Kats. You must really love thatcher.

RIP TO THE GREATEST BRITISH PM SINCE SIR WINSTON CHURCHILL.

al-qaeda:
that woman was a war criminal and should have been tried for genocide even at 87

*Interesting*
Al-qaeda, you guys are committing terrorist acts around the world: I thought that with Bin Laden's death, your group would have splintered

adaobi123: Kats. You must really love thatcher.

Not really, I just hate lazy liberals more.

They want everything free. I don't to work hard to support lazy folks.

Their solution to economic issues is to tax the rich. Are all rich people born rich?

Tax the rich so that

1. 16 yr olds can have as many babies as they want

2. So that criminal teenage boys can use prison as a nursery

3. lazy folks can live rent free, collect dole weekly, and drink up at the pub.

Katsumoto:

Thats the difference between you and I.

I don't care about whether Labour, conservatives, or white/black like me. My position is based on how policies affect me. I don't give a rats ar.se about lazy people who are in a first world country and still expecting govt to do everything for them. They have schools close to home with all the comforts in life but keep complaining while kids in Africa are trekking great distances to get to school. There was a story of a kid in SA who has to cross crocodile infested waters to get to school. And you think I have sympathy for people who want government to buy them playstations?

The government provides free health, free schools, option to buy your home or rent at below market price. The government provides welfare benefits for those who don't work. For single mothers who just want to be loose and have kids. Who is supposed to pay for all that?

but you should care because Thatcher's policies did not favour people like you and I whether you want to accept this or not.
She attacked the working class in this country causing mass unemployment - majority of black people in this country are working class.
she was in support of white minority rule in south africa and zimbabwe - as a black man i think it is preposterous of you to be an apologist for someone like this woman.

why do you keep referring to honest hardworking people as lazy? explain to me how the miners were lazy?

Thatcher's love affair with privatisation ushered in the current de regulated employment and financial system that we are suffering in today - it was because of her that there is no such thing as a secure job, and guess what? Cam Mo..ron her heir is continuing her legacy - the current plan of the tories is to completely take away the remaining employment rights of workers such as the right to claim for unfair dismissal, constructive dismissal etc - now you could go in to your jobs and your manager could turn around and fire you for no reason without a penny in compensation - nice isnt it?

What else are we to be thankful to her for? oh yes, she gutted the manufacturing industry in this country - again many working class black people in this country relied on such jobs to take care of their families - her policies left a trail of poverty and despair - how can any sane black person suport such a woman?
Katsumoto - wakey wakey, you are not an upper middle class white guy who attended eton and oxford like David Cam M...oron you are an ordinary joe who is likely to end up as a victim of her draconian economic policies.

'Trickle-down' economics hasn't been a fantastic success in the US and in most other countries. The best taxation system would be that which involves a flat tax rate, and ensuring that multinational corporations pay their fair share of taxes.

Katsumoto:

Not really, I just hate lazy liberals more.

They want everything free. I don't to work hard to support lazy folks.

Their solution to economic issues is to tax the rich. Are all rich people born rich?

Tax the rich so that

1. 16 yr olds can have as many babies as they want

2. So that criminal teenage boys can use prison as a nursery

3. lazy folks can live rent free, collect dole weekly, and drink up at the pub.

Dammnn wasn't expecting this.

You and cap28 are on this. Back and throw.

Katsumoto:

Thats the difference between you and I.

I don't care about whether Labour, conservatives, or white/black like me. My position is based on how policies affect me. I don't give a rats ar.se about lazy people who are in a first world country and still expecting govt to do everything for them. They have schools close to home with all the comforts in life but keep complaining while kids in Africa are trekking great distances to get to school. There was a story of a kid in SA who has to cross crocodile infested waters to get to school. And you think I have sympathy for people who want government to buy them playstations?

The government provides free health, free schools, option to buy your home or rent at below market price. The government provides welfare benefits for those who don't work. For single mothers who just want to be loose and have kids. Who is supposed to pay for all that?

