₦airaland Forum

[b]@the funclub enterprise:
your quote below shows that you are not imformed about why people, i mean people outside 'oyedepo's church has got the 'bragging right' yes, the right to critisize the mans action,

your quote;

Are u saying u have never been slapped against ur will?
Are u saying u have never slapped any1?
Then do u agree wit me that u should prosecute some people to court or u should be prosecuted to court too if ur answers are yes and this should be an evidence that u hav assulted people too?

[size=14pt]When did slap turn such a big deal in 9ja!...its an assult that we have all embrassed since all of us are guilty if u wanna put it this way!!
Why blow it out of proportion cos its a man of God involved now?[/size]

oyedepo's action really shows that he is unsuitable,or unqualified to be a bishop, why do i say that, the holy scripture's standard for 'who qualifies as an overseer;bishop,deacons etc' as set out strictly in the bible were manipulated, how, see below pls,

see the requirement of the bishop/deacons,if oyedepo is worthy,from the bible pls;(self acclaimed) General overseers,;

1 Timothy 3 :1-13;
New King James Version (NKJV)
Qualifications of Overseers

3 This is a faithful saying: [size=14pt]If a man desires the position of a bishop,[/size][a] he desires a good work. [size=14pt]2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable,[/size] able to teach; 3 not given to wine,[size=16pt] not violent[/size],[size=14pt] not greedy for money,[b] but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; [/size]4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. [size=18pt]7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, [/size][size=14pt]lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.[/size]

Qualifications of Deacons

8 [size=14pt]Likewise deacons must be reverent,[/size] not double-tongued, not given to much wine,[size=14pt] not greedy for money, [/size]9 holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. 10 But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless. 11 Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

now you will wonder where the fault is, its just because many so called MOG today choose pastors that they feel that they can work with, also they are immune to all charges,because they are 'thought to be bigger than God',

they fire pastors at will, and these lesser pastors who are suppose to constitute a commitee to check church's activities and members excesses were even compelled to be under or behind the wife of the Gen. overseer in hireachy, and so it became a family business.

isn'nt that a shame?


you can call jesus or command jesus as your houseboy but you call oyedepo 'papa',

lets see jesus view on that,[size=14pt]jesus adressing the religious leaders pharisees below[/size];

Mathew 23:5-17,
5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.

8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. [size=16pt]9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.[/size] 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11[size=14pt] The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.[/size]

[size=14pt]can BISHOP OYEDEPO HUMBLES HIMSELF LIKE JESUS BELOW? PLS READ;[/size]

john 13:12
[size=14pt]12 When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. “Do you understand what I have done for you?” he asked them. 13 “You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet. 15 I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you.[/size] 16 Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. [size=16pt]17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.[/size]

UNFORTUNATELY WE ARE TOLD TO 'COMMAND' JESUS TODAY TO DO ANYTHING BUT WITH FEAR TO CALL OYEDEPO 'PAPA', NOW WHO IS GREATER TO YOU?PLS BE HONEST!

but then you cant mock God,
and jesus said by their fruit you shall know them, slapping is an assault,and it shows that oyedepo is unqualified to be a bishop.simple.

[/b]

@ptolomeus

Christians say the Bible is the Word of God. The Bible is a collection of stories collected and selected on the whims of the church.
I do not say that the Bible is the word of god, the Christians say.
In fact, Jesus did not form any woman apostle ...
or if he did?

your quote above starts with 'christians say' which shows that you are not one, sorry the site is meant for christians, so, ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooout pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease. now!

Unfortunately today,many out of ignorance failed to heed jesus warnings as to the true religion,and how the christian church should operated.

Many claimed to be bishops,pastors or Deacons without the due course,and followers too choose to remain ignorance by blindly following these self acclaimed men of God.Many do not even knoe that there are laid down rules and criteria that 'older men of the church' must prayerfully consider before choosing someone as Bishops,Daecons, Gen.Overseers or Pastor.

But rather, an individual who claimed that he receives a call, will impose himself to be a bishop/General overseer and Automatically also impose the wife as 'a senior pastor' and she ranked superior over the men pastors in hierachy rank,and she automatically doubled with the power of 'a co signatory' to all the churches funds and bank accounts.

but then does it follow the command below?;

1 Timothy 3 :1-13;
New King James Version (NKJV)
Qualifications of Overseers

3 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop,[a] he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,[b] but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. 7[size=14pt] Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside[/size], lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Qualifications of Deacons

8 Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, 9 holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. 10 [size=18pt]But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless.[/size] 11 Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[size=14pt]Their wives are not commanded to lead the church,[/size];
1 Corinthians 14:34-35
King James Version (KJV)
34[b] Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak[/b]; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

now, if you must die for a particular faith, are you not supposed to know weather its practices were in line with what the bible said.

