Goshen360: Bishop Mike just shot himself in the leg. If he's saying first fruit is not a new testament practice, how about tithe? Same is tithe, it's not a new covenant practice and such cannot be found in the new testament.
Who's Bishop Mike disguising to? You recently invited Ashimolowo to your church and alas, his message was on tithe. If first fruit not in the practice of new testament Christians so is tithe you should drop it off your church and stop the double standard.
Big bro
I respect your anti-tithe stance from way back.
To me his message is not clear enough. He should go all the way in debunking the entire practice.
It is clear that these people trying to save face are not ready to repent.
The pro-tithe brigade will still keep up their vanguard irrespective of the evidence on ground. It looks like Bishop Okonkwo doesn't want to ruffle feathers. The PFN pastors may not like the sound of what he is saying but he comes across as stopping halfway.
My kettle of fish doesn't make you understand what I encountered as a worker.
Your "humble" opinion is sacred to you.
Sorry for trying to correct an impression, especially one that was formed from afar. My experience at close quarters isn't enough for you. You still want to hold onto your"humble opinion" so as not to be seen as wanting.
If I ask you to find out if my assertion about workers tithing is true from workers who are still there you will insult me again. So I will allow you and your ego to be.
It is people like you and their attitude that drove me out of the church: people whose pride is paramount; who can't climb down from a position and admit they may not be right in spite of the facts on ground. You did not counter the fact that Bishop took a Sunday in each month to pray for tithers-a subtle way of coercion into tithe paying. You decided to call it my kettle of fish.
Please let this needless debate end here. I have better things than indulging in this pettiness.
GrammarCheck: I wasn't a worker or sch of discipleship member. I was just a go- to- church person and i did not feel coerced to pay tithe. He didnt threaten fire and brimstone like I saw in other places. As far as I was concerned it wasn't by force.
As a former worker in TREM I can tell you it was compulsory.
As a former graduate of School of Discipleship I can tell you it was compulsory
Yes he didn't threaten anybody, but it was implied in several ways that it was compulsory.
To me it is still the same. Whether or not there was a threat. He used to take one sunday in every month to pray for tithers. That is a subtle way to coerce people into tithing.
I grew up in TREM. From Akoka HQ to Obanikoro old church, to the mega church. I never heard the word First Fruit. The only things we did were tithe and offering. And tithing was optional. Very optional. If you wanted to donate money in church towards a project, it was your choice by making a vow.
Until I visited BLW on campus because we didn't really have a TREM campus fellowship...and I kept wondering what the hell first fruit meant.
Big Daddy didn't teach us such. Where you will hear big daddy's voice is Discipline and Faith.
As a child, chai, I had faith for Africa because of what he preached in church. I still have Faith sha
This is not true.
It may not have been said explicitly, but tithing was made compulsory. It was implied.
firstly as a Worker and graduate of School of Discipleship, you had to be a tither. Tithe booklets were issued.
Big Daddy used to take a Sunday to pray for tithers.
Even he has admitted that he used to preach that non-tithers are cursed.
akintom: If it ever come to a time, that all pastors in Nigeria, fall on their knees in confession of their fraudulent acts and EXTORTION by MANIPULATION, only bishop oyedepo will be left. He will rather die, than repent.
The atheistic thoughts is really watering down God-idea to what it's - jokes
The pride and anger in that man makes me wonder how he is a pastor, even at the risk of sounding judgmental.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGtqAlBlzLM This is one of the two videos, I watched last year I dont know where you at, but just you know, its an over a hour YouTube video Brilliant video, I couldnt fault, not that I had any mission to Anyway, the part about tithing started at the last five minutes of the video
I heard it.
From 1:06:57
" When you receive Grace, no one will beg you. . . no one will tell people "pay their tithe"..."
From then on he tried to justify why he preached the message of "pay tithe of be cursed" as being product of a background, instead of accepting full responsibility. He then said it's a matter of how your heart is.
Which is the issue I have with these people slowly crawling out to offer some sort of mea culpa on this tithing thing. No one wantsto fully take ownership of the fact that they have been preaching and teaching an error.
He then started to talk about himself and his "reputation". . . .which was kind of sad because it isn't about him as well.
MuttleyLaff: Dont over do it though whilst at it Tip. It was towards the end, you'll miss noticing it, if you blink, sneeze or cough though
Thanks for the heads up I normally try to pay attention to matters like these to avoid being subliminally hoodwinked. But I will take your advice. I intend listening to the whole clip to try to gain some perspective on his point of view as per the subject but I will be on the edge towards the end as you pointed out
Meanwhile what about your former co-debaters Gombs joagbaje Image123 et al? Any news from MarkMiwerds? I used to follow your debates on tithing and some of the insight I gained on the topic were from you and Mark Those debates died down for a while till this sort of awakening on the issue brought it to the fore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGtqAlBlzLM This is one of the two videos, I watched last year I dont know where you at, but just you know, its an over a hour YouTube video Brilliant video, I couldnt fault, not that I had any mission to Anyway, the part about tithing started at the last five minutes of the video
Thanks so much On duty right now. Will watch when free.
He used to be my pastor in the early to mid 2000s.
MuttleyLaff: I actually watched him on this YouTube video sometime last year, admitting quite a few wrongs he did like, scaring people about repercussions of not tithing etcetera.
He even said, when he embarked on lifting the lid on false teachings and practices of ecclesiastical monitised tithing, some of his inner caucus members tried to caution him, claiming finances will cease and dry up.
He said, of course, finance dwindled, in the beginning after he opened up to church members, but at least his conscience was clear, he was doing the right thing and he was standing right with God
He further said, the church isn't his, so it was left to God to see to the financial needs of His church, that all he will and had to do, is to teach right.
At the end of the confession, I stood up and gave him a standing ovation but my euphoria suddenly nose dived at something he then said, and I heard myself muttering and asking; why, why, why did you have to spoil something so good and beautiful, with this now?
This post summarizes everything that is wrong with the pro-tithe movement very aptly
Believers are made to feel that compulsory tithing is what drives the church.
It is going to be hard to eradicate that mentality.
But again he in my view isn't doing the tithe question complete justice. You and I know that tithing is null and void. References to Abraham giving a tenth to Melchizedek are not necessary because it didn't fall in line with God's commandment on paying tithe. Just like paying a 10thof your wages is not specified anywhere.
But at least he is bursting the bubble for those other "missions" that claim they keep you from being poor by taking your money away.
Pray tell can you share what he said that burst your morale
By now it should occur to you that something is wrong somewhere. Just go to a quiet corner, sip a can of chilled Hero beer and think out what it is that is making you support losers.
Na afrodoc2 and leyqute dey middle dey bump shoulders. Na Pastor elrony dey front in orange shirt. Na me be the guy at the back with potbelly and belt around the waist wey no sabi dance. Na oasis007 be the baba with grey hair and black cap wey dey on my left. Na bushwickbill dey wear sweater for the side by that tire. Na neezar dey in white shirt and black stripes on the other side. Na Nihilist, diggz and skimpledawg be the three guys behind nezzar wey dey try famz us.