₦airaland Forum

@RoyPCain

All these your islamic sciences are fallacies. There is nothing like that in reality. It shows to a very great extent that the quran is not reliable.

How can food sing praises to Muhammad? Does food have mouth? It must have been Muhammad's jinns (demons) who were singing. You said if it were Jesus that said that it would enhance His deity. Where do you see Jesus doing magic? What we have in Christiendom is miracle.

Want to know the difference? Magic has no usefulness to humanity but miracle: healing the sick, raising the dead etc. But what we see in islam is allah writing here and there, babies born with quran printed in this world, food singing praises etc. How are those magics useful to us? They are mere spiritual deceptions.

Anyway I can see that alexis is up to the task, I only want respond to where you tried to compare Muhammad, a sinner with Jesus who your quran says is faultless (Quran 19:19).

So continue with alexis, your superior on this thread.

Thank you.

LagosShia: He said "mount sinai in arabia".what else you read,only your eyes know.biblical mount sinai being in arabia shows arabia's spiritual importance.moreover our point is paran refers to arabia.bible scholars have said so.you can agree or disagree.


He's a very big liar.that doesn't mean he had no knowledge of geography.he is a liar in terms of his religious claims.

We can also pose your question to you in the other way: you believe Paul is truthful and was inspired.is he no longer?



Check galatians 4:2 and romans 8:17.were you once slaves?

The point is your don't tell who others are.I choose to be free in Islam.whatever fictitious idea or mental condition you have about "bondage",keep it to yourself.



You're beating around the bush.we are talking geography.paran is arabia,and mount sinai is in arabia (paran).we are only proving that Hajar (as) and Ismael (as) were once there.they stepped foot there.


Paran is arabia.mount sinai is in paran.there's nothing like "city" here".its an area and a mountain we are talking about.

You're obviously shaken.its great for a start.a good beginning for a transition to Islam.



Israelites crossed from Egypt to Mount Sinai in arabia.

It makes no sense they wandered between egypt and palestine for 40 years as christians are taught to imagine.it makes more sense they were in the desert of paran (arabia) for forty years,as it is wider.

The Old Testament is very clear on the fact that Paran where Ishmael settled was not Mecca. The New Testament is also very clear about the fact that Mount Senai in Arabia is the present Jerusalem.

Unfortunately, religious SENTIMENTS would not allow you to see the truth. But one thing is certain, the children of Hagar are in BONDAGE [/b]up till now. The only thing that is capable of setting them free is the [b]TRUTH. the TRUTH [/b]is Jesus.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the [b]way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by[b] me. [/b]

That was a statement by Jesus who your quran says is faultless (Quran 19:19). No matter your religious sentiment, the truth remains nobody can get to God without Jesus. He is in-charge of salvation of mankind and that why even your quran calls Him the Messiah

[Quran 5:72] They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) [/b]said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.

Messiah means 'Saviour' Deliverer, Anointed One. This shows Jesus is the only One who has the responsibility of saving mankind.

But look at this again:

[Quran 5:69] Lo! those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and [b]Christians - Whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

5:72 says those who ascribe partners unto allah he has forbidden Paradise.

5:69 says Christians (the people whose ascribe partners to allah) are longer forbidden to enter Paradise. Don't you see there is a spiritual trick being played.

I pray God will open your spiritual eyes.

F00028: @cleanvessel
I have seen your "proof" but before we bury ourselves in it which is what I suspect you want us to do . please addresses my initial query:
Bible Testimony
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of
God, and is profitable
A- for doctrine,
B- for reproof,
C- for correction,
D- for instruction in righteousness:

What do you say is your problem with 2 Tim. 3:16?

If after you have seen clearly from islamic sources that you are into idol worship and you have no regret, it is a waste of time still discussing with you. Your case does not require conviction alone, you also need deliverance from satanic bondage.

[quote author=vedaxcool]

vedaxcool: poor u even ur Christian scholars show h
ow wrong u r. EOD

How are you sure they are Christians? You people lie a lot to defend your false religion.

golpen: Jazakallahu khairan bro...

Thanks for the check... I've actually stopped the replies for now insha Allah. it's just that these ignorants deserve an answer for their blabberings against Islam.

May ALLAH alwaysguide us away from the deceptions of shaitan.

Thanks bro...response stopped

It is a pity. The Devil has blinded your mind and you cannot see or comprehend the truth. Keep fasting and praying ignorantly to an arabian god.