@ ijawkid,
sorry i misunderstood you,
i thought that you are supporting 'the modern day tongue speaking, but having gone through your earlier post,i just realised that we are almost saying the same thing, i thing i agree with your comment below;

Knowledge and prophesying too has ceased too...

Are u still writing d bible??

Knowledge has indeed ceased....

Prophesies were climaxed @ revelations...

That's why any prophecy outside d boundaries of d bible(genesis to revelation) given by any charlatan today is always null and void...

We have a complete bible my brother...

We dnt need all those prophesying and tongues speaking....
Did it occur to u that we are in d last days and soon the end will ensue...

All we need is to keep awake and apply understanding to Gods commands and practice...

@zikky,
how are you?

Jem1: @ East, so

1. You agree the tithing during the law is not for Christians BUT
2. You believe Malachi curses under the law are for Christians TODAY

zikky's comment;
[size=14pt]In his desperate attempt to make some sense, the poor chap maneuvered himself into a tight corner, lol[/size]

im dying with laughter here when i saw your reply above (bolded), i have already typed my reply to it but realised that you have just done justice to that,anyway, i dont know why people who don't or refuse to have a sound knowledge of something but out of fear or being brainwashed to 'submit' to heresy will just come out to display some ignorance.

@Ijawkid,
How dare you try to confuse issues here, in your quote below;

So 1 Corinthians 13:8 says tongues should have ceased bah? Why didn't you also say knowledge should have ceased - [size=14pt]there won't have been any need for you to attend any educational institution, abi?[/size]

the issue here is that why do you confuse 'revelational knowledge' with 'mere educational knowledge'?

further in verse 9;
1 Corinthians 13:9,states that;

9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part.

earlier in verse 2 of 1corinthians, paul had already explained revelational spirit that leads to the 'knowledge'.


1 cor 2:10-12;
10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.

this kind of Knowledge is not learned, but operates automatically.
its very funny when some people says that they learn 'speaking in tongue', no you dont, when you learn it then be sure that what you are doing is what is termed 'grossolalia'.

Also in your quote below, stop personalising what bible says;

Why didn't you also say knowledge should have ceased

Again,
How dare you are changing 'a plain'statements of facts recorded in acts chapter 2,you convieniently quoted acts 2, which is very plain on the issue of 'every man hearing their own language'
but your quote below you inserted your own meaning meant to 'confuse' or 'distort',
here is your comment;(emphasis on bolded ones)

This is the mystery of the gift of tongues that most people don't realize -[size=14pt] the message was HEARD in their languages, not necessarily SPOKEN in their languages.[/size] It is a truly unique gift by God to pass a message directly unto another - [size=14pt]someone may be speaking in tongues and hearing themselves say "potopatapata", but the person who God intends to hear the message being passed across will hear that message IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE.[/size]

your bolded statement in blue was not in agreement with acts 2:6-8 below,which you quoted,


Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, [size=14pt]because that every man heard them speak in his own language. [/size]
Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Therefore,your statement below;

the message was HEARD in their languages, not necessarily SPOKEN in their languages.

is a fabricated notion and a self imposed concept following your own rules and it ran foul of the 'reason of speaking in tongue'.

[b]@east,
your quote below;

The Bible says that Levi paid tithes to Melkizedek when he was still in the body of his ancestor (Abraham).

If Abraham paid a tenth to Melkizedek and[size=14pt] Levi also paid a tenth to Melkizedek, then we have to pay our own tenth to Melkizedek also.[/size]

[size=14pt]The levi family have a covenant to rightly receive tithes from other tribes as inheritance because they are not to have an inheritance like other tribes who have to work to produce,so they dont toil the land or work for pay,but from the tithes they receive,out of it they also give out part to the temple.
That means that their paying of tithe,is a funtion of 'having receive tithe' from other tribes,their payint of tithe 'does not stand alone as standard for christians,moreso we christians are not commanded to follow that'[/size]
but if you insist then see how superflous it works following 'your principle above',
1,christians are not priests like levites who are priests.
2,christians works for a living while levites do not.

so if levi priests pay tithe 'out of tithes received from other tribes' to (i.e)melchi who is a high priest,
how do you fit in as a levi? when you work for pay, you cant be compared to a levi,
so the assertion is null and void.

[/b]

Anyway no problem,im enjoying the tread

[b]Bishop Oyedepo is bigger than jesus;
if not why would he accept to be called 'papa', pls can someone tell me the meaning of papa?
and lets compare it with jesus instructions below;pls read from your own bible too;jesus adressing the religious leaders pharisees below;

Mathew 23:5-17,
5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; [size=16pt]6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.

