₦airaland Forum

subomi-luv another interesting article about race and beauty from a black american man's perspective:

[b]Race and beauty
Sat 26 May 2007 by abagond


I have always thought that for a women to be beautiful and desirable she should have a good figure, one that is round in all the right places. She should have some meat on her bones. She should not look like a stick. Thin women do not even feel right: I can feel their bones!

To me this just seemed like obvious, common sense. I did not question it. It was the way God made me, and therefore all men. The stick women you see in magazines are creatures of the fashion industry. No real man would go for them.

Or so I thought.

I notice that when a beautiful black woman walks down the street, the black men will turn to look at her but the white men do not seem to notice her. Strange: they are still men, right?

Maybe they look down on blacks so much that they do not even consider looking at black women as the women they are.

But of course it is not that simple

Every now and then you hear white people say someone is “pretty for a black girl”. What can that possibly mean but that most black women are not pretty? That even the woman in question is not really all that pretty? That whites have an idea of beauty that is based on race, one clearly not shared by black men?

It seems that races have different ideas of female beauty.

That was the subject of the Tyra Banks television talk show earlier this week. On her show we find out that whites and Asians like their women thin, even unnaturally thin. They consider that beautiful. Just like in the magazines! Blacks and Latin Americans on the other hand, like their women to have a good, full figure. They consider that beautiful. Just like me!

Tyra had four American women on the stage: one white, one black, one Latin and one Asian. She showed them different sorts of women (often without giving away their race) and asked them who was beautiful and who was not and why.

It is hard for one woman to represent her whole race, of course. But still I was surprised at how they could look at the same woman and see her so differently.

Not only did the white and Asian women think the full-figured women were not beautiful, they thought they were disgusting and should lose some weight, if only for their health. Likewise the black and Latin women thought the thin women were too thin for their health. That is how far from beautiful they thought they were.

Even so it is hard for me not to think that whites and Asians have been brainwashed by Hollywood and Barbie into praising stick women.

But of course it is not that simple.[/b]

http://abagond./2007/05/26/race-and-beauty/

50calibre: Even frank Bruno

exactly, I think the way they look at it they feel that they are doign the black person a favour by just being with them.

This is why you will never find a rich white woman with a poor black man but you will find a lot of broke white woman with very very rich black men.

As the black person it as if you have to bring something extra to the table to justify a white person wanting to be with you ie looks and/or money. When was the last time you saw a rich white man with an average looking black woman? But i have seen countless average looking white women with very good looking and even rich black men.

[quote author=Subomi-luv]Most blk girls are not the cream of the crop then why are most blk women and men together,that should mean most blk men are not the cream of the crop either. This just shows how ignorant and jealous you are. These are the same blk men who go on abt white women but if they see a blk women with a white men they get upset. A friend who is dating a white guy went to a restaurant and where they were siting a blk guy and his wht gf were there. The blk guy kept staring at them giving them bad looks yet he is with a whyt women so wtf is up with that. I'm tired. I am officially done. I cannot sped whole day arguing with you and i wont. So lets agree to disagree. White, blk, asian men in general i have no problem in that department thank you.[/quote]I do not subscribe to the view that most black women are not the cream of the crop, there are many beautiful black women out there, the problem is that many black women are not appreciated by black men in the western world because many black men in the west suffer from self hatred issues.

At the end of the day black people are better off being with each other and not with other races because only a black man who truly loves himself can appreciate the beauty of a black woman and the same goes with a black woman, only a black woman can truly have a black man's back -if you check most of these marriages between black men and white women - as soon as the guy either loses his job or something happens to him which reduces his attractiveness, the white woman will start looking for a way to get out of the marriage. Chris Eubank the black british boxer is a good example - when he was making money the woman stuck around and even though it was obvious from her body language that she didnt like him talk less of love him she stayed around, but as soon as he declared bankruptcy the woman sued for divorce, and this is a man who went through hell to get her to agree to marry him. (by the way i am not a fan of Eubank in any way shape or form)

Subomi-luv - at the end of the day you are better off being with someone who you have something in common with culturally because when the looks fade you will still need to have someone you can relate to on a deeper level, this is why marriages between black women and white men as well as black men and white women never last.

I dont know whether you know this black british talk show presenter Tricia - she's now on her third marriage to a white guy her marriage to her first husband only lasted a couple of months because he turned out to be bisexual and later died of hiv aids, she didnt fare any better with the second one and she's now on the third one.

