₦airaland Forum

I said he is my friend, meaning I know him... He said he has asked God not to make him a Pastor if he will depend on people's money... He is too ambitious to even eye another source of money than the one he makes himself.. He is that rare type that can starve to Death than inconvenient you for a loaf of bread. He is like that. He actually raised up one of the Biggest mixed church here and he never for once look into the Finance or got a single Cent from church...cos that's not where his mind is... I once told him about a topic I had with some Nigerians "If you have money to save a person and that same money is your tithe money what would you do... most people said they would pay their tithe"... When I told him, he said those people dont know GOD, that before anything GOD is first LOVE

bros, you are not joagbaje, pls stop speaking on his behalf,stop selling him,let him talk on his own! OK? he is a fraud, and b4 i conclude on that,i have been on the same tread running up to 25 pages and another up to 30 pages on nairaland,and so since you are not him,stop selling him,im suspecting a foul play here!

Am touched

well,there is time for a change,

but many are just adamant for no reason!at their own peril!

When I first read about how only 8 souls among many living on the earth then survived the deluge in Noahs day, I thought it was a joke, because I never believed that many could be so engaged in personal matters despite repeated warnings for years until the flood swept them away.
Presently,we have the bible containing warning signs ‘written for those living in the endtimes’.
This tread’s CREDIBILITY ‘WILL NOT BE DETERMINED BY THE MAJORITY’S ACCEPTANCE,BUT RATHER BY THE ‘FEW ONES WITH CONCIENCE’.
lets consider some of the warnings again maybe it is worth being emphasized or not;
2 Peter 3:1-18
New King James Version (NKJV)
3 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (inboth of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us,[a] the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first:
that scoffers will come in the last days,
walking according to their own lusts,4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”
Christians are to beware of a ‘dangerous kind of people’ described as ‘scoffers’ ‘who will come in the last days,
What these ‘scoffers will be saying or seek to promote has been penned down in verse 4 above;
“Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”
Apart from atheists here on NL, we have many who are of the ‘adamant mindset’ and are ready to promote such to their peril and those that they lure,the question is (for Christians only);
Where do you belong? Do you choose to join the scoffers or Try to mend your ways?
Remember that what is happening now that people mock those who genuinely direct ones attention to the happenings that signifies the last days as prophecied in the bible …..happened to Noah and 7 others, also paul was even mocked even by a fellow Christian,who even twist some of ‘hard to be understood words’ of his epistles by Gods inspiration,read;
2 peter 3:16

16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Now,Lets see the parallel beign drawn between Noahs day and our day that is worth notice,word-for-word;
[color=#006600[b]]2 Peter 3:5-7
For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.[/b]
[/color]
Now these set of twisters,mockers and scoffers are here now(one of the last days sign),even plenty of them on the nairaland who choose to ‘reason their ways out of christ’ because they ‘have engaged their mind with harmfull knowledge’ like the one paul described as ‘empty philosophies according to the elementary things and not of christ’s.
THEY DISMISSED WARNINGS AS ‘THREATS’ the same ‘mindset that scoffers promote and spread during Noahs days that cost the whole majority their lives, you can see how scoffers mindset works as a software,immediately you embrace it knowingly or unknowingly,it works like a magic,and you automatically became ‘unresponsive’ to signs and develop an adamant ‘I don’t care attitude’.
Lets see why true Christians should be cautious not to join this set of people who lure other people because of what ‘seemed to be a delay’
2 peter 3:8-11;
But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us,[b] not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.[c] 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
And instead of joining the scoffers group,why not heed peters final warnings here;
14[b] Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you17 You therefore, beloved, since you know thisbeforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.[/b]
Lets see The Importance of staying alert,rather than joining scoffers;

luke 21:34-36
34 “But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly.35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy[a] to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”
It will not be a surprise that many who have ‘murdered their conciences’ will dismiss this reminder, and as I have said earlier
…THE CREDIBILITY OF THIS TREAD, ‘WILL NOT BE DETERMINED BY THE MAJORITY’S ACCEPTANCE,BUT RATHER BY THE ‘FEW ONES WITH CONCIENCE’.
Why do I say so, when jesus was talking about ‘the right way’ he confirmed that ‘broad and WIDE is that way that leads to destruction,and MANY are those who enjoyed plying through that way, but NARROW and CRAMP is that way leading to life,but unfortunately ‘few are those plying it’ mathew 7:14
So,im not expecting a popular embrace of these write-up, but rather state your view why many are adamant and even with plenty of time refuse to mend their ways and would rather wait for the calamity to befall them,even before the endtime,there is this death that can come at anytime,have you ever think that you can truly account for your actions,of you think that your excuses will be entertained when you have all the time now? Well,[size=14pt]dismiss it at your peril I say,what you sow,you shall reap.[/size]

Malachi 3:10 read again pls;

''Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be [size=18pt]food[/size] in My house'',

'storehouse' is not church pls

'food' is not cash, the original instruction is 'food'

you guys are going too far, was is Gods original instruction,let me ask again, did God value your tithe more than his strict instruction? no, if you must redeem,it must go with a fine! which means that you are an offender,this is Gods possition,read;

1 samuel 15:22; Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,
And to heed than the fat of rams.

joagbaje even under the old law 'choose to be an offender' paying fine with cash redeem! oleeee!

@mollie12,

your first reply to rhymz is 'just very straight to the point' in which you said something about one reasoning oneself 'into christ' or 'out of christ', unfortunately people like rhymz have got theirself into a 'curse of self destruction' declared by apostle peter(he will be shouting threat now,olodo), how do i mean, rhymz is not even worth discussing at all,because he is seeking attention,for example he just seach copy from another persons work and paste some things that he never verified by himself about apostle paul, by creating a tread 'how paul distort christianity 1 and 2, he alledged that paul was a Gay, just because paul mention that 'he had an infirmity in him' rhymz took that opportunity to 'fill in the gap' thereby falling into what peter said in 2 peter 3:15-17;

15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, [size=14pt]which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.[/size]
17 You therefore, beloved, since you know thisbeforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;

so, manage your time wisely,bacause a determined person who choose to 'reason out of christ' should be left alone to wander in his own error!ask Mr Anony on the forum, i have been following his write ups, i will post some links that you will confirm that rhymz is looking for attention, (no apology pls) he can insult but thats the truth GBAMMMMM!

@thirty

To support your point:
1. The first set of people that denied Jesus were jews and are the same christains misleading the congregtion

sorry, it was a prophecy that came to pass, so it was pre-determined, jesus knew that his own people will betray him,

introducing what the bible against like woman preaching in church,

YOUR IGNORANCE PREVENTS YOU FROM DIFFERENTIATING GOD INSPIRED WORDS THROUGH HIS PROPHET PAUL,AS 'NOT PAULS OWN DECISION ON WOMAN' BUT FROM 'INSPIRATION'
HOW DO WE KNOW THAT;
1 TIMOTHY 1:1

1[size=14pt] Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope,
[/size]



2 Timothy 3:16
New International Version (NIV)
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

2. The christains were not displaying the true image and picture of Jesus christ, so when the Jesus come back you, followers of jews, will never identify Him.

SO, THERE IS NOTHING AS FOLLOWERS OF JEWS AS YOUR IGNORANCE EXPOSE YOU, BUT CHRISTIANS AND APOSTLE PAUL ARE CHRIST FOLLOWERS BY COMMAND AS PROVED ABOVE!

Mind you, Jesus is a prophet of Islam!

