Originakalokalo:


You are riding on his mercy.

You can't say this at amadioha's shrine.

Your God is imaginary, I can't ride on his mercy, if your God exist you won't be telling me anything about it. It will do that itself. Your God remains imaginary. F U C K Amadioha, just like your God it I'd also imaginary and can't do more than a dead rat.

Originakalokalo:


Good for you.

F U C K your God he's imaginary can't ever do anything to any one. He exist only inside your deluded imaginations.

Originakalokalo:



You don't know your enemy....This has cost people their lives.

Goliath thought David was his enemy....

He was wrong.... God was. He made God his enemy when he asked... "who is God that is able to deliver you from my hand"

You fight against the Almighty....

You won't survive it. It is an assurance with all certainty.

F u c k your God, he's imaginary. He can't do more than a dead rat. .

Useless meeting that have no use . People are being killed daily in the North, yet these idiots keep meeting daily. .

Who did all that make up on her face?

alphaNomega:
OP abeg leave Bible stories for who wants to believe.

For me not all stories recorded there are true

The bible is a book of fictional tales and fables. .

Originakalokalo:

Jesus had said that greater things than he did ...........we shall do.

Jesus disappeared in a boat with his 12 disciples.

Phillip disappeared after preaching salvation....

Some would say..... It is all in the Bible...

Apostle Ayodele Joseph Babalola of CAC disappeared and got to a crusade ground before his followers who had gone ahead of him in hours. ..

Jesus raised the dead of four days..
Jesus healed a mad man who could cut chains into pieces...

Smith wigglesworth raised the dead In Jesus name... In Europe

Pastor adeboye prayed and a leg that was shorter than the other got balanced with the long one....

Pastor kumuyi prayed in Jesus name and a lame rose up and walked...

Originakalokalo prayed in Jesus name , and a disease of more than 33 years disappeared...

Children of God, please share with us what you have been able to do in Jesus name....

You should also share what others have also done in Jesus name...

All to the Glory of God the Almighty...and to the honour of his lamb Jesus.

Demons of spiritual wickedness tremble at his name...

Jesus is Lord...

Let the thread begin.....

LIES!

LordReed:


That brings to mind one of Jesus' supposed miracles, making a leper whole. I have not heard of this miracle being reproduced by any of the big time pastors or even any one for that matter. Yet their book says greater things they shall do. Hmmmmmm.

I tire oo.

Ranchhoddas:
No I don't. But I have no reason to believe they are lying. And I am not gullible or anything.
Tell me, what would be their motive? The motives of not just one, two, or three people. Many people with different cases of healing.

People lie for various reasons, you might not know their motive doesn't stop them from telling lies. After all you clearly admit that you don't know them and you weren't there.

Oyakhilome's healing school has being going on for years. Do you really want to tell me that no single sick person has being healed for years and it still going on? No one?

Healed of what exactly? Why are clear cut miracles an immpossiblity? Have you ever sat down and asked your self why? Have you ever seen a burn victim healed and had his skin restored back to the way it was? What about an amputee? Have you ever seen the amputated limbs of any body being restored? Pastor Chrishealing school that has been exposed as a scam by many people? SirJohn a nairalander went there like 10 years ago and exposed all the tricks they use there. . .He went there twice and documented everything here, you can look up the name SirJohn and christ embassy healing school. The expose went viral and even the church had to respond. The healing school has since lost its vigor and is no longer what it used to be after the expose. . .

Of course they may be cases of fake miracles, what it means is that not everyone gets healed for some reason or the other. My argument is that some people get miracle cures from religious places. Clear cut medicine-defying miracles that will be visible to any honest and impartial observer.
I am not sure why they happen. But they happen.

To the unbeliever, no proof is enough

Again, why are clear cut miracle always never happening? Why aren't amputees having their amputated limbs restored? Why are burn victims never having their skins restored? Why are babies born with down syndrome never healed? Why are midgets never made tall ? Name one clear cut miracle healing that you have personally witnessed and not hear say. Name just one clear cut miracle healing. . .

Ranchhoddas:
So someone who has been battling the disease for over two decades, has suffered several crises, takes Niprisan on a regular basis, suddenly has no need for any medication immediately after a church service; a service which he fell to the ground without any prompting was improperly diagnosed.

Improper diagnosis? That's your conclusion. I don hear you.

Do you know this individual in person? Is he a friend, family or an aquintance? He was a sickler for 25 years and suddenly got healed by falling down in a church service? Did you observe it happen? They have no reason to lie? Isn't if the same thing people the do IVF tell others? They'll swear that it was their God that gave them the baby and people will say they have no reason to lie. My aunt did it. Her husband is pastor, they had their twins through IVF like 10 years ago when it wasn't evenough popular in Nigeria and swore to who ever cared to listen that it was God. And many believed they had no reason to lie.

felixomor:

Even
Some of them intentionally open multiple fake accounts to Make them seem numerous.

Dont mind them

But so far it's been Christians(your friends)that have been caught replying themselves and liking their post with several different accounts here. .

Abuja is not as fine as it looks in these pictures.

Ihedinobi3:

As I told you, there are only two ways to explain creation (if you disagree, you should proceed to explain why you do):

1. Someone made it.

2. It has always existed.

I believe that it is obvious that #2 is false. If creation has always existed, it would not possess signs of decline and instability and it does.

