₦airaland Forum

Yes I see.
What I'm saying is if John's birth was prophesied in Malachi as a messenger which you believe all messengers are Angels

because I can see that's your point that Jesus is an Angel. Then according to malachi John also must be an Angel because he's a messenger promise to come.

Joagbaje:

The word means "minister " or messenger . So a christian minister who serves is an angel in this sense . It also means pastor .


Revelation 2:12
And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; . . . KJV

Revelation 2:12
"Write this letter to the leader of the church in Pergamos:. . .. LNT

So we have the human angels by the virtue of their ministerial office and we have spiritual beings called angels who are spiritual servants

Galatians 4:14
. .. but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

That's why I let you to know that be a messenger doesn't necessarily mean Angel but sometimes someone to fulfilled a certain obligatory. Do you agree?

I know because He(Jesus) lives inside the Holyspirit

isaiah 42;1-6
42 “Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,
My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him;He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles

I have shown you how Jesus can be called a servant in other tread.

As Luke redefine the prophesy of Malachi, likewise Jesus has redefined His own prophesy of God puting His own spirit on Him.

John 5:26 "For as the Father hath life in Himself, so hath He(Father) given to the Son to have life in Himself" Emphasis added...here Jesus make it clear that He(Jesus) didn't has life before when He was with God as His WORD...notice the phrase "Hath He given".

No! Even your next statement refutes this. In John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with you (together with yourself) thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was(before time start). Emphasis added.

You'll get it better by replacing 'His Son' with 'His Word', my answer is NO! because He created everything by His Word Heb 11:3. And this WORD only become a flesh in the person of Jesus.

Then you're limiting the attribute of God 'Omni-potent' and the is how you will know that God is not like a human.

How possible for a virgin to conceived?
How possible for denser body float on water?
How possible for lifeless body after three comes back to life without decomposed. All this are question our finite knowledge need answers to about All powerful God.

To God Himself, but your word is also you and nobody can seperate your word from you.He is the spoken word of God.....All things was created through Him(Jesus) John 1:10 "He(Jesus) was in the world, and the world was made by Him(Jesus), and the world knew Him(Jesus) not"

It's depend on what you mean by begotten, you mean born as a human or what?



He was only beggotten when God spoke His word into Mary's womb. Jesus is the spoken word of God that's why He was with God BEFORE the foundation of the world (means when the universe and all his host haven't being at all)

1) Imagine you and your Jr Bro was in a room and you're feeling hungry and you told him "help me get a plate of rice with two meats" your Bro will do according to the command received from you.

(2) Let's assume your Brother is not with you and you need that food, you then spoke into air "a plate rice with two meats come out" suddendly it appeared according to your command without moving an inch then you will realise that you only issue a COMMAND while your WORD performed the action.

3) Let's assume again your Brother isn't there and you decided not to talk what will happen, Nothing!

In 1, God didn't send anybody to do all the works of creations

In 2, God didn't do it with His own rather He issue a command through His mouth

and HIS WORD performed the actions according to His command

....here God's word is like a messenger.....

In 3, Nothing will happen if God decided not to talk.

that's why John 1:3 said "All things were made by him(the word); and without Him(the word) was not any thing made that was made"

Finally, this God's WORD was only given a name when the WORD becam flesh....Emmanuel....God is with US.

Yes Jesus pre-exist His birth



If we both agree that Angels are messengers, then the same thing applied to both John and Jesus because John wasn't born when Malachi was written.

Again you speak without understanding, using the literal interpretations of scripture(begat/begotten) instead of their spiritual and symbolic meaning and hence you are misled. To begat means to usher into a dispensation/mandate. Just like a literal birth ushers a baby into this external, physical world or when by adoption a stranger is ushered into the role/dispensation of sonship, God begetting Jesus ushers him(jesus) into his roles, whether unto the law or unto the spirit of grace. In whatever case, you are a son of whatever dispensation you were begotten(ushered/mandated) into.

Bros, I'm just gonna assume you don't read your bible, else you'd know that the law was administered by angels.

you who have received the law that was given through angels but have not obeyed it." (Acts 7:53)

Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. (Galatians 3:19)

Using caustic words is bad.

Thanks, we are here to share knowledge so there's no need to be bashing ourself.

I only read amplified version which gives more details about the verse you quoted but I always use KJV.

"Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and theLord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith theLordof hosts."KJV

This is how amplified put its own:
"Behold, I send My [a] messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me. And the Lord [the Messiah], Whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; the [b] Messenger or Angel of the covenant, Whom you desire, behold, He shall come, says the Lord of hosts."

Footnotes:
a. Malachi 3:1 This is fulfilled in John the Baptist (Matt. 11:10; Mark 1:2; Luke 1:76).
b. Malachi 3:1The Messiah as God’s representative will confirm and establish the covenant (see Isa. 42:6).
At the footnote John baptist was the one who fulfilled the first statement while Jesus fulfilled the last. Now can we say John the baptist also is an angel? Thou amplified put or Angel in place of messenger. the B of the footnote clearified the doubt, means the MESSENGER in that verse simply refers to someone who will come and perform the obligatory.

My stance of show face again on this tread is when you said Apostle Paul called Jesus an angel in that verse. Gal 4:14 which is not so; 1) the conjunction word in btw the two phrases used as an adverb is EVEN. So check the mean of this word. And see how amplified put it whether I'm wrong or not; Gal 4:14 "And [yet] although my physical condition was [such] a trial to you, you did not regard it with contempt, or scorn and loathe and reject me; but you received me as an angel of God, [even] as Christ Jesus [Himself]! Amp

truthislight: 1cor 3:23
"In turn, You belong to christ, christ in turn belongs to God"

Mmmmmm !

