₦airaland Forum

golpen: Sometimes I just think God has decided to punish them with their own intended ignorance, by making them feel they understand what is not logical to a sensible kindergarten. They tend to protect it by their various means and then it brings them to the jungle of confusion, trying to get out of the web trap, then they fumble... Imagine cleanvessel and read this.

I thought you have said bye-bye before. Saying good evening after you have said good night? Muslims are fond of lying.


Have you seen from the above bible and quran quotes that no prophet is expected from the lineage of Ishmael? What is your comment?

''There is no god save allah and Muhammad is his prophet'' so is the islamic confession.

That shows only Muhammad is the prophet of allah. All other prophets are from the God of Isaac. This is the reason God of Isaac's revelations are revealed in a totally different manner. No falling down unconscious, no sweating or bearing revelations with great trouble as did Muhammad.

Do you know why it is difficult to call ''God'' in islam but allah? It is because they are not the same spiritual Being. The Arabs have a long history of calling their idols ''Allah''.

Ishmael was too young to know the religion of Abraham very well when he was sent away. His mother was an Egyptian who came from idolaterous background. His mother also mary an Egyptian woman for him. We know Egyptians to be idol worshipers.

That was the reason the Arabs were idol worshipers. They inherited idol worship from their father, Ishmael.

If you say idol worship came to Arabs after Ishmael, who brought it? The truth is that Ishmael was brought up under the envirolment of idol worship - his mother, his wife.

Satan saw the above as a good opportunity to deceive the Arabs who had no knowledge of the true God and make himself God due to their ignorance by introducing islam. Most of what they were doing to worship their allah before islam are still being practiced in islam today because it is the same allah. Satan could not have done that in Istrael. Istrael had knowledge of the true God they have been following.

Abraham ensured Isaac did not marry a wife who would turn him away from the true God.

@ dareabiola98

I thouht you said you want to stop arguments on this thread.

Those who still practiced Moses Law after Jesus had come were those who didn't believe in Him. They were wrong for continuing practicing what has been corrected.

I maintain there was no need for the quran after Jesus had corrected men's errors in the Torah, called the Gospel (Injeel). Your quran says Jesus is faultless (Quran 19:19). This means His sayings and deed were faultlessly correct. Then tell me, why would Muhammad be raised as a prophet to correct what is correct?

Since allah said Muhammad should consult the Scripture (Bible), which some people were following correctly, that shows the existing Scripture was correct, hence allah was referring to it. Why the double standard created by the quran?

Let me add this: Muhammad being sent to the whole world is a deception. Muhammad was from the descent of Ishmael according to muslims. God never had a covenant of prophethood with Ishmael but Isaac. This is why all previous prophets, including Jesus were discendants of Isaac. Why would God go back on His word to appoint Muhammad as a prophet?

Quran 29:27
And We bestowed on him Isaac and Jacob and We ESTABLISHED the Prophethood and the SCRIPTURE among his seed and We gave him reward in the world and lo in the Hereafter he verily is among the righteous.

Genesis 17:21
But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at the set time in the next year.

dareabiola98: Why did God give Moses the scripture when he was still gonna give Jesus.All prophet before the were sent to the world but with 1 main objective and to mainly a particular set of people until Muhammad was sent for the whole of mankind.I didn't want to reply anymore because all you want to do is just keep arguing,even when u find truth,u'd still keep arguing still the truth brushes out of your mind.I hope u spend this much time on ur bible.Research the bible.Download a bible in hebrew,download word translator,and check the origin of each word.It is as hectic. As that because it is HELL we're talkin about here.And download different explanation or encylopaedia of the bible.Study really!!!...And fyi,God never set double standard,U did.All prophets came with the message:
Don't take into worship anyother God but the 1 true God,Follow Me and U shall see the light,Do this and u shall gain heaven.Obey me and God will be pleased with you.

There would not have been need for Jesus to come if the Torah was not practiced incorrectly. Jesus came to correct the errors of the past.

There was no need for Muhammad to raise the quran because, according to allah, there was the Scripture on ground that some people were practicing correctly. All that was needed at that time was for Muhammad to get the original copy and practice it as required instead of bringing the quran, which denies many things in the Scripture allah referred him to. Manipulation is quite visible somewhere.

I stronly believe islam was an introduction of the Devil to bring trouble back to the world. True, the whole of the OT is full of war. There was no peace.

Jesus came to introduce peace by teaching that fighting and vengeance are sins. He went further to say that '' he who kills by the sword will die by the sword''.