#1 is therefore the only meaningful way to explain the existence of Creation.

As to the specific identity of this Maker, that can be discovered by comparing what is seen in creation to any claims made regarding who or what made it.

You ask what God's Signature is? My answer is Creation itself. The very nature of Creation (that is, how it works) is the testimony any reasoning person needs to understand Who made it.

Now, if this answer is not good enough for you, you'll need to explain why it isn't. Then you should proceed as well to provide your alternative.

If the universe and everything is energy which it is then it can neither be created nor destroyed but can only keep changing from one form to another. So the way nature works shows how God is? When you observe nature you'll see that it is wasteful, cruel and destructive. That means the nature of your God is wasteful, cruel and destructivebecause that is how nature works.

Your posts are always rife with non sequitur.

First, you obviously cannot give me any reason why I should believe anything you say about the Bible.

Second, I have answered your questions here.

Third, that I give you an answer does not mean that I owe you one. I did not challenge your faith. I did not make an argument that you are refuting. The post that you were responding to was asking the OP a question, challenging the OP's claim with an objection. While it did imply a position, it was not making a formal argument. So, when you say that I claimed this and that, you are actually lying. I do believe that God gave creation and the human conscience as perfect evidence of His existence. But I did not offer an argument about that. Therefore, I really have nothing to defend to you. I am merely indulging you because I believe that every reasonable question and objection has value for me.

All I do is jjst challenge all the claims you are making which to me are just empty because you are just making them without any evidence at all, for example you just said that God gave humans existence perfect example of his existence where? Where in nature is God's perfect example of his existence? Do you know what perfect means? If it's perfect where are you here trying to explain it to me?

If my "evidence" was that important to you, you would not have been challenging my first post on the thread. Rather, you would have challenged my full arguments made both to advance my objection to the thread and develop my own point of view. That is why what you are doing here is only trivial. I don't believe that you deserve anything you are demanding although I have even gone on to give it just because I often use these conversations for purposes of my own.

You are the one claiming God and event trying to tell me how and why it acts. All I do is ack you questions based on your claims. If God created humans then, how did he create the human cells, which materials did he used to create them and which process did he use to give them life? This questions should show any body that is serious that even with the God claim you sti do not know what you are talking about because so far you've only used it as your default position for things you do not know and an assumption as to how you feel things should be. I am interested in knowing if your claims are factual not based on assumptions and opinions.

This is informal debate, it is true, but there are limits to what may be tolerated even here. If you go to so much trouble to get me to give you my time and energy to explain my position to you only for you to answer with questions I already answered and a "do you really know or understand what you are saying at all?" then you lose any goodwill you had with me.

Like I said, I don't owe you any answers. It does nothing for me if you believe in Jesus Christ or if you don't. I believe you should. I would be pleased if you did. I would help you in any way I can in order for you to do so. But whether or not you do does not affect me except only peripherally. So, it is only to your own benefit or harm, not to mine. If, then, you continue this lazy pattern, I will not bother any further with responding to you.

Your logic and claim was absurd that was why I made the statement. I brought up the issue of babits born with congenital diseases and you claimed God allows it because it is good. What is good in a baby born with a congenital disease? If it's good then why are we humans trying our best to change it? You also stated that nature shows God's goodness, if it's true then diseases are good? Why are we eliminating diseases if they are good? Truly I find your claims absurd.

The question was:

how does God's doing anything mean that He "needs" to do it at all?

Was it not you who said that God can do anything He likes? Why does He now need to do anything?

Doing it alone means he wanted it and needed it that's why he did it, since doing it lewd to some desirable end for him from the biblical stories.

1. Who said the Lord Jesus's Promise wasn't fulfilled? Is that another one of your unsubstantiated claims?

2. Even among humans, there is a popular concept called ghostwriting. The inverse of that is what happened with the Bible. God not only commissioned men to write, but He practically wrote through them and allowed them to share credit with Himself although it was really all His Work.

It's not. Again we are told that Jesus was a great miracle worker that did so many wonder that even the book of the world could not carry them if they were to be written. Among the great things he did were that he walked on water, calmed the storm, turned water into wine, raised people that were dead for days, healed amputees and restored their amputated body parts back, feed thousands with few fish and loaves of bread etc. Jesus himself the promised YOU that you'll do greater things than this once you believe in him. You believe in him and I am putting it to you that you can't do any of them. No Christian in the world can do them. It simply means that Jesus lied. That's all.

God the alleged all knowing being practically wrote the bible with humans yet he doesn't know that insects walk on 6 legs? He doesn't know that day and night are caused by the sun? He doesn't know that it is the earth that move round the sun? He doesn't know that stars are far bigger than the eartg and can not fall into the earth etc. God wrote the bible and it is riddle with falsehoods, mythological tales and fiction.





Dalaman, the only claim made here was yours. I have an even lower limit on falsehoods than I have on frivolity.

It is an axiom, a manifest principle in itself that everything that is made is itself a witness to its maker. If this were not true then investigation as a practice would not exist especially in art and crime, for example. The way the thing made or done is made or done (that is, how it works) is conclusive proof of the nature of its maker or doer.

Now, unless you disagree either that

1. the world around us cannot always have existed;

OR

2. that there are only two options to explain it,

then the only question we have to answer is whose nature is evident in creation.

