiar from later mythology and art."[14] Daniel is the first biblical figure to refer to individual angels by name,[15] mentioning Gabriel (God's primary messenger) in Daniel 9:21 and Michael (the holy fighter) in Daniel 10:13. These angels are part of Daniel's apocalyptic visions and are an important part of all apocalyptic literature.[14] [size=18pt]Coogan explains the development of this concept of angels: "In the postexilic period, with the development of explicit monotheism, these divine beings—the 'sons of God' who were members of the Divine Council— were in effect demoted to what are now known as 'angels', understood as beings created by God, but immortal and thus superior to humans."[/size][14] This conception of angels is best understood in contrast to demons and is often thought to be "influenced by the ancient Persian religious tradition of Zoroastrianism, which viewed the world as a battleground between forces of good and forces of evil, between light and darkness."[14] One of these is hāšāṭān, a figure depicted in (among other places) the Book of Job.

Philo of Alexandria identifies the angel with the Logos as far as the angel is the immaterial voice of God. The angel is something different than God Himself, but is conceived as God's instrument.[16]

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 2:06pm On Aug 28, 2013

Now this is a shame because it boils me that you cant understand simple thing.

the Word angel is derived from aggelos you get the point
so in the greek aggelos means messenger
in the bible aggelos means an angel and a messenger. the angel part is a word that is derived from aggelos.
when the bible is talking about those spirit it uses angel meaning messengers and when talking about humans it uses messenger.

i have been saying this all day long that is why i said why do you think strong translate aggellos as an angel and messenger?

you keep that shame, nothing warrants it huh

Did i say that i rely on strong lexicon? answer me,

[size=14pt]i told you that since strong as you put it rely on the greek meaning, which translates Agellos directly as 'messenger'

im done with that

maybe i hold on the greek wikipedia meaning of Agellos,

while you hold on the strong, because you were present with the strong group of theologians

we are devided here on 'the direct greek meaning' and let it be![/size]

i just signed in now to check mails and see that just, because i signed out to attend to something, you want to use that opportunity to sound silly grin

you see now, your aim was not genuine, why will i hesitate to reply you?

you went so low to join issues with someone that im sure is here to support you? which does not bother me in anyway, it happened on the 'firsborn thread' and you were tired, you and itsfact repeating the same thing on that thread, not a new thing,
someone to join you and insult and not contribute?,after Bidam refuse to join you, grin

anyway you claim that i make you feel bad and others so thats why you fan sentiment? if we start the insult thing, nobody will get anything on this page, that is your aim to derail an argument by going round and round, but i have tagged your denials

My aim is clear, if you want insult, im there, and if you want sanity im there.

back to business;

one thing you dont know is that we are devided on this issue and maybe we should entertain some comment from others, tell your friend too if he can make a meaninfull contribution,

thats why the way i will put the your question below which i have earlier answered that 'it was my post' you still want me to be you,

ok what you mean by messenger, i dont know? and hence below;

so now am asking you...
when i come and say aggelos which means messenger... what am i referring to.

a: human(aggelos)
b:the spirits(aggelos)
c: animals like pigeon and dogs (aggelos)

a and c, are of same nature/form as flesh, you did not answer my post using book of ecclsts.

while b, supernatural spirit/form by default(first) before the task as a 'messenger' is what you are reffering to

, [size=14pt]are you done[/size], or you want to insult? oya now

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 11:39am On Aug 28, 2013

signed out, but will be back.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 11:38am On Aug 28, 2013

benalvino: I have no business with him. i dont know him. All i know is that you are here to make people feel bad. and you were happy maybe ola felt that way or not... but like i said am not that kind of person...

its your time that likes making people feel bad over the internet causing them to commit suicide...

I am only saying you cant go into debate without looking for something to brag about... without looking for pride. you treat it as a competition....

I ask people to come see cause yesterday you show your self for who you truly are. I know your motive... and you as BARRISTER soon your next character will surface... I wonder what ID you will use

[size=18pt]so many unanswered question up there... why cant you answer them?[/size]

thank you for speculating barrister as me, i told you it is libelous, wait till i get your true person,and i will put my counsel on alert, you will receive A WRIT OF SUMMONS inviting you to a court, for damages, i hope you start preparing your defences now.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 11:32am On Aug 28, 2013

benalvino: this is from same wikipedia you checked... funny thing is instead of you to post the article you post the reference link which takes to greek name...
see wiki below and read what it says.

