₦airaland Forum

proo212: True words my brother echoing Romans 10:14-15

May God increase your anointing in Jesus name.

@ headie

What you people call bible contradictions are truly not but lack of proper understanding of the Book. Unfortunately you will not point them out one by one for discussion but present them in a way it is impossible to debunk. How do you expect somebody to answer the so many items you presented. A question of a few words can require many pages to answer, talkless of so many questions.

@ larrymoore

1. Muhammad did not come to finish the remaining job of Jesus, the Disciples did. Muhammad did not go about his assignment as Jesus commanded. Jesus said "preach the gospel, heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers etc (Mat. 10:7-. Was that what Muhammad did? Who did he heal, let alone raise the dead? Don't continue to be deceived.

2. One-god
Which god (God) is the one (One) muslims worship? It has been proved islam is the continuation of worship of allah, which was the idol being worshiped in Muhammad's family before islam. The same allah is worshiped in islam as the true God. When did allah (a Deity) in Arab turn to the true God?

Let's see who allah truly is:

1. TAWAF BETWEEN SAFA AND MARWA[b][/b]

Doing Tawaf between Safa and Marwa is an Islamic ritual associated with the pilgrimage to Mecca. Safa and Marwa are two mounts, located at Mecca. This ritual entails Muslims walking frantically between the two mounts, seven times. This was originally a pagan pre-Islamic practice. Muhammad retained it for Islam, sanctioning it with yet another Qur'anic revelations.

Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik: "Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa?" He said, "Yes, AS IT WAS THE CEREMONIES OF THE DAYS OF PRE-ISLAMIC PERIOD OF IGNORANCE TILL Allah REVEALED 'Verily! (The two mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the symbols of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who performs the pilgrimage to the Ka'ba, or performs 'Umra, to perform Tawaf between them.' " (Quran 2.158)
(Sahih Bukhari 2:26:710)

You can see from the above hadith that what was being practiced by idol worshipers before islam was incorporated into it. I mean islam continues with the ways of idol worshipers. Is that your one-god you worship?


2. REQUIREMENT OF IHRAM

Ihram is a state a Muslim enters into for his pilgrimage to Mecca. It involves a series of procedures like ritual washing, wearing 'Ihram garments', etc. Ihram was originally a pagan requirement for worshipping idols during pre-Islamic times. Muhammad retained this practice for Islam. Muslims assume Ihram to perform the Hajj or Umrah.

Narrated 'Urwa: I asked 'Aisha : ...But in fact, this divine inspiration was revealed concerning the Ansar who used to assume “Ihram” for worshipping an idol called “Manat” which they used to worship at a place called Al-Mushallal before they embraced Islam, and whoever assumed Ihram (for the idol), would consider it not right to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa.
(Sahih Bukhari 2:26:706)

Muslims worship their one-god the way idolaters worship "Manat" an idol. One-god in deed.

3. PRAYING 5 TIMES TOWARDS MECCA[b][/b]

Pagans prior to Islam would pray five times per day towards Mecca. Muhammad retained for Islam, this pre-Islamic practice, sanctioning it with a story of a night trip to heaven on a mythical beast called al-Buraq. In heaven, the Hadith tells us that Allah demanded 50 prayers per day per Muslim. Upon advice from Moses, Muhammed bargains with Allah and successfully reduces it to five prayers per day.

Zoroastrians are also expected to recite their (kusti) prayers at least five times a day.

I want you and other muslims to note that any time you face Kaaba bowing down for allah, you are not worshiping the true God but the idol in Muhammad's family. [b]Let it be registered in your conscience from today.

larrymoore: na wa for u ooo why are u bringing illogical reasons not to accept islam as the true religion from God, christianity will not save u, nor wll it be accepted from u on the day of judgment :quran 3:19 "the Religion before Allah is Islam: nor did the people of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the sigh of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account."

I wonder what you call logical if what is so plain and clear like that is illogical to you.

Were Muhammad's parents muslims? Record has it that they were idol worshipers.

Was Muhammad not practising his parents' religion by worshiping allah alone before he became a muslim? Yes he was.

What is the difference between the allah he was worshiping as a non-muslim and the one Gabriel introduced to him later? Can't you discover manipulation?

Please note that the worship of allah before islam continues the same way till today. It shows Gabriel only came to reinforce idol worship in the name of one-god, which is himself. ALL THEY WERE DOING TO WORSHIP IDOL BEFORE ISLAM IS WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO WORSHIP ALLAH TODAY. There are records to prove it but I will post them only on request.

Your quranic referrences have no meaning to me because Gabriel the giver could not have come from the true God and that has been proved beyond reasonable doubt. Since Gabriel started the quranic revelation with wickedness and lies, the whole content of the quran is not believable. There is no precedence of God punishing His servant before sending them good news.