Third time lucky eh!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-550468/I-didnt-realise-husband-gay-Trisha-Goddard-tells-story-shattering-betrayal.html

[quote author=Subomi-luv]lol you are using a 2008 article and which was abt celebrities. Am sorry that is far from the truth. I just uploaded a recent video of a white guy saying what they really think abt blk women. Some ppl say white men want beyonce lookalikes but if you look at the everyday white interacial couple she is not a beyonce or a halle berry she is even dark skinned at most times. This is what i mean by hearsay stereotypes.[/quote]You make 2008 sound like it was 100 years ago, i can assure you that white men's views have not changed dramatically since then.

My observation of white men in the western world is that the majority do not marry black women, i think this is for a combination of reasons:

they have been brought up to see white women's beauty as ideal and superior to the beauty of women of other races particularly black women's beauty- this is why when they do go for a black woman she will usually have european facial and/or body features.

they do not want to be ostracised by their friends and family as most whites are racist


they dont want to have mixed race children that will have to suffer the same levels of discrimination that other full blooded blacks in the werstern world are subjected to on a daily basis.

just my opinion

Also Subomi- luv the writer goes on to compile a list of the most beautiful black women according to white people - he got the information by sourcing white magazines with lists of the most beautiful women - majority of the black women who made it on to the list were the ones who had some white or near white parent:

[b]The most beautiful black women according to white people
Mon 3 Mar 2008 by abagond
Here are the black women that English-speaking white people think are the most beautiful (with the number of lists of beautiful women each one made in my survey):



Halle Berry (9 lists) – American film actress, the first black woman to win an Oscar for Best Actress. She was Storm in the X-Men films (2000-2006) and the Bond girl in “Die Another Day” (2002). She won the Oscar for “Monster’s Ball” (2001). Her mother is white, her father is black.



Beyonce Knowles (8 lists) – American singer. She was in Destiny’s Child and then on her own. Her father is black, her mother is Creole.


Tyra Banks (4 lists) – American supermodel. She is the first black woman to make the cover of GQ magazine and, more importantly for this list, Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue (1997). More.



Mariah Carey (3 lists) – American singer. She sings like a black girl but looks like a white girl. Her mother is Irish white, her father is Venezuelan black.



Thandie Newton (3 lists) – British film actress. She starred opposite Tom Cruise in “Mission Impossible 2″ (2000). Born in Africa to a white father and a black mother, she grew up in England and later came to Hollywood. She was shocked at how much her skin colour mattered there – more than in Africa or England. Tom Cruise had to fight for her to star opposite him.



Vanessa Williams (2 lists) – an American beauty queen, singer and actress. She was the first black Miss America (1983). You can see her on American television in “Ugly Betty”. She is so light her eyes are green.



Iman (2 lists) – a supermodel from Somalia married to rock star David Bowie.



Angela Bassett (2 lists) – American film actress. Although she is a beautiful and wonderful actress, I am surprised she made this list: I did not think she was that well known among white people.



Alicia Keys (2 lists) – American singer. White mother, black father.

Half of these women have a white or near-white mother.

This list has the only three black women who have ever made the cover of Maxim magazine in America: Beyonce Knowles, Halle Berry and Mariah Carey.

How I made the list: I put “the most beautiful women” into Google and went through the first 100 websites. If a website had a list of beautiful women that was nearly all white, then I recorded any black women it might have.

As I went through the lists I soon understood that they were made by people with more than just a passing interest in white women. So I think it is safe to say that nearly all the list makers were white themselves.

Because of how I made my list, it necessarily concerns only English-speaking whites. There were lists from Britain and Australia, but most seemed to be American. There were also a few lists from the Middle East and India too, but they did not affect the outcome because they only dealt with women from their part of the world.[/b]

http://abagond./2008/03/03/the-most-beautiful-black-women-according-to-white-people/

Subomi luv - you might find this article written by an african american man interesting, i dont know whether you are based in the US or the UK but black women are viewed by white men quite similarly all over the western world, remember these are just the writer's views but they make for interesing reading:

[b]Black women that white men like
Wed 28 May 2008 by abagond


White American men seem to go for certain kinds of black women and not for others. The same is true for black men and white women, but that is another post.

I have not done any grand survey nor am I setting forth any iron rules – I know all white men are not alike. These are just some notes and observations of what I have noticed in New York.