To answer that, we look at the claims made for creator. If Jesus Christ, then is His Nature evident in Creation? If Brahmin, is its nature evident in Creation? If Allah, is his nature evident in Creation? And so on.

My position is that the Nature of the Trinity is very evident in creation. The Trinity (best known in Jesus Christ) is the Only Contender that perfectly explains existence.

To give you two examples how this is so...

1. The Trinity is a multiple-Person God. As such, that explains why things exist in groups related intimately to one another.

2. The Trinity is Just and Righteous. That explains why Death exists and why creation is in decline while at the same time things are seen to be renewed a lot and sometimes miraculously saved from destruction as if by the skin of the teeth.

These are just empty hypotheticals. Nothing stops a single person God that has rhe abilitu to do all things from doing any of the things you have stated at all. So long as he wants it and has the ability to do it nothing stops him. I fail to see any point in what you have written simply because a single person God that can do anything and has that ability can do it. A single person God with unlimited knowledge and ability can form groups and do what ever it wants.

This is a good opportunity to explain why I restrict a lot of my responses to yours and other atheists' arguments and essentially only answer direct questions. Clearly, we argue from completely different axioms. What I take for granted that you would know and understand you antichristians often are ignorant of or at least reject.

There is such a thing as consistency, for example. It is a natural principle. Things that are consistent with each other explain each other satisfactorily.

It is not consistent for a God Whose nature is not fellowship- and relationship-inclined to create a universe that is fellowship- and relationship-themed.

That is why the claim that Allah created this universe is manifestly false. He wouldn't because he couldn't.

Understand that I cannot convince you of this if you reject the axiom involved in the first place. And I have no intention to bother to do so.

You are telling lies, even among the names of Allah he is known and called the most merciful, the most benevolent, the most gracious, the just. That shows that he is a fellow ship and relationship God. Only a God that fellowships and relates with his creations shows mercy, kindness, is just and also gracious. Saying that Allah isn't fellow ship and relationship inclined is a lie.

I was under no obligation to explain it to you in the first instance. I have even less interest in showing you any biblical support for it. Still...


[10]And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac;
[11]for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
[12]it was said to her, "The older will serve the younger."
[13]Just as it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
[14]What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!
[15]For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
[16]So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
[17]For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth."
[18]So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
[19]You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"
[20]On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?
[21]Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?
[22]What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?
[23]And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,
[24]even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.
Romans 9:10-24 NASB

Note in particular the text that is both in bold and underlined.

To make it simple, God is merciful and does wish for everyone to be saved. Therefore, He does not prevent them from being saved. That is what Paul said there. But God is also omniscient and knows that no matter what is done for or to some people, they will never willingly obey Him. Therefore, while God does indeed provide them with every opportunity and every resource that they require to choose to be saved, He uses them as agents for His Purposes according to their own nature as "vessels of wrath" which will only eventually be destroyed.

In this way, Pharaoh whose heart was already hard toward God was given even more opportunity to grow more hardened against God. So he did. As God knew he would. And that was used by God to demonstrate His Power to the world by breaking an unusually arrogant man.

Even the biblical verses you quoted all stand against what you said initially which was that God was allowing him more room than usual to make a decision about God. The verses clearly said that God harden his heart for a reason and to achieve a purpose. Paul even said who are you a pot to question the potter because the potter has the right to do what ever he wants with the pot. He hardeens who he desires and have mercery on who he desires, again the bible doesn't support your first claim at all.

here did I claim that God cannot reveal Himself to anyone? And what claims did I make here that are empty?

I have no idea why you think that seeing God would convince you of His Existence when you reject the evidence of creation and your own conscience. You will see God eventually. We all will. But today, God commands faith and gives as a basis for it the world around you and your own conscience. If you will not willingly believe today, you will lose all ability to doubt at the Judgment of the White Throne. But at that time, your belief will do you no good at all.

As for what convinces people, this is a true story that the Lord Jesus told in the Bible:


[19]"Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day.
[20]And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores,
[21]and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores.
[22]Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
[23]In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
[24]And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'
[25]But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.
[26]And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'
[27]And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house-
[28]for I have five brothers-in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
[29]But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
[30]But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!'
[31]But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'"
Luke 16:19-31 NASB

That is, nothing will convince anybody who doesn't want to believe. Not even a veiled vision of God Himself. The only thing that will end all doubt is God's Appearance in His Glory. And when that happens, free will will be negated so that you have absolutely no choice but to believe. But at that point, you will not be saved. That is why it is only at the Last Judgment (not counting the Second Advent for the Beast and all those who take his mark) that all deniers and doubters will see God.

Creation is not evidence for the existence of God. Didn't God know that creation is evidence for his existence when he revealed himself to Paul on the road to Damascus? Did Paul deny his existence after that? Why do yu keep saying that if God reveals himself to peoplelike me we won't believe? Did Paul disbelieve? Did the projects of Baal disbelieve? Why are you the one knowing what will happen? Who are you?

God does what God does because God wants to do it and it is consistent with God's Nature.

And showing himself physically is against his mature? .he told you that when and where?

LordReed:


Wow really?

Yeah, it was added by a scribe. Doesn't appear in the original manuscripts. Many bible versions acknowledge to the fact. There are other few minor ones as well. That are just a sentence mostly.