Infact the mode Gabriel gave the quranic revelations was inconsitent with the way God spoke to His past prophets. Muhammad would fall down unconscious, bear revelations with great trouble, snore like a camel etc, whereas in the past God would simply speak to His prophets. God continue to speak to His own live, not making them unconscious before He talks to them.

larrymoore: na wa for u ooo why are u bringing illogical reasons not to accept islam as the true religion from God, christianity will not save u, nor wll it be accepted from u on the day of judgment :quran 3:19 "the Religion before Allah is Islam: nor did the people of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the sigh of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account."

I wonder what you call logical if what is so plain and clear like that is illogical to you.

Was Muhammad's parents muslims? Record has it that they were idol worshipers.

Was Muhammad not practising his parents' religion by worshiping allah alone before he became a muslim? Yes he was.

What is the difference between the allah he was worshiping and the one Gabriel introduced to him later?

Please note that the worship of allah before islam continue the same way till today. It shows Gabriel only came to reinforce idol worship in the name of one-god, which is himself. ALL THEY WERE DOING TO WORSHIP IDOL BEFORE ISLAM IS WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO WORSHIP ALLAH TODAY. There are records to prove it but I will post them only on request.

Your quranic referrences have no meaning to me because Gabriel the giver could not have come from the true God and that has been proved beyond reasonable doubt. Since Gabriel started the quranic revelation with wickedness and lies, the whole content of the quran is not believable. There is no precedence of God punishing His servant before sending them good news.

barackodam: wu is more hypocritical, Muslims who follow Muhammed or Xtians who do not follow Jesus??




did i ever say otherwise?






i said earlier, always mention, according to the bible, answering ur qst is diverging from the thread, hence, i wunt






wud u please list them




Qur'an said he is but servant of Allah




oneness of Allah




worshiping only 1 Ilah and accepting he is but the Servant of the Most High






am sorry, u heard wrongly





who said he was tortured
Lemme ask u this, when u are in the Church and some1, lets say pastor claims to b under the influence of Holy Ghost, wud he behave normal til the Spirit leaves Same applies with a mad man




whr is ur proof?


"Iqra" read, yeah, he askd, wat shud i read, and after Jubril mentiond that 3ce, his sense told him he was to repeat what he was hearing wch he did

The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Apostle was in the form of good righteous (true) dreams in his sleep. He never had a dream but that it came true like bright day light. He used to go in seclusion (the cave of) Hira where he used to worship(Allah Alone) continuously for many (days) nights. He used to take with him the journey food for that (stay) and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food like-wise again for another period to stay, till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him in it and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read." (The Prophet added), "The angel caught me (FORCEFULLY) AND PRESSED ME SO HARD THAT I COULD NOT BEAR IT ANY MORE. He then released me and again asked me to read, and I replied, "I do not know how to read," WHEREUPON HE CAUGHT ME AGAIN AND PRESSED ME THE SECOND TIME TILL I COULD NOT BEAR IT ANYMORE. He then released me and asked me again to read, but again I replied, "I do not know how to read (or, what shall I read?)." THEREUPON GHHE CAUT ME FOR THE THIRD TIME AND PRESSED ME and then released me and said, "Read: In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists). Has created man from a clot. Read and Your Lord is Most Generous...up to..... ..that which he knew not." (96.15). (Bukahri Volume 9, Book 87, Number 111)
[b][/b]

I may not be able to continue with you because you are drawing me back. I am surprised you do not know some basic things in islam hence your request for evidence above.

Now, let analyze the above hadith:

1. Muhammad was in the cave of Hira to worship allah alone before the Truth descended upon him. It means he had been worshiping allah before islam. As you know, Muhammad's father's name is Abduallah, meaning servant of allah. It is also a known fact that Mutalleb and Abduallah, Muhammad's parents were idol worshipers. What was their idol? Allah as in Abduallah, servant of allah.The same allah Muhammad went to worship at the cave of Hira before the Truth descended upon him. What Truth? The continued worship of allah, which was already in their family? This shows islam is the continuation of worship of allah, the idol Muhammad's parents were worshiping.

2. When Gabriel approached Muhammad, without saying anything first, he told Muhammad to read. Read what? He had not spoken anything to him and did not come with anything written document. The next thing was pressed him thrice almost to death point. To me that was wickedness and violence. God's angels don't behave that way.

3. The fact that Gabriel did not speak anything or show any document before asking Muhammad to read means he lied. So he started his revelation with lies. That is the faulty foundation of islam on which the truth cannot be built.

When muslims get a few converts, they go agog. Do you know how many muslims covert to christianity through various christian programmes?