We belong to christ as christians, in turn christ belong to God

@Benimoor

what do you say ? In what way does christ belong to God ?

Is it different from the way we belong to christ ?

Joagbaje: Adoption is maturity for responsibility . Jesus became adopted when he recieved the holyghost.

But he was declared son of God with power though the resurrection from the dead

Romans 1:4
And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

benalvino: [size=18pt]keep quiet i beg you[/size]... show us verse jesus was called michael or michael was called jesus or jesus is an archangel.
“He [God] has [size=18pt]not[/size] put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to angels” (2:5).

whom will it be in subjection? Jesus, “the appointed heir of all things” (Hebrews 1:2). “All authority” has been given, not to any angel, but to Jesus (Matthew 28:18). All angels, authorities, and powers “have been made subject to Him” (1 Peter 3:22). “In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him” (Hebrews 2: 8 ). Jesus, therefore, is not Michael, the archangel, “for it was [size=18pt]not[/size] to angels that God subjected the world to come” (Hebrews 2:5).

benalvino: Bernimoore you did not watch the Video because of
1: your 10 mega byte mtn data plan will expire
2: your socalled faithful and discrete slave ask you not to watch it because they add the phrase "apostate" to it...

benalvino: Its not worth it man. Don't bother talking to them...
Barrister aka Berninoore has binally gone nuts... That reputation he was trying to build has shown he was just a pretender that comes to nairaland trying to seek respect by trying to make others look stupid. Now he is the one behaving stupid. Check is comment how unintelligent they are. And he was same person that was taking permission to post links saying it is respect. The guy just expose so I see no reason to talk much cause my work is done.

Emusan: This is how you people misinterprete the Bible, Paul's statement here is as simple as ABC

received me as an angel(messenger) of God, even as (the way they received Christ Jesus), not as Jesus as an angel

14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Here Paul was talking about his reception into descipleship as they received him as an angel even the way they received Jesus. WE CAN SAY WITH FAITH because of what Saul-Paul did in the past.

Shalom!

He spoke His word into Mary's womb and the word became flesh John 1:14

He is, but angels are not with God before the foundation of the world.

As per Bible give me the role of Jesus when He was in heaven.

BERNIMOORE:

he was an appointed person [size=18pt]like[/size] a secretary to the boss thats the role, note that!

Bro I believe with simple term you should've understood my point there "not the fallen one" still referring to the thing I'm talking about Angels hmmmmmmmm.

okeyxyz: And since you guys are arguing over whether Angels are sons or not, Allow me to break it down for you.

A son is simply a somebody who is a bearer of the will\Mandates of his superior(father) and exercises them. These were the jobs of Angels, to carry out Gods mandates; Because they had the mandates of God, they also had supernatural capabilities which is granted them through these authority. Thus they are like God and are the sons of God. Now, note that they were the sons of God under the dispensation of the law; The law was the legal institution operated/allowed by God and the angels where the enforcers of these laws; hence they represented God(by mandate) and therefore were "The sons of God";

Okay fast forward to the new testament; God has moved away from the Law of Moses(law of sin and death) and unto his true law/nature, which is total liberty from the law. There is only one person whom God revealed this true nature/mandate to, thus only one person who actually did the will of the father and who was the true son of God. This was Jesus Christ, The Only Begotten. Not even the Angels had this revelation and mandate. The angels had the mandate of the law and were the sons under the dispensation of law, while Jesus had the mandate of the spirit and thus he is the son under the dispensation of the spirit of truth.

The angels had the mandate of the law and were the sons under the dispensation of law

Itsfacts: Monkey no one is talking to you go and rest mumu barrister

Emusan: Who was Jesus and His role when He was in heaven? Since you believe His pre-existence.

Not all Angels are the sons of God i.e the fallen one.

We also became sons and daugthers of God through Him.

Who was this verse talking about;
John 1:10 "10 He was in the world, [b]and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not."

Itsfacts: you foolish like this na U they call ya self barrister

benalvino: Jesus created satan...

Satan was a cherub

[size=18pt]1.Satan was in the garden in the form of a serpent [/size](Genesis 3:1; Revelation 20:2).
2.Since Satan is not God we know he was created and as all of creation, he was a part of the very good (Genesis 1:31).
[size=18pt]3.This one in the garden was a cherub. We know that in the garden were Adam, Eve, Satan, [/size] and God from Genesis 3. Neither Adam, Eve, or God are a cherub. Who does that leave? satan right?
4.Satan could at one time appear before God (Job 1:6; 2:1; II Kings 22:19-22), thus he was in heaven.
you know the angels are called sons of God and when they present their selves before God satan was also there...
5.Satan quickly became sinful (John 8:44).
6.Satan's downfall was pride. "Lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil" (I Timothy 3:6).
7.Satan was cast out of heaven (II Peter 2:4; Jude 6; Revelation 12:7-9; 20:2-3).

okeyxyz: OP makes a commentary(against trinity) that Jesus(Christ) had not always been before the the declaration: "This day have I begotten thee..", yet he fails(or refuses) to recognize that the scriptures he quoted actually validates the same pre-existence that he's arguing against.



Surely the passage above confirms Christ's pre-existence as the son of God. No??

Hebrews 1
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by[size=18pt] His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He[/size] made the worlds