₦airaland Forum

Donvitalis:
Terrible!

1m isn't the minimum at First Bank. I know.

I wouldn't know if banks have the authority to put a cap on the amount for TBills.

Don’t know about about first bank but zenith bank minimum has always been 1m

dipoolowoo:
CBN Sells Fresh N133bn T-Bills Today, May Cut Rates
https://businesspost.ng/economy/cbn-sells-fresh-n133bn-t-bills-today-may-cut-rates/

So people from OMO will now do tbills further driving rates down?
Interesting times

Today is primary market day, I’m waiting to see how bids for today goes.
With what is happening, I don’t know if it’s possible for Nigeria govt to stop tbills, because I’m thinking that would really be the next option for cbn.

ahiboilandgas:
I have tried several to understudy very rich and succefuly enterprenures to act as a guide and fellow the route but I end up disappointed it either they where in goverment in the 1980 or friends to military dictators or smugglers ( max air owner) or loan deflauter like capital oil and rahammaniya or subsidy scammers or yahoo people or treasury looter

I said it earlier that hardly would you find a legit Nigerian billionaire. Either they are involved in shady practices or they made their billions off the government. I don’t think Nigeria economy is that robust to produce legit billionaires from scratch. If you are looking for a business mentor, you have to look outside the country.
If Nigeria govt withdraws it’s massive support for Dangote today, he will fall back to millionaire

DigitalMallam:
More facts are beginning to emerge for the reason behind CBN banned on OMO for Nigerians.
Reports has it that out of the $40billion external reserve, $17b belongs to foreign investors. Recall topmost on Emefiele's STI is keeping the exchange rate at 360 (avoid devaluation). Hence CBN want those that can bring in the $. And only allow banks in case foreign investors decide to sell at secondary mkt.
The effect of this is that corporate bodies and wealthy individuals will be forced to do TBill which will be offered at lower rates

What do you mean by lower rates

ahiboilandgas:
this billion where borrowed by the govt to pay subsidies ...the govt earned around 3.6 trillion and spent 5 trillion so the 1.4 trillion was borrowed continuesly over several years ..we have even borrowed against our future earning and used it to pay consumption against building cash returning infastructure .....we will pay dearly for this with our kids ....we are even paying 460m dollars for non working cctv cameras .....we have big infastructure gap....solution increase the earnings of state via tax hikes or increasing the number of tax payers or increase crude export to 5m barrel or add more minimal for export ....
But the black man is too backward to proggress

Wow

ahiboilandgas:
currently firm are in neck to neck competition for the small margin left and unsubsidized product ...we currently move around 15m litres of aviation fuel annually .from 6m litres...but this firms borrowed billions to build a huge infastructure with petrol omport/subsidies bussiness as the main cash cow ....now pmb destroy their projection it will be like that for 8 years to come no body planned or predicted it ....some are already out of bussiness with billion in loan hanging with amcon like capital oil,D Jones ,spog etc other with distribution outlets (still surving)...others like falawiyo.rolling outlet with enyo to survive....dangote planing the final burial of the bussiness ...me am divesting into bdc ,tb ,property and a phd to survive the unsult....otedola out already moving to zenon power plant (more reliable),adenuga abandoning conoil to focus on glo ,first bank and beger,ifanyi uba divesting to senate......

So if these billions these men have been taking is now being channeled into the economy why are we not feeling the effects? Why is the govt taking more debts?

nofundforme:
I didn't see that as an argument, except you argue with facts. I only made a correction base on his notion.Some acts are not justifiable by just giving it a name that is good to your hearing. Smartness and criminality are not the same.

Well this a case of smartness not criminality. That’s it. It cannot become a crime because you don’t like it!

Nigsrdumb:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1187793288780288001.html

Interesting thread. So looks like this wony have any effects on tbills rate afterall, might just affect FX rate? It means one of these will happen

nofundforme:
Don't use that to console yourself. That's how u are wired thinking that everybody is like u. I think from your analogy so far, one can deduce that in this country there is nothing like corruption, rather it is smartness. Do I look like a religious person to u?

There is no need continuing this argument, enough points have been raised by both sides for you to decide where to stand on so don’t go about calling anyone who doesn’t agree with you criminal. Deal with your emotions yourself. Let’s not derail the thread any further

ahiboilandgas:
yes margins are down since the main product pms 50m litres daily is out of reach to firms .they depend on deseal ,kero ,jet fuel but this product are not subsidies any more...only petrol and pmb has kick them out of the import bussiness and give just 20 percent of their capacity as allocation ...total down stream declare loss,MRS oil plc too...the future is uncertain

Interesting times ahead

nofundforme:
You are pained? Truth is always bitter. It is people like you that is making this country corrupt. Keep on looking for a name to call your criminal act. No matter what you call it, you can't play karma. This is not religious section, but it is a section where u can show your criminal prowess??