Keep jubilating, it is heathy to do so.

barackodam: who is the kettle and who is the port??







am stil requesting, can u please list the so many errors, wat u dnt get is the fact that english changes evritym, u cant compare nowadays english to the '80s, thats why ther r so many faults in the bible, peharps, had the bible been in its Aramaic lang, nd Hebrew, then translating then, not extincting the original version, then all these wudnt have apend, u said the Qur'an has contracdiction, bring them out...that one u mentiond in the oda thread, i'l look into it and gv u ansa






he could not read, he could not write, and u expect im to be able to preach the Qur'an at 1st, the violent manner wch u say, i dont blame it, its stil a point of correction among we muslims in the sense that, the Qur'an the prophet receivd in seriousness is d 1 we recite playfully, moreover, when u are inputin the word of God directly in human's mouth, u tink its that easy, its the WORD OF GOD for christ sake, nt word of man






nw u r saying Gabriel is wicked, i neva said so, peharps if he is, u wunt blame im, he was creatd from light not dust, back to ur statement, "if foundation is destroyd..." Isa(A.S.W) gave u guys no prob, in fact, u had a solid foundation, so i have no idea why and how u guys lost ur way, peharps u neva thought this...
The Jews rejected Issa,
The Xtians rejected Ahmad,
The Muslims accepted both of them

It is hypocritical for muslims to say they accept Jesus. Your prophet is Muhammad alone.
''There is no God except allah and Muhammad is his prophet''. That is the exact belief of muslims.

Jesus came to correct the wrong the Jews were doing by his teachings as the only religious people at that time.

Jesus gave many teachings, which of his teachings does the quran repeat?

Gabriel came to institute teachings contrary to those of Jesus:

How do you therefore believe and accept Jesus?

Which of his teachings do you follow?

What do you do to show you believe and accept Jesus?

Did I hear you say Muhammad's torture was to correct him? That is not true. God does not torture to correct. He speaks to correct.

Muhammad was tortured thrice and each time to the point of death.

Was Muhammad lying when he said he could not see what to read? He asked ''what can i read''? This means Gabriel didn't bring anything for him to read or recite. Why then was he punished?

Gabriel is made of light, was Muhammad the first person he would meet? He met Mary, Zacchariah and more. Why didn't he torture them? Gabriel that appeared to Muhammad was not the one that met the others. He only impersonated the true Gabriel.

larrymoore: so u waiting for muslims to assume hat the quran is faulty as the bible, u wll ve to wait eternity in the thread u are referring to, u were Made to understand that what exist in the quran is abrogation, hope u understand that, but I could read there that u don't want to submit to that because u ve decided to assume it deem.it is too clear in the quran that no matter how one explain to some ppl, the oneness of God, they will not believe because their eyes and ears ve covered.
It is too obvious that the bible suffers great problem of interpretations, some of is, if u so which wll be brief here. I just want u to be with a copy of KJV of the bible and a copy of RSV bible, I hope u understand those acronyms? The KJV was revised in MONUMENT OF ENGLISH PROSE in 1881, it was from that version that about 50,000 errors were spotted then some groups later decided to re-revise as RSV in 1971 to correct some of these errors of interpretations.


I do not have the time and space to go into the tens of thousands of — grave or minor — defects that the authors of the Revised Standard Version (RSV) have attempted to revise some of the grave. I leave that privilege to the Christian scholars of the Bible. Here I will ende"half-a-dozen" or so of those "minor" changes.

1. "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign: Behold, a VIRGIN shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."
(Isaiah 7:14 - AV)

The indispensable "VIRGIN" in the above verse has now been replaced in the RSV with the phrase "a young woman," which is the correct translation of the Hebrew word 'almah'. Almah is the word which has occurred all along in the Hebrew text and NOT 'bethulah' which means VIRGIN. This correction is only to be found in the English language translation, as the RSV is only published in this tongue. For the African and the Afrikaner, the Arab and the Zulu, in fact, in the 1 500 other languages of the world, Christians are made to continue to swallow the misnomer "VIRGIN."

My brother, the phrase "begotten son" has well been dropped. From this type of correction, do u still call the bible words of God? Do u expect a curious and analytical mind like me to follow the bible? Pls it is not like trying to defend Islam, islam makes evertin clear that the bible is not original. Let reason together, come to discussion, come to light. God Almighty(Allah) loves u, serve him through islam not through Jesus, jesus is a servant of God, satan used paul to establish christianity to cause this confusion and to lead billions of soul to hell. A word is enough for the wise

Thank you.

I noticed everything you said here did not defend the particular contradiction among the so many that there are.

Therefore your allegations against the bible is a case of a port calling a kettle black.

The truth remains that the quran contains a lot of contradictions, an evidence that it might not have come from the true omniscient God as being claimed by muslims.

The violent manner Gabriel approached Muhammad to reveal the quran is still a question that cannot be answered by the muslim world. It is not in the character of the true God to torture his messenger before sending him good news like Muhammad experienced. What has good news got to do with torture, which account for the reason islam is violent today.

The bible says ''if the foundation is destroyed what can the righteous do?''. The foundation of islam is faulty and so nothing righteous can be built on it. If Gabriel is suspected because of his wickedness, what he revealed is also suspicious and worst still is the fact that God Himself didn't speak a word in the quran to confirm his message.

barackodam: i cant ansa this, and dont capitalize on it cos its my comprehension, go ask people knowledgeable dan i am






u must b kidding me, how then did Zam Zam water came to b if they never lived ther?? And moreover, u said Bible, did Bible ever mention any soul that lived in the present Arabia?







u must b joking, i preserve my qst abt dis for anoda tym, cos it'd b diverging wch i dnt want to

Ishmael lived and died in Paran, he died at the age of 137 years (Gen. 21:13-21 & Gen. 25:17-18).