If any black women or white men want to add their own general observations that would be great. If I have it all wrong, please tell me. I have some examples at the end. You can weigh in on them.

If you ask white men to name a beautiful black woman, most will name someone who is light-skinned, like Beyonce or Halle Berry. So you would think that among black women they would mainly go after light-skinned women. But the strange thing is they do not.

And yet they do prize whiteness in women, even in black women, but the whiteness they want is not as simple as skin colour. It is more in the general shape of her body – thin, maybe with large breasts, but not too big of a bottom. The features of her face can be black, but not too black. Hair, surprisingly, does not seem to matter that much. So it is not uncommon to see a white man with a dark-skinned black woman with natural hair.

Both black men and white men in America are affected by white ideas of female beauty, but they apply them to black women differently:

Black men apply it to skin colour (light) and hair (long and straight), but not so much to the shape of the body (still thick, though that seems to be changing).

White men are almost the opposite of that: they do not care so much about skin colour or hair – those who do apparently stick to white women – but they do care about the shape of the body and the features of the face.

Some examples:

Many white men would date these women: Iman, Jourdan Dunn, Gabrielle Union, Sanaa Lathan, Garcelle Beauvais, Lela Rochon, YaYa Da Costa, Angela Bassett, Kerry Washington, Aisha Tyler, any young black woman in an ad, in Playboy, any black weather girl or supermodel.



Most of these women have what I call a cutsie-pie face, like Gabrielle and Garcelle.

Way fewer white men would date these: Phylicia Rashad, Toccara Jones, Bria Myles, Estelle, Brandy Norwood, Adriana Bombom, Elise Neal, Latavia Roberson, Jill Marie Jones, Sade, Omotola, Liris Crosse, Angell Conwell, Heather Headley.


By dating I do not mean sex. I mean someone they would seriously show to their mother as their girlfriend.

Heather Headley and Sade, by the way, are married to white men. But, like I said, not all white men are alike.

[/b]

http://abagond./2008/05/28/black-women-that-white-men-like/

interesting account of Margaret Thatcher from an african american's perspective:

[b]Margaret Thatcher
Tue 9 Apr 2013 by abagond

Margaret Thatcher (1925-2013), the Iron Lady, was the British prime minister from 1979 to 1990, the first woman to reach that office. She moved Britain to the right, overturning socialist policies in favour of naked capitalism. Like President Reagan in America, she cut government help for the poor to lower taxes on the rich. She broke the back of the labour unions and freed the banks.

By the numbers: The change during her rule (green for very good, red for bad):

Life expectancy: 74 years to 76
Infant mortality: 12 per 1,000 lives births (1980) to 8
Literacy: 99% to 99%
Electricity: 4,684 kWh per capita (1980) to 5,357
Inflation: 10.3% to 9.7%
Unemployment: 5.3% to 7.3%
Income inequality: 25.3 to 33.9 – GINI coefficient (USA = 47.7 in 2011)
Poverty rate: 13.4% to 22.2%
Living conditions: 0.748 (1980) to 0.784 – HDI (USA = 0.910)
Murder rate: 1.1 (1980) per 100,000 to 1.2 (USA = 5.2)
The gains went mainly to London, the south-east, the banks and the already well-to-do.

In the 1970s the two main centres of power were big business and labour unions. Governments were cowed by unions and tried to keep unemployment low.

Thatcher broke the power of labour unions in the coal miners’s strike of 1984 and further weakened them with new labour laws. She worked to lower taxes and inflation rather than unemployment and poverty.

Unemployment reached 11.9% in 1984 and was over 20% in some places – rates not seen since the Great Depression of the 1930s. Race riots broke out in Brixton and elsewhere in 1981 and 1985.


Brixton, London, 1981
Privatization: She sold off British Telecom, British Airways, British Gas and others.

President Obama said Thatcher was “one of the great champions of freedom and liberty”. She championed freedom for banks, Eastern Europe and Southern Rhodesia (Zimbabwe), but supported undemocratic rule in South Africa, Palestine, Chile, Pakistan, Iraq and Cambodia. She considered Nelson Mandela a terrorist – while inviting apartheid leader P.W. Botha to London.



Thatcher on black and brown immigration:

the British character has done so much for democracy, for law, and done so much throughout the world, that if there is any fear that it might be swamped, people are going to react and be rather hostile to those coming in.

