₦airaland Forum

debosky: This is the truth - peeps are just reluctant to criticize Fergie. In a tight game like that, losing Nani and seeing Modric's introduction should've set off alarm bells in Fergie's head that he needed one more body in midfield. Instead, he did nothing till Real scored twice.

As for the so called 'super saves' by Lopez, none were really super IMO. It was simply too little too late.

Simply put - Fergie was outmaneuvered by Jose in the decisive moments of the game. He adapted to the red card to take full advantage, while Fergie either arrogantly or phoolishly didn't do anything till it was too late.

Heck, if JM with 11 men still decided to take off Ozil for Pepe when they went into the lead, why couldn't Fergie have the sense to do the same before conceding twice?

Fergie knows he screwed up, that's why he was so pissed - he's more angry with himself than anyone else.

like i have mentioned on this thread - if fergie lines up his kids and his wife as the goalie, some united fans would justify the line-up. jeepers creepers, he's human and he gets it wrong more often than his apologists would admit.

making quick changes after nani went off would have done us a whole lot of good. the substitutions would have allowed the players to regroup and it gives the players a breather for few moments. fresh legs would also be introduced to replenish tired legs.

drop welbeck or van persie to the bench, bring on rooney and anderson! we were leading and there was no need to continue to pursue goals. do some damage control and coast to victory. fergie messed up big time!

Afam4eva: I think people's IQ should be used for placements into non-technical jobs. All these university certificates are rubbish imo. These days i don't see the difference between the so-called graduates and high school graduates.

thank you!
some high school graduates would best most university graduates in oral/written skills and in the application of deductive reasoning. the certificate-worshipping got us to where we are currently.

Jarus: Is sex- or bribe-for-job right in principle?

it's right in principle as long as both parties are happy with the transaction. pay in cash or pay in kind. if the seller and the buyer are comfortable with the arrangement then it's happy days!

is it unfair to the other job-seekers? of course it is and so is meeting up a professional to give you tips.

[quote author=Rhino.5dm]LWKMD! You guys want to turn this thread to AY LIVE show?
In the US they called it "LOBBYING" .[/quote]i like that word - lobbying!
in a nutshell, jarus and ajanlekoko are lobbyists after telling us they got to their pinnacle of achievement through their hard work and end to end burning of candles. no wonder ajanlekoko is always visiting bars pretending to watch barcelona.

20% football talks, 80% legging up talks!

Jarus: So research should end on what is available in public space? No need applying one's sense to put into use whatever one gets from the public space? That is what makes the difference. If A and B have same information (or can access same information) and B works further with his information to get better result, it is wrong?

it's not wrong in principle.
however, it depends on the information you got while exploring deeper. the crux of the matter is you have an advantage over the bookworm who sat a home cramming or practising psychometrics.

nitrogen: Egbon, the end justifies the means, so far both na to achieve the same objective, should we care about the way Mr A and Mr B got to the same destination? Might it interest you that Mr A although used an informal means, got to that place ahead of Mr B. Then there will be a round of applause and a standing ovation for him.

Abi now.

if i were jarus, i would admit it's an unfair advantage but life itself is never fair! it's one thing to recognise there's an advantage no matter how little and it's another thing to pretend there's no advantage at all!

Jarus: But there is what is called for karma for one that gets there through unhloy means. I don't believe the end justifies the means. The means is equally important.

karma? i don't believe in karma
every human being would have it's share of joy and disappointment regardless of how he/she has lived. good and bad things happen to good people. good/bad things happen to bad people.

Jarus: bad boi. Which kain network for bedroom

well - the venue of the meeting is not important.
what is being shared is the koko. simply put, sleeping for job is 100% leg up. formal networking is 30-80% leg up. they still constitute to an unfair advantage over majority of the other jobseekers.