^^^ this above has proven what i was saying that an angel is a word use to describe the spirits you know what i mean...
that is why strong translate aggelos as an angel and messenger

i dont need any explanation, you said that agellos translate 'at the same time' as angel and messenger

but look at the first line there in bold, agellos [/b]the next primary meaning [b]'messenger'

the strong dic. cannot manufacture their own meaning, they relied on the greek meanings

ok,

Agelliki a greek word translates what?

i will join you later, let me concentrate now in the office, later pls!

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 11:17am On Aug 28, 2013

benalvino: i never used dictionary for this... you were the one using wikipedia let me show you...

http://biblesuite.com/greek/32.htm

the above is from strong... that is where i have been getting my translation...

[size=18pt]and my question still left unanswered [/size]

it is funny how you are showing your ignorance and you think you are exposing me... lol am not here for that. it is always your motive... I know you must have host a party because you expose olaagbedu or so... even if you expose me it means nothing to me... try remove your mind there... am not even competing with you... if you are competing i will say you won... It is a walkover

you see, stop fanning sentiments ok, and face the issue. whats your business with ola? if he sends you GO BACK AND TELL HIM YOU CANT! Do you know derorogatory words ola has said about frosbel? , on NL? , NOW YOU HAVE PITY FOR OLA BECAUSE HE IS A TRINITARIAN AND THE WAY HE WAS SHUTTED OUT ON THE OTHER THREAD.

you want to invite BIDAM to join you by calling me all sorts of name, i laugh grin

he replied you that he just peeped! no wahala, as a gentleman he was neutral, and since nobody is joining you now cant you leave them out of this and lets concentrate?

ok

maybe we have a break now, let me attend some people .i will join later

and thanks for your time.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 10:52am On Aug 28, 2013

benalvino: and you remove angel and put messenger Abi?
now am asking you this
when i say "messenger" what i my referring to?
a: spirits (...)
b: humans (elijah)
c: animals(dog, pigeon)
d: human spirit(dead humans)

you still haven't answered...
the bible is a key to understand this which i have explained for you instead of you to grasp you refuse and try to mine for errors so you can be glorified that you contradict me which is the soul reason you came to nairaland... but it seems its you that is doing the contradiction...

malawk translates messenger and not angel... but messenger means angel.
Why is it that when the bible is talking about the spirits thats minister for God in heaven why does the bible always translate ANGEL in the old testament instead of MESSENGER? remember malawk is translated to messenger and not angel... and also remember that the word angel is derived from aggelos not malawk...

So why the OT translate malawk as Angel for the spirits and Malawk as messenger for men like Abraham?

[size=18pt]Agellos translates directly to 'messenger' and then FULL STOP, primary meaning, see it below;[/size]

http://www.greek-names.info/aggelos-or-angelos/
[size=18pt]Aggelos or Angelos is a popular male Greek name, deriving from the homonym word “aggelos” which in ancient Greek was referring to the messenger.[/size]

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 10:40am On Aug 28, 2013

benalvino: hahaha... you left the question i ask you then bring up something that you are trying to force problem on... let me help you again

aggelos translate an angel, messenger
short definition an angel, a messenger

now since you say angel = messenger no problem with that...
^^[size=18pt] why is aggelos translate an angel and messenger at the same time?[/size]
[size=18pt]why not just angel as we know that angel means messenger or why not just messenger as we know that messenger means angel?[/size]

[size=14pt]for your imformation,

Aggelos does NOT translate an angel and messenger at the same time? IT WAS FORCEFULL according to your kindergerten dictionary[/size] grin

see the real trusted historian wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel#cite_note-5
http://www.greek-names.info/aggelos-or-angelos/
http://www.greek-names.info/aggelos-or-angelos/

(1)Aggelos or Angelos is a popular male Greek name, [/b]deriving from the homonym word [size=18pt]“aggelos” which in ancient Greek was referring to the messenger.[/size]

(2)[size=18pt]Today, [/size][b]the same word is used as a noun, referring to the angel.

can you see the difference, from onset it was used only for messenger

and today, later for 'spirit sons of God' who were later called as angel, supernatural in form,nature by default.

you hideout Exposed!