LordReed:


OK what other verses are additions that don't fit.

The story of Jesus and the adulterous woman ( him wothout sin should cast the fiest stone)was also added by scribes and some others.

Ihedinobi3:

What? You started a conversation on the back of a response I made to a completely different conversation and you insist I made a claim? What is the matter with you? You felt the need to come and tell me how there is no God and I'm the one responsible to prove otherwise to you? Why should I care what you want to believe?.

You claimed that creation is evidence for God and I asked you to prove your claim. What is the evidence that things we see around were created by Yahweh? His signature is where? Again when I look at the asteriods I'll know that Yahweh created them how?

You also believe that there is no God in spite of the witness of Creation and your own conscience. Why should I believe anything you say about what has to do with God and what doesn't?

I am only challenging your claims. Now you are talking about witness of creation. Where you a witness to when things were created? The things we see in nature attest to Yahweh how? The polio virus attest to Yahweh how? You are just making empty claims. When asked to provide evidence you try to run aay by saying you don't owe me anything when all you've been doing since is trying to explain to me things about your God and even telling me how he acts and operates. If you owe me no explanation thend why waste your time telling me how your God acts and why he does things. It's only when you are stuck that you cone up with these lame exudes else explaining your God and how you feel.it's cats is what you are always doing when you engage other atheist and me.

So, seeing as I made no claims to you, empty or not, I am not in your debt at all. That is what you were doing your best her to avoid saying, isn't it? Rather, you are the one who decided to come and educate me on how there is no God. But because you have absolutely no proof that there is none, you want me to do your work for you? Not going to happen. If you want to show me that there is no God, go on and do so. I'm listening.

You just claimed that creation serves as evidence of God. Where is your evidence for this empty claim? If I tell you that you are evidence for evolution you'll ask me to provide evidence for my claims. Your own evidence for your claims are where? You made a claim about God and I said you should provide evidence for it. That's all I've stated right from the beginning. You keep saying God this and God that but even with your God hypothesis you can not tell me anything about creation. You just keep saying God as if it explains anything. God is just your default position for I don't know. Else you should be able to use God and explain to me how cells came about and what God used to created them and also the process he used to bring them to life.

1. I will answer any questions that are reasonable even if all you mean by them is to try to prove one false point or another. But I won't make your arguments for you. It's not my problem if you believe in God or if you do not. Great for you if you do, bad for you if you don't. I'm on the sidelines here. I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and am working at following Him closely everyday. That is my business.

2. Babies don't do anything until they are born. But all human children are born from human parents with damaged bodies and that does affect the human children sometimes. And God allows it also for the good. An argument that it is some kind of proof that God doesn't exist is non sequitur. An argument that it is proof that God is evil is an argument from silence.

LOL! God allows a baby with down syndrome for which God? A baby born with a congenital heart disease serves what God? Do you really know or understand what you are saying at all? LOL!

So, basically, you don't know why He has to do so. You just demand that He should do so because you want Him to. Because you want Him to take orders from you, right?

And God told you that he won't or can't provide physical proof of himself when and where? The bible is full of God providing physical proof of himself in many places, it's funny that you keep saying that God doesn't need to. God told you that when and where? If it's of no importance he won't take all the troubles he did to show the people like he did according to the bible.

Still no proofs that the Bible was written by men etc. Just more tantrums and foot-stamping.

When you've been knocked out you label it as tantrum as if it means anything. If the bible is true Jesu'so promise to you will manifestin your live. You will be doing so many wonders like he died, but the fact that you are unable to do anything nt even one says that the promise is a lie.

Books are a humans creation, same is writing. The bible is a book, written by humans who even have their names as the titles of some of the books. Humans wrote the bible and there's nothing inside the book that humans could not have written. Nothing at all. It remains a book written by humans.

1. Even if studies showed that only one person in all of human history has ever converted, they immediately make you a liar. The point is that it is possible. And it has happened.

It has happened in all directions. Christians that convert to Islam were also made to do so by Allah. If your claim is true.

2. Refer to my earlier answers. The world around us and our own consciences are the witnesses.
[quote]

The world around us is evidence for the existence of the world, that's all, it's not evidence for Yahweh. Let me play your games too. You are telling lies, consiousness is evidence for natural selection.

[quote]
The issue is not power or ability. It is character. A single-person God would simply not create groups. That is because it would go against its character to do so. That is an impossibility: for a God to act contrary to its own nature.

A single person God will not create groups if it wants because of what ? Because your said so? There is nothing about groups that goes against a single person God. It's just anot emlty claim you made out of thin air. A single person God that wants and is able to create anything can do so. Allah wants to create humans and he did. Nothing in his single nature goes agains him creating humans to serve him as a loyal slave. You are just making empty claims as always.