Jarus: He is kidding. Bribery, sex or money-for-job are never networking, formal or informal.

how so?
networking is meeting up people to share ideas and so on and so forth. would you say people who met via facebook or twitter to meet up and have sëx isn't networking? come on - jarus! of course, it's networking - the details of what is shared maybe different but the meeting itself is networking.

Jarus: If my competitor had been smart enough, he would have researched and got same information. It is competition and you go extra mile for edge. I started with Google, before it directed me to linkedin, explored further, added 2 and 2 together, got a valuable information. Isn't Google publicly available to my competitor with 'leg-down'?.

jarus, exploring google and linkedin is definitely legal and ethical!
however, it became questionable when it went further into meeting up to get vital information. like you said yourself, you got "vital" information. information that is not readily available on the internet. information that would be the difference between the successful applicants and the cast-aside.

think about it - is it an unfair advantage or not?

nitrogen: Bros, the former is informal while the latter is formal. End of discussion!

you are wicked!
so there's formal and informal networking? jarus, what do you have to say to this?

Jarus: How on earth do you compare sleeping for job with researching what's an interview is about?

it might not necessarily mean sleëping around - say i work in company XYZ and your research took you to me asking for information and i tell you what to do, what to say and what your interviewers would be looking forward to see/hear.....,is that not an unfair advantage? is this not like networking to meet a lecturer who would then tell you to read chapter 4 and 6 of your ababio chemistry textbook?

Maybe you want to tell me practising past questions, asking your seniors about a course or what a lecturer likes, is the same as sleeping for grade.

it is not the same as sleeping for grade but it's still an unfair advantage.
when you get this info - do you share it with your other applicants or you keep it as a secret to have one over them? past questions are shared - they are even sold openly in markets. tips aren't available to everyone and those tips are vital - the difference between success and failure!

Ola one: What is special about this PEST Analysis thing?
Often, they are not even sure. They call it PEST today, PESTL tomorrow and before you say Jack Robinson, they say it's PESTEL.
Even pepper sellers do it, they just don't formalize it by writing it and putting spiral holes in it.
Why do you think they display their articles on the roadside and not their living room?

The whole thing is over hyped jare

don't mind these academicians!
the moment something is put in a book, binded and taught then it must be ohm's law or laplace transformation. PESTEL ko, PESTLE ni. it makes you wonder how people in the 16th century traded without recession or double recession. everything these days is overhyped.

messengers = office assistants
technicians = junior engineers
receptionist = secretary
coach = football manager
wife of president = first lady
gateman = security officer

Emperoh:
Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. U need to add to knowledge at some point.
How about that?

the training i had received for 6 months is not knowledge? after training comes experience and the rest is history. i know a lot of people who completed their ACCA without going to uni or polytechnic. i know loads of people without a degree but with cisco, oracle, java, etc. a secondary school graduate would handle anything thrown at him in any company after the one-week induction.

You might as well say that a PEST analysis is trial and error.
Cost of stock are basically a fall out of people's behaviour in response to a company's performance in the market.
Political, Economic, Social and Technological issues are assessed before you do business in a country. The same goes to the stock market.
It is not trial and error!!

hehehehehe
emperoh the analyst! what do you do now? what makes you think you wouldn't have been able to do it at 16/17? emperoh, remember vugar huseynzadeld- the boy is a football manager on the back of playing FM on playstation at the age of 21. no coaching badge, no coaching certificates or any managerial experience apart from his playstation experience. it makes you wonder what guardiola/mancini are doing earning £9m per annum.

bunch of rogues!

[quote author=_babyshaQ]WTH are you talking about following your recent posts, I seriously doubt that you wrote the original post, You are NOT John Chikadibie Okafor. How on earth did you go through school? if you didn't review some past questions before an exam or you never asked seniors what to expect in an exam or better still, you didn't use past questions to prepare for aptitude tests. If you did, by your analysis, you cheated and should have your certificate revoked.[/quote]you are a disgrace to the community that birthed you and sponsored your education. past questions are sold and are available to all and sundry. how's that an unfair advantage? arrogant turds like yourself just jump into a discussion bereft of common sense - even jarus knows i was just leg-pulling and yet you brought your diseased snout into what you know nothing about. where did i claim i am john okafor?