In 1982 Argentina took the Falkland Islands. She sent Britain’s two aircraft carriers and took them back (with some help from America and Chile).

In 1983 she allowed America to base 160 Cruise missiles 100 km west of London at Greenham Common. She opposed the American invasion of Grenada, a Commonwealth country, but America left a voicemail and did it anyway.

In 1984 the IRA tried to kill her.

She won re-election in 1983, on the heels of the Falklands War, and in 1987, when Britain was recovering.

She opposed tying the pound to Europe, splitting her party, the Tories. In 1990 Michael Heseltine challenged her for party leadership. He lost – but so did she. John Major became the new Tory leader and prime minister.

The Labour Party, now lacking strong unions, made itself into a me-too capitalist party. When it returned to power in 1997 under Tony Blair it left Thatcher’s main policies in place.


Soulmates Thatcher and Reagan
Sources: Guardian, World Bank, The Telegraph[/b]

http://abagond./

The reason the british govt won't give her a state funeral is because the masses of working class people in this country will disrupt it, even Cam M...oron isnt that stu.pid as to provoke the already angry british people.

Katsumoto: When you finish laughing, can you refer us to the pages in the following books where Britain's complicity in the overthrow of Buhari's government is postulated?

1) Hegemony or Survival by Professor (Emeritus) Noam Chomsky of MIT?

2) Against Empire by Michael Parenti Phd Yale ?

Please don't disappoint just as you have disappointed to articulate how Britain could have survived the recession brought on by the left wing government of James Callaghan in 1979. Talk is cheap.

If your idol had her way people like you would still be in chains - she regarded black people as sub human and when she was advised to place economic sanctions on the aparthied regime of south africa she refused. In her book black people were not worthy of even the slightest iota of respect or compassion, its therefore quite frankly embarrasing to witness a full grown supposedly educated black man like you continuing to sing this woman's praises despite the overwhelming level of contempt and disgust that her fellow white british people are pouring on her.

I really feel sorry for you.

shymexx: [size=18pt]Time to start posting Lady Thatcher's legacy!![/size]

you must have read my mind bro

Here's an interesting one:

[b]Thatcher’s legacy
9 April 2013


Margaret Thatcher, the friend of Chile’s fascist dictator General Augusto Pinochet and supporter of the apartheid system of racial discrimination in South Africa, has died of a stroke at the age of 87.
Neither the media’s eulogies to Thatcher as a great stateswoman, nor the staging of a day of national mourning complete with military honours, can conceal the fact that she died arguably the most hated figure in British politics.