8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 1[/size]1 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.
can BISHOP OYEDEPO HUMBLES HIMSELF LIKE JESUS BELOW? PLS READ;

john 13:12
12 When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. “Do you understand what I have done for you?” he asked them. 13 [size=16pt]“You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet. 15 I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. 16 Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. 17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.[/size]
UNFORTUNATELY WE ARE TOLD TO 'COMMAND' JESUS TODAY TO DO ANYTHING BUT WITH FEAR TO CALL OYEDEPO 'PAPA', NOW WHO IS GREATER TO YOU?PLS BE HONEST![/b]

@image123,
you claimed that Abrahams tithe was based on 'revelation',which was a surprise twist from the earlier claims by the tithe Advocates,
kindly back your revelation claims with bible backings,im waiting pls,thanks.

abraham did not give tithe under law, there was no law during his time. [size=18pt]He gave tithes based on his revelation.[/size]

explanation pleeaaaase.

All that has happened is that [size=16pt]they uphold the traditions of men above the Word of God!
[/size]
JUST ON POINT, PROVEN FACT

is your pastor or General overseer more important to you or bigger than God or jesus to you that you can command jesus anyhow like your houseboy but call oyedepo DADDY and cannot commant him?, then something is wrong somewhere,check yourself now.when a pastor or bishop is self acclaimed,[size=14pt]see the requirement of the bishop/pastor,if oyedepo is worthy,from the bible pls[/size];(self acclaimed) General overseers,;

1 Timothy 3 :1-13;
New King James Version (NKJV)
Qualifications of Overseers

3 This is a faithful saying:[size=14pt] If a man desires the position of a bishop[/size],[a] he desires a good work. 2[size=16pt] A bishop then must be blameless,[/size] the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent,[size=16pt] not greedy for money,[/size][b] but gentle, not quarrelsome,[size=16pt] not covetous;[/size] 4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.[size=16pt] 7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach [/size]and the snare of the devil.

Qualifications of Deacons

8 Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, [size=16pt]not greedy for money[/size], 9 holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. 10 But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons,[size=16pt] being found blameless.[/size] 11 Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[b]@image123

your quote below;

where do you get the idea that the commandment must be kept by following the letter?[size=14pt] The pharisees followed the letter and Jesus was continuously correcting that we follow the Spirit, not the letter.[/size] Jesus told the Jews "none of YOU keeps the law".

you claimed that jesus indicted the pharisees for following the letter, but none of your 3 quoted bible verses you supplied did mention 'the pharisees' or even any of those comments there were not to the pharisees but instead it was paul counselling.read again now;

image123 quote

"Who also hath MADE US ABLE MINISTERS of the new testament; NOT OF the LETTER, but of the spirit: for THE LETTER KILLETH, but the spirit giveth life." (2 Corinthians 3:6).
"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that WE SHOULD SERVE in newness of spirit, and NOT IN the oldness of THE LETTER." (Romans 7:6).

[size=14pt]even the last of the bible you quoted,was not even relating to jesus 'indictment of the pharisees'as you claim, read your quoted bible verse again;below
[/size]
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, THEY ARE SPIRIT, and they are life. " (John 6:63)

[size=14pt]And let me humbly repeat,that jesus was never Against the pharisees keeping the law or commandment,yes,but rather want them to keep it 'honestly'.not hypocrytically applying one,while leaving others,but want them to be 'strict' observant together with compassion.[/size]and that is what the rule concerning the law says,that if you 'must keep the law and fail in even one,you have failed in all the laws' confirm this;

James 2:10
For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God's laws.

But the pharisees had their own traditional belliefs which contradicts the law commandment and that is where jesus rebuke them below;

mark 7:9
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’;[d] and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’[e] 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, [size=14pt]13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”[/size]

back to your quote below;

The pharisees followed the letter and [size=14pt]Jesus was continuously correcting[/size] that we follow the Spirit, not the letter.

[size=14pt]i repeat that jesus 'never correct' adherence or keeping to the law.in fact he need not,why?

because

It Is A Known Fact That When Jesus Was Born, He Was Born Into The Law, But For A Purpose;Read Galatians 4:4,5.

Galatians 4:4,5,

4 But When The Fullness Of The Time Had Come, God Sent Forth His Son, Born Of A Woman, Born Under The Law,

5 To Redeem Those Who Were Under The Law, That We Might Receive The Adoption As Sons.


This Explains Why Jesus Did Not Neccesarily Stop 'An Existing Law On Tithe' Binding On Only Jews Which Jesus Himself Met,But Because His Coming Will Not Only Put An End To 'Tithing Demanded By Law' But The Whole Entire 'Binding Written Law' Is About To End on the turture stake at his death.
[/size][/b]