Paran was in Istrael, not Mecca. The Istraelites were used to doing things in Paran (Deut. 1:1, I Kings 11:18, Numb. 13:1-3).

Please note that when all these events took place islam had not existed and nobody could think it would exist. Therefore they could not be biased against islam.

I want to ask these questions:

1. Since neither Abraham nor Ishmael lived in Mecca as seen from the above, how could God send blackstone to them to build Kaaba in Mecca?

2. Again, Abraham and Ishmael were long separated by God (Gen. 21:9-12). Since God was responsible for their separation, how could He tell them to build Kaaba in Mecca for Him?

3. Why would God choose to build His house by Ishmael and not Isaac, the promised child who He actually had an everlasting Covenant with?

4. Why cann't you tell me an islamic book that gives a detailed account of Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Serah and Hagar and what it says about them? I suspect there is none.

larrymoore: but the argument was in written in English language na, just that u are not chanced to go through it, infact I did not see Ur comment there either. Why are u looking for lope hole where there is none, u are acting up like the ahtiests that hide under science to disprove the Existence of God u are obviously showing ur anti-islamic crusade, the end justifies the means.

I doubt if you went through the said thread coz:

1. You could not quote anybody as saying anything as effective refutal to the contradiction.

2. You said I did not add any comment despite my comment on 23rd July,2013 at 9:11pm.

As you have nothing to defend yourself like other muslims here, it is certain there are contradictions in allah's word. The question therefore is: would the true God be that inconsistent? Would God speak and not follow it? There are many others.

It is a pure ignorance when muslims condemn the bible for alleged contradictions and proud of the quran.

golpen: I'm very sorry, but your arguments are not mostly mature ones and as much as I love to have to have dialogues, I blame myself at times for engaging people like you.

Imagine the topic of the thread " talk about xmas " and here you've talked about at least two other different things swaying away from the topic and you think I'll be goon like you and follow as you drawn in ignorance.

I'm sorry I'm out of this with you...thanks.

I know you have no answer hence your excuse. If you have got anything to debunk the post, typical of you, you will not run away under any cover. But it does not pay, spiritually speaking to see the truth and look away from it. God have mercy on you.

barackodam: for ur information, the stone was sent down by Allah to aid Prophets Ibrahim nd Isma'eel in building the Ka'aba, may i ask u, logically, from his time to the time of Muhammad(S.A.W) do u no how many years that was, it wasnt the Ummah of Muhammad that blackend it, buh the generations before




u wudnt wanna disobey ur Lord, wud u??





am gonna gv u a very logical nd straightforward ansa......just ask any muslim wu has gone ther mayb stylishly, u no beta, buh do ask him if he felt it, i cant ansa that cos i hvnt been ther, and morever, it must b done with a clean and pure heart, mind and intention

I don't believe allah (if is the true God) would still want an object to be so loved after it has been polluted by sin. The God I know would not permit it.

That the blackstone was sent to Abraham and Ishmael is another controversial issue. Abraham and even Ishmael never lived in Mecca. At best the settlers in Mecca could be Ishmael grand children.

You know it is the bible that has the detailed history of Abraham, Ishmael and Hagar, his mother. Only the bible has records of where they lived and died.

larrymoore: I went through the thread, to be honest, no prejudice, the poster of the topic was answered by some of the muslim scholar on this forum. If u can go through it without bias, u find ur anwer. You christians are only looking for way to derail muslims off their faith. Muslims are on the right path to Salvation, this is sure way to salvation, let reason together.

Can you please summarize what anybody said that debunked the contradiction?

barackodam: It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Black Stone came down from Paradise.”
(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; al-Nasaa’i, 2935. The hadeeth was classed as saheeh by al-Tirmidhi).


It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:“When the Black Stone came down from Paradise, it was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.”
(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; Ahmad, 2792. Classed as saheeh by Ibn Khuzaymah, 4/219. Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar classed it as qawiy (strong) in Fath al-Baari, 3/462)
invariably, all wer neva black


ansad this earlier


When Allah commanded Prophet of Allah to face towards Jerusalem Muslims obeyed Allah and faced towards Jerusalem. Allah did it to test Jews if they will accept Islam and join Muslims, but they did not accept Islam. So Allah damned Jews, dethroned them from being most favored people, and commanded Prophet Mohammad to face back to Mecca as they did before when they were in Mecca. By doing so Allah created new nation of believers in Allah and made Muslims the most favored people of God for over 1000 years.

You have tried but yet I have other questions based on your answer.

You said the black stone was white initially but turned black because of the sin of the people:

1. It shows those who go to touch or kiss it are sinners. For people to be qualified or allowed to touch or kiss such a spiritual stone, they should have been purified. Why did they allow the stone to be polluted by sinners?

2. Having turned black as a result of pollution by sins, why should people still love and kiss a polluted stone as a religious act?