JESUS CAN NEVER BE A PROPHET OF MURDERERS, WHO BELIEVED IN TAKING ONES LIFE WITHOUT REGARD

YOUR QUARAN SURPPORT MURDER, TRUE OR FALSE, THERE IS NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE THAT CHRISTIANS ARE URGED TO 'SLAY' OR 'KILL' A PERSON 'ALLEDGED TO BE AN IDOLATER' OR WHO DOESNT SHARE YOUR FAITH, BUT IN YOUR QUARAN, IN SURAH 9;5, IT SAYS....''slay the idolaters,besiege them,lay ambush for them''




read it yourself, that is the verse used by suicide bombers to justify their killings, so just shut up and cover your face with shame you and your wicked quaran.(no apology pls)

@joagbaje

YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE A FRAUDSTER,THINKING THAT THE BIBLE CAN BE TWISTED,
IF YOU CAN REMEMBER THE LAST TIME I ENGAGE YOU IN A PARTICULAR TREAD ON THIS ISSUE, HERE IS ONE OF YOUR RESPONSE ON 'LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD';

Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Joagbaje(m):


Will you nullify the word of God. Before the law there was Melchizedek order. When the law came ,there was levitical order for a period. Many high priest functioned under the order of levitical priest hood. Now that it has ended we are back to Melchizedek order In which Jesus function. that means the Order never ended. It has always been . The levitical was only an intrusion. This is the real order.

YOU CLAIMED THAT THE LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD 'GODS ARRANGEMENT OF PRIESTHOOD IS AN INTRUSION'
TRUE OR FALSE? YOUR FRAUD HAS REALLY REACHED A HIGHT NOW,AND YOU NEED TO BE BASHED IN EVERY CORNER YHE WAY YOU DIS REGARD GODS ARRANGEMENT.

YOU ARE AN OFFENDER BECAUSE YOU CHOOSE THAT PART OF THE INSTRUCTION OF TITHE TO THE ISREALTES THAT 'IF' THAT IS 'IN AN EVENT' WHERE ONE COULD NOT GIVE LIVESTOCK OR FOOD AS AN OFFERING, YOU CHOOSED TO BE A DEFAULTER PAYING A FINE, ITS A SHAME YOU!

He pointed out that for a dialogue to take place, it must be through the following elders namely: Dr. Shettima Ali Monguno, Former Head of State General Muhammadu Buhari, former Yobe State Governor, Bukar Abba Ibrahim, Ambassador Gaji Galtimari and Barr Aisha Alkali Wakil and her husband, Barr, Alkali Wakil, insisting that the dialogue must not take place in Nigeria but Saudi Arabia, as according to him, the government of Nigeria is not sincere for dialogue due to its betrayal in the past.

Abu Abdulazeez also said that the group has mandated five members who are to mediate on their behalf; they include himself (Abu Mohammed Abdulazeez), Abu Abbas, Sheikh Ibrahim Yusuf, Sheikh Sani Kontogora and Mamman Nur

Are these names christian names or muslims? Now some people will be telling us that 'they are not muslims' TWO SHEIKHS, ONE MUSLIM HEAD OF STATE (Abu Mohammed Abdulazeez), Abu Abbas, Sheikh Ibrahim Yusuf, Sheikh Sani Kontogora and Mamman Nur

LETS STOP DECEIVING OURSELVES, OUR MUSLIM BROTHERS CONSPIRED TO CONCEAL THE ACTIVITIES OF BH,ITS A SHAME ANYWAY.

@joagbaje
YOU CAN ONLY RUN, BUT YOU CANT HIDE,YOU TACTFULLY MISLEAD PEOPLE IN THE BOOK OF LUKE18:12 BELOW

Joagbaje:
Concerning other income ,Luke 18 [/b]is clear on this

Luke 18:12
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

They tithed from all possessions and income.

Luke 18:12.( Amp)
I fast twice a week and tithe on all my income. '

Luke 18:12 (message)
I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I gain.

Luke 18:12 ( GWT)
I fast twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my entire income. '

JOAGBAJE, YOU ARE A CASE, AND BEFORE I GIVE SOME STRONG ADVICE FOR YOU,[b]LET ME EXPOSE HOW YOU 'CHANGE THE TRUE MOTIVE OF JESUS' IN THIS LUKE 18:12,WE NEED TO START FROM VERSE 9-12,note that;

(a)JESUS USED 'A PARABLE'(so its not a real event,so the issue of 'income' here does not even arise,this is something that greediness could not even allow you to note)
(b)JESUS MAIN MOTIVE WAS TO EMPHASISE 'some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others'PHARISEE AND A TAX COLLECTOR
LETS READ NOW;

Luke 18:9-14
New King James Version (NKJV)


9 [size=14pt]Also He spoke this parable [/size]to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, [size=14pt]one a Pharisee[/size] and the other[size=14pt] a tax collector[/size]. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14[size=14pt] I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.[/size]”

UNFORTUNATELY FOR YOU JOAGBAJE, YOU ONLY PICK VS 12 ABOVE TO SUPPORT YOUR TITHING SCHEME,WHICH MEANS 'YOU ARE A PHARISEE DESCRIBED AS 'UNRIGHTEOUS' EVEN THOUGH THEY TITHE,THEY ARE STILL DESCRIBED AS UNRIGHTEOUS! [b]AND THE TAX COLLECTOR WHO DID NOT TITHE(because it was'nt mention) WAS DECLARED RIGHTEOUS[/b]IN VERSE 14,CAN YOU SEE THAT?

IF WE HAVE TO GO BY YOUR MISCHEVIOUS WAY OF COMMITTING JESUS TO A STATEMENT IN MATHEW 23:23 WHEN JESUS WAS ONLY EXPOSING THE PHARISEE'S HYPOCRISY 'IN CHERYPICKING A LAW AND PASSING OVER OR ABANDONING ACCOMPANYING PARTS OF SAME LAW DELIBERATELY' YOU MISCHEVIOUSLY QUOTED MATHEW 23:23 THE SAME REPORT THAT WAS RECORDED BY LUKE IN LUKE 11:42 WORD FOR WORD USING A BIBLE DESIGNED FOR PASTORS EXPECIALLY PENTECOSTAL PASTORS IN 1996,2007(NLT)new living translation. A SO-CALLED BIBLE THAT WAS NOT TRANSLATED FROM THE HEBREW GREEK MANUSCRIPT WHILE THE SACRED SCRIPTURES WERE ORIGINALLY WRITTEN,BUT WAS 'MODIFIED' TO SUIT THE TEACHINGS OF SOME THEOLOGIANS AND SOME PENTECOSTAL PASTORS WHO DISMISED THE TRUTH CONTAINED IN THE OLD TRANSLATIONS KING JAMES VERSION 1611(400 yrs of translation)AS BEING PARAPHRESED.
HOW DO I KNOW, IT WAS WRITTEN BOLDLY IN THE PREFACE OF(NLT new living translation)AND I QUOTE;

''Mark Taylor (president of Tyndale House) explains that one of the problems he encountered as publisher of the Living Bible is that "despite its popularity ... it never received wide acclaim by pastors and scholars. Too often it was dismissed as being 'just a paraphrase.'" (2) So apparently the claim that the New Living Translation is a "new translation" is designed to prevent the version from being viewed as a "revised paraphrase."

LETS EXAMINE THE FRAUD;

Luke 11:42/Mathew 23:23; (NLT)2007 New Living Translation

"But woe to you Pharisees! For though you are careful to tithe even the smallest part of your income, you completely forget about justice and the love of God. You should tithe, yes ,but you should not leave these other things undone.

''[size=14pt]You should tithe, yes[/size]'' IS A CRIMINAL ADDITION TO THIS VERSE AS THERE IS NO OTHER OLDER TRANSLATIONS THAT RENDERS OR ADD SUCH PHRASE ''You should tithe, yes''TO ITS TRANSLATION.IT WAS AN ACT OF FRAUD BY 'DISTORTING THE WORD OF GOD'

compare to the oldest bible translated directly from greek manuscript in 1611,
Luke 11:42
(KJV)king james version(1611)

But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: .:

The emphasis here is[b]''and pass over judgment and the love of God''[/b]
How do we know that?,
''these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone''.

in nutshell, jesus was cursing the pharisees that 'if they can be that carefull to tithe even the smallest of their foods, it should have been done together without leaving the accompanying parts of the law which are 'judgment and the love of God' separately.