You should blame the gods or your villagers for your misfortune and not others for being inquisitive and smart. Networking isn't illegal and is practiced the world over. I think Jarus is just wasting his internet Kbs on responding to your recent posts. Also, NB: What you believe in goes a long way in determining an outcome and I would rather believe jobs are gotten on merit than otherwise till I get one than vice versa.

shut that cesspit you all a mouth before i piss into it.
networking isn't illegal - it doesn't have to be illegal to be unethical. there are thousands of legal stuff that are unethical. with your below average intelligence quotient, this discourse is intellectually out of your league. have you had something to eat today cos that can only be the reason for your misguided aggression and your idiotic opinion on what has rather been an interesting debate!

what a tool!

Emperoh: understanding the basics will only take you as far as there are no complications and what laws of science are applicable in certain terrains or conditions. That's where a professional comes to hand. Believe it or not they are important and the British farmers wouldn't have done as much as core telecoms engineers would have done. Else, take a book on basic surgery and go and do a complex kidney transplant. Of course with basic reading and writing skills you can!

the long and short of the story is - the farmers are currently enjoying super-fast broadband internet as we speak. BT had told them it would cost £10,000 to hook one house in their village. they took matter in their own hands and solved the problem that would have taken them years......kidney transplant? gimme a surgeon to teach me the basics and which vein to open and what part of the skin surface to cut for 6 months and i would be cutting people up like a surgeon general.

I wonder what guess work and logic are doing in the same sentence??
Another point, banker's experience didn't crash the market. By-passing the rules and playing finance James Bond did. It was a pure act of corruption and fraud which had a global spiral effect. Enron, Bernard Madoof are cases in point. Lehmans Brothers is another of such case.

it wasn't corruption and fraud - these people have been applying trial and error over the years. look at the forex market - what mathematical/accounting skills do you need apart from common sense? isn't that what the market is basically all about? from nasdaq to nikkei, all na gambling.

debosky: Abeg oh. . .15 years? I just finished secondary school in 2003 - it's barely 10 years ago.
As for the question, no I wouldn't. I'm not saying it applies in every case, but you were simply oversimplifying and exaggerating.

you finished secondary school in 2003 at the age of 21? no wonder - you probably repeated each class from ss1 to ss3. lol!

Jarus: Nothing wrong with networking, it is acceptable, and for me, still within the purview of merit.
What is wrong is bribing, sex-for-job, test question leakage, bypassing all recruitment process to hand job to unqualified crony etc

it's networking in plain english but it's "paddy know paddy" in pidgin english. the moment you network, you have the unfair advantage unless you put the information you get from such relationships to public use and give every applicant an equal chance.

jarus - you are hereby found guilty of networking/legging up/backdooring and paddying.

Emperoh: By implication, what you are saying is that you can as well employ an illiterate and teach him how to do some operational stuff and that's it!
More like the mechanic or plumber or electrician who didn't go beyond primary school or at most secondary school; he just learns from his "master", starts his own and he's in business of repairs. In 10 years time, he can't design a simple car cooling system or even work on advanced cars. When cars upgrade or electrical wiring is improved upon, he's stuck. . . . .more like the 4 cylinder, V6 mentality!

an illiterate cannot read and write - all i said was anyone who can read and write plus some basic general knowledge would handle most of the things debosky is puffing his chest about. this may not necessarily work in nigeria where craftsmanship and artisan jobs don't involve theoretical side of things but it would definitely work in developed countries.

recently, some british farmers laid their own fibre optic cable system to hook on the internet when british telecoms refused to do it because of the cost! the farmers got together, bought large cables and laid it in their farmlands instead of digging the ground or laying underwater. these people are farmers for feck's sake but they knew the basics. debosky's company would have charged them £10bn to send engineers like debosky who think the world revolves around them because he had triple M.SCs and 5 Ph.Ds

