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Reverend:
Nobody came up with the contradictions. They are in the Bible if you like them or not!

So the Bible came up with them, or the men that wrote the fairy stories in the book we know as the Bible.

As for saving souls, what makes you believe that there is such a thing as a soul?

Jesus said that those of you without sin cast the first stone,

@babyosisi

It seems you are quite used to throwing stones

Hey Rev, I need you to stand still now, I got these nice round stones that throw well but I out of practice; if you keep moving I might miss.
So, you say there are contradictions in the Bible, and indeed there are. One don't have to go so far to find them, just look at the four gospels - Matthew, Mark, Luke and John - they not all saying the same thing, and they not all talking to the same people either, as anyone who has bothered to read them would know. But think about it, imagine a human being who 'thinks' and is able to reason, being confronted with these contradictions, what would they do? Shall we ask one?

"Hey! This book is full of lies!" they probably told one it was written in the printing press of God in Heaven! "But God can't make these mistakes, so it must have been written by human beings!" But hold on, they could have made sure there weren't any contradictions in it, couldn't they?! "After all, all they got to have done was read the damn thing and write what they wanted!", So why did they leave these contradictions intact? "Perhaps they were stupid people!" Aha, but the book is written in much too intelligent language than for it to be written by fools!" Okay then, why the contradictions? "What do I know!"

One of the great fallacies is how those who do talk of God do tend to not use their brains, and their capability to reason when it comes to Godly things! When I come across the contradictions, I see a message for me in there. I see me being told that many have tried to package God into some finite entity in a book, and failed, and I better not go along with them!. I see me being told that the most important aspect of me is my ability to reason, and not just accept anything by faith! Yep, I know those who believe by faith are supposed to be more blessed than I would be; in fact, according to Thomas, my life would be a rather difficult one, and I may be stoned and crucified because of my knowing (or unknowing, take one), and not merely believing by faith as many would! Still, I got to work it out somehow; no, God is not handed to one in a nicely packaged book that people believe was printed in heaven regardless of how many people say it is "true" that It was.

I can think back to those Jews who after being freed from the yoke of slavery, made a visible god so they can objectify their faith! I look at the book and peples reaction to it, and though they say it is the word of God, I see an idol myself, which many bow down and worship. But then I consider how many know they worship the book, or that it is their idol, for I know they know they ought to not worship any other God but he, and he was not created in the image of a book!

If there is anything to stop one saying, "I have found God", it is the contradictions in the books that tell one about him, yet it is in the understanding of these contradictions that one does get to know what it is that God is. No one ought to just believe anything they have read, for surely one other person would have read lots more than one somewhere. Indeed someone might be attempting to make one jump off a cliff, or turn stones into bread, but they who know what is written in every book (and I do not mean literally every book!) can say, it is written! People ought to beware they not worshiping the wrong idol!

Now, those round stones? I think I'll just go find something better to do with them, you do not deserve to be stoned!

deleted!

I have seen dead bodies, washed, wrapped in cloth with nice smelly stuff poured on them, put in a box, placed in a hole dug in the ground, and covered with soil, while living humans stand round, sadly.

I have seen dead bodies, washed, wrapped in cloth with nice smelly stuff poured on them, put in a box, and burned, while living beings stand around, sadly.

Every human being is made up of body and that which lives in it. Once the one is separated from the other, whats left is like a bottle of coca cola without the coke. I think its pissed down the loo!

Seriously though, one must come to the conclusion that there must be something in this God very many people insist exists mustn't there? They all can't be lying, not so many people over so long a time - they can't all be deluding themselfs? I'm not in the fashion of delusion myself, and I must say, I have come to the conclusion there must be a God, at least for those who believe there is one. So, Who is God? (I did say it was a good place to start!)