Most working people will have greeted the announcement of her demise with cold indifference, contempt, and, in some cases, celebration. Impromptu street parties were underway in several cities within hours of her death.
Comparisons have been made repeatedly between Thatcher and Winston Churchill. They are inappropriate. A right-wing defender of British imperialism, not even Churchill’s opponents would deny his obvious political stature. At a time of acute crisis, he was able to invoke history and make an appeal to social layers far beyond his natural constituency in the ruling elite. In contrast there is not a single intelligent remark that can be cited as coming from Thatcher, only inane sound-bites tailored to a supportive press such as “The lady’s not for turning.”
Margaret Hilda Roberts embodied everything that is narrow-minded and philistine in the English middle class. She was preoccupied solely with self-advancement and enrichment, owing much of her success to having secured a rich husband. Her political talents, such as they were, consisted of the nasty cunning and ruthlessness of the social climber.
Of far more interest than her personal biography are the historical circumstances that enabled such a relative non-entity and political sociopath—epitomised by her declaration, “There is no such thing as society”—to rise to such a position of prominence.
Thatcher’s ascent to the leadership of the Conservative Party in 1975 expressed the right-wing shift in British and international politics that developed with the receding of the wave of explosive class struggles that had wracked Europe between 1968 and 1975. She was the chosen vessel of the most corrupt and reactionary elements within the British ruling class—those most bitter at her predecessor Edward Heath’s defeat by the miners’ strike of 1974.
Thatcher is indelibly associated with the presidency of Ronald Reagan—with her espousal of the monetarism of Milton Friedman complementing the pursuit of “Reaganomics” in the United States. Aimed at removing all limits on private wealth accumulation, her premiership (1979-1990) was conducted under the banner of “rolling back” the frontiers of socialism. By this was meant the overturning of all the social gains won by the working class in the post-war period.
Her political appeal, such as it was, was directed primarily to a section of the upper middle class who were promised a get-rich-quick scheme to be funded by tax cuts, a fire-sale of public assets, and a speculative boom. The destruction of industry and deregulation of the City of London was accompanied by union-busting, attacks on welfare and an aggressive assertion of the interests of British imperialism. The result was mass unemployment and violent class conflict.
Among Thatcher’s crimes now being airbrushed from the historical record by the media was her key role in the death by starvation of Sinn Fein MP Bobby Sands and nine other prisoners of the British state in Northern Ireland in 1981. One year later, she launched, for electoral advantage, the war against Argentina over the Malvinas/Falkland islands, during which the retreating ARA General Belgrano light cruiser was deliberately sunk outside the exclusion zone arbitrarily imposed by the UK, at the cost of 323 lives. Thatcher’s South Atlantic adventure led to 900 deaths and forever scarred the lives of many more.
Portrayed as the “Iron Lady”, Thatcher’s great advantage, which accounted for all her much vaunted victories, was that she only ever confronted enemies that were determined to lose.
This was certainly the case with the Argentine Junta. And most important of all, her assault on the working class enjoyed the active support of the labour and trade union bureaucracy. Electorally she relied on the formation of the Social Democratic Party by a section of the Labour Party to stay in power, but above all she depended on the systematic demobilisation of mass opposition to her government by Labour in alliance with the Trades Union Congress.
This reached its climax in the isolation and betrayal of the year-long miners’ strike in 1984-85, during which some 20,000 miners were injured, 13,000 arrested, 200 imprisoned, almost 1,000 summarily sacked, and two were killed on picket lines.
The miners’ defeat was the signal for the open abandonment by the trade unions and Labour of any defence of the social interests of the working class. “New realism” became the code-word for renouncing any notion of class struggle and workers’ solidarity, the embrace of the “free market” and Labour’s transformation into an overt right-wing party of big business.
Even as Labour was busy adopting “Thatcherism”, however, her perspective was unravelling.
In the absence of any opposition from the Labour Party and the unions, it was left to her own deeply-divided party to unceremoniously dump her in 1990 in order to stave off electoral disaster. By then, the socially destructive consequences of Thatcher’s retrograde economic and social nostrums were all too apparent. In little more than a decade, the conditions of the working class had been sharply reversed in the interests of the financial aristocracy. Whole areas of the country had been turned into industrial wastelands, scarred by poverty and low-wage employment. Britain was well on the way to being transformed into a global centre for the criminal activities of the super-rich—a haven for the likes of Rupert Murdoch and innumerable Russian oligarchs.
Intellectual and cultural life was degraded almost beyond recognition.
In the ensuing years, the unstable foundations of the Thatcherite economic model—the massive accumulation of fictitious capital, unrelated to any development of economic production, and an explosion in credit-fuelled debt—were to produce a series of crises on the global stock markets. Nonetheless, Thatcher’s policies were continued and deepened by Labour under Tony Blair, her self-proclaimed political heir.
Much more can and will be said. But five years on from the 2008 financial crash, with mass austerity the order of the day, any objective appraisal makes clear that Thatcher’s real legacy is the greatest economic and social crisis wrought by capitalism since the first half of the 20th century.
Nothing whatsoever remains of her stu..pid and wholly insincere promises of “popular capitalism”, of Britain as a “home-owning democracy” with prosperity for all secured through the “trickle-down” of wealth and the “miracle of the market.” Posterity will record her as having presided over the initial stages of an on-going putrefaction of bourgeois social and political life.


Julie Hyland and Chris Marsden[/b]

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/04/09/pers-a09.html

britons continue to celebrate Thatcher's death:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS6BZBf8Bi4

she seems to be suffering from anorexia nervosa (kwashiorkor aka extreme malnutrition) if you ask me.

since when did emaciation become sexy - someone give this girl garri and egusi soup to eat so that she can start looking like a human being as opposed to a kwashiorkor victim.

no one outside nigeria gives a sh.it about this world bank lap dog, thats why the western press cut her out of the picture.

the bi.tch needs to get back to what she is good at - collaborating with our enemies to loot nigeria's resources.

britons celebrate Thatcher's death


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfrICObRO1g

manmustwack: I might as well reply this born again micheal Jackson.
BRODA If god say na toilet I go clean,na so e go be.