Just like Jarus said, operational jobs don't need high end academic intellect. Surely, it's the same pattern, same manual, same process hence, every tom dIck and harry can follow it. But when it comes to tactical direction and awareness, strategic guidance, process formulation, intellectual inquest or even setting up the operational process, everything falls apart from here. . . . . . at the initial point, you are just a consumer. At the advanced stage, you need to sum up your operational learning and understanding and combine it with deep thoughts to come up with a new direction when you are in a log jam. An operational person can't be a problem solver. . . .solve it and tell him how to do it. he can't be a process developer or initiator; initiate and tell him how to carry it out.

Hence, your argument however good falls flat on its face when issues of career advancement comes into play.

tactical direction is guess work - it's logic based on a series of yes or no answers at every junction. with all the millions of years experience bankers have garnered, they still took the economy into a triple-dip recession so where's the so-called expertise. teach a secondary school student with an average intelligence quotient the basics, give him some in-house company training and he would cope just fine. i mean, he would cope very well, maybe better than debosky sef.

Jarus: Other scenarios of acceptable use of network

1, You meet ED of XYZ in a flight or a social club and got interacting. You discuss politics, football, management etc. He feels you are intelligent. You leave exchanging cards. You check him up with calls once in a quarter. You become friends. He needs someone to fill a position and poaches you from your company. I know someone one of these top Nigerian billionaires whose initial is O.O and has substantial interest in First Bank, begs to come and head his stockbroking firm without him applying. That is poaching.

2, You have a network of friends from school and you pass information around anytime there is

and you don't think these points give you an unfair advantage over your counterparts seeking the same job? if this isn't a leg up, then what is it? you meet people who tell you this is what you should expect, this is what XYZ loves hearing in oral interviews and blah blah blah and you don't think this is like seeing "expo" before an exam? how many job applicants do you think have access to this kind of information? i can assure you they are less than 1%.

debosky: So you think the companies just want to waste money so they'll pay someone £500 per day just to check P&T every hour?

so tell me what you do now that you wouldn't have been able to do 15 yrs ago when you were still writing a secondary school student

Ridiculous over-exaggeration bordering on outright lies. This is how those who have actual experience are differentiated from those that are just repeating stories they've heard from others.

which yeye experience do you have? hehehehehe. nigerians love to feel that oh - i am doing the most mentally-tasking job ever whereas it's not true. what do you do at work? dealing with workflow issues, liaising with your project manager, developing recovery plans?

poor me - i have the toughest job in the world. if people like bill gates and mark zuckerberg and millions of others could leave school in search of their dreams then you would know these things are vastly overrated! i don't know what the toughest job in the world is but i get paid for doing tasks anyone with a good verbal/written skill can do.

Jarus: Networking is very helpful in job search. It is acceptable practice the world over. That is why there are alumni network of top universities.

Some employers just don't want to go through the rigour of throwing open a vacancy and having thousands apply. They ask for recommendations. Some even poach - go all the way to another organization to poach someone.

Linkedin was helpful to me in securing my current job. When I was to go for interview, I did internet search about the company and got directed to linkedin page of some people that work in the company, connected with them, dug further and realized that one of them was a former staff of one of my then company's subsidiaries, got in touch with my friend in that our subsidiary and enquired about XYZ - who, being an HR person, I guessed was likely going among my interviewers, asked about her temperament, worldview, etc. All these aided my preparation/template for the interview - knowing something about your interviewer beforehand. That's a legitimate way of putting networking to use. (the illegitimate way was to go to her house - which can be dug out by further research - and go with sack of Naira - which wont work anyway).

how do you know it wouldn't work? if money doesn't work then sex would........
i have a cousin in portharcourt who served in an oil/gas company as a result of sleëping with the manager there. after his service was completed, he was the only one the company retained and he wasn't the sharpest tool in the box. this he told me himself and his rise in the company has been ridiculously rapid. abeggi - nigeria is an animal kingdom, anything goes!