He, he, he. I think we should just ship all these folks to Greece where benefits outstrip productivity. Thanks to that lady Britain 'knows' how to get 'itself' out of recessions. It was tough then but it will prove positive in decades to come.

cap28:

but you should care because Thatcher's policies did not favour people like you and I whether you want to accept this or not.
She attacked the working class in this country causing mass unemployment - majority of black people in this country are working class.
she was in support of white minority rule in south africa and zimbabwe - as a black man i think it is preposterous of you to be an apologist for someone like this woman.

why do you keep referring to honest hardworking people as lazy? explain to me how the miners were lazy?

Thatcher's love affair with privatisation ushered in the current de regulated employment and financial system that we are suffering in today - it was because of her that there is no such thing as a secure job, and guess what Cam Mo..ron her heir is continuing her legacy - the current plan of the tories is to completely take away the remaining employment rights of workers such as the right to claim for unfair dismissal, constructive dismissal etc - now you could go in to your jobs and your manager could turn around and fire you for no reason without a penny in compensation - nice isnt it?

What else are we to be thankful to her for? oh yes, she gutted the manufacturing industry in this country - again many working class black people in this country relied on such jobs to take care of their families - her policies left a trail of poverty and despair - how can any sane black person suport such a woman?
Katsumoto - wakey wakey, you are not an upper middle class white guy who attended eton and oxford like David Cam slowpoke you are an ordinary joe who is likely to end up as a victim of her draconian economic policies.

I don't support her foreign policies in Africa and the Falklands.

Don't project your life or the lives of others on me. You don't know where I went to school, so don't presume to think I went to some funny schools.

Miners may not have been lazy but they were expecting to be kept in jobs in a declining industry. Many people have to change jobs at least 3 times in their lives. There are executives in the US who work in Walmart today. No one has a right to just society to just maintain their lives for them. If you are not ready to change then don't complain when change comes along.

Reference:

He, he, he. I think we should just ship all these folks to Greece where benefits outstrip productivity. Thanks to that lady Britain 'knows' how to get 'itself' out of recessions. It was tough then but it will prove positive in decades to come.

Everyone is rioting in Greece today. They didn't think their country would sink with many dodging fair taxes and the government giving expensive pensions. Any country where folks retire at 50 will be bankrupt, especially when Europeans live until 100. And greeks study until their 30s. Work for 20 yrs and then collect pension for 40 years. Who is going to pay for it?

RIP

I am still waiting for Cap28 or any other left leaning liberals articulate how they would have dealt with the situation in 1979 if elected:

1. A decline in the UK mining industry

2. High inflation

3. High debt (the labour government had borrowed from the IMF)

4. High taxes from Labour (98% marginal rate)

I need actual ideas. Thatcher has done her bit; lets hear what you would have done.

Shymexx would tax the rich but how do you increase marginal tax rate at 98%? And we know that above a certain tax rate, tax revenue goes down.

Katsumoto:

Everyone is rioting in Greece today. They didn't think their country would sink with many dodging fair taxes and the government giving expensive pensions. Any country where folks retire at 50 will be bankrupt, especially when Europeans live until 100. And greeks study until their 30s. Work for 20 yrs and then collect pension for 40 years. Who is going to pay for it?

Word!! The retirement age here in the US is 65 years.
California has the same problem as Greece. The state govt, for a long time, granted 'fat' pensions to retired state workers. In fact some state workers worked in 2 different agencies, and were therefore, drawing multiple pensions. That's a major reason why the State of California's finances is in the red.

Katsumoto:

I don't support her foreign policies in Africa and the Falklands.

Don't project your life or the lives of others on me. You don't know where I went to school, so don't presume to think I went to some funny schools.

Miners may not have been lazy but they were expecting to be kept in jobs in a declining industry. Many people have to change jobs at least 3 times in their lives. There are executives in the US who work in Walmart today. No one has a right to just society to just maintain their lives for them. If you are not ready to change then don't complain when change comes along.

Katsumoto, I assume you're Nigerian. As a result I believe that it's her policies affecting Nigeria (and Africa, generally) that should concern you most. At least that's the case as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not in denial as to her accomplishments in domestic policy. Looking at foreign policy, however, as an African, speaking from the African perspective, I am inclined to go with cap28 and Shymmex on this issue. It is a well-documented fact that the "trickle down" economic policies embodied in the Washington Consensus drafted by Thatcher in conjuction with her "political spouse" Ronald Reagan and imposed on African/3^rd world countries (Nigeria inclusive) wiped out the middle class, institutionalised corruption, converted Nigeria to a near narco-state and set us back by decades. I don't, as an African, give a damn about her domestic economic policies. I only care about how those policies affected African countries (which, as history shows us, was a negative effect).