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 10:27am On Aug 28, 2013

benalvino: more BS from you... first you said this

when i said you are still calling them angel as their nature or describing them as angels then you change it to this

^^notice the single quote and how it made your statement look...
then you said this to justify why you change angel to messenger in that post

now since angels = messenger i agree from the get go... but now am asking this
when i say "messenger" what i my referring to?
a: spirits (...)
b: humans (elijah)
c: animals(dog, pigeon)
d: human spirit(dead humans)

and all you can come up with is this crap

[size=18pt]funny thing is that i reply before and after the change.... can you try to be a sincere person?[/size]

i notified you before, LOGIC WONT GO check if again i deliberately did that the same way you bolded Angel in mine post, ok

bernimoore: OH, THAT LOGIC WONT GO, since Angel=messenger,

and because it was my post, im allowed to present my point as i want grin grin grin grin im removing Angel since it means messenger 'in quote'

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 10:09am On Aug 28, 2013

benalvino: I ask you a question instead of you to answer it you are dodging... you must answer the question... when i say "messenger" what i my referring to?
a: spirits (...)
b: humans (elijah)
c: animals(dog, pigeon)
d: human spirit(dead humans)

oya answer

i own the post, yours reply was afterthough to to change my meaning and it was wrong to imput your own meaning, mine own and you knew that, so, it is logical to assume my meaning in quote.

if it was you post, fine so you swallowed it along with the quote i planted

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 10:03am On Aug 28, 2013

[size=18pt]you are saying that Angels are servant(by default) and supernatural spirit/form/nature (by default) [/size] grin

thats it,

that is ambigous!

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 9:54am On Aug 28, 2013

you denied saying messenger is angels nature,

author=benalvinothen you went on to say angels are supernatural spirit in form/nature exactly what i have been saying... then you say their task messenger is not a nature... like i said before their task is to serve God and Humans... [size=18pt]i never said messenger is their nature..[/size].

yet you admit servant as their default nature;

benalvino: good question..

angels are to serve God and man... the bible differentiate angels from man... [size=14pt]angels are servant by default and humans are not...[/size]
an angel is a nature that is why the bible translates supernatural spirits as angel and when same [size=14pt]task is performed by man it translate a messenger...[/size]

fact is the words are common in meaning... aggelos was applied to spies... it can be applied to a dog or pigeon.

again the words should be used rightly and the way the context suggest..

remember elohim means God it also means great too... like the great[elohim] earthquake the bible talks about... wont there be problem if that passage is translated god earthquake?

while messenger and angel can be use interchangeably we should consider using it right in a way it fits the context...

like i said before there is a reason aggelos translates an angel and messenger...
because one is the nature of some supernatural spirits.

without using your dictionary, in your own words, what is the difference btw messenger and servants?

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 9:33am On Aug 28, 2013

benalvino: hahaha making your self look more stupid...

that is your answer to my question therefore you are saying messengers like Isaiah are supernatural spirits! hahahahahaha
you want to kill me with laugh. you have made your self a complete joke

you swallow hook in your laugh, i put the messenger 'in quote' meaning it is subjected not to your own discretion my mine own preffered meaning.ok grin

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 9:30am On Aug 28, 2013

benalvino: and mind you... [size=18pt]animals have flesh too as you put it default... So is it safe to call animals humans?[/size]

then you went on to say angels are supernatural spirit in form/nature exactly what i have been saying... then you say their task messenger is not a nature... like i said before their task is to serve God and Humans... i never said messenger is their nature...

Good point,

the bible says humans and animal are same form by default= [b]from dust they were made[/b]

[size=18pt]Ecclesiastes 3:18-21

"sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.” 19 For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. 21 Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?[/size]

can you see why a slave cannot have another 'form/nature' by default? you must change the answer i trust you oya shocked

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 9:10am On Aug 28, 2013

OH, THAT LOGIC WONT GO, since Angel=messenger,

and because it was my post, im allowed to present my point as i want grin

im removing Angel since it means messenger 'in quote'

BERNIMOORE: you knew that supernatural spirits are 'a nature/form' but[b] you DELIBERATELY NOT ADDED 'form/nature' to supernatural spirits, leaving the statement 'open for twist'[/b] i saw it,

we are called humans, NOT WITHOUT REASON BUT BECAUSE OUR NATURE/FORM IS HUMAN/FLESH by default

[size=18pt]'Messenger'[/size] are supernatural spirit form/nature by default, called [size=18pt]'sons of God'[/size] their task 'messenger' is NOT a nature but task

if you want us to troll again, im ready,

how do you see that?

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Jesus, The Son Of God, Is NOT An Angel by BERNIMOORE: 8:51am On Aug 28, 2013

how can you say 'messenger is a nature' by default,

or 'nature/form of an angel' is a nature by default outside the first nature;supernatural nature/form,IMPLICATION= simply means SLAVES ARE OF 'FORM OF SLAVE' by default, grin

while a slave who is a human in form by default has 2 forms/nature by default grin

how does it look like, funny isnt it? dont bring long story here, go straight to answer undecided

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