Emperoh: Ola One,

It will be totally incorrect to assume that networking is about bribing and contacting with a Senator or sleeping with an Alhaji to get an NNPC of ministry job.

I am against nepotism as far as it concerns doing some corrupt actions to get hired for a job you most certainly are not qualified for.

Regardless of how you get a job, it is only how good you are that keeps you in it. No serious minded organisation will employ and keep anyone who isn't adding to the bottom line of the organisation through his/her area of expertise or whatever you are hired for.

The idea of getting a job through you network is never bad. You know someone, that's as far as it can get sometimes. You need to prove to the interview panel how your presence can add to the bottom-line and how your activities can help it grow. If you can't ace an interview, how has the network helped?

Some contacts go as far as ensuring you scale through all the hurdles but eventually, if you were prodded in, you will be lifted our in due course.

But i still maintain, a high percentage of Private sector jobs are on merit!!!

that's the twist about this whole thing.....

there's no job i have done that i wouldn't have coped with as a secondary school graduate - what i am trying to say is it would take the dumbest of a dimwit not to cope with any job regardless of his grade in the university. they make you go through all those hoops and when that dream job lands on your lap, you are basically checking the pressure and the temperature of a pump every 1 hour and you are getting paid £500 per day for it. tell a junior secondary school student to do that and he would certainly do it without stress.

that line of argument is a bit lame to claim no organisation would hire a dullard. every graduate who can read and write would cope in most organisations. 90% of the tasks are common sense. a bit of in-house training is included too so it's impossible for any graduate of any discipline not to cope with the tasks required. under the cover of this, applicants of all kinds slip through the system.

Cristalz: Coogar is just housing personal beef for Giggs so the only thing he isn't gonna blame the man for is the ref's twisted red.

For me, there was no shame in last night's loss. The team did well.
RVP needs prayers sha.

RuuDie: God bless you sweetheart. . .

How could anyone say the game-plan wasn't working when in 60mins, Real hadn't gotten a clear sight of DDG's goal. . . How could anyone blame Giggsy for Modric's goal when he played most of the game on the right, in front of Rafael and the gap Modric shot from was left / left-central axis. . . How could anyone say we didn't show fighting spirit or character when Diego Lopez had to pull off 3 or 4 top-draw saves late in the game to keep Madrid ahead!

I have never been prouder of this team (including Danny Welbeck) in all my life of supporting 'em - we may have lost but the way we played throughout was fantastic - and this will go into my catalog of " UTD Special European Nights"!

united fans make me laugh!
we were doing okay in spite of having giggs in the starting line up not because giggs was in the line-up. our football was disjointed - no rhythm at all. i don't know how anyone can watch that first half and say that was a typical united performance - it was below par but because we were winning at 0-0 and people expected much more from madrid, the general perception was that we were ok!

there's no logic behind having rooney on the bench - once you take such risks, you better pray to win the game or else that decision would be questioned and criticised. zonal marking highlighted rooney's shoddy performance in the first leg. is rooney a winger, why not play welbeck or young on that area of the pitch and stick rooney behind van persie?

fergie messed up with the line-up and he reacted slowly to alter the tactics when nani went off.

[quote author=Mr_TA]I do agree that fergie didn't respond to the red card at all and reshape the team. That was disappointing.[/quote]thank you!
that was what happened against city at old trafford last season. johnny evans went off, fletcher was moved back to RB and fergie left anderson and rooney alone in the midfield to cope with barry, silva, milner and aguero.

other managers would quickly bring in phil jones and sacrifice a striker instantly but lord fergus did not make any change until 20 mins later. he still kept welbeck and rooney on the pitch and left anderson alone to cope with city's wave of attacks. how's that tactical ingenuity?

usbcable: Tomorrow again,

the Los Blancos family looks forward to a grea t match.

Lets hope
Ozil
CR
Dimaria
Alonso
and Higuain/Benzema comes to the party.