However I cant see myself singing the praises of someone who hates my kind with zeal.
Na wetin oyinbo do for you wey you take love dem reach dis one?
Haba o boy,u sure say u be black man?
Dis one wey you carry book for head dey promote black man enemy so.
All d tin wey u talk say she do,na wetin she do for any living black soul?
Wake up mehn. Praising oyinbo winch no go help nijah people at all at all.
With all dis knowledge u get abeg come nijah help us run our economy,instead of helping oyinbo dem praise dem own joor.
Wid all dis your long story since morning,U sure say maggi pikin no dey pay u commission?
Na u sabi jare.Carry go.
Plantation don close since 1900s menh.

shymexx: I absolutely love the Brits!!

Proud to be raised on this Island - Nigerians still have a long way to go...

They're a clever lot - you can never pull the wool over their eyes,i'm really pleased with the celebrations, particularly from a lot of the young people who were probably toddlers when her policies were destroying the lives of their parents.

Katsumoto: Stop being so thick in the head. Do you have comprehension or reading problems?

Shymexx stated that Britain was in economic crisis in the 19th century and I countered by stating that how could the richest nation in the world be in economic crisis. How is that singing praises? Just trying to attack my person and not my position just makes you seem immature. Since you can't counter my position, you are now resorting to emotional blackmail.

Katsumoto: You are funny.

Why would empire building not comprise slave trading?

Katsumoto I forgot to respond to the above - look at your above statement - does that sound like someone who had a problem with the british involvement in the transatlantic slave trade? - you are more or less saying that it is a foregone conclusion that an empire should be built on the enslavement of human beings.

Just be honest and admit that you are an apologist and open admirer of the now defunct british empire.

Katsumoto: And was Thatcher responsible for the recession in the 70s and the 30s? One of the side effects of capitalism is boom and bust cycles. Is it better to have $15 over 10 years under socialism/communism or $100 over 10 years even though you may lose $30 during a bust period?

The current bust that we are suffering today could have been avoided had Thatcher not deregulated the financial sector, gutted the manufacturing industry and embarked on massive privatisation. All the problems we are suffering today in the UK are as a direct result of those economic policies.

Katsumoto: You are dodging every question I put to you. You said why isn't Cameron implementing Thatcher policies; I asked you what specific policies and you went off tangent about Thatcher being divisive and racist. What Thatcher policies can Cameron implement? What SPECIFIC policies can Cameron implement that will lead to anarchy? Its a simple and direct question.

I think I will let you be.

Actually all post Thatcher labour govts and now the Cam Mo..ron coalition govt have CONTINUED thatcher's policies - the deregulation of the financial sector was a legacy of Thatcher and BLiar and Cam Mo..ron have not reversed any of these policies despite the fact these very policies resulted in the financial crisis of 2008.

Katsumoto: How can I be an apologist of slave trading? I am merely stating what gave Britain revenue.

In the course of building its empire, it traded in slaves. Why would you then think that empire building would not comprise slave trading?

Stop being so emotional.

You were singing the praises of the British empire without acknowledging the fact that they had an unfair advantage over other nations because they used slave labour to build their wealth.

Giving credit to Britain for being an economic world power in the 18th and 19th century without stating that this was done as a result of exploitation and subjugation of others (particularly the african continent) is to distort history.

Katsumoto: You are funny.

Why would empire building not comprise slave trading?

so you are also an apologist of the transatlantic slave trade?

Katsumoto: What are you talking about? The UK became the richest nation on the back of the industrial revolution and empire building. Britain over took China and India in the 19th century and only surrendered that title to the us in the 20th century.

Why do you think the UK was poor in the 19th century? What text or books are you referring to?

"[b]Britain led the industrial revolution and dominated the European and world economy during the 19th century. It was the major innovator in machinery such as steam engines (for pumps, factories, railway locomotives and steamships), textile equipment, and tool-making. It invented the railway system and built much of the equipment used by other nations. As well it was a leader in international and domestic banking, entrepreneurship, and trade. It built a global British Empire. [/b]After 1840 it abandoned mercantilism and practised "free trade," with no tariffs or quotas or restrictions. The powerful Royal Navy protected its global holdings, while its legal system provided a system for resolving disputes inexpensively.