[b]@image123,
oga sir,
in your quote below;
may i say that you have erred in (bolded letters bellow),it pained me to use the word(erred) but jesus never accused the pharisees of following letters but spirit,

in your quote below;,

[size=14pt]where do you get the idea that the commandment must be kept by following the letter? The pharisees followed the letter and Jesus was continuously correcting that we follow the Spirit, not the letter.[/size] Jesus told the Jews "none of YOU keeps the law". What are the holy items you keep talking about? There is no 'holy item' anywhere. What you give to God is holy, holy basically means separate. Stop all this unbiblical mystery about holy items and holy lands. Jesus was talking about scribes, not about farmers.

what jesus accused the pharisees of is tottally different, how, they follow 'traditions of the elders' which is totally against the written law.we here are not babies, read yourself,or counter it;

mark 7:3

3 For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands in a special way,[size=14pt] holding the tradition of the elders. [/size]4 When they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other things which they have received and hold, like the washing of cups, pitchers, copper vessels, and couches.

[size=14pt]5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders,[/size] but eat bread with unwashed hands?”

[size=14pt]6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:

‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men[/size][c] —the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”

[size=14pt]9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’;[d] and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’[e] 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”[/size]
please sir,furnish me with counter claims to back your claims,

thanks and God bless.

[size=14pt]is there any recorded revelation concerning what Abraham did? or just mere Guessing and speculation? anyway lets wait for the bible verse that support that[/size]

[b]@kay17

Its like non believers respect God more than his followers

Do you know why?
because many follow pastors today,and General overseers who have assumed 'large than life' stature greater than both God and jesus christ, what you see as supreme in churches today is the pastor and the wife, when reffering to the General overseer or their pastors, what you hear is 'what Daddy says' or 'papa' says and not what the bible says, so what they say is final and unchallenged.
read below;
2 tim 4:3
[color=#000099]3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;[/color [size=14pt]4 ]and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. [/size][size=14pt]5 But you be watchful in all things[/size], endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

some dont even reasoned that while they are praying they easily 'command God'; 'in jesus name' to do this or that, but fear will not allow them to ask or even tell their pastor that 'i command you to answer my question today' they dare not why,because their pastors has assumed the position greater than God.

'they command' a whole jesus as quickly as possible to do what they cannot even send their houseboy,its a shame that people have been blinded not to feel 'what jesus died for'

when you notice that sign of pastor being too much important, then there is a problem,period!.
[/b]

[size=14pt]infact i was more than shocked when i read the quoted book of james 1:2,3. only to read further verses in the same chpt 1,and the answers was just there in verse 13.
and many out of those who commented underneath could not point out the flaw.

i think our problem in this country is that we have abandoned the 'reading and meditation'culture, thats too bad.[/size]

@image123
you see, the joy of these is that 'the scriptures states' what people dont like to hear,below (bolded);

Repetition of vacuous points would not cut it for christians that are not tossed by every wind of doctrine. Winds like continually stating [size=14pt]that everything associated with the law has been done away with[/size],

it has been pened down for more than 2000 yrs ago in sacred scriptures,its not me or anyone exercising 'faith' that wrote it, at least for emphasis sake read it from your own bible again there with you,

Galatians 3:19,24.

19 Why, Then, Was The Law Given At All? It Was Added Because Of Transgressions Until The Seed To Whom The Promise Referred Had Come. The Law Was Given Through Angels And Entrusted To A Mediator.

24 So The Law Was Our Guardian Until Christ Came That We Might Be Justified By Faith.

[size=14pt]Colossians 2:14,

14 Having Wiped Out The Handwriting Of Requirements That Was Against Us, Which Was Contrary To Us. And He Has Taken It Out Of The Way, Having Nailed It To The Cross.[/size]
it doesn't hurt to read inspired scriptures,of course its obvoius,

so dont personalise it as if it was ones opinion but 'a God breath and inspired written statement of fact.

thanks.

[size=16pt]is it very clear now?[/size]

@iconic s
thanks for the reply,but
your quote below;

The tithe is paid not just given.

Abraham's case is never refered to as 'paid' because There was no standard then religiously bindind him until the levites received the 'inheritance of tithing' it was after this that tithes were said to be paid, simple.



your statement below,is directed at the levites, not christians;

8 “Should people cheat God? Yet you have cheated me!
“But you ask, ‘What do you mean? When did we ever cheat you?’
“You have cheated me of the tithes and offerings due to me. 9 You are under a curse, for your whole nation has been cheating me. 10 Bring all the tithes into the storehouse so there will be enough food in my Temple. If you do,” says the LORD of Heaven’s Armies, “I will open the windows of heaven for you. I will pour out a blessing so great you won’t have enough room to take it in! Try it! Put me to the test! (Mal 3:8-10 NLT).

how do i mean;

PLS NOTE,that the Book of Malachi, was the last book of old testament.and that jesus was yet to be born then.

lets read who the message is being directed to or principally reffered to;

Malachi 3:3,4;
Malachi 3:3-4
New King James Version (NKJV)
3 He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver;
He will purify the [size=14pt]sons of Levi,[/size]
And purge them as gold and silver,
That they may offer to the Lord
An offering in righteousness.