Hala madrid

congrats usbcable!
that was an emphatic victory - to come away with 3 victories against barcelona(twice) and man utd at old trafford is no child's play. the fault wasn't with madrid tonight, it was the referee and arbeola didn't make a meal of the incident - he got up almost immediately.

Belovedd: @coogar
e don do, sometimes things dont go as planned, one team does all d playing another takes d glory. saf could have made those changes you suggested and d goals still come in. then d statement would've been why change a formation that had worked so far.
this just goes to show that an element of luck/favour is required in football.
In all we played well, sad we lost but they can hold their head high

personally, i don't believe there's luck in football!
work hard, do the right things and you will always get the results you crave.

we edged madrid in the first half but there was never a time i felt we were comfortable in the game and without the red card, you would expect madrid to mount their siege towards the end to prevent elimination!

say what you like about jose - 3 big games(barcelona, barcelona and man utd) and he won all the games! is that luck? fergie should retire quick and let this man take over from here.

[quote author=x-fire]I will keep saying this: IT IS BLATANT FALSEHOOD that 90% of jobs in Nigeria is on man-know-man basis. It is callous to say so just because of his unfortunate experience.[/quote]but that's the reality......
to even know there are vacancies in some companies involved a super duper networking of friends. not everybody gets to hear chevron is recruiting or mobil is recruiting. thank heavens for internet and mobile phones, things are a bit better but you still need to know someone to get by.

I am a witness. I have seen hundreds of people get jobs on merit in both private and public organizations. I'm not ruling out getting a job through networking in Nigeria. I'm only saying it is highly exaggerated.

how do you know for sure they got it on merit and nothing else was involved? it's not like they would tell you what they did here and there as most of these things are done under secrecy.

Jobs are few in Nigeria. Thus, only the very best and favoured get to have employment in Nigeria. I was once involved in a major recruitment involving thousands of applicants and they finally took only six of us. We never knew anybody. But it will be very difficult to convince the remaining thousands of unsuccessful candidates that we never knew anybody in the organization. I'm not against any other info in the write-up (didn't bother reading everything)

i agree - it would be unfair to say people don't get hired on merit alone in nigeria but far majority don't get in by merit. something somewhere must have acted as a catalyst!

Cristalz: Nope. Just saying it's a huge ask so soon after your spirits sink to your feet under the weight of an unfair red. The opponent always gets an advantage in such a scenario, you know that.

exactly my point!
you make those sort of changes so the opponents won't get the advantage. if the score was 0-0, i would understand leaving giggs on the pitch. we were leading 1-0 with a man down. giggs' contribution is more offensive than defensive. we needed to defend not score again. it makes perfect sense to remove giggs and have pitbulls who would hassle all night. no more champagne football - get dirty and get stuck in!

First, thank you for finally admitting that the ref did some damage. A lot, for that matter.
Second, since when has Giggs' age ever been an issue? The man would deceive any rookie football spectator the way he plays his game.
Don't discard honesty in a bid to spite Giggs. Everyone knows you never wanted him to play from the start.
I don't see what Ando does that Giggs cannot do, and arguably better too. Giggs didn't need to go anywhere.

anderson can defend better than giggs......rooney too! rooney is more suited to doing a demolition job such as that. we didnt need to attack again - we just needed to park the bus. the excuse has been given to us to park the van.

So what's your point now, the team lost 'cos Giggs failed to defend? Come on, get realistic.

we lost because we couldn't protect our lead! i blame fergie for his dumb selection and his slow reaction after the referee saga.

Fergie expected the guys on the pitch to be able to handle Modric. Therez no guarantee that Giggs going off and Ando coming on woulda prevented RMD from scoring 'cos they already had an advantage and used it while the team was still reeling from the after-effects of the red.

that expectation is mammoth!
we needed to regroup - refresh, change tactical input and see off the game! must giggs play this game?