@ mahdino

You said the Arabians including Muhammad's father were worshiping Allah through idols. Why is it that when Muhammad brought the worship of true allah (islam), he continued in the same way they were worshiping idols? Can God be worshiped like idols? See ''Why the Bible is the Word of God'' in the muslims section. Read through and you will see where I posted how muslims worship Allah as idol worshipers do.

Abraham and Ishmael did not live in Mecca. So it could not be they who built Kaaba. It is the deception of the Devil. See ''Ishmael Did Not Live in Mecca'' at the muslims section.

golpen: You are yet to wake up from your somnumbulistic limbo of irreparable ignorance. you haven't found a genuine fault in the Qur'an. All you do is voice out your frustration and hate, showing off your jealousy in what your reverends have always cherished in the corners of their respective rooms.

Maybe I should put it this way, for your nursery faculty to absorb; I won't reply you again on this.

Why was ''Contradictions in Quran Part 1'' by truthman2012 sealed up? Why was the Part 2 immediately removed?

Keep indulging in self-deception. I pray you will not die in it.

vedaxcool: I don't know how they expect us to accept falsehood, imagine quoting a book which perpetually contradicts itself with no remorse.

There is no contradiction in the Bible but your misinterpretations.

The quran you call allah's revelations is not only contradictory but full of errors. Tell me, is it God that was that fallible? So inconsistent, incoherent, incomplete and disjointed book.

There is no history without the Bible. Does your quran tell you how and why Ishmael was separated from Abraham? Where do you intend to get the correct history of Abraham and Ishmael?

The truth remains Abraham and Ishmael did not live in Mecca. Therefore they were not the ones who built Kaaba, your holy place. It was built by pagans in Mecca, whose steps you are following. That shows which God you are worshiping.

F00028: New Living Translation. luke 1:
1 Many people have set out to write accounts about the events that have been fulfilled among us.
2 They used the eyewitness reports circulating among us from the early disciples.
3 Having carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I also have decided to write a careful account for you...

oya come construe am for me


please show where God in the Qur'an talks about any "luke".



proof?

Luke was a physician who later became one of the disciples. He was correct to say he relied on the testimony of the older disciples in his writing. If you will be sincere to yourself, if somebody gets into a new setting, he will know what has been happening before he gets there especially if the fellow is inquisitive.

Apart from Luke, which name of Jesus disciple did allah mention in the quran? None because he was not sure of their names. Is that God?

You said you need a proof on the truth that what was done to worship idols is what you muslims do today to worship your allah:

According to the hadith, the Ka'aba in Mecca was a center of idol-worship, with the Ka'aba housing 360 idols:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Masud: The Prophet entered Mecca and (at that time) there were three hundred-and-sixty idols around the Ka’aba. He started stabbing the idols with a stick he had in his hand and reciting: "Truth (Islam) has come and Falsehood (disbelief) has vanished."
Sahih Bukhari 3:43:658

Prophet Muhammad discarded the 360 idols but retained for Islam, the Ka’aba with its Black Stone, justifying it with the claim that Abraham and Ishmael originally constructed it. However, there is no historical or archaeological evidence for the existence of the Ka’aba beyond a few hundred years before Muhammad's lifetime. In fact, Muhammad's own words disprove any connection he was attempting to make between Abraham, Ishmael and the Ka’aba.

The Qur'an says Abraham built it:
Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma'il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).
Qur'an 2:125

Muhammed says it was built 40 years prior to the Temple at Jerusalem:
Narrated Abu Dhaar: I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Which mosque was built first?" He replied, "Al-Masjid-ul-Haram." I asked, "Which (was built) next?" He replied, "Al-Masjid-ul-Aqs-a (i.e. Jerusalem)." I asked, "What was the period in between them? He replied, forty years.
Sahih Bukhari 4:55:636

The Temple at Jerusalem was built by Solomon around 958-951 BC. This implies that if Muhammad were to be believed, the Ka’aba must have been built approximately 998-991 BC. But Abraham lived around 2000 BC and both Abraham and Ishmael would have been dead by then.

If Muhammad is correct, then the Qur’an [and therefore Allah] is wrong. But if the Qur’an is correct in stating that Abraham and Ishmael built the Ka’aba, then Muhammad and the sahih hadith is wrong.

The Ka’aba has nothing to do with Abraham or Ishmael.