People like you will be the first to grab the opportunity if they see it. Once Nigerians are not benefiting from something they call it all sorts of names, then when they get it they keep quiet. No one talks while eating over here. There is nothing criminal about it. Your religion rather is the biggest problem of Nigeria

ahiboilandgas:
it not for us small players ...omo auction na for big players,financial company etc

If the rates don’t increase after this policy I give up.

ahiboilandgas:
no buhari don cast that level using aquila project (gprs) to track trucks movements and ppra refuse to give import permit /allocation since 2015 . Na only nnpc they import and give depots then do under recovery and one complex crude swap scheme ...so no money is changing hands.....some of the subsidy scammers are now legit with depots and stations and govt is doing bussiness with them as they have no option...look at the crude swap list dem plenty some na even semi illirates own it

Lol, could this be one of the reasons otedola sold his company? Lol
According to this report though we still pay subsidy despite the fuel pump increase so who is benefiting from this?
https://www.theafricareport.com/418/nigeria-the-cost-of-cheaper-petrol/

igbizen:
Am waiting on discussions regarding the new CBN letters about individual and domestic Coporate bodies not investing in Tbills- what’s the meaning, the way forward for us on this platform?

Is it not only about debtors?

zamirikpo:
Not that I am rich ooh.....but the reason why we end up in mediocrity is because we spend too much time doing illegal and fraudulent things that will never last.

Shebi CBN has stopped it. How much did they now make.....if the cbn decides to prosecute them.

Pls Occupy urself with legitimate means of income that can stand the test of time and even grow far and wide.

Again, It is not illegitimate. What I’m saying is cbn and govt should stop creating these weak systems without any checks and balances where people could easily profit off because you can’t stop people from profiting off a weak, irregulated system. This mostly happens in Nigeria but not particular to Nigeria.
Now that cbn has blocked this one they will simply move to the next one which is buying tbills by proxy.
Most super rich people in Nigeria are 60% or more, made by government money. There’s actually less than 10% billionaires in Nigeria who made money without profiting off our weak economic policies. I’m glad cbn is making these changes but more still needs to be done.

ahiboilandgas:
Scamming the system or playing smart when loop hole arise is criminal and unjust but most billionaires in non inventive country like Nigeria became rich through such scheme .....exmple is the fuel subsidy baazza...how can a nation with porous boaders and corrupt customs guarantee that for ever litre of petrol on it shores imported it will pay the difference ....and Neigbouring nation are selling at premium non subsided rate

But they are still paying subsidy and people are still cashing out lol.

Wickedtruths:
Have you read the CBN Act? No. You're relying on hearsay and incorrect information. Have you ever heard of delegated legislation?

Read the CBN Act as well as the BOFIA Act. They provide clarity as to the functions and powers of the CBN.
Read sections 30 and 33 of the CBN Act.
They can make regulations and ascribe criminal liability to defaulters.

There’s no need continuing with this argument. At this point you have to believe whatever you choose to believe while I do mine. It’s very obvious you don’t want to learn. Gracias

Wickedtruths:
Which loan?
Regular loans by financial institutions or this special Anchor Borrowers loan that is the subject of discussion?

Or you think they are the same thing?

That's why I told you to stop analysing issues like a petty trader.

You were talking about people using grants to carry prostitutes and also people not being able to repay their loans in that post, maybe you should read again.
You also mentioned cbn taking the idea of blocking the loophole to other areas. Do you even understand the points you make here?

Wickedtruths:
But the law against diversion of agric loans isn't explicit until they write it in your native language, abi?

You said if it was a crime, they'll be arrested. I pointed out examples of narcotics and traffic offences. Offenders aren't deterred.

Someone told you earlier that cbn does not have power to make criminal laws did you miss that?

Wickedtruths:
You obviously still don't understand what I'm saying.

Even if it means using drawing stones and sticks to explain it to you, I'm willing to.

Someone using loan to buy tbills and someone unable to repay his loans, is it same thing? Oga you no get talk biko

Wickedtruths:
Carrying drugs is illegal. Does it stop people from carrying drugs?

The fact that people pass one-way and don't get arrested doesn't mean one-way driving is illegal.

You lack the capacity to state what is legal or illegal, that's the function of the regulators. They have stated what is illegal in their regulations.

If you are ignorant of that fact or you want to be a scapegoat to test the spirit and letters of the law, that is entirely a different ball game.

Millions of people have been convicted for drug offenses in Nigeria, the law against carrying drugs is very explicit. Stop comparing apple and oranges.
These are entirely two different things. Stop arguing blindly

igbizen:
And mind you while I was enjoying it for the first year, some of my colleagues were like it is illegal, you will be arrested. It was too late when they discovered that it was actually legal. They only did for two months b4 the policy was revised. Meanwhile some of us don use an buy land and other things... be there shouting it is illegal

The rich get rich by taking advantage of certain govt loopholes while the poor masses keep whining, if we begin to look at Dangote’s wealth I can assure you he made billions from certain loopholes created by the government. I remember the case of Amazon and US post office, it doesn’t happen only in Nigeria it happens everywhere

Wickedtruths:
That's how one man used grants given to him for research to be carrying prostitutes.

Some people think they are smart, until they get into trouble and use all they've made to fund litigation.

This idea of not allowing debtors buy Tbills, they would soon extend it to several areas. That's when you would see that bankruptcy laws are very much active in Nigeria.