"Hindus generally accept the doctrine of transmigration and rebirth and the complementary belief in karma. The whole process of rebirth, called samsara, is cyclic, with no clear beginning or end, and encompasses lives of perpetual, serial attachments. Actions generated by desire and appetite bind one’s spirit (jiva) to an endless series of births and deaths. Desire motivates any social interaction (particularly when involving sex or food), resulting in the mutual exchange of good and bad karma. In one prevalent view, the very meaning of salvation is emancipation (moksha) from this morass, an escape from the impermanence that is an inherent feature of mundane existence. In this view the only goal is the one permanent and eternal principle: the One, God, brahman, which is totally opposite to phenomenal existence."
- https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hinduism/Karma-samsara-and-moksha

Granted that Hinduism is a chaos with all sorts of colliding "truths", Moksha has one core meaning, it appears, to all Hindu schools. That meaning is one of release or freedom from the sufferings of this life. The prevalent view spoken of above is very likely the idea of being absorbed back into the Brahmin and becoming one with the All and thus escaping this world of pain.

Do you follow?

The Hindus Gods created the material world. I dot really understand this your rigmarole.

o I care whether you believe that I am making empty claims or not? As a matter of fact, what claims have I made to you exactly? Did you not start the conversation to educate me how there is no God?

I started the conversation to ask you to proof your assertions.

Is He obliged to do it now?

Why not?

It is not a lie. What God has to do to harden a heart is merely take an obstinate person and give them a "stretchier" free will, if you want. That is, these people gain an ability to resist God far longer than human beings ordinarily can. But the flip side of that ability is that they can also use it to submit to God having seen just how great His Power is.

But even if He hardened Pharaoh's heart, what is that to you? Did He harden your own? If He has, too bad for you. You are still His creation and He can do anything He wishes with you. But do you know that He has?

It's a lie because non of what you've stated is written inside the bible. You just made it up to explain absurdity away. The bible even said that Pharoah acted exactly as God has stated and wanted him to as a result of hardening his heart. I dropped the verse, you can read it again, nothing there comes close to what you just made up.

1. It's just common sense. I know that common sense means different things for Christians and atheists but you decided to come and educate a Christian so you'll have to deal with the consequences. God being God is not your subordinate. So, it is absurd to imagine that He owes you anything. In fact, He is by definition your overlord and you owe him your very self.

2. I'm telling you everything I am because you asked.

3. I do not speak for any other Christians. I speak for myself and represent what I have learned from the Bible. Feel free to interrogate those who tell you to ask God to reveal Himself to you.

Where did God tell you that he can't reveal himself to people? Where? According to the tale God knows me more than I even know myself and he knows exactly what will convince me, so what exactly are you even talking about? If it's true, then you don't even need to be making any excuses since you aren't God and he didn't tell you what he can or canot do at any time. Why are you making empty claims on his behalf?

The passage doesn't say. You'll have to interrogate the scribe who wrote it in.

But in the actual Bible where it speaks of such things, the signs were signatures that the man doing them was God's emissary and should be listened to. But these days, only the Bible has been given as an endorsement. If anyone speaks contrary to the Bible, no matter what "signs" they may be seen to do, they are to be rejected.

Interrogate which scribe? You see, you even said that when the bible speaks of such, the person is God's emissary that should be listened to. Why use signs for his emmisaries? Because he knows they are important.

Ihedinobi3:

So, basically, you have no actual reason for dismissing God as the explanation of creation. Why again do I owe you any arguments for God, remind me?

I said God is our ignorance. You are the one calming God remember, you said God created but yet you can not use God to explain anything about creation. How did God create the cells, what material did he use to create the human cell, which mechanism did he use to give them life? Use God alone and explain these things to me, or is your own God only used to explain empty stories and mythologies? I noticed if I ask you questions like this yu always claim that you don't owe me any explanations, but it's it's questions that relate to biblical mythologies you begin to write long tales explaining it away. . .How convinient. . You ate professing God so use God and explain to me how things came about. How did God create the human cell?

1. Yes, in all those things you mentioned, God's righteous nature is shown. In a world full of rebellion against God, of course, God will punish rebellion and limit it with things like that. But God also has faithful subjects in the mix, so, for their sakes, He will provide escapes from the destroying nature of His agents of punishment. Medical science and technology can be one such escape.

God's righteous nature is shown in the polio virus how? If God is using polio virus to punish people that it has failed because humans have eradicated polio in most part of the world. So that means humans are eliminating God's punishment. Medical science and technology are human inventions and have nothing to do with any God. So your claim here is empty and false.

2.Why again do I owe you any answers at all, remind me?

Why make empty claims? You are the one saying creation explains God's nature. You are evening trying to use what we see in nature to explain God, you even said God uses diseases to punish people. That is false because people are conquering diseases. So according to your theory humanso are greater than God because they are conquering what he uses to punish them. Very funny. . .

The world is evil, so evil things happen to it because of God's Justice. If they didn't, human beings would only wax worse and worse until they destroyed themselves by their own selves. So, even in Justice, God is Love.

Now you are trying to explain how God operates because you feel it's convinient. Later when you get hooked you'll start saying that you don't owe me any explanation. Funny you.

So a baby born with congenital diseases is God's justice because the baby did what? God is love but yet infects babies with congenital heart diseases or diseases like down syndrome that makes them mentally unstable all their lives because he is love? What kind of love is that? So a baby born with down syndrome is God's justice because the baby did what?

I'm afraid I cannot see how any of this answers my question. Even if God did appear to people in the Bible to prove His Existence (and I am yet to see any proof of such a thing in your comments), I cannot see how His doing so means that He has to do so. It's a non sequitur as far as I can see.

So, why does He have to do so, dalaman? Is it only things that we can see that are true?