Between 1870 and 2000, economic output per head of population in Britain rose by 500 per cent, generating a significant rise in living standards. However, from the late 19th century onwards Britain experienced a relative economic decline as other nations such as the United States and Germany caught up. In 1870, Britain's output per head was the second highest in the world after Australia."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_the_United_Kingdom

Cameron can't undo what Thatcher did. And he can't do what as already been done. But at least, he is cutting waste and has ensured that Britain still has access to the money markets unlike some other European nations.

It's funny how you left out the rather important bit about the transatlantic slave trade.

You deserve honorary membership of the Conservative Party for your ability to gloss over britain's unsavoury past.

The British worked black african slaves to death on sugar and tobaccco plantations in the carribean and the enormous wealth generated from the slave trade propelled their industrial revolution - and yet you are full of praises for them - talk about self hatred.

Katsumoto: Thats the difference between you and I.

I don't care about whether Labour, conservatives, or white/black like me. My position is based on how policies affect me. I don't give a rats ar.se about lazy people who are in a first world country and still expecting govt to do everything for them. They have schools close to home with all the comforts in life but keep complaining while kids in Africa are trekking great distances to get to school. There was a story of a kid in SA who has to cross crocodile infested waters to get to school. And you think I have sympathy for people who want government to buy them playstations?

The government provides free health, free schools, option to buy your home or rent at below market price. The government provides welfare benefits for those who don't work. For single mothers who just want to be loose and have kids. Who is supposed to pay for all that?

but you should care because Thatcher's policies did not favour people like you and I whether you want to accept this or not.
She attacked the working class in this country causing mass unemployment - majority of black people in this country are working class.
she was in support of white minority rule in south africa and zimbabwe - as a black man i think it is preposterous of you to be an apologist for someone like this woman.

why do you keep referring to honest hardworking people as lazy? explain to me how the miners were lazy?

Thatcher's love affair with privatisation ushered in the current de regulated employment and financial system that we are suffering in today - it was because of her that there is no such thing as a secure job, and guess what? Cam Mo..ron her heir is continuing her legacy - the current plan of the tories is to completely take away the remaining employment rights of workers such as the right to claim for unfair dismissal, constructive dismissal etc - now you could go in to your jobs and your manager could turn around and fire you for no reason without a penny in compensation - nice isnt it?

What else are we to be thankful to her for? oh yes, she gutted the manufacturing industry in this country - again many working class black people in this country relied on such jobs to take care of their families - her policies left a trail of poverty and despair - how can any sane black person suport such a woman?
Katsumoto - wakey wakey, you are not an upper middle class white guy who attended eton and oxford like David Cam M...oron you are an ordinary joe who is likely to end up as a victim of her draconian economic policies.

Katsumoto: I am a practical man. In the absence of sound ideas from left leaning liberals, who only know how to spend, I am left with support right leaning market oriented policies. Personally, I don't really like Thatcher but I am yet to see any solid ideals from the left and folks like Livingstone, who just wanted to spend. Spend what? If you don't generate revenue, you can't spend it. Isn't it ironic how left leaning liberals always want to spend on social programmes but they cant come up with ideas other than taxing the rich. Not all rich people were born into wealth and it is wrong to assume such and tax them as if they inherited the wealth.

Only lazy folks wait for the govt to do everything; they just expect government to tax hard working people. There are many rich folks in the UK who lived on estates.

only left leaning liberals know how to spend? are you for real? why did the british govt spend over £1trillion bailing out british banks? is that not excessive in your book or is it different when the money is spent on the rich?

why were city of london bankers paid over £6billion in bonuses despite being the architects of the 2008 financial collapse?

Let me get you right - keeping in place necessary safety nets for the most vulnerable peoople in society = bad whilst guaranteeing millions of pounds on payment of already stinking rich city of london banker bonuses = good

shymexx: I still don't understand the love story between Kats and Lady Thatcher!!

I'm shocked!!

He's a wanna be - he thinks that by identifying with the ruling class that will make him one of them, sadly, people from that background always look down on black people whether he wants to accept it or not.

Katsumoto: So she blinded the Brits for 11 years.

It had nothing to do with financial empowerment - owning their own homes or being able to buy shares in BT, BP, and BG? Elections still matter because it gives people choices. If elections didn't matter, the current UK government wouldn't be a coalition. One side would have simply blinded a required majority.

You're not really making any sense - how can you be financially empowered if you've lost your job?