4 “Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem
Will be pleasant to the Lord,
As in the days of old,
As in former years.

so,its obvious that the book of malachi (OT)was directed to the levites prists who 'had a covenant'to receive tithes as their inheritance,because they are not awarded any land as inheritance,but failed to carryout their duties by receiving and offering of'lame' animals to God, while 'they' 'levi priest' would keep the Good ones for themselves after receiving from the people.'the levites' and 'the isreal nation' were pronounced to have robbed God,...by
a,accepting lame animals or meat.
b,turning back widow and the fatherless,of whom had a share in the tithe under the 'convenant'.
c,some of levi priest would even get drunk, and some will even have fornicated and adulterate with women,
please read
(malachi 3:4-9)and you will see it yourself.

[size=14pt]Another reason is that this particular old testament book Of Malachi chapter 3 tithe relating to the levites is gone with the law, by ANNULMENT,see below;[/size]

Hebrew 7:11,12 and 18;

11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? [size=14pt]12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
18, For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,
[/size]
further confirmation below;

Colossians 2:14,

14 Having Wiped Out The Handwriting Of Requirements That Was Against Us, Which Was Contrary To Us. And He Has Taken It Out Of The Way, Having Nailed It To The Cross.

@solasola,
im only replying because im expecting an answer, but pls lets keep this forum peacefull, back to the question;

@ 123image, @bernimoore, @am i getting something wrong here?

If Abraham gave or paid a tenth of the Spoils, does this imply in anyway that it was a law?

Simple question, i need simple answer from the bible

My answer will not be an open and close, No, first but permit me to add my few reasons,

Definately there was no binding law that religiously obligates Abraham to 'pay a tithe' but rather he voluntarily 'Gave a tenth' of spoils,which is even common with pagan nation around then.
even Abrahams father Terah was a pagan worshiper.read pls its there in your bible;

Joshua 24:2

King James Version (KJV)

2 And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.

There Was Actually A General Tenth Parth Which Is Of Pagan Origin And Precedes The Mosaic Law’s Tithe By Many Centuries,
The Separation Of A Certain Proportion Of The Products Of One’s Industry Or Of The Spoils Of War As Tribute To Their Gods Was Practiced By Various Nations Of Antiquity. The Lydians Offered A Tithe Of Their Booty [size=14pt](Herod. I, 89).[/size]

The Phoenicians And Carthaginians Sent A Tithe Annually To The Tyrian Hercules. These Tithes Might Be Regular Or Occasional, Voluntary Or Prescribed By Law.

Not untill the innauguration of the 'law convenant' with the levi sons of Aaron, that Tithing Actually have a its own scriptural defination, mainly on increase and not on 'spoils'.and those who tries to justify their tithing claim following Abraham voluntary 'TENTH PART' are hard pressed and could not sustain the claim as it fades when faced with batches of proofs.

i hope you will not fine me,ha ha ha ha.its fun anyway.

@image123

c'mon pls, try and focus on building mature conversation and not insults,its a sign of weakness. an unpurpular way of bullying,even the person you are insulting is not replying you,isn'nt that noteworty,now you jump to the conclution of 'satan at work' when you insults the person? this attitude should not be encouraged.

I said Abraham paid tithes of the spoils, possessions of the defeated 5kings and their armies. The 5kings and their armies had possessions, plus the spoils they got from victory over other cities apart from Sodom. Abraham gave Sodom his property, not the property of the 5kings and other defeated kingdoms and their armies. Is this a problem of comprehension or can satan also be at work here. i do hope it's just the first.

Abraham gave a tenth sir, not paid a tenth, show us where Abraham was alleged to have 'paid tithe',and lets start the full debate,if you are ready,
thanks

@iconic s
i also want to commend your 'humble acceptance' we including myself are all learning, but cant you just try not to add insults to Goshen360, christians are known for tolerance, and do you know that even muslims envy that, you may not notice it, but pls lets get on peacefully,God bless.

[b]@pd piper pippen


what i want to sincerely tell you is that, you muddle things up!,and we need to separate them one by one,lovingly.pls

i will be happy if you can at least drop some of your seeming pride a little,this is not a matter of i win you or you win,noo but 'coming to full knowledge logically' and give attention to how we today 'who are not 'Gods sons' by inheritance unlike the 'old isreal' that God had 'original convenant with' when God declared the old-isrealites as his 'special property'.....but our own acceptance as 'Gods son'was through Christ 'ransome sacrifice' and so we fall in the category of 'the Gentiles'.