When your loan term has expired and the loan remains unpaid or unserviced, when can't buy fuel with your ATM card, people would start understanding that actions have consequences.

LSETF by Lagos State Government gave billions of Naira in loans to entrepreneurs in Lagos. As at today, they have more than 3,100 defaulters. Lots of the people got loans of around 5M each.

You always end up confusing yourself because to be frank you don’t have any point, you have left the main issue now to talk about people who couldn’t repay their loans

zamirikpo:
FRAUD......its simple fraud.
Even the banks are involved because their are certain requirements and follow ups that should be done. But they compromise.

Agric loan is Agric loan. By the letters of the law.

All this people talking about whether it's a loophole, illegal or immoral are the same people that voted bubu.

If it’s a fraud arrest them and take the to court, it will not be a fraud because you decide it is. Most of you calling it fraud would still engage in it if you had the opportunity. That’s the typical Nigerian self righteous hypocrite for you

Wickedtruths:
Did you see the CBN regulations I posted in the previous page?
Did you see where they wrote prosecution there?
Can they prosecute you for something that is not illegal?

Don't carry private sector ideas into government business. They are different scenarios entirely. Hillary Clinton was nearly boiled alive cos she used her private emails for government business.

Is that a law? How many people have been prosecuted? Why didn’t cbn choose prosecuting defaulters instead of just closing the loophole like they are doing now?
If you take this kind of thing to court the judge will just throw it out, this is why EFCC keeps losing most of their cases.

igbizen:
This same thing played out some years back when people were round tripping on dollar and naira.

Exactly what I just wanted to say, since he’s saying private and public as if the loans are not repayable.
Was round tripping illegal? How many people were prosecuted for that? I mean government officials including Buharis aides that made huge money from it?

Wickedtruths:
Stop talking about what you don't know, it's been illegal since the scheme started in 2016.

The CBN's Regulation, specifically the Anchor Borrowers Guidelines as regards the Anchor Borrowers Scheme regulates it. See the attached pictures, those are the penalties for diversion both by disbursing institutions and loan beneficiaries.

Maybe your next argument would be that diversion of funds is immoral but not illegal.

The question here is despite this terms (which is not a law) why do people still divert these funds? That’s what I’ve been saying, weak system!
I can decide to get this loan, let’s say get 100m, invest in tbills till I’m caught, get blacklisted by cbn from further interventions and still repay and keep my profit. The prosecution here is vague.
Without the recent policies by CBN it will be business as usual.
CBN is now trying to stop anyone that collected this loans from investing in govt instruments which is what they should have done much earlier. Blame cbn for creating the loophole not those that benefitted from it.
Do you know how many billions banks make from loopholes?

Wickedtruths:
Is it government money they used to float the BDC or which kind watery example be this? Different sectors, different regulations, same regulator. Is that too hard for you to comprehend?

I think I now perfectly understand your point of view. You see things from a basic trading perspective as in buying and selling. You don't factor in regulatory compliance . Don't carry that mentality into regulated businesses and sectors.

You don't just buy the BDC license, you acquire the underlying legal entity. It involves change of directors, secretary, CBN's approval, etc. I have a colleague who just acquired a microfinance license for a fintech after the back and forth with CBN. You think it's like buying spare part in Ochanja market or Ladipo? Okay na.

Go and sell BDC to someone who gets involved in terrorism financing. Your last seen on Nairaland go long like anything.

Is the loan free? Do you realize most people can also use these loans for what it’s intended for and yet fails but then they are still bound to repay the loans! Once you collect a loan it becomes part of your asset!
Do you realize it is also illegal to sell bdc license? Besides I’m just using that as an example so let’s not dwell on that.

Wickedtruths:
You obviously don't understand what I've been saying.

You're arguing that it is immoral and I'm telling you that based on our laws, it is fraudulent and illegal. Or is fraud immoral but not illegal?

What laws makes it illegal? While haven’t cbn seized those monies instead of now regulating it since it’s illegal?

It’s also just like someone getting BDC license from cbn and selling to another person. Is it stealing? I can list several similar instances of these

Wickedtruths:
Let me make some things clear to you. I'll be very blunt.

1. I didn't partake in MMM, i don't do ponzi schemes or 2+2=5 nonsense.
2. What you call exploiting the system is actually a crime. If you don't understand what misappropriation of funds is, that's your business.
3. If I, you or anyone engages in it, such a person is a thief.

You are taking about offshore accounts to avoid paying taxes. You definitely do not understand how taxes work. Tax evasion is a crime, tax avoidance is not. I bet you can't tell the difference. If I tell you contract splitting is a crime now, I'm sure you'll start shouting.

So, my friend, I'm not speaking out of emotions, it's my integrity and conscience as a law abiding citizen. The fact that everyone commits a crime doesn't legitimise crime.

You ended up making it about your self and your integrity so that’s why we said it is immoral and not illegal!
Tax evasion is a crime, tax avoidance is not?

Anyway tax avoidance or whatever you call it is also immoral

And please these are loans that are repayable, it does not mean they get the money for free!