This can be better understood by reading[b] james 2:10,[/b]
''For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, [size=14pt]he is guilty of all[/size]''

this is the point jesus was trying to point out, that if you must observe the law, 'you must observe all'

AND WHY DID JOAGBAJE CHOOSE TO USING MISLEADING INTERPRETATIONS OF RECENT TIMES, THE ANSWER IN NOT FAR FETCHED, IN THE BOOK OF 2 TIMOTHY 4:3;
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;

AND FINALLY,AS TO WHY JESUS DID NOT NECCESARILY STOP 'AN EXISTING LAW ON TITHE' BINDING ON ONLY JEWS WHICH JESUS HIMSELF MET,BUT BECAUSE HIS COMING WILL NOT ONLY PUT AN END TO 'TITHING DEMANDED BY LAW' BUT THE WHOLE ENTIRE 'BINDING WRITTEN LAW' IS ABOUT TO END,

BUT THEN, WHY DO WE HAVE LAW IN THE FIRST PLACE,TITHING INCLUSIVE? THE ANSWER NOT FAR FETCHED;

Galatians 3:19,20.

19 Why, Then, Was The Law Given At All? It Was Added Because Of Transgressions Until The Seed To Whom The Promise Referred Had Come. The Law Was Given Through Angels And Entrusted To A Mediator. 20 A Mediator, However, Implies More Than One Party; But God Is One.

AND MORE TO THAT,[size=14pt]OUR JUSTIFICATION IS NOT THROUGH LAW, BUT BY FAITH[/size];VS 23,24


23 Before The Coming Of This Faith, We Were Held In Custody Under The Law, Locked Up Until The Faith That Was To Come Would Be Revealed.

24 So The Law Was Our Guardian Until Christ Came That We Might Be Justified By Faith.

AND TO NAIL THE HEAD, THE WHOLE ENTIRE 'BINDING WRITTEN LAW'(THAT ALSO INCLUDES TITHES IN ALL ITS ENTIRETY) AS A CODE ENDED WITH THE DEATH OF CHRIST;

Colossians 2:14,

14 Having Wiped Out The Handwriting Of Requirements That Was Against Us, Which Was Contrary To Us. And He Has Taken It Out Of The Way, Having Nailed It To The Cross.

[/b]AND [b]THE UNDISPUTED FACT THAT JESUS DID NOT INSTRUCTS HIS DISCIPLES AND CHRISTIANS TO TITHE, SHED MORE LIGHT ON THE FACT THAT TITHE WILL END 'ON THE CROSS'.NEITHER PAUL AND ALL OTHER APOSTLES TEACH TITHE TO CHRISTIANS,

GOD IS 'NOT OF CONFUSION' NEVER. JOAGBAJE, YOU CAN RUN,BUT YOU CAN NEVER HIDE!

Guys,insults will do nothing to this case,why? our present gov'nt is bound by the 1999 constitution,put together by the military so as to shield thierself from prosecution, and what they have succeeded in doing was to leave OUR CONSTITUTION POROUS so as to accomodate delays in the processes, UNLESS A MILITARY REGIME (which we dont pray for again)is the only system that can adress our problem as fast as we want, or we remain patient untill there is a full scale AMENDMENT,
try and reason with this quote;

Meanwhile, the Attorney-General of the Federation and Minister of Justice, Mohammed Adoke, has urged the National Assembly to speed up the amendment of the Anti-Terrorism Law pending before it.

Adoke, in an address he delivered at the valedictory court session held in honour of retired Supreme Court Justice, Olufunlola Adekeye, in Abuja on Wednesday, said speedy conclusion of work on the law would reposition the judiciary in the fight against terrorism.

Explaining that the weakness of the former law necessitated the ongoing amendment, he said, “justice can only be done to terrorists and their financiers if penalties commensurate with their offences are put in place,"

as it is now,our constitution grants immunity to serving members of the NA,Gov'nors and so on in an event of being indicted. its a pity,its not jonathans fault, he met the situation, and dont expect him to be a magician overnight, critics of Gej should look into their own problem rather that using their unguarded mouth to send Nigeria back to suare one...Military!

Zikky,

where have you been since, nice to see you again!

You no see anything talk. Se you go post the complete bible anytime you want to quote, as quoting a verse or two amounts to cutting off the word of God

As a Pharisee you should position yourself for more woes that's all you get instead of blessings.

joagbaje will quote from New living translation NLT (2007)for you now, by Kenneth taylor specially designed for pastors by kenneth taylor (in his preface) to suit pastors who branded the earlier Living bible and king james version (1611) unsuitable.

Meanwhile, the FA has launched an investigation into the case of foul language used by Mr. Clattenburg on Mikel and Mata.
I hope they prove me wrong by being sincere enough to punish Clattenburg if found guilty.
Unfortunately, all those who may give evidence at a hearing (apart from Mikel and Mata) are his fellow officials. I think they will naturally try to cover-up for Clattenburg

UNFORTUNATELY IT WAS'NT RECORDED,SO CHELSEA NEED TO PRODUCE A PROOF BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT AGAINST A REFF, AND I THINK CHELSEA WILL BE THOUGHT A LESSON OF THEIR LIFE,MAKING A REFF AN ACCUSE IN A CASE IS LAUGHABLE,FAILURE TO GET A PROOF LEAVE THE REFF WITH NO OPTION THAN TO DEMAND AN APOLOGY FROM THE PLAYERS,WHICH IN TURN WILL RESULT IN MATCH BANS AND FINES,BECAUSE AS IT IS NOW,IT WASNT RECORDED,NOBODY HEARS WHAT CHELSEA ALLEDGES,AND WHY DOES IT TAKE TIME FOR THEM TO MEDITATE TO HANG THE REFF WITH A BAD NAME, MAKING THEIR CASE WORSE!THEIR FANS ARE FOUND OF SENDING DEATH THREATS MAILS TO REFFS,THEREBY INTIMIDATING REFFS IN THEIR GAME,A GIMMIC THEY WANT TO IMPOSE TO WIN GAMES, I DEY LAUGH O!

I think it will be a waste of time discussing chelsea issues as they continue to cry like babies,and instead of taking correction they swith to insults and curse you like an agbero loaded with Alomo,Whiskey and Shepe-Chelsea-Gin! as if all the touts in the Nigerian cities are chelsea fans.

But then let me just give some hints why chelsea found theirself in these constant mess,
1, Most of the fans are either illiterate(just watching f/ball only on the screen,or newspapers or mouth to mouth but dont care to know the rules).