It has a wholly pagan heritage. Egyptian Professor and foremost authority on Arabic literature, Dr. Taha Husayn, said the following:

The case for this episode is very obvious because it is of recent date and came into vogue just before the rise of Islam. Islam exploited it for religious reasons.[1]

Also, according to sahih hadith, Muhammad even considered dismantling it:
Narrated Aswad: Ibn Az-Zubair said to me, "Aisha used to tell you secretly a number of things. What did she tell you about the Ka'ba?" I replied, "She told me that once the Prophet said, 'O 'Aisha! Had not your people been still close to the pre-Islamic period of ignorance (infidelity)! I would have dismantled the Ka'ba and would have made two doors in it; one for entrance and the other for exit." Later on Ibn Az-Zubair did the same.
Sahih Bukhari 1:3:128

Worship at the Ka’aba and the kissing of the Black Stone are just the first of many practices adopted from 7th century paganism and repackaged within monotheistic Islam.

Veneration of the Black-stone

The pagan gods of pre-Islamic Arabia were worshipped in the form of rectangular stones or rocks. For example, the pagan deity 'Al-Lat', mentioned in Qur'an 53:19, and believed by pre-Islamic pagans to be one of the daughters of Allah, was once venerated as a cubic rock at Ta'if in Saudi Arabia. An edifice was built over the rock to mark it apart as a house of worship.

Al-lat stood in al-Ta'if, and was more recent than Manah. She was a cubic rock beside which a certain Jew used to prepare his barley porridge (sawiq). Her custody was in the hands of the banu-'Attab ibn-Malik of the Thayif, who had built an edifice over her. [...]She is the idol which God mentioned when He said, "Have you seen Al-lat and al-'Uzza (Surah 53:19)?[2]

Kitab Al-Asnam (The Book of Idols), p 14
"A principal sacred object in Arabian religion was the stone, either a rock outcropping or a large boulder, often a rectangular or irregular black basaltic stone… of numerous baetyls, the best known is the Black-stone of the Ka’aba at Mecca which became the central shrine object in Islam".[3]
Encyclopedia Britannica

There is no denying that the Black Stone was one among many stones and idols venerated at the Ka’aba by the pre-Islamic pagans. The Black Stone was kissed during pre-Islamic pagan worship. Though Muhammad threw out 360 other objects at the Ka’aba, he retained this Black Stone and continued the practice of kissing it. It is this same stone that the pre-Islamic pagans once kissed, that Muslims kiss today when visiting Mecca.

Praying 5 Times Towards Mecca

Pagans prior to Islam would pray five times per day towards Mecca.[4] Muhammad retained for Islam, this pre-Islamic practice, sanctioning it with a story of a night trip to heaven on a mythical beast called al-Buraq. In heaven, the Hadith tells us that Allah demanded 50 prayers per day per Muslim. Upon advice from Moses, Muhammed bargains with Allah and successfully reduces it to five prayers per day.

Zoroastrians are also expected to recite their (kusti) prayers at least five times a day having first cleansed themselves by washing (ablution). So even today, this is not a practice unique to Islam.[5] But, contrary to the Muslims, they pray in the direction of the Sun (at each time of the day) and/or of the Holy Fire (if they are in a Fire Temple). [6]

Fasting on the 10th of Muharram

Muhammad's pagan tribe, the Quraish, fasted on the 10th of Muharram. Though optional, Muhammad retained this pagan practice too.
Narrated 'Aisha: 'Ashura' (i.e. the tenth of Muharram) was a day on which the tribe of Quraish used to fast in the pre-lslamic period of ignorance. The Prophet also used to fast on this day. So when he migrated to Medina, he fasted on it and ordered (the Muslims) to fast on it. When the fasting of Ramadan was enjoined, it became optional for the people to fast or not to fast on the day of Ashura.
Sahih Bukhari 5:58:172

Tawaf between Safa and Marwa

Doing Tawaf between Safa and Marwa is an Islamic ritual associated with the pilgrimage to Mecca. Safa and Marwa are two mounts, located at Mecca. This ritual entails Muslims walking frantically between the two mounts, seven times. This was originally a pagan pre-Islamic practice. Muhammad retained it for Islam, sanctioning it with yet another Qur'anic revelation.[7]
Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik: "Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa?" He said, "Yes, as it was of the ceremonies of the days of the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance, till Allah revealed: 'Verily! (The two mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the symbols of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who performs the pilgrimage to the Ka'ba, or performs 'Umra, to perform Tawaf between them.' " (2.158)
Sahih Bukhari 2:26:710

Clearly, the Hadith testifies that Muhammad merely adopted this pagan ceremony from the pre-Islamic "period of ignorance" and justified it with yet another convenient Qur'anic revelation.