I do not agree with you that those who kiss and those who stretch their hand towards it from a distance feel the effect. Anything polluted by sin cannot have any power or effect as far as the true God is concerned. Something is wrong somewhere.

golpen: Islam is the world's fastest growing religion in the world of today. You may love to ask the converts how they got to be muslims. And one thing why they are muslims is because we don't constitute nuisance in the name of preaching.

You are a funny type. Muslims constitute more than nuisance, they constitute serious DANGER. Can't you see what is happening all over the world?

Those who convert to islam without anyone preached to them see it as an opportunity to carry out their evil intentions of killing and destroying. If not, under what cover do you kill and destroy without a cause?

Recently, some jihadists went to shopping centres in Kenya and killed anyone who could not recite quranic verses. Which category of people do you think that religion will attract, the wicked or the peaceful? The more islam grows the more the world is getting into DANGER because of the source of the religion. No wonder islamic terrorist groups are all over the world.

You wouldn't agree with me that muslims are doing so little in the area of evangelism and that is why the christians are nuisance to you because of their persistent preachings here and there, and yet islam is the fastest growing religion, according to you. How and why?

This situation confirms the truth that minority are always on the side of God, like it happened in the time of Noah. All approved prophets of God were always with very few people behind them. By implication few people are always on the side of God.

You should be afraid of a religion that grows without evangelism. Who preached to them? God does not preach to man, He uses humans to do the preaching. But a situation where people convert to a religion without preaching, something that is attractive to human fleshy nature (nature of sin), human wicked nature must be in that religion.

barackodam: u must b kidding me by saying this

There are so many contradictions and weakness in the quran but unfortunately the mod does not want it discussed.

But I am pasting this among many others for your consideration. If you read through this thread, you will notice nobody was able to debunk the allegations:

https://www.nairaland.com/1368713/explanations-wanted

Let's hear your own comments. As I said earlier the list of such contradictions is long.

lanrexlan: I said I wanna ignore you,I don't run.

You are welcome,call it falsehood it's your problem,not mine.


Allah says in the glorious Quran in Surah Al-Baqara 2:186 -And when My slaves ask you (O Muhammad SAW) concerning Me,then (answer them),I am indeed near (to them by My Knowledge).I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me (without any mediator or intercessor).So let them obey Me and believe in Me,so that they may be led aright.

Really? How does GOD's voice looks like? A baritone? Seriously,you will make a good rancoteur.
Have you been watching too much Yoruba movies lately?

It's like you also need Ruqya(spiritual healing).

Lol,then I wonder how and why one Pastor named Cosmas Timothy ran mad when he attempted to cure an insane man known as Tunde on Thursday 18th of June 2012,the scenario turned sour and pathetic for the young Pastor at Oke-Ado area,Ibadan Oyo state,Nigeria.
If not for the help of an Alfa that helped him out,he would have ran mad forever.You know what healed him? Ayatul Qurisiyu(Ayah of the Throne).

There are many stories like that.I also wondered how satan and the biblical god were working hand in hand in the bible.
You will never understand till you reach your grave.Look at your front,that's the grave calling out to you and me.
Let me tell you something,your stubbornness won't work with angels Munkar and Nakir.There is still time for you to acknowledge the truth.

I know you are nowhere near where you can hear God, there is no way you would believe. Even your prophet could not hear allah except in his one-night dream, he could only hear from a 'spirit'. Jesus said a servant is not greater than his matter. If your leader (master) could not hear God's voice live, how can you.

You want to know how God's voice sounds? First experience Jesus, God will speak to you yourself, then you will have first hand information.

You don't threaten a christian with grave. What happens after death is not a secret to us. Jesus had told us.

Even allah recorgnizes the christians. He said they will have reward in heaven. What therefore is your threat of grave about? It is you muslims that have need for fear because of the immediate hell allah promised you before you will be able to cross (if at all) on the last Day.

[quote author=cleanvessel]Here the questions:

You gave the impression that the stones used to build Kaaba were rained down from heaven.

1.What is your source?

2. Why is that particular stone black among others, or are they all black?

3. Why do muslims fall in love with only the blackstone to the extent that they kiss it. One would expect their love should extend to other stones used in the building since they all came down from heaven together.

4.If allah meant muslims to face Kaaba when praying, why did they turn from facing Kaaba to Jerusalem and again Kaaba?

@ larrymoore

You are very right, the end time is here. I do appreciate your expositions. As you have said so it is.

What you have exposed is not a strange development. Jesus said false prophets will abound. Infact it is not only false prophets abounding, false pastors, false reverends, false bishops and false christians are abounding at an alarming rate. We haven't seen anything yet. Very soon false Christ will come to stage. This the reason the bible says we should test all spirits to know whether they are of God. Jesus said ''by their fruits we shall know them''. I only pity those who fall prey to them despite Jesus warnings.