By SWORD, Jesus meant get the word of God. The word of God is a spiritual sword. You need training in the Bible before you can get the meaning correctly.

Ephesian 6:17
And take the helmet of salvation, and the SWORD of the Spirit, which is the WORD of God.

Hebrews 4:12
For the WORD of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any two-edged SWORD, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

From the above it is clear SWORD Jesus talked about is not the islamic type. Besides, neither Jesus nor His Disciples made use of SWORD to fight any war. Peter who used it to cut somebody's ear in defending Jesus was stopped immediately.

RoyPCain: @cleanvessel; good morning. during anointing people fall because the devil can stand the power of the pastor? which one is greater the holy spirit living in each christian or the power of the pastor? should there be a reason a good christian should be having the devil live in him at the same time with the holy spirit always in him? haven't you seen the big people in benny hinn's telecasts falling many times on the same show or show after show, even his assistants fall when he puts his hand/s in their direction/s?

i am certain if one pastor who makes people fall during his anointing were to ask another pastor to 'anoint' him, he will fall down from the gimmick to proof that the man is strong or its the voodoo that is working. in either case it is the work of the devil. but wait, i saw a man who came to church for the first time, not really a believer but wanted to proof your pastors are playing games, refusing to fall. how do you explain this?



the burden of proof could have been on me if you didnt have so many bibles. further in the bible we read what is definitely not word of God. so how can you say you have word of God in original, when we see word of man? if you know you have the original show me and tell me your denomination. i will simply use a christian of another denomination to checkmate your wrong move. if you a protestant, i bring a catholic. if you are a catholic, i bring a protestant. if you are trying to say you are both, i will bring JW. if you want to be smart, i will bring coptic. even if you are trying to escape, the mormon is still in my arsenal and i will not forget to use ethiopian orthodox, the greek orthodox and yet many more including the 7th day adventist. you can't win because what you have is corrupt and there are many ways to point out the corruption.

You are one of the most difficult people to deal with because of the way you write and reason.

I asked you to provide the original Scripture (Bible) your allah said was available and you are saying there are different bibles. Is it not because you people say there are many Bibles that you are required to fish out the original your allah talked about?

Look at the irrelevant things you are saying.

I repeat, where is the Scripture (Bible) allah told Muhammad to consult?

When allah said there was the original Scripture that some people were practicing correctly, which he told Muhammad to check, why did he introduce the quran again, creating double standard.
He (allah) should have told Muhammad to get the original Scripture and practice it correctly and preach same to the people. Instead, allah revealed something contradictory to the earlier Scripture. Inconsistency of the highiest order.

golpen: @cleanvessel

You are going against your rational logic. Don't tell me your pastor may decide to keep quiet even when God wishes to speak through him. All those that fall down at your pastors touching them are on demonic spells. Tell me a true christian don't fall on receiving annointing again.

I can see that you are not ready accept my claims as I'll never also be ready to accept yours, but I think I've put my opinion here on the thread and I think that is enough. This is going to be my last post on this particular issue.

If you see anybody falling under anointing, it is the demon in-charge of his/her problem that throws him/her down. The demon cannot withstand the anointing of the man of God who lays his hand.

The fact remains that falling down has to do with evil spirit. It is evil spirits that throw people down, not God. It is evil spirits that press or torment people physically or in dreams.

If you see anybody, prophet or no prophet, falling down for any type of spiritual exercise, such a person is under satanic influence. There is no example of a man of God falling down to receive revelation before Muhammad.

Thank you and bye for surrendering.

@ dareabiola98

Your questions have nothing to do with the subject of this thread. Thank you.

@golpen

Speaking in tongues doesn't make anybody unconscious. If the Holy Spirit is inside you, you can speak His language if you decide to do so. All you need is have the will and open your mouth and He (Holy Spirit) will fill it. I'm talking from experience.

God does not deal with anybody when he is unconscious. He will never subdue your will. It is the Devil that subdues and suppresses people's will and force his own on them.

When Muhammad first had contact with Gabriel, the first thing he did was press him three times and each time to almost death point before his revelations. God would not do that.

God had been dealing with prophets from generations to generations, speaking to them with love because He chooses anybody He loves as His prophet. Where did you see any of them tortured before hearing God's revelations? That should show you it was not the same God of other prophets that spoke in the quran. May God open your spiritual eyes.

Muhammad becoming unconscious each time he received revelations was due to the type of spirit speaking to him. If you have ever witnessed the ceremony of some idol worshipers, you would have discovered that their priest would get possessed and become unconscious and would be revealing hidden things, which he could not do naturally. This the way the 'Strongman' gets his messages across to the people.