Many believe in the God they have been told about. If I was say, from Saudi Arabia, or if my parents were Muslims, and had taught me about the God they believed in, I would be a Muslim if I had believed what they told me about their God. I would be a Hindu if I grew up in India, perhaps, or a Muslim, or maybe one of the minority of Christians that exists in India. If I was born in China, I may have the belief in myself - that I could accomplish anything I wanted if I put my heart to it, and if say from Japan, I might believe in Shinto. If I was born in Nigeria long before foreign religions came along, I would most likely be an Orisa worshiper. I'm not saying where one is born dictates what one accepts to believe about God, or that one's parents or surrounding dictate what one would hold as true; what I'm saying is that we usually adopt the belief in God from what we are exposed to; some do expand theirselfs by exposing themself to more Gods, and some do expose themselfs so much that they see far beyond what they are told - some even disbelieving it all in its entirety, still, we are products of what we consume, and in the case of religion, we only can believe what we know,

I like the God of the Bible, I also like Allah in the Quran, but I am more exposed to Jehova - one of the many names used for him in the Judaic Bible - than I am to Allah from the Quran. I like Jehova because the book that refers to him is a very intelligent book which holds different levels of eye openings; I call it the book of The Eye, my favorite expression is that made by the blind man in front of the Pharisees whom Jesus gave sight to - "He took some sand, spat on it, and rubbed it in my eye, and I could see!", thats what the book does for me, it opens my eye, an makes me see.

I think, I am an atheist. I do not personally believe there is a God as many would claim one should. I know however that there is something that I do call God, and there is something very many others call "God" too. We all manage to package something into an entity that we refer to when we mention the word "God". But I am unable to do that, package my God into a specific characteristic, or permanency. . I remember the commandment of God, "Thou shalt make no image of me"; I think the Bible manages to package God into an image, nothing to do with a real God. In that, the Muslims, in my opinion, have a greater God, they manage to not limit the nature of the God they are meant to believe in - however, I must say, they themselfs have managed to misinterpret the true nature of God, on the whole, if one were to look at whats going on in the world today. God will save us all, I guess.

God said, "Of all the fruit in the Garden may you eat. But of this tree, the fruit of Good and Evil, you shall eat not. For on the day that thou eat thereof, ye shalt surely die", and ever since, human beings around the world have decided they shall not eat. Many stick there heads so far up Hank's ass for a million, they are unwilling to consider why they stink! Many want unearned rewards so much, they are willing to debase themself by refusing to comprehend what they are doing. Is it not true that "ye must die to be born again?", Why fear ye death, I ask, then! But thats not what many think they are doing; many would not accept they are afraid to die!

I find that when a human being gets to the point in their journey through life, where they can not go along alone, they find God. Many have decided there isn't no God, and they will say so emphatically, but to these I would ask they consider, "So why are you expending so much energy disproving something you believe does not exist to those who believe it does? If there weren't a God, please tell me the wisdom of your telling those who believe there is one that there isn't one? Are you not really trying to find out if there is a God, yourself? Maybe you don't know - I have been told that some might not - but the mere fact that you are on here arguing about it, having done much research, is that not sufficient proof that something exists that is referred to as God? Do you really believe that that which you spend so much energy on is a figment of one's imagination? I ask you to consider, are you imagining things; it sounds larky to me.

I find 'Christians' to be dishonest and outright lazy! I wonder if they ever consider that a God who is the I Am That I Am, can ever be packaged into laws and precepts. If a thing can be whatever it wants to be, who is to say it is how like this or like that? In a sense, it makes one admire the attitude of an agnostic, they at least are not emphatically saying, "this is how it is", though, according to the Christian, that is the sin of disbelief; they would ask that a person believe in that which one's eye has not comprehended - kind of like the fairy at the bottom syndrome; "Look buda, there is a fairy at the bottom of the garden!", "I can't see it", "O! just believe it is there!" "Why?" Because, if you don't you will go to hell! Indeed, that may work for the person who's mind one wished to control! And I dare say, quite a lot of what does pass for a belief in God is about relinquishing one's control to another being or entity; it would seem no one wants to take responsibility anymore, "so lets all say, God done it"! not that I'm saying he didn't do it or anything, in a way, God did done it, after all, he did create one in his own image to create just like he did. But to then think that he created everyone in the same image in which he created everyone else is lemminglike conformity - anyone with a brain would look a bit deeper.