I was somewhere some years ago for the funeral ceremony of the father of one of our brothers in the church. It was a very far place, it took many ours to get there. I took some brothers in my car to the occassion. When we nearly got to the place, I suddenly discovered that some motorcyclists were trailing us behind and I had to increase my speed but the road was not good but somehow, I got to the village before them. When we got to the village, I stopped to ask of the place the funeral was taking place. While asking the motorcyclists came around, it was then I knew their intention. Before then we thought they were robbers. We later discovered they were agents to various juju priests in the village. They asked what our mission was and we told them. They said if we needed any spiritual help we would get it. We told them we didn't need their spiritual help because we were christians. They were surprised and said even the pastors come there for power. We told them we were not the sort, Jesus was enough for us. You know, human beings especially Nigerians can go any length to seek for money. I have seen a muslim become a pastor after spiritual-eye washing to be able to see visions. He has many members in his church till today. Church is a place where it is easy to deceive people to rake their money and that is why you see some pastor flying private jets.

Those false people are not representatives of God and that is why they are false. But I tell you the truth, there are true men of God. Where you have the counterfeit, definitely the original is around but usually not many. So few that you would hardly believe there is any. You cannot have counterfeit if there is no original because it is an inferior copy of the original. If there is no original nothing to copy. It is now incumbent on everybody to see that he/she is not deceived. Satan is on full-time job of deception. This also the reason why there are many religions today and only one - Jesus leads to the true God.

barackodam: wud u mind helpin me list the 4 qsts?? And mind u, i cant ansa all

Read my first post here you will see them there.

larrymoore: u are educated na, u can google the net on Tsunami and see for urself. How possible for the fire fighters to protect all the mosques and leave other things to be destroyed in a communiTy razed by such a high torrent of water not even water. U are denying the oneness of God by saying this.
see I don't need to look for more reasons to let u understand that there exist only ONE GOD, the Creator, that sent all the prophets from Adam to Muhammed. And that creator is called Allah in Arabic, u know this. This same Creator sent Jesus as a messenger, just as he sent other messengers before and after him.
Taking jesus as God, is a sin, a punishable sin in the sight of God. This is the bone of contention between the muslims the christians, my brother, God wants u to worship him directly, alone. Let reason together to know the truth, as u wll agree with me no verse in the bible where Jusus sald that he should be worship. Paul is the cause of the problem of jesus divinity in christiandoom.

Your carnal truth here is good for only the carnal minded.

Jesus was worshiped in his lifetime, he never stopped them doing so. Thank God you recorgnize him as a prophet of God but he said he is more than a prophet. If he was only a prophet he would have rejected people's worship in his lifetime as he would not want to offend God.

People give the honour of a king to the son. Many muslims who received the mercy of God have seen Jesus and today they worship him. Jesus said ''some people called me Lord Lord and do not that which I command'' People call Jesus Lord to his face in Books not written by Paul, before Paul joined the Apostles.

Jesus is alive working among the christians. Did you read my testimonies above?

As for healing the sick you talked about, Jesus was healing all manners of sickness in his lifetime on earth but yet there were still many sick people then. The principle is: you have to come to him believing he can heal you. The man you referred to during Reihad Bonke's crusade did not go to the crusade for healing, did he?

Even then, not every sick people in crusades get healed, why? Jesus said be it unto you according to your faith. But there are thousands of testimonies of other people concerning healing.

As for the people who brought the sick to a pastor, they came to the pastor not Jesus. I wonder why the pastor was shaking if that is true, because he was not the one to do the healing. If Jesus feels they are qualified to receive healing, that is his business not the pastor's.

You don't tempt God or threaten Him to get healing. If you fail to accept Him based on the condition you gave him, which he didn't fulfil, he is not moved. Millions of other people serve him, apart from other creatures.

barackodam: as i was told by my Islamic Studies teacher, it is not compulsory for u to kiss the black stone, i havnt been to Mecca before, so i hv no idea hw it seems, buh he said, wen u get there, and u kiss it, u are goin to feel as though u tasted something lime/orange, he then said if u are unable to kiss it, merely Raisin ur hands up facing it and saying Allahu Akbar and then kissin ur hand, u r goin to have the same feeling, so i no not why most ppl want to kiss it, and did i hear u say love? Frm wat i highlightd, u can c that most ppl just want to have the feeling, notin else
and peharps cos the Prophet was quoted to have said,
The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)said concerning the Stone: “By Allah, Allah will bring it forth on the Day of Resurrection, and it will have two eyes with which it will see and a tongue with which it will speak, and it will testify in favour of those who touched it in sincerity.”
Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 961; Ibn Maajah, 2944

You have tried but the questions are four in number. You have answered only one and even the one is not completely answered. You didn't say why the blackstone is treated specially from the other stones as all of them came from heaven.

Please go back to your said islamic teacher for the four questions as those who are supposed to help you out in this forum may not be of help as they know the implications.

Thank you.

harbiola1: Can't you apply csense to a statement?
I'm nt confused!


You're now talking.

Jesus never referred to God as "father" in reality.

Do you want to know where "Father" comes from?


Reference: Bible and Christian source.