Because God wants people to believe in him and according to the bible he did so many wonders just to convince the people. It's funny that it's only God that you go gaga when people ask for physical proof of his existence. Remember that this said God we are told came and lived with men and went around preaching about himself by himself to men. If God can come down and live with men what stops himself from doing it now? Why did he have to come down and live with men according to stories? Because he knew it was important else he wouldn't have done that.

All I see here are more wild claims but no proofs. It was proofs I asked for, dalaman, not foot-stamping and tantrums.

Jesus himself promised YOU the ability to do things greater than he did. If it's true you'll be doing those things. You will be a living example and witness to show that the biblentire is true. We won't be having this conversation if the bible is true. The promise willike be evident in your life and we will see it. But the fact that you can't do anything despite the promise says it's a lie. .

Actually it is your own point that you just contradicted. If people are limited only to the traditions in which they are born as you claimed at first, then, Muslims and Hindus cannot become Christians nor can Christians become Muslims and Hindus. But evidently they do. So, where and into what circumstances anybody is born does not limit the efficacy of the Word of God at all.

Studies have shown that the number of people that convert to other religions are so insignificant. Almost all people practice the religion of their parents. But which one is the word of God? Is it the bible? Koran? Verdes? They all claim they are word of God? How do we know which is true and which is false? How can you demonstrate that the Bible is true and the Koran false in reality?

I already explained how it is inconsistent. If Allah is a Single-Person Being, it makes no sense that He would create things in families and units (or groups) of individuals.

Why won't it make sense that is what he wants? According to the Quran all Allah needs to make anything happen is just to say be and it will happen. He is also all knowing so him alone knows why he created things according to the Koran.

Your honesty here, although very long in coming, is refreshing.

Hinduism is proved false by the world around us because it rejects material existence. That was what I was saying.

Hinduism rejects material existence according to who? Your lies? The Hindu Gods created material existence so how does it reject material existence?

Why do I owe you any "showing" of anything? I am happy to answer any, at least, seeming honest questions but I am not a dog that rolls over and plays dead when you say so.

Because that is the only objective way for me to know that you aren't making empty claims. You are the one making the claims. Show me one thing that Yahweh can do that Allah and Brahma can't.


[/quote] Yes indeed, miracles happened at Elijah's hand to demonstrate that the Lord God is the True God and Baal was a lie. But who said anything about convincing anybody there? As I said, God did very much to show that people will only believe if they want to, not because of any miracle. Israel did not believe in God after that experience in spite of their emotional response after the fire came down. Elijah had to flee for his life right after because of Jezebel's hard heart. And not long after, the Northern Kingdom where Elijah had been ministering was destroyed because of their relentless disobedience against God in spite of not only the miracles from Elijah but also from Elisha immediately after Elijah. So, no convincing. Miracles have always been given by God but everybody who has believed in God has always done so because they wanted to. [/quote]

If God can do it then, what's stopping him from doing it now? After all when he did the Elijah test he proved himself against the prophets of Baal. Why is it that all your God's actions are only in stories?

1. About Pharaoh... God's part in hardening his heart was merely allowing him more room than usual to make a decision about God. That is, Pharaoh saw enough to be rightly and thoroughly terrified of God and cease resisting Him but he did not want to stop even though he was terrified so God gave him more ability than usual to make a decision. But rather than use the extra capacity to repent, he chose to defy God some more. That is normal to rebellious human beings. Those who hate God will only keep resisting Him with all the ability they have. Pharaoh hardened his own heart to a degree that was only possible because God allowed him even more opportunity to choose than is normally given to human beings. That was the meaning of "God hardened his heart".

God hardernd his heart to allow him more room make a decision about God? That is a lie. You just made that up. According to the bible God hardened his heart so that he will act in a particular way. God according to the story already knew he will act accordingly after hardening his heart.

But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses. Exodus 9:12.

Nothing like giving him room to to make any decision like you lied.

2. Where does the Bible say any such thing?

3. As I said, nobody has ever lacked for anything that they have needed in order to believe in God if they want to. Nobody. If seeing miracles will make anyone believe, they will see them. If seeing visions will make them believe, they will see them. But it is foolishness to think that you will have visions and miracles if you insist on having God come to you on your terms. He does not owe anybody that. He is God and He commands everybody to repent or else. If you don't want to heed that command, the only thing that will ever make you submit to Him is when you stand before Him and see His Glory and realize that you simply cannot ever in an infinity of lifetimes defeat Him. The smallness of you compared to Him then will force you to your knees. But that would be because your free will has finally been destroyed. No miracle or vision will do that. And while every human being and angel will most definitely fall down and worship God in the end, not a single one who only does it because they no longer have a choice in the matter will be saved.

When did any God appear to you personally and told you that he doesn't owe appearing to peeople personally? When did he tell you that? Why are you giving me your opinion of how you feel God should act? When did he tell you that? Now to free will those that claim God appears to them, what about their own freewill? Don't even Christians tell people to ask God to reveal himself to them? Didn't they know about free will before saying that?

Although that is not part of the Bible (therefore I am under no obligation to defend or answer for it in any way), I will answer as if it is: where does it say there that any of that will make any unbeliever believe in God?

It's from the Bible. The sings that will follow the believers is for what?