2,Chelseafc play Aethestic football(nicknamed karate football) invented into football by an italian 'herera' back in the days,this kind of negative football formation(if you miss the ball dont-ever miss the leg-style is branded 'catenatio'.although recently AVB tried to change it into more attacking side,what the owner abramovic wanted, but 'the old players of chelsea planned a coup de'tat to overthrow AVB by restating inexperieced DM',it pays for a short and brif period of time by winning a champions league cup by luck and undeserved,(ungratefull fans as they are will never agree),but as they could not defend a community shield afterwards,and to cap it all, chelsea lost to an infamous spanish side supercup Atletico madrid 4-1 a game that will make you wonder if chelsea deserved the champions league cup. The advantage of their negative football is that you conceeds 'fewer goals' by sitting dip, and work-less but score your opponent on quick-counter or on set pieces.Disadvantage of it is that you conceeds higher fouls,and more cards,..and this is where the point lies, if a team fouls more often than the other,it frustrates the reff and the reff are given the 'exlusive right,unchallenged right to take action'on any player of a team that willfully fouls so as to 'reduce the tension of the game'.
in the Chelsea-Man-utd game, if chelsea fans are fair, we saw how many times (3 times)that chelsea player handled the ball,and there was no card issued, we saw a two footed tackle on RVP,no card issued, we saw ramires bringing down 'willfully' a player after dribbling past him, and many more,
but chelsea persistence in that willfull fouls 'provoked the reff like any other reff' and even di-mateo aknowledged that it was a deserved-red!
(can anyone check the match analysis and tell us which team is having 'most foul committed' definately its chelsea with 14 fouls. even the game they played arsenal they are leading in most foul commited, against barca,they are twice the fouls commited,they quickly brand barca as divers because like hitler once said in his book that 'if you practice wrong or evil persistently without let-up,it will be embraced as the right thing and it will gain popularity'.
the second yellow of torres,chelsea fans were complaining and even swearing on torres,so why crying while he was red crded? i think torres need to watch the video again, and see that he would have been sent off earlier when he raise his-stud high facing an opponent's chest, what does the reff rule rule says, ...that any player that endangers the 'safety and weelfare of an opponent' should be 'dismissed' with a red card, the only consideration to be considered is 'the speed of both players involved'. but then escaping that,maybe an assistant reff has drawn the main reff's attention to that stud incidence,and this time around torres with a 'minimal contact' after staying on the other feet balanced 'he decided to go down in 'simulation' also guilty of faking injury by rolling over and over again,the reff had no option than to award another yellow culminating in red.

As for chicharito's goal, well it was a tight one and debatable but sorry,football result is decided in seconds,so no room for alteration.

Chelsea fans are hypocritical,when it comes to complaining, why do i say so,
when Mourinho's inter Milan beat chelsea in stanford bridge,and in san-siro Drogba had a red card and solomon kalou had a clear penalty claim against mourinho, but no chelsea fan cry foul!
the same thing applies to mourinho, last season his madrid beat Atletico(falcao inclusive) on what grounds, Atletico were awarded 2 red cards, down to ten men, as if that is not enough 2 penalties converted by cristiano ronaldo were another salt added to atletico wounds, but nobody is accusing the reff or and the case is not even making a headline, so as long as chelsea continue to play the negative football,they are bound to be subject to bashing and reduced to crybabies, im a good football lover, no violence in football supporter,football free of thugery gangsterism if possible without a yellow card can be achieved, so that injuries leg-breaking that shortens a players carrer can be reduced to a bearest minimum.
Note pls, you dont need to support my opinions,i have no apologies to any chelsea fans,but if you have taken shepe-chelsea, or Alomo you are free to insult, oya nowwwwwwwww.........

if you expect joagbaje to come out with logical explanations, its not going to happen, unfortunately he and his colleagues knew their preys! but im waiting for his response!

@joeagbaje,
It is very unfortunate that after an extensive debate on this tithing issue on the other tread of which the truth about tithing was exposed,and it was discovered and put to your face that tithing as you put it is a fraud! your suporters and theologians 'wordtalk' 'snowwy' and 'garyarnold' opinions on these issue were weighed and compared, and it was discovered that each of you 'tithe advocates' had different views on how you arrived at that conclusion,that is you agreed that yes,tithing is still required but comparing your points,it differs from each other,for example,your pastor Oyakhilome says that malachi 3:10 apply directly to christians,but having exposed the meaning that malachi as the last book of old testament is refering to 'the levi' and that how would 'my storehouse' refers to 'the church' when the storehouse refered to in that book of malachi is in the temple and despite the availability of cash 'denarii or shekels' at that time,God was insisting to the isrealites in that book of malachi to 'Bring food/meat into my storehouse'....something that you guys turned to be 'cash in my house',in you own case you differ from your pastor Oyakhilome on this by extending your claim outside the 'law covenant' to pre-law Abraham's one off tribute offering, but remember what jesus said in Mathew 12:25....“Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.

Instead of teaching the truth as found in the bible, you guys are exploiting some irregularities of some Bible translators, knowing fully well that since the bible originally was in hebrew/greek manuscript,you will simply ignore the oldest translations like king james version (1611) over 400 yrs translation, but rather, you preffered the newest bible editions translated not from Greek or Hebrew,but translated from 'The living Bible'(1971). you simply quoted luke 11:42 (from NLT)new living translation (1996,2007) translations that was done mostly by theologians some few years ago to suit their own 'lust' and they could not hide their intention of promoting extorting through tithes,(i will expound on that later) these NLT Author of the modernised bible that you used Kenneth Taylor and his co NLT authors says this below in their preface of the bible;

''Mark Taylor (president of Tyndale House) explains that one of the problems he encountered as publisher of the Living Bible is that "despite its popularity ... it never received wide acclaim by pastors and scholars. Too often it was dismissed as being 'just a paraphrase.'" (2) So apparently the claim that the New Living Translation is a "new translation" is designed to prevent the version from being viewed as a "revised paraphrase."
Now lets see your ''New Living Translation'' a modernised bible 'so to say' below;

Luke 11:42 (NLT)2007 New Living Translation

"But woe to you Pharisees! For though you are careful to tithe even the smallest part of your income, you completely forget about justice and the love of God. You should tithe, yes ,but you should not leave these other things undone.

compare to the oldest bible translated directly from greek manuscript in 1611,
Luke 11:42
(KJV)king james version(1611)

But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs,[size=14pt] and pass over judgment and the love of God: [/size].:

The emphasis here is[b]''and pass over judgment and the love of God''[/b]
How do we know that?,
''these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone''.

in nutshell, jesus was cursing the pharisees that 'if they can be that carefull to tithe even the smallest of their foods, it should have been done together without leaving the accompanying parts of the law which are 'judgment and the love of God' separately.

This can be better understood by reading james 2:10,
''[size=14pt]For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point[/size], he is guilty of all''

this is the point jesus was trying to point out, that if you must observe the law, 'you must observe all'

Galatians 3:10
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

Jesus Did Not Neccesarily Stop 'An Existing Law On Tithe' Binding On Only Jews Which Jesus Himself Met,But Because His Coming Will Not Only Put An End To 'Tithing Demanded By Law' But The Whole Entire 'Binding Written Law' Is About To End,

But Then, Why Do We Have Law In The First Place? The Answer Not Far Fetched;

Galatians 3:19,20.

19 Why, Then, Was The Law Given At All? It Was Added Because Of Transgressions Until The Seed To Whom The Promise Referred Had Come. The Law Was Given Through Angels And Entrusted To A Mediator. 20 A Mediator, However, Implies More Than One Party; But God Is One.

And More To That,Our Justification Is Not Through Law, But By Faith;Vs 23,24


23 Before The Coming Of This Faith, We Were Held In Custody Under The Law, Locked Up Until The Faith That Was To Come Would Be Revealed.

24 So The Law Was Our Guardian Until Christ Came That We Might Be Justified By Faith.

And To Nail The Head, The Whole Entire 'Binding Written Law'(That Also Includes Tithes In All Its Entirety) As A Code Ended With The Death Of Christ;

Colossians 2:14,

14 Having Wiped Out The Handwriting Of Requirements That Was Against Us, Which Was Contrary To Us. And He Has Taken It Out Of The Way, Having Nailed It To The Cross.

[size=14pt]And The Undisputed Fact That Jesus Did Not Instructs His Disciples And Christians To Tithe, Shed More Light On The Fact That Tithe Will End 'On The Cross'.Neither Paul And All Other Apostles Teach Tithe To Christians,

God Is 'Not Of Confusion' Never.[/size]

This building is the home of a shrine named subulade.

in these modern world,you still keep such shrines,its a shame.