You shouldn't make probabilistic statements with certainty like you're on T.B. Joshua's payroll

i have always known it wouldn't end well with giggs starting - that we couldn't score in the first half could be put down to ryan giggs starting. his inclusion meant rooney - a player marca(real madrid's official newspaper) referred to as a demon sit on the bench. what is to say rooney wouldn't have bagged 2-3 goals in the first half to put the game beyond madrid?

until giggs retire - i am sorry, we would continue to have nights like this. he's been present in all the games we have lost this season.

montelik: apparently rvp continued his recent general poor play, yet its giggs that is getting singled out. scapegoating never stops on this thread. at least its not the usual suspect i.e. Welbeck. lol

van persie did all that was asked of him tonight - where's the supply?
where are the players van persie loves to feed from? abeg - fergie messed up! he's always slow to react to red cards or players getting injured. it's like a curse - he never sees the need to make changes until the 70th minute......

as for me, that was why we lost! stoke fc would have seen that game off with 1-0 lead!
where's ruudie?

Cristalz: Seriously?? The decision changed nothing? Your last statement answered the wrongness of your first one.

are we saying we are too light to protect a goal lead at home even though we are playing one man down?

I see your point here.
But Giggs didn't need to be sacrificed. I mean, is there another word between 'right' and 'wrong'? If Giggs did nothing wrong, how then did he also do nothing right?
Giggs did a lot of hassling on that pitch tonight, trust me. RVP was a much weaker link.
RVP for Rooney, perhaps Cleverly for Valencia. But not Giggs' cos he was making an impact.

someone has to be sacrificed! the referee has done that damage!
a level of damage control should have been applied. then again, you are forgetting nani was one of our most dangerous players on the night so we effectively lost an attacking threat and we did nothing to plug that vacuum! that's tactical harakiri. giggs is 40 - there's no way his productivity would be as high as rooney on fresh legs or anderson on fresh legs!

The strategy was working because we did not give RMD any opportunities to score. We frustrated them quiet. Ronaldo became invisible.
Plus, we were a goal up and patiently working on getting more. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

after a 2nd half red card, there's no team in the world that would not make an instant change to balance the team. fergie left it too late - too too late. he ought to have known that madrid scoring 2 goals effectively put the tie beyond us. i would have removed van persie, giggs and cleverley to play anderson, valencia and rooney(players who can defend)

Now, reacting to Jose's change is another matter. You have a point. I just don't agree that Giggs shoulda been the sacrifice.

a 40 year-old man that has ran his bollocks off for 1hr. you really mean he would do better than the fresher, younger legs of players who can defend?

chamotex: As much as I think Fergie should have made immediate changes, I don't think it would have made any difference.
Real was always going to have the upper hand after that regardless. It's not like we have a DM or defensive stalwart waiting on the bench or something.
We've never been a side that can contain with 10 men...history tells us that.

Hindsight is a biatch!

because ferguson never reacts to a red card.
no urgency, no tactical nous, no foresight! your team is a man down and you have a 40-yr old man who hasn't really contributed anything to the game - why exactly would you want to keep him? having giggs on the pitch is minus 1 from the onset! having nani off makes it minus 2.

Emperoh: I felt we could still have done more.
We gave up after the red which is unlike the United i used to know.
Talked of the missed chances and RvP that have suddenly waned with season wearing on.

All the same, one distraction aside. . . . we had a good game. . . but the referee making a bad call is now an excuse.
We could have scored up to 2 goals in the last 10 mins. . . .Madrid's keeper did well.

All the same, let's move on Giggs or no Giggs

the crucial moment for me was modric's introduction.
we had no remedy or counter-move to stop him. he was the key player tonight! he had about 10 yards in front of the box to ping that ball in the net. with another defensive player with fresh legs, there would have been more protection!

i can understand why the ref gave a red card too! whether it's intentional or not, it's dangerous play.

r231: nothing to do with giggs....
he tried.....blame stu1pd ref

everything to do with giggs. who's supposed to be marshalling the space modric found himself to take the shot?