As far as I'm concerned, Thatcher is a villain.

Katsumoto:

Everyone is rioting in Greece today. They didn't think their country would sink with many dodging fair taxes and the government giving expensive pensions. Any country where folks retire at 50 will be bankrupt, especially when Europeans live until 100. And greeks study until their 30s. Work for 20 yrs and then collect pension for 40 years. Who is going to pay for it?

Well the Germans are there to foot the bill as always until they eventually demand Athens become a colony then all hell breaks loose.

The lady had foresight. Before the era of globalisation she had unshackled the economy and trimmed the fat. Yes a lot of industries went but who could compete with the ultra conservative asian tigers. Who can compete with them today.

HNosegbe:

Katsumoto, I assume you're Nigerian. As a result I believe that it's her policies affecting Nigeria (and Africa, generally) that should concern you most. At least that's the case as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not in denial as to her accomplishments in domestic policy. Looking at foreign policy, however, as an African, speaking from the African perspective, I am inclined to go with cap28 and Shymmex on this issue. It is a well-documented fact that the "trickle down" economic policies embodied in the Washington Consensus drafted by Thatcher in conjuction with her "political spouse" Ronald Reagan and imposed on African/3^rd world countries (Nigeria inclusive) wiped out the middle class, institutionalised corruption, converted Nigeria to a near narco-state and set us back by decades. I don't, as an African, give a damn about her domestic economic policies. I only care about how those policies affected African countries (which, as history shows us, was a negative effect).

As far as I'm concerned, Thatcher is a villain.

Hinging your entire position on an assumption is not the best strategy in a debate. You have to make me 'Nigerian' before I can see your position is illogical.

I am a firm believer in people being responsible for their own fates. I don't buy the 'lets blame those in Washington' for our problems. Never mind that Africa was ruled by incompetent and greedy military people, its the foreigners that are at fault. So who is to blame for Spain, Portugal, Greece, Cyprus implementing austere (SAP) policies? You are at the mercy of creditors when you mismanage your economy.

So why has the US not imposed its will on China, Brazil? Did Brazil not call the IMF's bluff in the 80s?

Reference:

Well the Germans are there to foot the bill as always until they eventually demand Athens become a colony then all hell breaks loose.

The lady had foresight. Before the era of globalisation she had unshackled the economy and trimmed the fat. Yes a lot of industries went but who could compete with the ultra conservative asian tigers. Who can compete with them today.

Everything is fine as long as there is a mugu to pay for incompetence and mismanagement.

China holds Japan and South Korea by the balls today because it can mine rare earths more economically than anyone else. There is rare earth in the US but it is not being mined because it is expensive. Should the US government pay the mining industry to mine rare earth? If an industry is in decline, then you have to let it go.

Katsumoto:

Hinging your entire position on an assumption is not the best strategy in a debate. You have to make me 'Nigerian' before I can see your position is illogical.

I am a firm believer in people being responsible for their own fates. I don't buy the 'lets blame those in Washington' for our problems. Never mind that Africa was ruled by incompetent and greedy military people, its the foreigners that are at fault. So who is to blame for Spain, Portugal, Greece, Cyprus implementing austere (SAP) policies? You are at the mercy of creditors when you mismanage your economy.

So why has the US not imposed its will on China, Brazil? Did Brazil not call the IMF's bluff in the 80s?

That was very brave from the Brazilians. The IMF and some other Western financial institutions, in most cases, bribed the govt officials in 3rd World countries, and convinced such leaders of a phantom "paradise"; if they opened up their economy to such loans and massive privatisation of some crucial State assets.
Therefore, I equally blame our leaders and the Western Economic Hit Men (EHMs) for the economic mess in most 3rd world countries.

Katsumoto: Hinging your entire position on an assumption is not the best strategy in a debate. You have to make me 'Nigerian' before I can see your position is illogical.