To start with your two quoted bible verses;
a,Malachi 3:8
b,mathew 23:23 to butress your point,but you will see below why christians 'by faith' are not concerned;

[size=14pt]PLS NOTE,that the Book of Malachi, was the last book of old testament.and that jesus was yet to be born then.[/size]

To start,pls, (a and b)treated below;

a,and lets read who the message is being directed to or principally reffered to;

Malachi 3:3,4;
Malachi 3:3-4
New King James Version (NKJV)
3 He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver;
He will purify[size=14pt] the sons of Levi,[/size]
And purge them as gold and silver,
That they may offer to the Lord
An offering in righteousness.

4 “Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem
Will be pleasant to the Lord,
As in the days of old,
As in former years.

so,its obvious that the book of malachi (OT)was directed to the levites prists who 'had a covenant'to receive tithes as their inheritance,because they are not awarded any land as inheritance,but failed to carryout their duties by receiving and offering of'lame' animals to God, while 'they' 'levi priest' would keep the Good ones for themselves after receiving from the people.'the levites' and 'the isreal nation' were pronounced to have robbed God,...by
a,accepting lame animals or meat.
b,turning back widow and the fatherless,of whom had a share in the tithe under the 'convenant'.
c,some of levi priest would even get drunk, and some will even have fornicated and adulterate with women,
please read
(malachi 3:4-9)and you will see it yourself.

your quote below in malachi 3:8; definately shows that you have no grasp on who was concerned.

that [size=14pt]the store house refers to the church is obvious and to contend that meat shld take the place of cash(tithe)[/size] is laughable, pls!

Also,

b,Matthew 23:23

23 “Woe To You, Scribes And Pharisees, Hypocrites! For You Pay Tithe Of Mint And Anise And Cummin, And Have Neglected The Weightier Matters Of The Law: Justice And Mercy And Faith. These You Ought To Have Done, Without Leaving The Others Undone.

Does Mathew 23:23(Above) Butress Your Point That Tithe Apply To Christians? Capital No, Why?

Jesus Is Stressing The 'Obligation That Is Attached To The Law' Also Echoed By Paul;

Read Below;

James 2:10

10 For Whoever Shall Keep The Whole Law, And Yet Stumble In One Point, He Is Guilty Of All.


James 2:10 Shows That The Law Covenant Is Wholy Binding On The Jews or old isreal, And Of Course The Law Teachers,Pharisees.
The point is if you still choose to follow the old testament meant for the isrealite? then no problem,but
James 2:10 states that 'you must keep all whole binding law'including eye for eye,toth for tooth, but if you fail in just one,you have authomatically failed 'in all' period!!!

jesus cast 'woe' on the pharisees in mathew 23:23,why;

Does This ''Woe'' Not Apply To Churches Or Pastors[size=14pt] Applying Selected Tithe In The Law,But Failed To Also Apply The ''No Tithe Giving'' On Sabbatical Year, 7th Yr ?.

Or That 'Tithe' Should Be Collected ''Only On Increase'' It Is A Binding Statement That Tithe Is Actually On Increase, And Cannot Be Negleted While Applying Tithing Rules, Is That Not A Curse?.This Are Questions Begging For Answers. [/size]

Wooooe. There Are No Two Words For The Offenders.

Now You Can See 'The Double Standards' That Jesus Is Pointing At.


why did jesus say in mathew 23:23 that 'it was bindind' (under law covenant to old isreal) to observe,and not disregarding others;answer;

It Is A Known Fact That When Jesus Was Born, He Was Born Into The Law, But For A Purpose;Read Galatians 4:4,5.

Galatians 4:4,5,

4 But When The Fullness Of The Time Had Come, God Sent Forth His Son, Born Of A Woman, Born Under The Law,

5 To Redeem Those Who Were Under The Law, That We Might Receive The Adoption As Sons.


This Explains Why Jesus Did Not Neccesarily Stop 'An Existing Law On Tithe' Binding On Only Jews Which Jesus Himself Met,But Because His Coming Will Not Only Put An End To 'Tithing Demanded By Law' But The Whole Entire 'Binding Written Law' Is About To End,

But Then, Why Do We Have Law In The First Place? The Answer Not Far Fetched;

Galatians 3:19,20.

19 Why, Then, Was The Law Given At All? It Was Added Because Of Transgressions Until The Seed To Whom The Promise Referred Had Come. The Law Was Given Through Angels And Entrusted To A Mediator. 20 A Mediator, However, Implies More Than One Party; But God Is One.

And More To That,Our Justification Is Not Through Law, But By Faith;Vs 23,24


23 Before The Coming Of This Faith, We Were Held In Custody Under The Law, Locked Up Until The Faith That Was To Come Would Be Revealed.