A myth was also created about Hagar running between these two mounts in search of water until she found the Zamzam Well. Even if this story were true, why is this reason for people to run up and down between two mounts to please a god? This myth was not created to further justify the ritual, but for another reason; Muhammad was trying to market Zamzam, owned by his family, as a money-making venture.

Requirement of Ihram

Ihram is a state a Muslim enters into for his pilgrimage to Mecca. It involves a series of procedures like ritual washing, wearing 'Ihram garments', etc. Ihram was originally a pagan requirement for worshipping idols during pre-Islamic times. Muhammad retained this practice for Islam. Muslims assume Ihram to perform the Hajj or Umrah.
Narrated 'Urwa: I asked 'Aisha : ...But in fact, this divine inspiration was revealed concerning the Ansar who used to assume “Ihram” for worshipping an idol called “Manat” which they used to worship at a place called Al-Mushallal before they embraced Islam, and whoever assumed Ihram (for the idol), would consider it not right to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa.
Sahih Bukhari 2:26:706

Circumambulation 7 Times

In the Islamic ritual of Tawaf, Muslims go around the Kaaba 7 times. In the Hindu marriage rite of Saptapadi, the married couple goes around a fire also 7 times. In both of these rituals, religious phrases are repeated during the circumambulation.

Circumambulation is to go in circles around a particular object. In Islam, worshippers and pilgrims do this around the Ka'aba at Mecca. Pre-Islamic pagans used do it to please the moon god Hubal, the 360 deities and Allah (who was merely one among the many deities worshipped there). Muhammad himself used to do it, even before the 360 idols inside the Ka'aba were removed.

Judaism and Christianity (the religions of those who are considered People of the Book) do not practice ritual circumambulation to please God. Two other faiths which do are Hinduism and Buddhism, religions older than Islam and accused by Islam of “paganism” and practicing idolatry.
[edit] Crescent Moon Symbol

Hubal was the moon god worshiped at the Ka’aba. The crescent moon was Hubal’s symbol. Muhammad's pagan grandfather Abd al-Muttalib almost slaughtered Muhammad's father Abdallah at the Ka’aba, to Hubal. From Ibn Hisham:
An arrow showed that it was 'Abdullah to be sacrificed. 'Abdul-Muttalib then took the boy to Al-Ka'bah with a razor to slaughter the boy. Quraish, his uncles from Makhzum tribe and his brother Abu Talib, however, tried to dissuade him. They suggested that he summon a she-diviner. She ordered that the divination arrows should be drawn with respect to 'Abdullah as well as ten camels. … the number of the camels (finally) amounted to one hundred. … They were all slaughtered to the satisfaction of Hubal.[8]

The Ka’aba, Islam's holiest shrine, has been a place where such pagan human sacrifices and slaughters have taken place for Hubal. When Muhammad founded Islam, he discarded Hubal. At the Battle of Badr, his enemy Abu Sufyan praised the high position of moon god Hubal, saying "O Hubal, be high". Muhammad asked his followers to yell back, "Allah is higher".[9]

Is moon-god Hubal no longer "higher"? Is Islam completely free of the 'moon' influence? Take a closer look at mosques all over the world, and you are likely to find Hubal’s symbol, the crescent moon, positioned at a high point of the mosque. As with the Cross for Christianity and the Star of David for Judaism, the Crescent moon is today a universal symbol for Islam.

It may not be a deliberate effort to worship Hubal. And yet, interestingly, through Islam, the pagan prayer of Muhammad's enemy Abu Sufyan at Badr has been answered, "O Hubal be high".

With these I believe your quest will be satisfied.

golpen: I've always thought maybe you need an english comprehension class and with these mumbles as I've rightly suspected, I'm just so sure of how worse your comprehension of simple english is.

I asked you not to EXPECT A REPLY any longer as regards our dialogue, but not that I won't be seen on the thread again.

And do you know why I won't blame you so much? I'm aware of the fact that the bible is full of half baked truths, white lies and MISCONCEPTIONS, which forms a high percentage of what your bloods is made of.