This IS a Nigerian forum... Issues here are discussed from a NIGERIAN perspective. My point is, from a NIGERIAN, nay African perspective there's nothing to celebrate about her. I'm not excusing the key role played by IBB (in fact IBB is still quite fond of Thatcher, isn't that interesting?) as being responsible for the decimation of the middle class in the 80s.

I'm calling her a villain because she NEVER spoke out against apartheid. Because she called Mandela a terrorist. Because she seized the Falklands from Argentina. Not because of her domestic economic policies.

I agree with the rest of your post.

CFCfan:

That was very brave from the Brazilians. The IMF and some other Western financial institutions, in most cases, bribed the govt officials in 3rd World countries, and convinced such leaders of a phantom "paradise"; if they opened up their economy to such loans and massive privatisation of some crucial State assets.
Therefore, I equally blame our leaders and the Western Economic Hit Men (EHMs) for the economic mess in most 3rd world countries.

In the history of nations, when has a foreign country ever had the interest of another country at heart? When two nations checkmate one another and game recognise game, they collaborate to cheat weaker nations. If weaker nations understand this fact, then they would understand that stronger nations don't want whats best for them.

Accusing other nations of working against you economically is like accusing other nations of not allowing you to win medals at the Olympics.

Brazil was able to do that for many reasons
1. It knew the IMF didn't have its interest at heart
2. Brazil had started developing manufacturing sectors that could rival Western nations. Apart from commodities, Brazil is a leader in automobiles and aerospace. What is African specializing in if not materialism and greed?

HNosegbe:

This IS a Nigerian forum... Issues here are discussed from a NIGERIAN perspective. My point is, from a NIGERIAN, nay African perspective there's nothing to celebrate about her. I'm not excusing the key role played by IBB (in fact IBB is still quite fond of Thatcher, isn't that interesting?) as being responsible for the decimation of the middle class in the 80s.

I'm calling her a villain because she NEVER spoke out against apartheid. Because she called Mandela a terrorist. Because she seized the Falklands from Argentina. Not because of her domestic economic policies.

I agree with the rest of your post.

I agree with you. In the context of that, she is a villain. Particularly for the South African situation.

Who is magnet catcher

Katsumoto:

Which jobs were shipped in the early 80s?

Can you articulate how you would have addressed the problems in the 1970s?

So you now have super powers to be able to tell my race? Joker

When you can't have a decent debate, you resort to insults? Who does that if not aggressive dolts.

Aggressive dolt? Listen to me you bombastic little englander (since you aren't African but find time to post comments on NL), nobody is leaving your little england to head back to their country. London is now 47% black and ethnic minority so you can fume all you want but heck maggie b1atch is gone for good.

And looking at the polls, if there was an election today, you and your right wing nutters are heading out of number 10. Neanderthal supremacists my jolly behind.

eGuerrilla: Thatcher was bad news for Black people in Britain, period!

If you ask me; I would make bold to state that a lot of the dysfunctionality which currently plagues our inner-cities were sown during the Thatcherite era.

Never mind the miners, it was the "sink schools" created from old grammar schools, in the 70s and 80s, which shaped the generation of black youth (now in their 50s) responsible for the single-mother-baby-father syndrome.
I know for a fact that Thatcher broke the teachers unions first, by flooding their ranks with ex-army types who were summarily dispatched to work in some of those failing schools. As long as they were populated mainly by the immigration class, this "Iron Lady" looked the other way.

Sure enough, folks got saddled with council houses, at a time when access to higher education was limited and employment opportunities were few and far between. Do I celebrate this small win for all it was worth, even as I now recognise the price we paid for our complacency, yes!

It would, of course, be wrong not to give some credit to Thatcher for helping engender conditions which fueled the political consciousness that birthed our first generation of black MPs. I could go on, but to what end?

No love lost here, I'm afraid

+10000000000 likes

Best comment on the thread and succinctly put..

Thanks, sir..

Katsumoto:

In the history of nations, when has a foreign country ever had the interest of another country at heart? When two nations checkmate one another and game recognise game, they collaborate to cheat weaker nations. If weaker nations understand this fact, then they would understand that stronger nations don't want whats best for them.

Accusing other nations of working against you economically is like accusing other nations of not allowing you to win medals at the Olympics.