"I am the Lord thy God! Thou shalt not worship anyone but me!" Why, one should reduce oneself to the worship of another God then beffudles me. Why anyone would chose to worship the image of someone else's God, beats me hands down, though I can see the laziness that permits it. After all, if one could make the effort to go to one's God directly, not looking in a book, but where God is supposed to live - inside one, one would find oneself. But the idea that one creates one's own God is not what we would have the world know! Just imagine, everyone saying, "I am God!", we can't have that type of chaos - even though, out of that comes the orderly separation of the land from the sea, the dark from the light, and the stupid from the outright intelligent, and so on! Indeed as was said, when they came to ask Jesus if he were the messiah, "Tell John what you see; the lame walk, the blind see, and the deaf get back their hearing", is the gospel not preached for those who are poor? I guess Hank has the eradication of the type of poverty many would have in mind.

"You shall surely die!" - if you take of the fruit of good and evil and eat thereof; you will be naked too. You will realise that all that which you have built around you as being so is not exactly so perhaps, unless you have remembered to use a lamp. Even then, you would look again because you dared to consider that perhaps you never looked well enough when you looked first time. You will see because your eyes will open, you will not be able to accept illogical reasoning as evidence for what is not there; you will not be able to subjugate your God given reasoning to the will of belief; beliefs, you merely read about in a book - a book many spend so much time indoctrinating themself into and end up merely believing, never deigning to know outright; spewing words they have little or no comprehension, or even a figment thereof; claiming they do not know in the same sentence they bid that others accept their 'knowing', never accepting that one may dare to seek to know - even though the book says one should know one's God!

There is a God for those who believe there is one. Everyone's God is in the image they themselfs alone can comprehend. Peoples Gods are of attributes and character as they believe their Gods have, and no one can convince another otherwise. If I didn't know that my God is whatever he decides to be, I too might tell you about him, but I'd be telling till the cows come home, and you would still stick to your very own image of God. Your God is what is revealed to you, and my God is that which is revealed to me, and each of us has different strenghts of seeing, and even each one's God may be of different brightness. Maybe those who do not know there is a God have bad eyes, or maybe their God is not shinning brightly enough for them to see it. I tell you, they sure are better off that way than to convince themself they see the God that other's are try to tell them is there - it is sure kind of like saying, "ok, I see the fairy", when you don't, really! And whatever your God may not be, he sure is not a lying toe rag, whatever image he may be in? All I can hope for is that no one takes their God out of a cornflakes box! Make sure your God is the best God on the block!

and for those of you who never found no God in your cornflakes? Maybe just go out and buy another pack, like you normally would; you don't, you might find God!

Christino:
Interpretation of Pascal's Wager:

A satirical story, quite enjoyable, that arrives at the conclusion that only a fool would take Pascal's wager.


A truly astounding example of the power of philosophy that shows Pascal to be off 180°, or one can in a well constructed satirical dialogue arrive at the same place.

Any one want to go kiss Hank's ass for a million?

There must be some takers

Reverend:
Maybe he is Scottish

Then I definitely wont look under his skirt

You, are a gentleman

goodguy:
buda atum,

are you agnostic? You sound like one who is.

No, I am not agnostic, goodguy.
I know there is God, for me.

michelin89:
So why should I have to bound myself to something that will limit my liberty in taking decisions that also concern my life?

I agree with your point, to a certain extent. Religion means "to do something repetitively, and at regular intervals", you see, one religiously does something - be it prayer, fast, go to church, or play football, and that is why it is religion, "that which one does". Now, there is surely nothing binding in that! Surely no more than one would decide to be bound to that which one wishes to be bound to? You can leave anytime, you know! Its not exactly like slavery!

Indeed, some people are religiously Christains or Muslims, or Judaists. Some follow what has been laid down as 'law' from God, they obey obediently the religious text of their religion. But how else would one expect those who have such a bond of obedience with their God, those who have so been indoctrinated into ideology without fully seeking to comprehend first that which they call God, relate to their God if not by the way they believe their God has asked them to relate to It? If a person's God asked one to be It's slave, does one say "no"?

Yet, some people relate to their God differently! Some people's God does not tell them to obey obediently so some people dare to say to their God, "God, do you really mean that?"and some dare to ask, "God is that really you?" I hope you can see these type disobediently saying, "Go to hell!" if God were to say to them to, "Take your son Isaac and cut his throat, I want to drink blood"! The religious would have us call murder, obedience! But those who know God would tell you how God does nothing of the type!