@ golpen

True Chritians don't speak in tongues unconscious. The white garment churches who do have the same source as islam. Both are different departments of the same 'Strongman'. No record of such occurrence in the Bible.

God is not stagnant or stationary; He keeps moving, doing new things.

Can you tell me the quran would not have been bigger than it is if Muhammad did not die at the time he died.

Did allah tell you he had finished his revelations before Muhammad died?

How are you so sure the revelations you have in the quran is sufficient to take you to heaven?

Who among the muslims has got to heaven practicing the quran? Show your evidence.

You cannot afford to be in a plane that has lost control with the Control Tower. Islam is a kind of plane that has lost signals with the Control Tower in Heaven. It is a religion that is cut off from messages from heaven.

Jesus keeps speaking in words and dreams. We have seen people who have experienced near death (NDE), Christians, atheists, muslims, they all come back to become better Christians.

@ RoyPCain

Your case is simple.

Make available the original Scripture (Bible) your allah told Muhammad to consult.

Allah said there are two types of His Scripture - the one corrupted and the original, which he told Muhammad to check.

It means despite the alleged corrupted Scripture, the original is still available. You MUST therefore be able to provide the original to prove your allah a true and not a lying God/god.

Learn to summarize your posts as nobody has the time for unnecessary rigmarole.

@golpen

This is the point; true revelations are not received in unconscious or semi-conscious manner. The ones received under such circumstances are demonic.

God speaks to the true prophets and they hear through their ears. Sometimes they hear with their mind, which is known as 'inspiration'. There is no record of any of God's true prophets falling down unconscious to receive revelations. God does not cease your being to communicate with you. It is the Devil that does that.

Luke, Mark, Matthew and John recorded the life and deed of Jesus and there is nothing wrong with that. Doesn't the quran record the events of the earlier prophets though incompletely? Did Muhammad need to fall down unconscious to receive revelations of events already recorded in the Scripture (Bible)?

Has God stopped speaking?

Did you hear from allah as a muslim since Muhammad died?

I tell you, you are not current with God. If you are not current you cannot be correct. If you are not correct you cannot collect.

dareabiola98: He saw the truth...Muhammad mentioned in ur bible..he confirmed Islam in ur bible,something u don't practise...U can't even confirm christianity in the bible!!!! May you be guided..Call 2 christians here now and they'll soon start fighting on who's God in the bible...And God is not an author of Confusion

Muhammad is not in the Bible. Not at all. Don't let us derail the thread.

@ golpen

I think the problem lies in your and other muslims' interpretation of what revelations are. What are revelations? They are simply God speaking to man. When you talk of revelations given to Moses, they were God's words to Moses for instructions, which he was required to pass to the people. Revelations are meant for instructions for particular and or peculiar purposes, which might not be relevant for other times. Nowhere was prostration commanded in the Bible as an act of worship.

Revelations didn't have to be a bundle of visions handed over to somebody or a prophet like it happened to Muhammad as if they were solid substances. Won so Kurani kale (Quran was handed down like solid substances). No. Anyone who is close to God can receive revelations. It is not peculiar to any prophet in these days of Grace brought by Jesus Christ. I do. So did Jesus Disciples including Paul who later became one. These various revelations were written down (Torah and Injeel), which is the Bible.

The difference between Christianity and Islam is that true Christians receive from God as his or her Father but in Islam only Muhammad could receive from allah as his only prophet. Would you tell me allah has nothing to say to the people since the death of Muhammad? God keeps speaking even till today but unfortunately, the muslims cannot hear because their only source of revelations, Muhammad is no more. God continues to speak, He is never dump. What a pity. Because of this limitation in hearing from God, muslims resort to receiving from Jinns (Demons) through 'sound pressing', ountu and tira. These are pure divinations, which God hates and warned about.

@ RoyPCain

I doubt if you know what you are saying.

Jeremiah came before Jesus, Jesus came before Muhammad. allah must have known the condition of the Scripture (Bible) before he recommended it for Muhammad for confirmation.

Let me enlighten you a bit on Jeremiah's statement on God's Law. It was the misinterpretation of the Law by the Scribes that he called corruption and not the Laws themselves. How can God's laws be corrupted? Even in Nigeria, you can not corrupt the laws, you can only corrupt the practice. The same laws God's prophets after Jeremiah continued to observe, which Jesus said he came to fulfil.