@Rossikk,

Joagbaje:
God himself answers to the name of Jesus. He didn't invest power in the name Jehovah ,he invested power in the name Jesus.

reply from;Rossikk;

My goodness you're lost.

You dont need to blame joeagbaje for using the word 'invested'

if you go through his posts on NL, he is a tithe preacher! seed sower preacher!i.e... sow a 'car' seed in his church,or better put,'invest in sowing of seeds';firstfruit seed offering ,different from the normal offering, tithe every increase in your income,tithe gifts etc...and you are expected to be rewarded in tripple,just try him, so invest,invest,invest!
so why would God not invest in jesus to pull crowds? jesus is suppose to be a multi-billionare!.

lets see OLAADEGBU'S pope conspiracy with hitler that makes catholics soldiers kill each other;

No explanation can excuse the fact that Jesus is different and less than his Father.....
phi2:6

Phil 2:6 Who,G3739 beingG5225 inG1722 the formG3444 of God,G2316 thought itG2233 notG3756 robberyG725 to beG1511 equalG2470 with God:G2316


G3444

μορφή

morphē

mor-fay'


shape ; figuratively nature: - form.


greek words here;[size=14pt]form here means 'figurative nature' [/size]and does not mean Gods real form okay?

@Macdaddy01

how do you ask question like this as if you dont know your country well?, first james ibori won his case here in Niger precisely in Asaba high court,but what happen where there is law in UK? lets leave that, in our sports, are we being represented by those who merit our status or those who knows how to play the politics? ask those who spend 2.2 billion on unmerited athletes and won no medals in the olympics,but then they won some ist prize here in Niger but could not in the olympics,so thats the country you are, say the truth and be banned, but just say popular things that they want to hear ooooh?they would shout 'you are the best',so, congrats joe-baba. i de hail!!!

@Ihedinobi
YOU RE WELCOME BACK AFTER GREASING OLAADEGBU'S ELBOWS,HE DISAPPEARED FIAAAM!.
YOUR POSTS BELOW;

I'm actually bothering because of you, Ubenedictus. It is no small matter to soil sacred things and continuing in this debate amounts to that. Is Jesus Christ God? Of course He is.

I HAVE ALREADY WARNED HIM AS WELL THAT ON PAGE (11) OF THIS TREAD,HE LOST THE ARGUMENT OUTRIGHTLY,AND AS A TYPICAL NIGERIAN,OMO-NNA FOR THAT THAT MATTER,..MBA-NUUU,I NO GO GREE,.
AND HE JUST GOT HIMSELF MORE AND MORE ROPED IN A CORNER WHERE NO SCRIPTURE SUPPORTS HIS FORMULATION.
ANYWAY,YOU HAVE ADMITTED HERE THAT 'THE TRINITY CONCEPT'IS UNDEFENDED IN THE BIBLE,WHICH AMOUNTS TO CHRISTIANS CONSTITUTION,SO WHY DO MANY STILL IMPOSE THAT HERESY FOR GODS SAKE IN THIS MODERN WORLD?. I AM PERSONALLY THANKING WILLIAMS TYNDALE FOR DYING FOR A COURSE,THAT IS MAKING SURE THAT HE TRANSLATES THE BIBLE TO EXPOSE THIS HERESY,IM MOVED WITH PITY WHEN I SAW THE HORROR OF BURNING HIM WITH 'A HOLY BIBLE' SO AS TO HIDE THE TRUTH,BUT CENTURIES LATER,THE TRUTH CONTINUE TO FRUSTRATE THE TRINITARIANS AND THEY HAVE NO SHAME OR ANSWER THAN TO RESUME TO NORMAL THING...INSULT.

ihedinobi.quote..
I made a clear write-up stating what the Trinity is and why it is true and undefended in the Bible.

THEN HEAR WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS;
(Revelation 22:18,19).
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book; if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away that person's share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book
SO WHEN YOU CLEARLY ADDED TO THE SACRED SCRIPTURES NOW, WHO DO YOU BLAME?

Is Jesus Christ God? Of course He is. What is the biggest argument for it? We are saved and children of God. If there is any other thing that is the Gospel, I do not recognize it and neither does the Bible.

YOU SEE HOW YOU CONTRADICT YOURSELF, FROM 'UNDEFENDED BY THE BIBLE' TO 'NEITHER DO BIBLE RECOGNISE REJECTING WHAT IS NOT CONTAINED IN THE BIBLE' THERE IS NO WAY YOUR OPINION CAN EVER BE EQUATED TO MATCH THE BIBLE.

[b]I'm sorry that I will not post the link here because I'm done with all that foolishness. [/b]Anyway, nobody bothered to dissect my write-up and pick it apart logically. All I got was derision and cheap attacks.

IMHAPPY THAT YOU KNEW THAT IT IS FOOLISHNESS TO FORCE YOUR PERSONAL OPINIONS ON OTHERS LIKE 72VIRGIN MYTHS OF ISLAMIST EXTREEMISTS,PEOPLE HERE ARE MORE INFORMED THAN YOURSELF,IBEG HIDE AM WITH YOU OO,NO TALK SAY I NO TALK AM O,ENH-HEEEN!.

The Bible says that we will know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error or falsehood by testing them as to how they hold Jesus Christ.

WHERE EXACTLY DOES THE BIBLE SAYS THAT?

What's the big deal with accepting that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh? It's just Who He is and how He came that bounded that Scripture.

NO BIG DEAL BRO, BUT A HERESY THAT HE IS THE SAME PERSON AS THE ALMIGHTY GOD,WHEN HE SAID BY HIMSELF THAT 'MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I'. ,SHIKENAAN!

I left the questions alone on my thread and simply asked how we are saved by Jesus's Death if He was not God. The answers (only two) were very poor, very deficient. I didn't bother to dissect them to avoid another firestorm.

VERY SIMPLE, HE SENT HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON JESUS CHRIST TO DIE FOR OUR SIN,MATHEW 3:17
(And a voice from heaven said, [size=14pt]"This is my Son, whom I love;[/size] with him I am well pleased."SO GOD HIMSELF DECLARED WITH A LOUD VOICE FROM HEAVEN SPEAKING LOUDLY DURING JESUS BAPTISM BY JOHN,THAT JESUS WAS HIS SON,HE NEVER SAID ANYTHING THAT HE 'GOD ALMIGHTY' IS THE ONE BEING BAPTISED BY JOHN,BUT RATHER ''HIS SON WHOM HE LOVED''. SO IT WAS GODS SON THAT GOD SENT TO DIE FOR OUR SIN AS A PROPRIEATORY SACRIFICE TO ATTONE FOR OUR SIN,SINCE EVEN JESUS DECLARED THAT ONLY GOD ALMIGHTY DESERVES OUR WORSHIP AND SO THROUGH THE OFFICE OF CHRIST,OUR REQUEST ARE CHANNELLED TO GOD,HE SERVES LIKE GODS SECRETARY IN THIS RESPECT,OKAY? SO ITS A CHEAP QUESTION BRO.

Barristers, I do not mean to insult you or show you up for a fool. I have seen a lot of people like you. Filled with intellectual superiority and "mastery" of the Scriptures. You take for granted that you know the truth and nobody else does unless they are of your organization.

IM NEVER AFFECTED EVEN IF YOU DO INSULT,BUT I WILL RATHER SHOW YOU MATURITY OF NEVER RETURNING IT BACK BUT HOLD EVER FIRM TO EXPOSING FALSE TEACHINGS!
I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BY MY ORGANISATION HERE,IM ONLY RESPONSIBLE FOR MY STATEMENTS ONLY,OKAY?

that Jesus is God is without question.