Ihedinobi3:

Yes, you absolutely do. You are claiming "no God". And all I am asking you to do is tell me how everything can exist without a God to explain it.

God is just our ignorance, it's just empty claims without evidence. I don't need to make empty claims about things I don't know. People use God to fill in gaps of knowledge that's why there are different God ideas all used to explain things differently. Even with God nothing has been explained. You believe God created humans for example but can you tell me what God used to create the human cells? What process did he use to put life into the human cell? What materials did he use to create the cells? Use God alone and give me the answer to those questions since you are claiming God.

1. The very nature of things speaks to what made them. The way they work always testifies to the purpose(s) that they serve. That is what the signature of a maker upon his work always is.

So the nature of virus that causes diseases speaks to the nature of Yahweh, the nature of earth quakes also does that? What about the nature of pathogens and how wild nature is? The purpose of pathogens is to cause diseases, we as humans are always trying to eliminate them, so God made their purpose to eliminate us with diseases while we are constantly trying to destroy them from carrying out God's purpose. So the signature of God is in diseases causing pathogens.

I want you to show me God's signature not make empty claims like you just did. These are just empty claims that have no evidence at all. If God has a signature it will be known and seen, how come anybody looking at pathogens doesn't see any God's signature in them?

. Without being told, no one would know the specific identity of a creator. The same applies to God. But when you are told, you can tell whether what you are told is true by comparing what you see to what you hear about the maker.

How do you compare a loving God and a God that creates disease pathogens? How do you compare a loving God to a God that allegedly creates babies with congenital diseases that humans are constantly trying to correct and make right?

. Why does God have to appear to anybody to prove anything? Is it only things we see that are true?

That's what he does in some parts of the bible. Send signs to people so that they know that he exist and wants them to follow and obey him. If God wants people to know that he exist then he needs to show them that he exist, there is nothing in nature that says anything about Yahweh. You can never know anything about Yahweh just by looking at nature. You'll have to be told about Yahweh before you get to know about it not by lookin at Nature, our ancestors lived for thousands of years and studied nature, they never got to know anything about Yahweh until the Europeans came and introduced them to it.

1. Per the Bible, why should I believe anything you say about the Bible? Where is the proof of the things you claim?

The bible was written by me, fact
There is nothing written inside the bible that men can not write. Fact.
The bible contains fiction and mythologies that don't happen. A man can not live inside a fish for 3 days for example, if the bible is true you would have been able to show it. After all Jesus promised those of you the ability to do greater things than he did, we were told he was a great miracle worker that did so.many wonder that if theyvwere to be written the books of the world at that time could not contain them, he walked on water, turned water into wine, feed 5 thousand with few fish and loaves of bread, raiser the dead, healed amputees etc and PROMISED those of you that believe in him the ability to go greater things than he did. You can't do any of it because it's a lie. If it's rrue you'll be doing the things Jesus did because he promised you that ability if ONLY you believe in him. You can't do any because it's a lie.

2. There are Muslims and Hindus who have become believers. In my culture, which is a parallel here, my grandfather was born into an ancient and entrenched tradition that had other gods and other philosophies. But he became a Christian when he heard the Gospel too.

There are Christians who become Muslims and Hindus too, many people of traditional african religions became Muslims after being exposed to Islam and reading the Koran. So I don't see your point.

1. Islam, for one thing, believes in a Single-Person God Who has always existed alone. That is inconsistent with creation. There is a multiplicity of individuals everywhere you look which speaks to the existence of a God Who must understand "fellowship" and "relationship" and "family", that is, a God for Whom a cohesive unit of individuals is normal.

How is it inconsistent with creation? What stops an all powerful supreme being that can do anything from creating the universe? You've not shown how an all powerful being that can do all things(Allah) lacking the ability to be able to create the universe. . . .It's just an empty claim. Muslims believe Allah to be all powerful and having the ability to do all things. That alone is enough for him to create the universe since he wants it.

induism holds that material existence is the "enemy" here. That is, it is the "hell" we all need to and are trying to escape from. That is also inconsistent with creation. Everything that surrounds us teaches us that although there is much pain and sorrow in material existence, they are more like blemishes on an otherwise perfect system. That is, the problem cannot be material existence although it is true that material existence is not perfect.

I really don't understand the point you are trying to make here.

These are just illustrations.

2. What reason do I have to show you anything like that?

I don't want illustrations because they are empty. Show me something that is real. After all you claim your God is real. I want you to show me something that your God an do that Allah and Brahma can not do so that we will know that your God is real and those other Gods are not real. That's why I want you to do that.

1. What is your proof that God ever used miracles to convince anyone of anything?

The bible. He used miracles to show the prophets of Baal that he can do what Baal can't. Remember the test with Elijah? That was to convince the people and show them that he is real, and that Baal is false.

2. The purpose of miracles is varied in the Bible. Sometimes, God intervened in the natural order of things to deliver those who were faithful to Him. Sometimes, He offered extra proof of Himself and His Power to otherwise obstinate people in case they really cared to know about Him. In the vast majority of these latter instances, the obstinate people never believed and the Bible teaches that this is because faith in God is a free will choice. The only way anyone can be forced to believe in God is if He takes away their free will by appearing to them in His Majesty. But He never does. Whenever He appeared to human beings in the Bible, He did it in such a way that that person could later deny to themselves that they ever saw God. Witness Pharaoh's response to Moses's miracles. Consider also Israel during the Exodus.