There is no need for the quran or islam as the Scripture (Bible) before it is good enough to take people to heaven (Quran 5:69). Why would God introduce double standard, which the quran is to the Bible?

dareabiola98: I asked you for ur verses...All of em...I didn't ask that u say the bible is somewhere or not..Just mention all the verses again.Please don't leave anyone out.

Check the start and the body of the thread. Thank u.

@ golpen

Everything you have said is only a product of your own thought, no authoritative backing.

You said the Bible contains some contents of Torah and Injeel but not the real them. What is your source?

According to Quran 3:113-115 -Not all of them are alike;a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right,they recite the Verses of Allah during the hours of the night,prostrating themselves in prayer.

With this, lanrexlan conluded the Scripture allah was referring Muhammad to was the one not thrown away or corrupted by the people. Unfortunately, allah did not make any distinction when he advised Muhammad to consult the Scripture (Bible) for confirmation. The fact that allah said not all the copies were corrupted or thrown away shows that the original is around. No islamic apologist has ever claimed he saw the true copies of the Torah and Injeel unless they will fabricate one tomorrow. Where is that true or original copies allah talked about if not the Bible? Until they are found, the Scripture (Bible) remains the Book allah said muslims should consult for what they know not.

allah knew Muhammad could have access to the true Torah and Injeel otherwise he would not advise him to confirm from them. By implication, allah is inconsistent by denying some contents of the Scripture he once approved.

I put it to you in a very strong term that the Scripture (Bible) is the Torah and Injeel and the true copies indeed as no one could find the fake anywhere.

DevotedOne: In The Name of The One And Only God. The Peace of Allaah, Be Upon You Everyone.



Salaam truthman2012.



I say that The Gospel of Barnabas, is a clearer and more accurate depiction of the life and teachings of Prophet Isa [Jesus, PBUH]. The New Testament has been corrected by The Noble Qur'an, regarding whom the Most Holy God Is. Additionally, the so-called crucifixion has been revealed to be mere conjecture. Again, Qur'an 39:4 Had Allah wished to take to Himself a son, He could have chosen whom He pleased out of those whom He doth create: but Glory be to Him! (He is above such things.)

What say ye?



Wassalaam. DevotedOne

There was nothing to be corrected in either of the earlier Scripture (Torah and Injeel) and that was why allah advised Muhammad to make confirmation from it.

By referring Muhammad to consult the Scripture (Bible) for confirmation, it stands to correct the Quran and not vice versa.

dareabiola98: I don't know why you people get angry when you have nothing to say...I said qoute a verse that says the qur'an should be confirmed from the bible.ur raining abuses.Qoute ur verse and illustrate abi

I didn't in anyway abuse you. Being spoon-fed does not amount to an abuse. I'm saying you don't expected everything said to be literal. You are asking for where bible is literally mentioned when Scripture means Bible in English language.

dareabiola98: Nothing if interpreted can be in the same form as the original language.it might not carry the same gravity.When yoruba abuses,u see the gravity in the abuse and when english men interprets it,it looks like its ok to tell ur dad 'Are u alright'...that's why bible in hebrew/aramaic should be printed.Every single muslim speaks an iota of arabic even if its just a salam,a confirmation of God's promise in Zephaniah 5:3. And we shall change the language of the people to one,that they may call upon the name of the lord...OR what's your own interpretation of that verse.

There is no need to interpret if it will not convey the same meaning, otherwise you feed people with wrong message. There is no way you can understand Arabic if it has no meaning in your language.

Having same language in the context of Zephanian 5:3 does not mean speaking the same language, which never happened anyway. It means speaking the same thing in faith and undertanding. Even within a language there are dialects. It all boil down to speaking the same thing in different ways.

Rilwayne001: [color=#006600][/color]
Y is it dat dis bastrdz always interrupt in any progress in islam...#goddamn d xtians

''Interrupt in any progress in islam'' you said? Do you see 'pastor' in the subject? Is that talking about islam alone? People like you just open their mouth and pour out nonsense.

@ dareabiola98

Thank God both the quran and hadiths are interpreted in English. One does not need to hate before you can read them and understand.

@lanrexlan

You are used to saying you unfollow thread after you have spoken. Are you a 'radio' who does not wait for a reply. Why are you always running away like hit and run.

All your assertions are wrong and made up.

You said the people threw away the Scripture (Bible) during the period of Muhammad:

1.The interval between Jesus and Muhammad was about 650 years. Why did they practice Torah and Injeel correctly as given by God for such a long period before Muhammad only to throw them away or corrupt them at Muhammad's time?