Mr English teacher, what is the dialogue we were on? Was it not this same thread? Anyway it is your attempt to dance out of trouble of lack of integrity.

If the Bible is half baked truths, what do you call quran that is incoherent, inconsistent, incomplete and disjointed. And full of errors that allah had to be replacing many of the revelations, yet incompletely 'perfected' as we can still find many errors and contradictions inside it?

F00028: New Living Translation. luke 1:
1 Many people have set out to write accounts about the events that have been fulfilled among us.
2 They used the eyewitness reports circulating among us from the early disciples.
3 Having carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I also have decided to write a careful account for you...

oya come construe am for me


please show where God in the Qur'an talks about any "luke".

proof?

Hold on, I will give u answers when I have the chance, hopefully today.

golpen: Now it looks like you guys finally got what you want... Arguments!!!

Anyway, let's see what you bring up this time. But meanwhile, giving me citations from the bible makes it look like you are forcing that scripture down my throat. You don't expect me to believe one thing your bible says when the 'oga at the top' is saying the right thing.

All the best men!!! Let's see how you mumble again.

I'm surprised you came back again after you said there will no more words from you. Can't you follow your words? As far as you are concerned what you say should not be followed. Is that your integrity as a muslim?

Your wrong coming back has no meaning because you didn't add any new thing.

F00028: @Cleanvessel
2tim 3:16 was your OP.
YOU choose to lead with it and it exposes fundamental flaws in your book- deal with it.

if accept 2tim 3:16 as inspired, then every other verse that doesn't fall under those four heads is not "scripture" and should be discarded. how much of the bible would you have left?


the answer is simple: muslims do not worship any idol. we worship the One True God, the Eternal Absolute, Who does not beget and was not begotten, and theres nothing else in His likeness.

2tim 3:16 says "ALL scripture" not just scripture about religious leaders.


luke says he was not inspired!
are you sure he was a disciple? do you know his history?

Luke never told you he was not inspired. You must have misconstrued his statement. Even if he said he was not inspired and your allah said he was, it means your allah is not all-knowing.

You created an impression that your quran is incomplete by doubting Luke being a disciple. Why should it mention Jesus disciples without mentioning their names? Was allah not sure of who the disciples were as you (muslims) are today? This further confirms allah was not the God who sent Jesus. You can't tell me the true God did not know the names of Jesus disciples who He inspired.

You are not right to say allah is the true God if you cannot differentiate between the allah Abdu-Allah was worshiping as a pagan and the one muslims worship in islam, unless you are saying the idol of Abdu-Allah is your true God. You worship your allah the same way Abd-Allah worshiped his idol. In this situation, how would a reasonale person claim is worshiping the true God as a muslim if not for spiritual manipulation. The Devil is very wise indeed.

@ ayenny02

I have these qustions for you:

1. Paul said Mount Senai correspond to the PRESENT CITY OF JERUSALEM. Is today's Jerusalem Mecca?

2. You are in forefront of those who believe Paul is a liar. I am very surprised you referred to his writing (Galatians 4:25). Is he no more a liar? Are you sure he was not lying here?

3. Do you now agree with Paul that Agar and her children (including muslims) are in BONDAGE?

4. When Paul talked about Hagar's children in Senai, he wasn't talking about her direct descendants because both Hagar and Ishmael had died very long when Paul spoke. How can you prove it was Ishmael that lived in Senai, Arabia and not his grand, grand children?

5. Ishmael lived in Paran, not Senai in Arabia. Are you saying Paran and Senai are the same city?

6. Are you saying the Israelites were in Mecca when the Bible says they were in Paran?

As for link sites, what do you expect them to say?

Please answer those six questions and omit none.

LagosShia: The OP didn't just stop at claiming Ishmael (as) didn't live in arabia.he went further to quote the very verses of the Bible which point out that Ishmael (as) lived in arabia."Desert of paran" refers to the arabian desert in arabia.also Moses (as) wandered 40 years in the desert.christians think he wandered between egypt and palestine.the desert Moses (as) and the israelites wandered in is in arabia too.check online about "Jabal al-Lawz".

Your statement is untrue. The fact that Paran is a desert does not mean it is Mecca. Are you saying it is only in arabia we find desert? Does the desert in Nigeria make it Mecca?

Are you saying the Israelites were in Mecca in those references the Bible says they were in Paran? Mecca ko saudi arabia ni. Very simple thing.