YES,HE SHARE A TITLE LIKE GOD,LORD,..ETC WITH HIS FATHER,AND ONLY TO AN EXTENT THAT HE IS CALLED MIGHTY GOD, BUT NEVER CALLED ALMIGHTY GOD,WHICH YOU CANNOT REFUSE,AND WHICH MEANS HE IS NOT THE SAME WITH HIS FATHER THE ALMIGHTY, SIMPLE.
SO,YOU HAVE TO PROVE IT! BUT CALLING NAMES,OR INSULTS DOES NOT HELP YOU BUT RATHER A SIGN OF WEAKNESS OFTEN DISPLAYS WHILE BEING QUESTIONED TO PROVE,SORRY EHN,IM USED TO THAT.
SORRY.

@Myjoe

do you prefer I address those points before you proceed?

i dont think that we have a bargain to that effect!

catholics worship images of Mary sorrounded by angels

@Myjoe
okay lets leave some law technicalties out for now,
and
back to the 'boy' that i earlier talked about;
your quote below;

For example, ask the boy to explain Luke 21:32. That Bible verse contains a prophecy that clearly failed to come to pass - that those hearing Jesus would not all die before things were rounded up.

purely wrong and hasty assumption mr,who told you that the prophecy failed? thats serious,so jesus prophesy 'too a failed prophecy'? then if you can beef jesus then who else that you cant? note that the prophecy 'must come to pass' because its a futuristic prophecy,just like jonah's issue.so if you are are around during jonahs day when he declare in precise 'just in 40 days' the lords will bring ruin to nineveh but 40 days lapsed and nothing happens, note that there wasnt any condition attached to 'what could delay the event', im sure jonah might receive some bashing and strong criticism from you, but although the generation that was decleared to be ruined 'in 40 days plus jonah himself died'.

as he slashes and adds beginnings and middles and ends to come up with an explanation - just the way it was fed to him. Of course, if you asked him in 1915 you would get an explanation different from the one he gave you in 1890. He would give you entirely different interpretations in 1923, in the 1960's, the 1970’s, the 1980's, the 1990's and in 2012 - for the same Luke verse.

and another prophet 'nahum' also came after jonah with same prophecy and he didnt witness it in his lifetime, Myjoe would have seen another magician here,isnt it? but then with patient,what happened; not untill later time in the future when niniveh felled as prophysied to such extent that its location never experienced any inhabitants called nineveh again.dont seperate this facts above pls,its a fact recorded.

you can see that your sticking to the literal understanding of the verses(luke 21;32)phylosophically is an evidence of your stand on the issue(i will treat what i mean later, marked [1#]),an unyielding stand on issues couple with impatient at time may defines your approach to issues raised here on the forum,i can see that your strategy is to water down any form of 'spirituality'because you have made up your mind resolutely! ,and then you use the opportunity to raise further questions from answers supplied to you 'not because you want to reason with it,but to arm you with further grounds to raise questions leading the topic nowhere so as to weather down your opponents, im used to those strategy,
but...at this point,

before i neccesarilly go into details concerning this luke 21:32,
will you be honest to the explanation? even if the boy gave it,or it will still turn to a self branded 'magic'?

But your fourteen year old will go into pure magic as he slashes and adds beginnings and middles and ends to come up with an explanation - just the way it was fed to him.

its glarring that you have made up your mind in anticipation of expecting what you termed as 'pure magic'.

If you ask a random Catholic or Pentecostal the same question[b] he is likely to tell you he does not know what to make of the verse but that that does not affect his faith in the message of Jesus Christ[/b].

yes, because many who give that kind of answer do not even know or make effort to know 'why' they serve God, or why they are here on earth in the first place and not heaven if God really wants humans to join him in the heaven not neccesarilly 'through purgatory to heaven'.
and those that make reasonable effort to reach out in seach of the answer is 'not honest' in your own opinion,
this is what i mean, ...during church service, while the talk is on on the pulpit, a 'honest person' will simple be on his/her BB (blackbberry)pinging and engaging others for more than the 2/3 of the total hours spent in the church that is supposed to be devoted to God, but then he/she is honest because at least he 'own up' to insincerity, can you see that? strange honesty indeed!!!.
and that decribe the derogatory 'honesty' below;

Does a Witness express this sort of honesty or does he simply buy wholesale what is dished out?

so going by your usual brand tagged 'wholesales' dished out, i dont think jws need such derogatory honesty, are you clear now? or another strategy?

Just raise a question that has not been practised on at the meetings and see how that fourteen year old will perform. Ask him how Daniel's Nebuchadnezzer got all that gold to build an image.

where do get the imformations about 'all' the Gold nebuchadnezzer used,im sure that you cant get that, and so he doesnt neccessarily need that.

at this point, you cant bear it anymore but you decided to join me with jehovahs witnesses even when there is nowhere you can point to that that assertion, anyway im not having problem with that,and im not also denying to fully join,and you know what, they are the only organisation that is most persecuted and that alone draws me to make my extensive reseach on their activities,but must you join me sarcastically in such a description below;

You know that major news items are sometimes discussed at your services with members coached on how to respond. There is no church around that can hope to match the training programmes the Witnesses take their people through in furtherance of the aggressive effort to recruit as many people as possible.

yes mathew 24:14....the good news must be preached.......as a witness to all nation.

Please show from the Bible that every Christian was forbidden from political participation in the first century. I would like to learn this.

im not expecting you to learn in this reply, but to see where true christians 'doing the will of God' and not 'all christians calling 'lord' 'lord' (can you see the difference) choose to follow;
see it here;
john 17:16....they are no part of the world, just as i am no part of the world...jesus draws a parrallel here,
john 6:15....jesus avoid being made 'a king'.(politics),
john 18:16....jesus echoed again 'why he is no part of the world'
james 4;4,....friendship with the world constitutes enmity with God.

jesus tells the pharisees who refuse to recognise jesus as Gods son that;
Mathew 21:43... “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

Galatians 5:17,19-21.
17[b] For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh[/b]. They are in conflict with each other, [size=18pt]so that you are not to do whatever you want.[/size]

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft;[size=14pt] hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy;[/size] drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that [size=14pt]those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
[/size]
paul still emphasises 'Gods kingdom in perspective'and warned against acts that constitutes 'acts of flesh' above with often result in politics, true christians descern this as the reason why jesus reject being king but rather declare 'a better rulership' not just because he wouldnt have time.

as to 'political participation', i have already answered that one earlier,but for more emphasis sake, see i here again;

'political involvement/participation is concern following an agreed terms that universally agreed upon,using several dictionaries,three good points stands out or all the points covered in the various definations were prunned down to (3)three, eligible to 'confirm' someone to be declared 'involved' in 'political involvement namely;

1) People can get involved in a public arena to advertise and communicate demands to anyone willing to listen. Example: joining a demonstration.
2) People may target policy-makers in legislatures or the executive branch as addresses of their communications. Example: signing a petition.
3) People may get involved in the selection process of those who aspire to legislative or executive office. Examples: voting for a party or running for office.and in all these three above, Jws choose not to get involved.

Again, i will treat this one with the same approach used for sifting grain from chaff in the issue you raised about all christian participate in politics,below

What does submission to authority mean?

You deliberately omit 'their' from ''submission to their Authority'' rendering it this way 'submission to authority mean''?

And you also came with that strategy of 'openings statements up with questions' so as to be armed with answers-used-as-tools provided to water down the real focus of the point. (i will expound on that later, marked [2#])

1 Peter 2:13-17
(NASB)
13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, 14 or to governors as sent [a]by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right. 15 For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men. 16 [b]Act as free men, and [c]do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God. 17 Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the [d]king.