2. If the Torah and Injeel were correctly practiced up to Muhammad's time, why was Muhammad sent as there was nothing to be corrected as at when he came?

3. You said only a party threw away or corrupted Torah and Injeel, where are the copies of those who did not throw away or corrupt their own?

4. When allah was referring Muhammad to the earlier Scripture, which is the Bible by English meaning, He (allah) never made Muhammad to understand which party or which of the Scriptures (the true or the corrupted) he was referring to for him to make confirmation. This proves everything you have said false.

No wonder you are running away because you cannot defend your false statements.

dareabiola98: Where did Allah say u should consult the bible...qoute ur verse now abi...wc english are u reffering to,did jesus speak english...Qoute the verse in the qur'an that Allah said confirm the qur'an from the bible

You are no more a baby that has to be spoon-fed. When Quran 10:94 says Muhammad should confirm from the Scripture that existed before the Quran, what did that mean?

If Torah and Injeel now combined as the Bible, even at Muhammad's time was referred to by allah for confirmation, not allah, Muhammad or muslims have any justification to condemn it again, otherwise there is manipulation being played.

[quote author=dareabiola98][/quote]Good. You have agreed the word of God, Torah and Injeel are not lost and cannot be lost but tampered with.

Who did, when and where. If Toral and Injeel are tampered with, why did allah refer Muhammad to it (them) for confirmation? If so it means allah supported the tampering with them and that was why he still referred to them. Is that not so?

@dareabiola

1. If you know who you are talking with, you will not refer me to a pastor.

2. You keep dodging the five questions. Answer them as numbered and see where you will land.

3. With all the errors you alleged are in the Scripture (Bible), allah said you should consult it. Your intelligence is not capable of telling allah he didn't know the Scripture (Bible) is having errors. Who is wiser, you or allah?

4. You insult your allah when he gives you a command and you are saying you cannot obey because what he commanded you to do is wrong.

5. I repeat, you cannot cancel allah's instruction to consult the Scripture (Bible) for what you don't know. If allah would again condemn what (Scripture/Bible) that he once approved, spiritual manipulation is going on somewhere.

6. There is noway you can prove the Scripture you quran talks about is not the Bible. Both ''Scripture and Bible are English words. English dictionary says Scripture means the Bible.

@dareabiola98

I think your latest posts are not an attempt to answer my questions because it doesn't go near them at all.

What is Barnabas gospel? Matthew 10:1-5 mentioned the names of Jesus Disciples and Barnabas is not among them. Where was he dinning with Jesus. Stop expressing sentiments please.

Why is Barnabas gospel different from other gospel? He must be lying if his gospel did not tally with others. It is possible some criminals wrote the book in his name as they did for Moses, which they called ''the 6th & 7th Book of Moses.

You cannot cancel what allah had said about the earlier Scripture by quoting something contradictory from the quran. It only goes to show that the quran contradicts itself.

RoyPCain: except that biblical Jesus promised 100 wives if you divorce 1 because of him, regardless of her loyalty.

When will you learn to know a parable? Do you have 100 fathers or mothers for rejecting either of them for the sake of the Gospel? Stop displaying your ignorance.

@ lanrexlan

Please answer these questions. If properly answered, you will discover that quran is not only inconsistent but a book of confusion.

1. At what point did the people throw away the Torah and Injeel, was it before islam, during Muhammad's time of after him?

2. If it was before islam, why would allah refer Muhammad to something that is non-existent to make confirmation?

3. If it was after Muhamad had died, how was he able to receive the revelation that the Scripture (Torah and Injeel) had been thrown away?

4. The quran confirms that the Scripture was a clear proof in writings. This means there were copies in circulation. How possible all copies vanished without anyone having a copy anywhere? You should by now discover a lie is told.

5. Why would God be so weak as to allow man throw away His words before He would vow to protect the subsequent revelations? Did He learn from experience?

I put it to you the Bible is the Torah and Injeel put in one Book.

If the story is true, the man needed to study the quran and hadiths thoroughly before jumping into the unknown.

Anyway, he might be attracted by 72 houris in al-jannah, which is unreal according to Jesus. Muhammad saw that only in a night dream and Jesus said it is untrue as a dweller of heaven.

If that is untrue, what is the assurance that other revelations are true?

If the story is true, the man needed to study the quran and hadiths thoroughly before jumping into the unknown.

Anyway, he might be attracted by 72 houris in al-jannah, which is unreal according to Jesus. Muhammad saw that only in a night dream and Jesus said it is untrue as a dweller of heaven.