You have made no point at all. It is like you gave your response in a hurry without going through the thread thoroughly.

@ F00028

I wonder how you reason. You have no answer to muslims worshiping Abdu-Allah's idol and started saying unreasonable things. When did his idol turn to the true God? None of you could give any answer. SO MANY UNANSWERED QUESTIONS IN ISLAM.

What do you say should have happened for Samson's action? Was he a religious leader? Even your prophet did a number of things that when mentioned, muslims can destroy a whole city for it. Why are you people covering his deed if he did well? If you who are not prophets know he did what should not be told the people, you can imagine how the Holy God would feel about him.

Luke: Your allah says Jesus disciples were inspired and you are saying it is not true. You know more than your allah. Very good of you. Go on.

lanrexlan: Stop wasting your time with goons bro

None of you is capable of refuting the thread. Your resort is abuse. Who is a goon? The person who is saying the truth or the one who is neglecting it?

It is like you have been hypnotized that even when you see the truth it doesn't matter to you.

Your brother, golpen said he is proud of Allah as his idol. It means he accepted his allah as an idol. I want to ask you too, is your allah an idol?

I would like to hear your view on this: Are you worshiping the same allah Abdu-Allah was worshiping as an idolater? What is the difference between the allah muslims worship today and the allah Abdu-Allah was worshiping as a pagan?

I learnt you do everything Abdu-Allah was doing to worship his Allah: doing ablution, facing Kaaba and doing all sorts of rituals including kissing the black stone inside Kaaba, which was the exact things Abdu-Allah was doing.

Why would Muhammad promote the religion of his father and call it islam? Would God send his angel to promote a religion that had been existing before and rename it?

Keep thinking about it.

This thread is necessary because of muslims' claim that Kaaba was built by Abraham and Ishmael. I hope it will not be deleted because of the facts contained therein.

Ishmael moved from Abraham's house to Paran.

According to the Holy Bible Ishmael settled in Paran and married an Egyptian from whom he had twelve sons:

"Early the next morning Abraham took some food and a skin of water and gave them to Hagar. He set them on her shoulders and then sent her off with the boy. She went on her way and wandered in the desert of Beersheba. When the water in the skin was gone, she put the boy under one of the bushes. Then she went off and sat down nearby, about a bowshot away, for she thought, ‘I cannot watch the boy die.’ And as she sat there nearby, she began to sob. God heard the boy crying, and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her, "What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; God has heard the boy crying as he lies there. Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation.' Then God opened her eyes and she saw a well of water. So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink. God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer.
While he was living in the Desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt." Genesis 21:13-21

Paran was a place near Israel where Israelites operated

"On the twentieth day of the second month of the second year, the cloud lifted from above the tabernacle of the Testimony. Then the Israelites set out[b] from the Desert of Sinai and traveled from place to place until the cloud came to rest in the Desert of Paran.[/b] They set out, this first time, at the LORD's command through Moses." Numbers 10:11-13

"So Miriam was confined outside the camp for seven days, and the people did not move on till she was brought back. After that, the people left Hazeroth and encamped in the Desert of Paran." Numbers 12:15-16

"The LORD said to Moses, "Send some men to explore the land of Canaan, which I am giving to the Israelites. From each ancestral tribe send one of its leaders.' So at the LORD's command Moses sent them out from the Desert of Paran. All of them were leaders of the Israelites." Numbers 13:1-3

"At the end of forty days they returned from exploring the land. They came back to Moses and Aaron and the whole Israelite community at Kadesh in the Desert of Paran. There they reported to them and to the whole assembly and showed them the fruit of the land. They gave Moses this account: 'We went into the land to which you sent us, and it does flow with milk and honey! Here is its fruit.'" Numbers 13:25-27

Unless Muslims want to claim that Moses and the Israelites traveled from Sinai all the way to Mecca and back during their 40-year desert wandering, it becomes quite evident that Paran is nowhere near Mecca.

Ishmael Direct Descendant Lived in Shur (Not Mecca)

And they dwelt from Havilah unto Shur, that is before Egypt, as thou goest toward Assyria and he (Ishmael) died in the presence of all his brethren. Genesis 25:18

The Settlers in Mecca were not Ishmael and his Direct Descendants.

Since Ishmael and his direct descendants were not in Mecca, those who moved to Mecca must be from his grand children.