So you are also to submit to governors, not only the leaders of your church. Does this mean a Christian is to go against his conscience on the orders of his governor? Which takes precedence - obedience to your God-given conscience or submission to the governor? Which takes precedence - obedience to your God-given conscience or submission to your church leader?

easy..easy Mr, dont steer us from the real direction,there are holes in this all your assumpsions
here,and i think that i have warned about forcing concucted phrases on my statement such as those above,'your God given concience' forced ahead of my replies so as to divert from the original point.

why this particular verse (heb 17 above)cannot include those that you have pasted above is but very specific to whose authority is being discussed in the context;

Hebrew 13:17-19

17 Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.

Just after verse 17,the persons reffered to as the leaders that 'confidence,and submissions to their authority' was unveiled in the next verse 18;

18 Pray for us. We are sure that we have a clear conscience and desire to live honorably in every way.

why did paul stressed having good concience,not because he has assume the 'centre brain brand' that you concucted to divert, but because their decisions in directing Gods people ''[size=14pt]We are sure that we have a clear conscience and desire to live honorably in every way[/size]''.

also see another point why your points below wont even fit in in the first place but meant for diversion

So you are also to submit to governors, not only the leaders of your church. Does this mean a Christian is to go against his conscience on the orders of his governor? Which takes precedence - obedience to your God-given conscience or submission to the governor? Which takes precedence - obedience to your God-given conscience or submission to your church leader?

paul was even writing from the prison, shikenaah!!! see below;

[size=14pt]19 I particularly urge you to pray so that I may be restored to you soon.


22 Brothers and sisters, I urge you to bear with my word of exhortation, for in fact I have written to you quite briefly.

23 I want you to know that our brother Timothy has been released. If he arrives soon, I will come with him to see you.[/size]
another good news of good triuph over evil,timothy was released, Timothy was not swallowed by evil!!

24 Greet all your leaders and all the Lord’s people. Those from Italy send you their greetings.

25 Grace be with you all.

this is just a clear manifestation of working in harmony with Gods spirit,you feel that you can also quote the bible,but you people read without meditation, and you could have avioded this error had it been that you are led by the spirit, moses and aron dropped their sticks and it turned to snake,the pharaohs sorcerers too did same,but moses/Aron snake swallowed the sorcerrers's snake,it applies here,you see that, 3 gbosas!!!

1 Cor 7:19-23
(NASB)
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God. 20 Each man must remain in that [a]condition in which he was called.

21 Were you called while a slave? [b]Do not worry about it; but if you are able also to become free, rather [c]do that. 22 For he who was called in the Lord while a slave, is the Lord’s freedman; likewise he who was called while free, is Christ’s slave. 23 You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men.

[size=14pt]Reconcile this with the poor woman who was made to leave her husband, then explain how she has not been deprived of her freedom to follow her conscience in line with this verse[/size].

branding the woman here poor does not take anything from her,the same way if not mere than that she will label you poor-boy that is supposed to be serving God jehovah,oooooooooooo!

and on the circumcission issue, yes it wasnt required again to become sons of God,since the door has been opened to the gentiles now through faith and not throught the mandatory circumcission circumcision of both the jewand non jews,yes it is no more only jew affair, but our reconcilliation to God is through faith in christ as our 'center brain' sorry as our mediator,but cant we challenge that why cant we approach God directly without christ?

1 Peter 2:16-19
(NASB)
16 Act as free men, and [a]do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God. 17 Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.

Christians are to act as free men and flee from only that which is evil.

you are not specific?

Colossians 2:16-19
(NIV)
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. [b]18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

In eating or drinking, who do you follow? Your conscience or those who insist in burdening you with their own details? Should Christians create burdens for themselves or try to follow Jesus who said his yoke is light? Should they allow anyone to rule their religious lives or cherish the freedom procured for them by Jesus Christ?

Another seeming diversion here, thats not what is being stressed here,because 'judge' above is not same as what you termed as 'burdening',
very interesting quote,
Its not difficult to know where the emphasis lie, surely it lies on verses 18-19 above, why do i say so.

18 [size=14pt]Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. [/size]19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

who ''18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. ''

jws dont worship angels catholics do,

jws direct their worship to jehovah God and not angels

i will be right back pls,

is rhymz there?

waiting for your response please.

@Emmatok

You, must be a young Christian, didn't read that christians are not to argue with people of vain reasoning?
You do not seems to know LOGICBOY01, your argument would not convince him, but rather makes you look foolish.
Be wise and discerning.

Hmn, yes im young in the christian only that i have been a christian now for almost 4 decades and still happy to continue.

As you can see my replies were directed to some thoughtfull comments on the forum,
i dont see things the way you think,because others are gaining from these,its not about logicboy,he is just only part of the forum,but the interest of others is far more than just one person, ive not engage him although i read his comments,but im only being neutral to anybody until one really shows his color,and i can handle that in different ways,or tottaly ignoring comments without direction.

[b]Its not a surprise anyway,
this is not 'touch not my annoited' or thou shall not judge, he actually briefed the church by himself.thats enough evidence.

But what is more of concern is that is he really qualified to be an oveerseer (Bishop,pastor,Deacon)?
lets aknowledge these first,below;

Galatians 6:7-9
New King James Version (NKJV)
7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for[size=14pt] whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.[/size] 9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart.

Do people really knew that the position of AN OVERSEER;(Bishop,pastor,Deacon) is not automatic?

how do i mean?
there are christian rules that demands that 'one gunning for the position' must be tested first to meet some strict requirements, read below;

now lets see how early christians operate during the apostles,

overseers are appointed by team of apostles and older men, there is no mention of women,and i challenge anybody to show bible account that says anything as deaconess leading the church,...nowhere,
lets see the requirements below,

1 Timothy 3 :1-13;
New King James Version

Qualifications of Overseers

1, This is a faithful saying: [size=14pt]If a man desires the position of a bishop[/size],[a] he desires a good work. [size=14pt]2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;[/size] 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,[b] but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; [size=16pt]4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?)[/size]; 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Qualifications of Deacons

8 Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, 9 holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. [size=18pt]10 But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless.[/size] 11 Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

emphasis on verses 4 and 10 below;pls read it from your own bible first before you comment,;


''4, one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?)''

10,But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless

honestly, if these above qualities were tested by teams of qualified men independently like the apostles,it is avoidable and will not put Gods name to shame, read further;vs 7,


''7 Moreover he must [size=16pt]have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach[/size] and the snare of the devil''.

verse 7 allows criticm from 'those outside the church' or non members testimony too as a fact.

now, how many people today really read these and meditate,why it is important is that if you must die for a faith,are you sure that you are doing it 'the way and standards set out in the bible'? or you worship 'papa' 'daddy' or'mummy' instead of God? replacing Gods word with prosperity?

remember that Adam was 'not deceived',you have all the time now to decide serving the true God,NOW.

thanks[/b]

@Theblessed,

[b] Mankind8
your quotes below,raise some Controversial issues concerning adherence to the scriptures;(bolded)

If you understand it at all, then, you'd know that -[size=14pt] that was Paul's INSTRUCTION AND THOUGHTS - his order to the Church in Ephesus - God did not order that[/size] (Timothy Chpt. 2 v. 9 - 15)
[size=14pt]you personalise these scriptures as opinions of paul acting outside God's instruction,and limited to the ephesus.
[/size]
okay,below Mankind8 earlier personalise another scripture drumming the same thing to the corinthians,

Mankind8: The Mesage was meant for the Corintian women who believed to be more Than there Husband. The were proud, heartened and thought the were equal or supirior. That was why ApOSTle [size=14pt]Paul was giving them His personal openion to corintian Women and duty[/size]. GO AND READ BIBLE HISTORY BASIS.

now read below,maybe it is God's instruction or not,im quoting from same verses of same chapter in 1 cor 14;