Brazil was able to do that for many reasons
1. It knew the IMF didn't have its interest at heart
2. Brazil had started developing a manufacturing sectors that could rival Western nations. Apart from commodities, Brazil is a leader in automobiles and aerospace. What is African specializing in if not materialism and greed?

The key difference at the bolded is that no citizen experiences a drastic increase in the cost of living during the olympics; while the opposite was true of the SAPs designed by the IMF and her allies. Economics shouldn't necessarily be a zero-sum game- we can all gain from each other.

I agree with you that African nations need to revamp their manufacturing sectors though.

toothpaste:


Aggressive dolt? Listen to me you bombastic little englander (since you aren't African but find time to post comments on NL), nobody is leaving your little england to head back to their country. London is now 47% black and ethnic minority so you can fume all you want but heck maggie b1atch is gone for good.

And looking at the polls, if there was an election today, you and your right wing nutters are heading out of number 10. Neanderthal supremacists my jolly behind.

Well there is no election today.

I didn't advocate that foreigners leave England. I was merely explaining why it is silly to complain about policies in a foreign country when you are clearly running from your own.

And I wouldn't brag about that statistics of minorities in London; look closely and you will understand why.

Katsumoto:
I am a practical man. In the absence of sound ideas from left leaning liberals, who only know how to spend, I am left with support right leaning market oriented policies. Personally, I don't really like Thatcher but I am yet to see any solid ideals from the left and folks like Livingstone, who just wanted to spend. Spend what? If you don't generate revenue, you can't spend it. Isn't it ironic how left leaning liberals always want to spend on social programmes but they cant come up with ideas other than taxing the rich. Not all rich people were born into wealth and it is wrong to assume such and tax them as if they inherited the wealth.

Only lazy folks wait for the govt to do everything; they just expect government to tax hard working people. There are many rich folks in the UK who lived on estates.

You're starting to sound more like David Lammy than a Diane Abbott or Chuka Umunna... This isn't about being practical, it's about the virtues of a community based society and what a normal society with have and have-nots should be... You don't have to destroy the poor to create wealth - a functional society needs both the poor and rich to be able to function adequately to the normal standard... However, when a society becomes elite orientated, with the poor being left out the equation - then you'll disenfranchise the biggest demographic of the population...

Lady Thatcher's policies is the reason why the UK became a crime-ridden hell-hole with so many disenfranchised poor people and minorities... More than three generations of black folks have been lost due to the seed she sowed in the 80s....

Also, how do you expect the poor to pay taxes when the factories they worked in were closed down??

CFCfan:

The key difference at the bolded is that no citizen experiences a drastic increase in the cost of living during the olympics; while the opposite was true of the SAPs designed by the IMF and her allies. Economics shouldn't necessarily be a zero-sum game- we can all gain from each other.

I agree with you that African nations need to revamp their manufacturing sectors though.

It is impossible for everyone to be a winner. For you to win, someone has to lose.

For everyone to win,

1. Each country has to be uniformly populated

2. You have to value each good and service the same

3. Demand and supply must be balanced


60 years ago, western nations were winning against China. Today China is winning. When will Africa start winning? And what will it take for Africa to win? Those are the rights questions to ask. If Africa doesn't change, it will continue to be a loser.

cap28:
He's a wanna be - he thinks that by identifying with the ruling class that will make him one of them, sadly, people from that background always look down on black people whether he wants to accept it or not.

However, those making black people proud today aren't even from the elite-class - they're all from poor backgrounds... and the funniest thing is that the children of these pseudo-elitists black folks never make it beyond middle-class level, that's the honest truth... They also always end up as faggits and crackheads!!

adaobi123: Kats. You must really love thatcher.

Kats is David Lammy reincarnated in a Nigerian body...

I have read a few posts from Maggie lovers on here. Guess what, Thatcher was at the forefront of perpetuating apartheid, so if you are black, you must be filled with self hate to think of her as anything other than.. ..anyway, best not speak the ill of the dead.

As to someone on here claiming to hate liberals, if it wasn't for those same liberals, slave trade will still be carried out today. You would still be treated like a second class citizen wherever you are, Naija or abroad. You think you are treated badly now, shame you can't see what obstacles you would have faced in life.

Some of you so called haters of liberalism might want to read up on the anti-abolitionist movement and then see the rights that the (liberal) unions have fought for on your behalf.