Therefore Abraham and Ishmael could not have built Kaaba in Mecca because they were not there. They were not there to receive the 'black stone' Allah sent as a pointer and mark for the location of Kaaba.

Do muslims submit to God or allah?

Note that allah was existing as an idol worshiped by Abdu-Allah, Muhammad's father, even before he was born. When did his father's 'idol' (allah) suddenly turned to real 'God'?

No muslims have been able to differentiate the allah Muhammad's father was worshiping as an idol and the one he (Muhammad) introduced.

Unfortunately, the way Abdu-Allah was worshiping his idol i.e allah is the same way muslims worship allah today. It shows islam (submission to allah) is a continuation of worship of idol not God.

Every Christian submit to God and Jesus his Son but not to allah, an arabian deity whose throne is in Kaaba.

pointblank 321: I don't care if this post is deleted like the ones before it.

Bible Testimony

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Quran Testimony

[Quran 5:111]
And when I inspired the disciples, (saying): Believe in Me and in My messenger, they said: We believe. Bear witness that we have surrendered (unto Thee).

The above is the truth about the Bible that is the Word of God.

Besides, the fact that the Bible existed long before the Quran and it (quran) repeated many things recorded in the Bible is a clear pointer to the fact that the Bible is the Word of God. How would the people who wrote the Bible know the mind of God, which the quran repeated if not by God speaking to them?

The quran is mostly a repetition of the events of the Bible in an incomplete way.

This appears undisputable by the muslim friends. The Bible is the WORD OF GOD. Again, since the disciples were INSPIRED, their writings must be authentic, no doubt.

But wait a minute: why did the quran oppose some of the Words of God in the Bible? Can God oppose Himself?

Something is wrong somewhere.

pointblank 321: I don't care if this post is deleted like the ones before it.

Bible Testimony

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Quran Testimony

[Quran 5:111]
And when I inspired the disciples, (saying): Believe in Me and in My messenger, they said: We believe. Bear witness that we have surrendered (unto Thee).

The above is the truth about the Bible that is the Word of God.

Besides, the fact that the Bible existed long before the Quran and it (quran) repeated many things recorded in the Bible is a clear pointer to the fact that the Bible is the Word of God. How would the people who wrote the Bible know the mind of God, which the quran repeated if not by God speaking to them?

The quran is mostly a repetition of the events of the Bible in an incomplete way.

This appears undisputable by the muslim friends. The Bible is the WORD OF GOD. Again, since the disciples were INSPIRED, their writings must be authentic, no doubt.

But wait a minute: why did the quran oppose some of the Words of God in the Bible? Can God oppose Himself?

Something is wrong somewhere.

@ Mintayo

They don't allow my posts to stay. They deleted:

1. Today's Quran is not the Original.

2. Jesus is Lord Even in Islam

3 Interesting Divine Marriage (which you are talking about).

Na so i see am my brother.

They deleted ''Interesting Divine Marriage because I asked them to show why Zyeed divorced his wife with proof. They are claiming Muhammad married Zyeed's wife, Zynab after he had divorced her.

I told them Zyeed purposely divorced his wife out of fear to enable Muhammad marry her after he has shown interest in her. Then if that is not true, I said muslims here should show evidence of the reason Zyeed divorced Zynab. They knew that was the end of the road, so their defence was deleting it.

Did you read '' Quranic Contradictions, Part 2 by truthman2012? What was offensive in that thread? Nothing in reality. They deleted it as their defence.

Let them leave threads to stay and see what will become of islam on NL. The children of Jehovah God are gifted with much wisdom.

Thanks.

lanrexlan: Who's forcing you? Die as a trinitarian and you will regret it,your wahala.

My post is just a proverb,not literally.
The fastest growing religion in the world is Islam.
Your own personal truth right?? The truth is that you submit and worship the Creator and not the creation.

Keep dribbling yourself.

Chai,the truth of trinity syndrome right?? 1+1+1=1[confused souls]
Do you remember one of your christian brother accepted islam here on NL?

Trinity: 1+1+1=1 in God's maths. Lanrexlan, you are also a small trinity as you are made of spirit, soul and body and the 3 = one you. But God is Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Man is created in His image (Trinity). No thanks to the Devil who implanted wrong belief in you.

Islam is not the fastest growing religion. Thousands of muslims convert to Christianity everyday from what we see in churches. Muslims converting to Christianity is no more news in Christiendom. We have many pastors Muhammad, Bello, Abubarka etc. etc.