Cristalz: Because Rooney and Anderson are what, Batman and friggin' Robin??
The red broke spirits, which is what happens when you get an unfair decision like that. Not much Rooney and Ando can do about that.

the decision changed nothing, we were leading! we went down a man down!
jose was about bringing on benzema when nani saw red, he sent him back and brought in
an extra midfielder to run us ragged! fergie should be making a change in that instant to neutralise modric! jose reacted to the situation, we did not!

Giggs did nothing wrong on the night. Twaz Van Persie that shoulda gone off for Rooney 'cos he seems to have lost his mojo.

he didnt do anything wrong - but that's not enough! he didn't do anything right either. we were down to 10 men against the 2nd best team in the world! what's the shame in hauling off giggs n bring on fresh legs who can hassle madrid players?

IMO, the team played cautiously which wasn't so bad because the strategy was working till the idiotic ref messed it all up. Whoz to say we wouldn't have scored more with the players that started? We had RMD quiet. Ronaldo was lost at a point. It was a slow build, but it sure pointed to it.

Not bad from team United.

people keep saying the strategy worked? how did it work?
is it unheard of to have copped 2-3 goals in the first half and broke madrid's spirit? mourinho even admitted his team stank up the whole joint but we didn't take advantage as the home team. any sending off in the 2nd half is a warning sign that changes should be made! jose made changes to score, we did nothing to counter his change. that was fergie's fault!

dayokanu: If only they had the Special one as coach. No way the best team should be losing

sometimes the best team can lose with a poor officiating - the referee made a bad call and that decision gave madrid the advantage to home in! that said, fergie's selection was also nonsensical. we have enough on the bench to have scored 2-3 goals in the first half!

mourinho admitted his team didnt play well and that's the exact reason i am blaming fergie for this loss. if he had selected a strong team from the onset, maybe we would have had 3 or 4 goals to put the game beyond madrid. if giggs has any dignity left, he should retire tonight!

as predicted, giggsy's 1000th game ended in tears.......

good for fergie!
sorry to the united fans that forked £1000 to see tonight's match but your manager is senile. he cost us this game. a more purposeful united side would have scored more goals before the referee's error of sending nani off

after nani went off at 1-0, a good manager would take out giggs and van persie, bring on rooney and anderson to form a shield protecting the back four. he ignored the warning signs and he ruined another european night for us.

jose mourinho: "the best team lost" - he wants fergie's job!

RuuDie: I see reason with Giggsy's selection; this is a special night for him individually and off all the players out there, he'd probably be the most motivated. . .most pre-match hype has been about CR7 scoring against us, Giggs is our own parallel to that. Imagine him scoring the decider - MAGIC - and this is what European Cup night's are all about!

you are a fergie apologist......
if fergie lines up his wife and his grandparents, you would see a reason why he's done it. there's no way giggs should be starting ahead of any of the players on the bench in this game. giggsy's 1000th game - he should have waited for the fa cup tie against chelsea - not jeopardise our treble dreams!

what a selfish old man giggs is! getting a start ahead of those fine players on our bench. is it merited? what has giggs done this season to even start a game of this magnitude? i pray we go 3 goals down before halftime or pepe destroys giggsy's legs for the rest of his career. if i were giggs, i would tell fergie i don't deserve to start tonight!

how's giggs going to press ozil with rooney and kagawa on the bench? all because of this stüpid 1000th game. i hope he dislocates his knee tonight that would confirm his retirement!

fücking hell - i hate giggs so much right now i could stab him thrice.....

RuuDie: Hold your horses mate. . .footie isn't played on paper or the arm of a couch!

of course, it makes sense to you that ryan giggs at 40 is starting ahead of rooney, kagawa, valencia, young, anderson in our biggest game of the season? are real madrid qpr? no tactical innovation can explain dropping rooney whose contribution in pressing ozil would have been a proper match-up.