Some who worship God do not worship a God because they are enslaved to a God; they worship God because somehow, God has effected or has had an effect in the attainment of their liberation from bad beliefs and ideology, the type that enslaves many! Some peoples God rather than reduce the liberty they may have in making choice for their own advancement in the world, increases the power to make those choices, and make even much better one's so they believe, if they didn't have their relationship with God. The thing is, the God one sees determines whether one's God is a slave master God - one that goes around binding others to It; or a liberating God - one that frees one from even death!

Reverend:
@ Buda Atum

How big is your farm?

Thou shalt not look under another persons skirt, Reverend

[center]Glad you enjoyed it.
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In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and he kept it to himself, and along came the prince of the morning, and he said to Eve (ever wondered why he told the woman?) "Don't mind that God! For you shall not surely die, but you shall become like us!" But whats that got to do with anything, you probably wondering.

There have been many Princes of Light, or shall I say, knowledge, or even Wisdom, and hence Christs, from the very beginning of time, but I shall go back as far as Plato's Cave, ever heard the allegory?. Well, there were these people who dwelled inside a cave and never knew there was a world outside the cave, but one of them managed to escape from the cave. Plato asked, if he came back into the cave, and told those who were inside the cave that there was a world outside, what would they do to him?

But lets take a trip through a garden, instead; make sure you look out for the Tree now! There was this Adam and Eve, children of God - not his first, for he apparently had previous children, one of whom behaved somewhat like the prodigal son, except that he never returned to his father, bad boy. Anyway, Adam lived with his first wife in the garden where they both worked for their master in return for their daily bread. One day, the prodigal son, who was not quite prodigious - an ex-angel he was (I think he had been fired or something), came back and told them they should eat the fruit of the God, the one he told them they mustn't eat, for if they did they shall surely die. And he said to Eve, specifically, "Ah, you shan't die! You'll just become like us!" And she ate, and she didn't die, and she gave Adam some to eat too, and he didn't die neither. Now I can't tell if they became like God or nothing, perhaps they never ate enough! - all I can say is they began wearing leaves, and had to plant their own food in their own garden from then on, and there was something about them suffering!

But lets fast forward a bit! For God so loved the world, that he sent his only begotten son, to feed some fruit to some human beings, those human beings who were back in the cave - if you get my drift. And he told those in the cave that they had been lied to, being made to believe the walls of the cave were the entire world; "and those who lied to you, know better", he said, "there is a better way out there, these lot just pile stuff on your head that they themselfs cannot carry!", he told them. But they said, " bulls locks! Inside this cave is the entire world!" And he insisted, and just as Plato said they would, they crucified him!

So who was this guy who's Christ was Jesus, you ask? I say some wise dude who was well learned, though some will tell you the dove done it! Ok, before any one gets a couple of two by fours and nails me to it - maybe its the truth, maybe the dove done it, at least I know it is the truth for some, but as me and he are related, being that we share the same father, unless you want to say I do not know my very own father - but I shall leave that to you, shall I - point is, our father had many children!

Many would say that God had only one son, yet even that so called one son said we are all his children, so I myself cannot understand where people get that nonsense from - though I can understand if you believe you aren't worthy! All I can say is God has about about 6 billion children, last time I heard anyone counted! But you can subtract one, yourself, if you reckon I'm lying, Child of God! Jesus the Christ is the one we know this side of the world, but still, he was one of very many!

Many of these children have had the Christ inside them ever since, and before him - remember Moses? he was one; and Joseph the dreamer was too, and so was that David who couldn't keep his fly done up, and that Solomon who had everything added unto him; indeed there have indeed been many who have brought the light for humans so they can see the walls of the cave they live in and free themselfs, and there have been others who have stayed inside the cave, not allowing the Christ in them to awaken! But I would understand if you say I lie, for I am told its like my father's farm - its the biggest farm in the entire world if you haven't worked on any others, if you have, you'd know for sure there are bigger farms out there!

I could attempt to post a position on this, but those who can comprehend would see right through me, so let me start with a question - its the best place to start! What is [a]God? There! Answers on a postcard please!