If you are sure show your stats but what I know is that the little growth in islam is biological and not evangelical. Marrying many wives and bearing many children, most of whom are not properly catered for.

Islam has no message that is capable of converting souls. What do you preach? Oneness of God. Even idol worshipers believe in 'God is One' (Olodumare) and their idol the means of getting to him. So what is special in your message? I don't believe anyone converted to islam on NL. It is a deceit.

Sidon somewhere and listen to real messages, the Christian messages.

RoyPCain: @cleanvessel; if you pay attention to deols, she gave the same argument i gave. this should tell you that islam is issue specific and the known constants, no way any of them can change?

Muhammad [sa] is reported in hadith that the muslims should be very careful so that with him, they should not fail into revere so much that it becomes a matter of worship as the people who say they are following Jesus took him for worship.

even the in the courts, when you hear 'my lord' often you hear 'your worship'.


hadith does not crop up of its own without being a string attached to Quran, explaining something of it.


it is impossible that Jesus of the Quran is no more than a prophet of God, being a messenger to the children of Israel will become "lord" in any authentic hadith. Impossible i said. we are no worshiper of man and there is no idolatry in Islam. look for idolatry somewhere else and where Jesus is worshiped.

You are always diversionary in your posts. What issue of idol worship are you raising here? Who worship idol other than muslims: who worship Abudu-Allah's idol in Muhammad's family.

Looking at all your post on NL you are always Mr "Off=point". deSika said so much about this. It is like you read thread upside down and will not hit the nail on the head. Wake up man!

deols: Well, I can only pity you. So, in your very beautiful thought you think Islam would call Jesus Lord and Muslims would deny it.


Doesnt yout post sound a little bit of a lie to your ears? God will raise and judge you for lieing against exposing Muslims.

Who is lying? Me or the hadith I quoted? And you think deleting it is the truth.

Why not prove it to be false?

Why not allow others to read and make comments?

Why the fear?

I have so many 'whys' but let me leave at that.

Me I like my posts ignored. It will show the readers what am saying is the truth as nobody can deny it.

What I don't like is deleting my thread because it is the truth that nobody can counter.

Today my thread ''Jesus is Lord Even in Islam'' didn't last 10 mininutes before it was deleted.

There was nothing offensive in it. It was a muslim hadith that says ''lord Jesus''.

I tell you the truth lies keep the region alive. Expose the falsehood in it, it will fall flat.

I hope this post will last 5 minutes before it is hidden.

Mr knowitall.:
Yes of course Jesus(Yeshua) is lord of the Christian Jews...because the Jews dont recognize him as anything more than a

pity criminal....so you are right: Jesus is lord of the christian Jews....if there really is a heaven..and Africans are

able to make it....i strongly believe that they will be nothing more then gate keepers, house helps, cleaners, and Manuel

laborers...pretty much Africans will be serving the Jews in heaven. Because heaven its meant for the Jews.... it is a

Jewish invention...but I doubt this will happen because there is no heaven my friend.

Who said the writer, an islamic scholar is a Jew?

قراءة الآية

فتح صفحة القرآن

الانتقال الى صفحة القرآن

{ مَّا كَانَ مُحَمَّدٌ أَبَآ أَحَدٍ مِّن رِّجَالِكُمْ وَلَـٰكِن رَّسُولَ ٱللَّهِ وَخَاتَمَ ٱلنَّبِيِّينَ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيماً }
Muhammad is not the father of any man among you: he is not Zayd’s biological father and so it is not unlawful for him to marry his [former] wife Zaynab [after him]; but, he is, the Messenger of God and the Seal of the Prophets, and so he will not have a son that is a [fully grown] man to be a prophet after him (a variant reading [for khātim al-nabiyyīna] has khātam al-nabiyyīn, as in the instrument [known as a] ‘seal’, in other words, their [prophethood] has been sealed by him). And God has knowledge of all things, among these is the fact that there will be no prophet after him, and even when the lord Jesus descends [at the end of days] he will rule according to his [Muhammad’s] Law.

//altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=33&tAyahNo=40&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0

This is in perfect agreement with Christian faith:

Philippians 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

There should therefore be no more controversy about Jesus lordship but coming to rule according to Muhammad's Law remains a point not agreeable. Why will He abandon the Gospel which He came to establish and turn to islam