What percentage of the british public own shares in the above mentioned companies? who own the controlling shares in those companies?
How can you say people have a choice when the choice is between two sides of the same coin ? what is the difference between New Labour and the Conservative's economic policies?

The current coaltion was formed because the majority of UK voters were so disillusioned with labour and the conservatives that many voters couldnt even be bothered to turn up to vote for either party , as a result none of the major voters could secure a majority - this oopened the way for a coalition to be created.

Katsumoto: Please link those books to Buhari, IBB, and SAP. What sections of the books deal with this? Obfuscation doesn't work with me. Give me specifics.

The US has a problem with debt and thats why there has been a debate about how to reduce it. Besides US borrowing is more developmental based which is different from greed-based (Africa) or welfare based (Europe). If the US went into recession today, would it have the funds to implement Keynesian type policies? Besides, regardless, of how you spend your money, people lend you money if they believe you can pay. The US can't force China to lend it money.

Hey, while im at it why dont i send you a cheque to buy the books as well - jeez! hey man you're a grown man - I can't spoon feed you with everything - its now your responsibility to educate yourself by accessing those books.

The US IS IN RECESSION - which planet are you living on!!!

Infact not only is the US in recession its economy is on the verge of collapse.

How is it that borrowing in order to fuel a consumer economy can be described as developmental based? The United States has been living way beyond its means for over 30 years - it is only able to do this because of the fact that its currency is the world reserve currency and this has nothign to do with what it generates in terms of revenue.

majority of its manufacturing jobs have been outsourced to the far east and yet it is allowed to keep afloat by printing money and borrowing - if the nigerian govt were practising such an economic policy im sure you would have been up in arms castigating them.

Actually China and other US creditors lend money to the united states because they are obliged to do so under the petro dollar system which i would advise you to educate yourself on.

Katsumoto: No one likes her but she won 3 elections. I guess only 'banksters and plutocrats' voted.

oh your one of those sad individuals who still beleive that elections mean anything?

Did you know that Adolf Hitler won the elections in his country by an overwhelming landslide? you know why? because people were blinded by desperation, poverty and despair, these factors led to the rise of Nazi germany.

Politicians are clever they know how to exploit weaknesses, Thatcher was no exception, why do you think she played the race card in her election campaigns - she knew she could secure a victory if she played on the inherent racism of british people, that didnt mean that she was popular - it just meant that she was smart.

Katsumoto: How do you know Britain had a hand in buhari's removal? Isn't this from the normal conspiracy theory websites or beer parlours? What does Britain have to gain from Nigeria implementing SAP? So who is making Greece, Portugal, Spain implement SAP? You need to start debating with facts and logic and not the usual garbage from conspiracy theory websites. Who made Britain go to the IMF in 1975 and who made them implement SAP.

Governments, just like people, who spend more than they earn resort to borrowing. And creditors will always demand that you cut waste if they are to lend you money.

No this is very much based on fact - if you research the background of IBB you will discover that he is a CIA asset, have you read Hegemony or Survival by Professor (Emeritus) Noam Chomsky of MIT?

How about, Against Empire by Michael Parenti Phd Yale ? no?

The above are hardly what you would call beer parlour or conspiracy theorists given their backgrounds - try educating yourself by reading some of their books and you will find out how the united states and britain use and control our leaders for the benefit of the united states military industrial complex, the multinationals and the western banking cartels.

If we are to follow your logic regarding govts who spend more than they earn why is the united states STILL able to keep its economy afloat despite a staggering national debt of $16 trillion ?

Katsumoto: As usual, conspiracy theories.

SAP was implemented because your leaders (IBB) were corrupt and needed to balance books.

Did Britain itself not implement SAP from the mid 1970s until the early 80s? Britiain went to the IMF in 1975 and it had to go on SAP as well. People who borrow money have to follow the directives of their creditors. Why is China not implementing SAP? If you don't want to be issued directives, then don't borrow.

I knew yoiu wouldnt be able to come back with anything of substance.

If Britain had our interest at heart why did they remove buhari and replace him with a notorious drug baron aka IBB.

Dont you find it strange that Buhari who refused to accept SAP was removed and replaced with pro SAP accolyte IBB?

You make me laugh - how much does the united states owe to its creditors ? how much of that has it paid back ? in fact the real question should be how much CAN it pay back - you better go and preach to the united states who currently owe China over $1trillion dollars which they have no way of ever paying back before you come with your sanctimonious sermon to nigerians.