I've read through, and can understand how unconvincing all those who say there is a God are. The arguments given here - and lots of better one's, have been used to attempt to convince me too, but they never worked. In fact, nothing makes one who does not believe in the existence of God disbelieve more than the lame attempts of those who would prove that there is a God! The chicken and the egg theory, as proof of God? How lame indeed! And to think one can quote a book about God to prove there is a God! What complete nonsense!

All the same, in an attempt at dishonesty, if you may, "In the beginning, God created heaven and earth"; well, he did, for those who would believe that stuff; and he placed Adam and Eve in the garden he created, saying, "Work! Produce! Eat! But do not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge"! And thats what many do, they obey! For if they do not, they believe they would go to hell, or they might realise that they are naked, and who wouldn't believe in a God who makes me not seem like a mad person, walking down the street with no clothes on? I sure bloody would believe if I were afraid of being called mad, until I think about it somewhat that is, and discover that is exactly what a master would tell a slave, "work, produce, but do not enjoy the benefits of your labour, for its no good for you!!" And we wonder why the people suffer!

In an old Egyptian text, God said to Adam and Eve, "Produce and eat of the tree of good and evil and you shall become like us"! I can't but think of what my dear brother said in the book of John, "Do you not know that ye are Gods?" I suppose, only those who would dare to eat of the fruit of the best tree in the garden would dare to be naked just like the Gods, but that fruit is indeed not for mere mortals like some to eat, hell no! They would rather be slaves, who, after all wants to be the master?

Trying to convince a person who does not believe in the God one believes in is like saying another should believe in that which oneself believes to be so but cannot show to another. So are you really asking that one believe there is a God, or that one believe you? that others should have faith in what you tell them without showing them any evidence at all? Are you really asking others to accept that you know more than they can possibly know? And who are you again? One of those who has eaten of the fruit and become so wise that you would dare to know perhaps; Like one of those who has gone to the heavens and seen the God in his kingdom and come down to tell others to merely believe in the fruit that you ate while you were there, without bringing any back hence allowing them to partake of the eating themself? Let me laugh a little. Sounds like you eating a good meal there, then trying to convince me it tastes good without allowing me to taste any of it myself, to me! Or maybe you haven't really eaten of the fruit at all, but just believe because you were told it tastes good? Interesting! and I suppose you are asking that others take your word on faith?

I find it interesting when some tell others to believe; they do not know any better and dare not seek for fear they may find, yet neither would they allow those who would seek to seek! They sound like daddy and mummy saying, "Child, mind! The fires hot!" Isn't it much better to allow me to put my fingers in the fire and find out for myself? Hell no, I suppose, after all, you are your sisters keeper, or shall I just call you my master, while I'm at it! You love me and have to protect me? Why not let me learn to burn myself, I wonder? Did you just call me "slave"?

Many who would claim that there is a God, would hark back to statements from the book, which would depend on which one they have read. I myself have been made to understand that they were written in the printing press of God all the way up in the Heavens, so why would those who haven't seen, those who are without properly functioning eyes not quote it as if it, the book, were the God? But if I may, let me harp back to my brothers words by quoting, "The Kingdom of God is within you", and unless you want to perform an operation, opening me up, showing my insides to me to prove to me that there is indeed a God living inside his kingdom which is inside of me - Oi! get away from me with that carving knife, please! - I really do not know how you going to prove to me that inside me somewhere is the kingdom of God, his home, where he lives. If I do not know that myself already! Makes one wonder why it is written "seeing they shall not see, hearing they shall not hear", don't it!

I tell you the truth, if there is indeed a God, he created not only you who believes - no! - He created also they who do not know there is God. And since he done what he done without asking you or I, he must have his reasons, I say. As I used to say, if there is a God, and he created me, then he better come down from where he is and prove to me that he exists. All I can now say is, when he did decide to bother, all I could say was, "I didn't know you existed Lord"! But I guess I'm the lucky one, that he is some kind God, I would be burning in hell otherwise!

Still, the beginning is to know what it is that you talk of! Answers on a postcard please! What is God? Thats where one really ought to begin.

It is great to be part of what seems to be a great revolution in the psyche of the Nigerian people.

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I, buda, have found the light!


aleluya, amen!