1 cor 14:33,34,37,40

33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints

34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak;


[size=16pt]37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.[/size]

40 Let all things be done decently and in order.


now lets see how early christians operate during the apostles,

overseers are appointed by team of apostles and older men, there is no mention of women,and i challenge anybody to show bible account that says anything as deaconess leading the church,...nowhere,
lets see the requirements below,

1 Timothy 3 :1-13;
New King James Version (NKJV)
Qualifications of Overseers

3 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop,[a] he desires a good work. 2[size=14pt] A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife,[/size] temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,[b] but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; [size=16pt]4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?)[/size]; 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Qualifications of Deacons

8 Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, 9 holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. [size=16pt]10 But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons,[/size] being found blameless. 11 Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. 12 [size=14pt]Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.[/size] 13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Their wives are not commanded to lead the church,her job is to support her husband in the oversight of training and raing their children humbly as as example to the church....an oversight abandoned to the society that lead bishop or pastors children to be learn other vices or some becoming athiest,due largely to abandonement of duty by the woman.hence

''4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?)''


so if you must reply,kindly back it with scriptures,thanks.
[/b]

[b]@the funclub enterprise,

u are ust being paranoid with their respect for d pastor.I don't see a problem with that.

sorry, something is actually wrong with elevating bishop oyedepo even over other brethren,talkless of even calling him 'papa' which also mean 'father' how do i mean?, jesus gave a command against it,pls read again;

mathew 23:8,9
8 “But [size=16pt]you are not[/size] to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, [size=16pt]and you are all brothers.[/size] 9 [size=14pt]And [color=#000099]do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.[/color][/size]

the emphasis here is that 'you are all brothers'.while christ is the head.pls there is a pattern,read youself;

moreso,
Ephesians 5:23
King James Version (KJV)
23 For the husband is the head of the wife,[size=14pt] even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.[/size]

Now lets see the consequencies of 'assuming'the title that belong to God in the case of king herod;

Acts 12:19-21;
21 And upon a set day Herod, arrayed in royal apparel, sat upon his throne, and made an oration unto them.

22 And the people gave a shout, saying, It is the voice of a god, and not of a man.

23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, [size=14pt]because he gave not God the glory[/size]: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

Herod's silence to the 'undeserved reverence' means that he consented, and you can see the consequence.

Also your quote below (bolded)

I get u, and envy ur argument skills, using facts...... I have decided to rest on it,but ur bible also [size=14pt]told u not to judge didn't it?
And told you to do his prophets no harm?
[/size]
One thing u should know is, I very much disapprove the methods of leadership in most churches, I'm not a member of this guy's church (infact, I dnt tie myslf 2 a church, I rather stick to d words of God in d church,and d day I notice a glitch,and no repentance,I'm off) , I don't tink they call jesus a boy or command him,ur relationship wit jesus is a personal 1,u call him woteva it suits u,disrespect him and u wil surfer 4 it, u are ust being paranoid with their respect for d pastor.I don't see a problem with that.

[size=14pt]If u are a true christain I will advise you not to ever criticize a man of God,to be safe!, leave that for God to decide.
[/size]
Peace..

Thank you for the remarks,to God almighty be the Glory.but then, 'judge not' or 'do not judge', as used in the bible, below here pls,

Matthew 7:1,2,15-16
King James Version (KJV)
Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2,[size=14pt] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged[/size]: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

when i read this above bible verse, i have taken the time to read further,

jesus says 'judge not' in mathew 7:1-2.

only to also say again in verse 15,16 of same verse below;
15 [size=14pt]Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.[/size]

so how do you recognise 'someone in sheeps covering but inwardly is a deadly wolf'? especially with a hidden identity?
Analyse, if you enter a strange location and was told to beware of a misleading read leading to a deadly Gang's hideout, would you just leave everything to fate, and keep quiet? refusing to ask questions and put your judgement into use,expecially when it involve your life's safety?
verse 16 shed more light on that,;

16, Ye shall [size=14pt]know them by their fruits[/size]. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

''knowing them by their fruits'' DEMANDS YOUR JUDGEMENT AND DISCRETION.


We should also note that,our bible was translated from Hebrew and Greek manuscripts,of which most words were rendered in consonants, and to have a fitting words to translate in such a way your mother tongue quickly convey message was a challenge,
this is evident in the way the word 'lord' was used for God almighty, jesus and even, sarai called Abram 'lord',does this mean that abraham is God almighty? no.

Does the bible contradict itself in the matter of 'judge or judgement?
lets see the hebrew meanings in strong hebrew dictionary;
mathew 7:2
2, For with what [size=14pt]judgment ye judge,[/size] ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
emphasis here is on 'judgement ye judge'

JUDGE AND JUDEMENT (as used in the context ot mathew 7)
below;

[size=14pt]G2917

κρίμα

krima

kree'-mah[/size]

[size=14pt]From G2919 ; a decision (the function or the {effect} for or against [ crime ]): - {avenge} {condemned} {condemnation} {damnation} + go to {law} judgment.[/size]


see the meaning in the various instances of the translation of 'judgement or judge' below;

{Avenge} {Condemned} {Condemnation} {Damnation} + Go To {Law} Judgment,
Above instances shows the 'extreme kind of judjement, 'the law court condemnation to death' or 'the final judgement.
see the same usage of code used for this 'type' of judgement 'G2917'
below in
Luke 24:20

And G5037 how G3704 the chief priests G749 and G2532 our G2257 rulers G758 delivered G3860 him G846 to G1519 be [size=18pt]condemned G2917 to death,[/size] G2288 and G2532 have crucified G4717 him.G846

so, with these clarification, of which i knew that my own rebuking of the oyedepo is not out of malice, no. or damnation but for him to change his ways and come through the right pattern and standard of God,that is the extent of my critism and my submissions which is in line with a command given to christians below,
read;

Titus 1:10-13


10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

[size=14pt]11, Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.[/size]

12 One of themselves, [size=14pt]even a prophet of their own[/size], said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.

13 This witness is true. [size=20pt]Wherefore rebuke them sharply,[/size] [size=14pt]that they may be sound in the faith;
[/size]

Paul warned the Galatians about those who "pervert the gospel of Christ." He also said, "If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, [size=18pt]let him be accursed."[/size] (See Gal. 1:6-9). Multitudes today are preaching a perverted gospel.

MATHEW 3:4-7

4 And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.

5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,

6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

[size=14pt]7, But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
[/size]

[size=14pt]so, a healthy criticm is welcomed among cristians as you can see above, i did not write them, but the have been penned down for over 2000 yrs ago, its there in your bible, pls read them aloud.[/size]
your quote

And lastly its God who chooses his prophets and determines if they are fit or not, not man!

to correct you here im reffering to BISHOP OYEDEPO, and not 'prophet' i dont know him as a prophet, but as to the standard of his Bishop, GOD MANDATED MEN TO APPOINT ANYONE AS A BISHOP,(the early apostles will gather in jerusalem to appoint overseers using the standard earlier quoted and re quoted below), NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE WAS ANY COMMAND GIVEN AS REGARDS 'SELF IMPOSITION' OF A BISHOP, PLS I STANT TO BE CORRECTED, QUOTE JUST ONE VERSE OF THE BIBLE TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM ABOVE.

1 Timothy 3 :1-13;
New King James Version (NKJV)
Qualifications of Overseers

3 This is a faithful saying: [size=18pt]If a man desires the position of a bishop,[/size][a] he desires a good work. [size=14pt]2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; [/size]4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. [size=14pt]7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.[/size]


And in the absence of becoming a bishop through above standard,any other order,or orders is unacceptable and he (oyedepo) has failed the christian and bible standard except he humbles himself and accept his mistakes. its not personal anyway,thanks for the courtesy.cheers.