24 So The Law Was Our Guardian Until Christ Came That We Might Be Justified By Faith.

[size=14pt]And To Nail The Head, The Whole Entire 'Binding Written Law'(That Also Includes Tithes In All Its Entirety) As A Code Ended With The Death Of Christ;

Colossians 2:14,

14 Having Wiped Out The Handwriting Of Requirements That Was Against Us, Which Was Contrary To Us. And He Has Taken It Out Of The Way, Having Nailed It To The Cross.[/size]

And The Undisputed Fact That Jesus Did Not Instructs His Disciples And Christians To Tithe, Shed More Light On The Fact That Tithe Will End 'On The Cross'.Neither Paul And All Other Apostles Teach Tithe To Christians,

God Is 'Not Of Confusion' Never.
THANKS. [/b]

[b][quote][size=14pt]WHAT!!!20 NAIRA!!!OUR GOD IS NOT A POOR GOD, HE IS NOT A GOD OF 20 NAIRA.[/size][/quote
LETS SEE JESUS OWN VIEW ON THE 'WIDOWS MITE';
[color=#000099]Luke 21:2-3
King James Version (NKJV)

2, and He saw also a certain [size=14pt]poor widow putting in two mites[/size].

3, So He said,[size=14pt] “Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all[/size]

What we learned here is that;,
a, jesus is compassionanate and that makes him evaluate the condition of the woman,and he declared ; “Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all.
b, jesus did not condemn the widows poor condition or even relate it to previous failures on her part to tithe nor says that her poor condition was a 'curse' or 'robbing God' and Gods withdrawal of blessing from her.

so you can clearly see why jesus said;

Matthew 11:28-30
New King James Version (NKJV)
[size=14pt]28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
[/size]

Now why dont you heed jesus advice here.
you will Agree with me that pastors or General overseers have assume the position higher than both God and Jesus in your life,what do i mean,
these Pastors dont answer your questions from the bible when faced with facts,yes. they rather tell you that you should do what they ask you to do.or they ask you 'why' you ask such demanding question only to even warn you to stop the source of your questions of which jesus never did,

and something is so sure,they will never give you a satisfactory answers to your question that is even if you are allowed to meet them.

some dont even reasoned that while they are praying they can easily 'command God' in jesus name to do this or that, but fear will not allow them to ask or even tell their pastor that 'i command you to answer my question today' they dare not why,

pastors today have assumed the 'large than life stature' and what they say is final,you can approach them anyhow,who are you,whats your worth,why do you want to see the General overseer?

but 'you command' a whole jesus as quickly as possible to do what you cannot even sent your houseboy,its a shame that people have been blinded to feel 'what jesus died for'
anyway if you have questions, ask me politely, but if you think that you can insult,just try it.cheers[/b]

[b]@Aringon,
permit me to comment on your quote below,

If I may ask u,[size=14pt] where do u think the money to maintain the church and upsetting of other bills come from? Oh ye carnal mind and may God in heaven forgive u.[/size] Amen

Are you saying that God's way is not effective or God cannot care for the maitainance through righteous means?
oh no, lets consider first jesus concept of true worshippers of God;

Matthew 7:13-14
New King James Version (NKJV)

13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

you will agree with me that righteous people are few and the unrighteous are many,but we christians are warned above the consequencies of joining the many but should find the righteous few.
The issue here is that maintaining 'bills' and upkeep of these righteous few ones is not done 'with greed'or from 'smugling unscriptural means'.

examples were the apostles who gave not 'by compultion' but by 'cheerfull giving' just like the widows mite that i discussed earlier (see my last post),the righteousnss of the few individuals is what God needed and he will bless them not only materially but the 'LOVE' and AFFECTION'among the members too will grow such that people will be moved to give 'willingly out of what a person has and not giving untill it hurts' righteous ones will be moved to sell some of their possessions out of love,because they see the manifestation as those monies were actually distributed among the needy ones till they were not having a need.what a great example of love,read below;
Acts 4:34-36
King James Version (KJV)

34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Now when modern pastors and unwise followers have disobeyed jesus instruction below;(bolded)

Matthew 7:13-14
New King James Version (NKJV)

13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.

paying bills has to come by manipulations simple!!!.because they choosed the wrong way.

And to butress my point, if you want s'thing done,you will have your instructions to be followed, how much more God almighty who had a parttern.

lets see some examples in the old testament,

The unfortunate death storry of a young levi named UZZAH,
his death was caused by king David who disregard Gods pattern of carrying the terbanacle or Ark of covenant on the shoulders of 4 four levites men but choose his own settings,that is King David Got a cart like charriots dressed very beatifull and only have the levites who are supposed to put the TERBANACLE OR the Ark on their shoulder to just be walking behind the beatiful charriot,But God instructed strictly that these levites 'must not touch' the Ark or tabernacle under no circumstance, even when they used to put it on their shoulder,they used long poles as the Ark sits in the middle of two long poles and only the 'chief High priest have the right to touch it,but unfortunately when this young levi saw that the Ark nealy falls down behind the cart or chariot, he rushed to hold it, but was struck dead instantly, Obviously king david caused his death by 'changing' Gods pattern to what he feels will glorify God but fail to heed Gods instruction.