I thought you are serious.

barackodam: Salam Alaykum, I will like to clear the misconception of most non-muslims who says we muslims worship the Black stone.

A composed dialogue between a muslim and a non muslim:


Non Muslim: How do you define idol worship?
Muslim: In my opinion IDOL WORSHIP IS IDLE
WORSHIP! What I mean is that it is useless, meaning
less worship. How can you beg anything from something that is
carved by yourself?

Non-Muslim: What about the stone in Ka'abah?
Muslim: We do not worship the stone in the Ka'abah at all.

Non-Muslim: Do you not kiss it?
Muslim: Kissing something is not worshpping that thing. If you kiss a handkercheif in the memory of a dear one, is that worshipping?

Non-Muslim: What then is the significance of the
stone in Ka'abah?
Muslim: The Holy Prophet Muhammad(SAW) has
made the significance known to us. The fact is that the expression of love in memory of a dear one is not worshipping. It happens in everyday life and is part of the human psyche. If one loves and kisses something or someone in the memory of that which one reveres and loves, it is only an expression of that
reverance. The significance of the stone in Ka'aba can be
explained in similar terms. According to the Prophet (SAW) when the first house of Allah was about to be built, Allah showered stones from the heavens to provide building material for that house. We now understand the meaning of that more fully. It must
have been a meteoric shower. Meteors must have rained on that particular area under the command of Allah. The stones that came from heaven were use to build the very first house of worship of Allah. According to Prophet Muhammad (SAW) ,the black stone in the Ka'abah is one of the remenants of the stone that were showered from heaven. It is because of the very historic nature of this event and in the memory of that event, we kiss this particular stone as a blessed thing--but we treat it as a stone
and there is nothing wrong with that. We do not beg anything of it.

Non-Muslim: onemore thing, why do you face it
while praying if you claim that you do not worship
the stone?
Muslim :Allah says "Verily, We have seen the turning
of your(Muhammad(saw) face towards heaven.
Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer
direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid Haram(at Makkah). And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces in hat direction...."Q2:V144
Allah commands we muslims to face that
direction. Who are we not to obey? We worship Allah (SWT) alone and ascribe no partners with Him.


Non Muslim: (Silent...walksAway)....

You gave the impression that the stones used to build Kaaba were rained down from heaven.

What is your source?

Why is that particular stone black among others, or are they all black?

Why do muslims fall in love with only the blackstone to the extent that they kiss it. One would expect their love should extend to other stones used in the building since they all came down from heaven together.

If allah meant muslims to face Kaaba when praying, why did they turn from facing Kaaba to Jerusalem and again Kaaba?

golpen: My business is educating fellow muslims who may not know all these views, so that they may be enlightened and this is the section where I feel my muslim people concerned have lear
nt.



Thank you if you warn your people against ileya, I have no problem. It is your choice and I think I have the same right.

So it is not in islam to preach to people of other faith? How do you spread islam? By swords?

lanrexlan: Please sir,limit your groundnuts.Can't you see the link I gave?

His Children? Glorified and exalted is my Lord(Allah),far above what they associate to him.Allah says in the glorious Quran in Surah Ash-Shura 42:51 -It is not given to any human being that Allâh should speak to him unless (it be) by Revelation,or from behind a veil,or (that) He sends a Messenger to reveal what He wills by His Leave.Verily, He is Most High,Most Wise..Imagine your own nafs(soul) or Shaytan will be whispering to you and you will claim God is speaking to you[Surah Qaf 50:16].Funny trinitarians,don't worry you will soon understand when you reach your grave.

I thought you said you wanted to take a run as usual. He who runs runs to be chased.

Thanks for your unprofessional medical advice. I don't take groundnuts, only that I have no time to go through what am convinced is spiritual falsehood.

I maintan God keeps speaking because He is alive but the muslims cannot hear because they have no link to Him.

I was deep asleep at a night and the candle I lit as there was power interruption got burnt to the end and ignited the table on which I placed it at the centre of the room. The table was burning seriously and I heard God tell me 'wake up and put out the fire''. I was surprised to see fire truly burning. Was that the Devil whispering? That was a sign, a real and beneficial sign - saving people from destruction.

That was just one example. I have been involved in deliverance where devils (demons) are cast out of their victims in the name of Jesus. Sometimes male voice coming from women, that is the devil inside them speaking. Can you do that in allah's name? These are signs, the real and beneficial signs - delivering the spiritually oppressed.

Satan does not like God's children because we trouble his kingdom. He would not whisper to any born again christians, his enemies to save their lives.

Till tomorrow, I cannot understand how writing here and there is God's sign of His reality. God's signs are demonstrated like Jesus did: doing the supernatural for people's benefit - raising the dead, healing the sick, providing food for thousands of people supernaturally. What does writing here and there amount to? God is far more than that joh.

harbiola1: God!

But what if i tell u that Jesus never used the word "Father" for God?

You sound confused. You said God was the Father Jesus was referring to, meaning Jesus father is God. Isn't it? But again you said Jesus never used the word ''Father''. How do you therefore know that the Father Jesus was referring to was God?