The same thing happen to saul his predeceessor,when he took big animals from spoils in the name of sacrifice to God, and was rebuked;
1 Samuel 15:22
New International Version (NIV)
22 But Samuel replied:

“Does the Lord delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the Lord?
[size=14pt]To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
[/size]

so God did not send anybody to greedily carryout things he did not commanded,thanks.

[/b]

[b][quote][size=14pt]WHAT!!!20 NAIRA!!!OUR GOD IS NOT A POOR GOD, HE IS NOT A GOD OF 20 NAIRA.[/size][/quote
LETS SEE JESUS OWN VIEW ON THE 'WIDOWS MITE';
[color=#000099]Luke 21:2-3
King James Version (NKJV)

2, and He saw also a certain [size=14pt]poor widow putting in two mites[/size].

3, So He said,[size=14pt] “Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all[/size]

What we learned here is that;,
a, jesus is compassionanate and that makes him evaluate the condition of the woman,and he declared ; “Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all.
b, jesus did not condemn the widows poor condition or even relate it to previous failures on her part to tithe nor says that her poor condition was a 'curse' or 'robbing God' and Gods withdrawal of blessing from her.

so you can clearly see why jesus said;

Matthew 11:28-30
New King James Version (NKJV)
[size=14pt]28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
[/size]

Now why dont you heed jesus advice here.
you will Agree with me that pastors or General overseers have assume the position higher than both God and Jesus in your life,what do i mean,
these Pastors dont answer your questions from the bible when faced with facts,yes. they rather tell you that you should do what they ask you to do.or they ask you 'why' you ask such demanding question only to even warn you to stop the source of your questions of which jesus never did,

and something is so sure,they will never give you a satisfactory answers to your question that is even if you are allowed to meet them.

some dont even reasoned that while they are praying they can easily 'command God' in jesus name to do this or that, but fear will not allow them to ask or even tell their pastor that 'i command you to answer my question today' they dare not why,

pastors today have assumed the 'large than life stature' and what they say is final,you can approach them anyhow,who are you,whats your worth,why do you want to see the General overseer?

but 'you command' a whole jesus as quickly as possible to do what you cannot even sent your houseboy,its a shame that people have been blinded to feel 'what jesus died for'
anyway if you have questions, ask me politely, but if you think that you can insult,just try it.cheers[/b]

[b]@ pd piper pippen,
you claimed in your comment that;

because the 10 percent of every income belongs to God see malachi 3.

pls dont muddle things up here sir, the forum is being observed by many, Malachi 3's quote on tithe;

Malachi 3:10
King James Version (KJV)
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

pls answer these questions in the bible verses that you cited,

1, 'tithes into the storehouse', sir,.............. is the church 'the storehouse'?
2, 'there may be meat in mine house' ......... again 'how did meat turned to cash payment'? pls kindly explain.
3, Are christians 'concerned with these 'command' expecially the words used like 'meat' and 'storehouse, when there was 'currency at that time called 'denarii' et all, so, explain these questions from malachi which happens to be the last book of the 'old testament' sincerely so that we can learn,thanks.

[/b]

[b]@iconic s
you erred in your statements below sir,because it seems that you did not understand them or maybe it was deliberate,but then its been laid bare;

iconic s quote;

Again Abraham didn't pay tithes from the spoils cos he returned all the spoil to the king of sodom, except what the men eat and took (Gen14:21-24).

you cleverly omit verse 20 of Genesis 14,but starts from 21-24. that act alone is misleading,pls go and stop that.
now read verse 20 that you omitted,at least for the sake of onlookers;

Genesis 14:18-20
New Living Translation (NLT)
20 And blessed be God Most High,
who has defeated your enemies for you.”
Then Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the goods he had recovered..


And to throw more light on same issue;
Hebrews 7
King James Version (KJV)
4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham [size=14pt]gave the tenth of the spoils.[/size]

iconic s quote;

Again Jacob vowed a vow that if God will fulfill the abrahamic convenant with him, that he will give "the tenth" of all that God shall give him

you quoted (Gen 28:20-22). to back up your claim above,but unfortunately,it does not support your claim,[size=14pt]jacobs vow is 'only about his journey' 'and not' about the covenant sir [/size].read yourself below;

(Gen 28:20-22).
20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying,[size=14pt] If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,

21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the Lord be my God:

22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will[i] surely give the tenth [/i]unto thee.[/size]

jacobs 'seek protection' from God to embark on a journey, and safely comes back to still meet the sign or stone or pillar he set.

I say nowhere in verse 20-22 of Gen 28 make mention of 'covenant' as you claimed.[/b]