Can you tell me what word Jesus used for God in the bible thereby deleting the word Father in other passages?

larrymoore: view the below pictures very well, that is the scene of tsunami where all the buildings, companies, goverment property and many other valuables were destroyed but all the mosques were not touched. In case u doubt this, u can google it urself, my man, tins are haPpening, don't doubt this, seek for salvation.

All other building razed down by fire except the mosque? Deception. Well guarded mosque by fire fighters.

It could also be a magic. Do you know that in the 60s during 'wet e' politics in Nigeria, some houses were set on fire but couldn't burn? Demons are capable of doing it.

lanrexlan: No contradiction,your heart has been sealed up,so you don't understand it.It was written in simple English,the people asked why is a sign not send down to them? Then,Allah said prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is only warner and only Allah can send down signs as Allah says in the glorious Quran in Surah Al-Anam 6:37 -And they said:why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord? Say:Allâh is certainly Able to send down a sign,but most of them know not.

Surah Al-Ankaboot 29:50 -And they say: why are not signs sent down to him from his Lord? Say:The signs are only with Allâh, and I am only a plain warner.
But Alas,when Allah(swt) showed them the sign they requested,they called it manifest magic.Is it hard to comprehend??

How many times do I have to repeat this verse?

Surah Fussilat 41:53 -We will show them Our Signs in the universe,and in their ownselves,until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Quran) is the truth.Is it not sufficient in regard to your Lord that He is a Witness over all things?.You know me,I will soon ignore you.
Magic? Magicians will never be successful.
Allah says in Al-Baqarah 2:118 -And those who have no knowledge say:why does not Allâh speak to us (face to face) or why does not a sign come to us? So said the people before them words of similar import.Their hearts are alike,We have indeed made plain the signs for people who believe with certainty.Reasonable people with firm faith in Allah(swt) has already believed in his signs.
Your heart is like the people of prophet Saleh(pbuh),he showed them she-camel as a sign from Allah,yet they rejected his prophethood and called the sign of Allah obvious magic.
Miracles by those that succeeded Muhammad(pbuh)? Read here.
www.islamicline.com/miraclesbythesalaf.html

Why are you silent on Muhammad alone having allah's sign? You also have no answer for allah's speaking and signs ending with Muhammad.

Allah only writes now, he cannot speak to the muslims as their god. Only Muhammad could hear from allah and now that is dead, no more messages coming but writing his name everywhere. Isn't that true?

God still speaks to His children. I have heard Him speak to me. God is alive and keep speaking not writing anywhere.

lanrexlan: To you and every gullible and hard hardened heart person,it's a manipulation.Only Allah gives guidance.

I am pretty sure you don't understand the Quran.Allah says in the glorious Quran in Surah Al-Qamar 54:1-2 -The Hour has drawn near,and the moon has been cleft asunder (the people of Makkah requested Prophet Muhammad SAW to show them a miracle, so he showed them the splitting of the moon).
And if they see a sign,they turn away and say:This is continuous magic..
It's obvious you don't know the miracle given to prophet Muhammad(pbuh) by Allah.He splitted the moon on Allah's order,isn't that a sign?

You have only succeeded in proving the quran contradictory. It says there was no sign and again there was sign: which are we to believe.

Where are evidences of writings on every substance in Muhammad's day as neither the quran nor hadith says anything of such?

If Muhammad split the moon, which I believe is magical because it was no benefit to mankind, did he monopolize the power? Which of his immediate or remote followers has been able to do the same? Did allah's power end with Muhammad?

larrymoore: Did I hear u say that bible is word of God, as in did u just call bible word of God, u must be living in in the past. I pity ur level of dogma, see my guy, no excuse if u die in the state of idolism, I.e worshiping man as God.
The bible negates itself for its myriad of contradictions, most annoying, it has some obscene verses which one must not allow kids to read unless....
The contradictions fall into the categories of false
contradictions, mistranslations, and so-called scientific
errors. If u want to roll with me on any of this category, u can challenge me for proofs.

Most of what you call contradictions are not but lack of ability to interprete them correctly.

Even the quran you claim was shipped down by allah is full of not only contradictions but weaknesses as well, some of which have been discussed in this forum. As pure allah's word, there is not supposed to be any contradiction, allah is expected to be a perfect being.

larrymoore: Did I hear u say that bible is word of God, as in did u just call bible word of God, u must be living in in the past. I pity ur level of dogma, see my guy, no excuse if u die in the state of idolism, I.e worshiping man as God.
The bible negates itself for its myriad of contradictions, most annoying, it has some obscene verses which one must not allow kids to read unless....
The contradictions fall into the categories of false
contradictions, mistranslations, and so-called scientific
errors. If u want to roll with me on any of this category, u can challenge me for proofs.

Most of what you call contradictions are not but lack of ability to interprete them correctly.

Even the quran you claim was shipped down by allah is full of not only contradictions but weaknesses as well, some of which have been discussed in this forum.