But God hardened Pharaoh's heart according to the story, so it wasn't his fault. According to the bible God used miracles to make people believe in him. And many did believe in him. He tells and warns people that he will magically infect them with diseases or disasters unless they obey him and all. Meaning that he wants to use signs to make them believe because he knows that such things are very important.

3. Where does the Bible say anything about signs that believers will have so that unbelievers will believe?

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover.

Nevee:
This is a bad omen, anywhere. Someone who was once responsible for maintaining the territorial integrity your country killed like that.

He stole a lot of the money.

felixomor:


After saying they dont exist!

Hehehe, anyway

Yahweh and Jesus are idiots. Idiotic animals. .

Ihedinobi3:

To be honest, I am not sure how this is any kind of response to my comment. So I will treat it like a completely different argument than the thread to which I was responding in the comment.

Your challenge: "Your evidence that God created all we see is what? When did any God personally appear to you and told you that she created anything? Where is God's signature in any thing that was created?"

My response: Let me put it this way: if you don't believe that God made everything you see (and far much more that you cannot), you assume the responsibility to explain how it all exists. What are your hypotheses and proofs?

I don't need to make any hypothesis or guess. You are claiming God and all I'm asking you is if God personally appeared to you and told you anything about him creating the universe. Did God tell you personally or do you just believe what others have said about what they call God?

Your challenge: "If you were not indoctrinated with the Yahweh stories, how will you be able to know that Yahweh and not Brahma created the universe?"

My response: The world around us and our own selves either corroborate or refute the claims made about them.

Where in the world does Yahweh's signature appear? Without being told how did you get to know that Yahweh created the Atlantic Ocean ? You mentioned yourself, did Yahweh personally appear to you and told you he created anything?

b]Your challenge:[/b] "So the bible which is the words of men is your evidence for God?"

My response: First, it is your claim that the Bible is the words of men, not mine. As such, it is up to you to say why you make such a claim. Second, I have not offered you any such evidence for God. The only evidence that God has given for His Existence and for His Character according to the Bible is creation itself and human conscience.

Of course the bible is the words of men, men wrote down all the books and all its claim. Tell me something written inside the bible that could not have been written by men. The bible remains the thoughts, ideas, conceptions, fiction and mythological writings of men. If you know any part of the bible that wasn't written by men, you should point to it. If the bible is the word of God then why does it rely on indoctrination and place of birtg for people to believe it? If you were born into a Sunni myslim family in Saudi Arabia today you'll be a sunni Muslim, if you were born to a Shire family in Iran a Shire Muslim or a Hindu family in Mumbai you'll be Hindu. You were born in a Christian family and the surrounding culture hence you are a Christian. Why does God's word depend on accident of birth to people? Again, nothing on the bible wasn't written by men and no thoughts inside isn't human thoughts or ideas, if you know any then show it.

Your challenge: "Why not the Koran or the Hindus Verdes? Thesent books are also evidence for Allah and Brahma."

My response: I am not a Muslim or a Hindu. But what I do know from and about the Bible convinces me that it is the Truth and what I do know about Islam and Hinduism also convinces me that they are lies.

What about Islam and Hinduism convinces you that they are lies? Can you show me anything that Yahweh can do that Allah or Brahma can not do? In fact go ahead and show me one things that Yahweh can do that these two Gods can not do, from there we'll know if they are lies.

Your challenge: "Even in the bible God was all over the place using miracles and physical proof of himself just to force the people and make them believe in him."

My response: This is an example of a straw man fallacy. Where does the Bible say anything like what you just said? Why do you not consider that God used miracles and physical proofs to demonstrate that as long as creatures have free will, nothing will make them believe in Him if they don't want to?

If God knows that humans will not believe him why use miracles to convince them? What was the purpose of the miracles? Wasn't it to show his might, power and special abilities? Even the bible talks about signs that believers will have so that unbelievers will see and believe. If it isn't important it won't be stated.

felixomor:



[img]https://i./NMYW.gif[/img]

Still doesn't stop Yahweh and Jesus from being idiotic and foolish animals.

belva5:

my prayer for u is that u will see the light before u die.
I honestly wish that God will have mercy on u before u die

Death is always what you are afraid of. Your god remains imaginary.

felixomor:


Gibberish

Yahweh is a fool, so also is Jesus. Both uselse and foolish imaginary idiots you've been indoctrinated with by ancient fools to believe in their fictional stories. Even you know that they are imaginary fools that can't do anything. If it were before you'll be telling me to insult Yahweh and see if he doesn't kill me . Yahweh and Jesus are foolish animals.

felixomor:


Hehehe the f00lish animal is out again

Yahweh and Jesus are foolish animals.

Ihedinobi3:
Perhaps. But God did preserve creation, your conscience and the reality of physical death and none of those things convince you despite their ubiquity in the Bible. Why would any of these other subjective proofs you desire make any difference that these aren't making?

Your evidence that God created all we see is what? When did any God personally appear to you and told you that she created anything? Where is God's signature in any thing that was created? If you were not indoctrinated with the Yahweh stories, how will you be able to know that Yahweh and not Brahma created the universe? So the bible which is the words of men is your evidence for God? Why not the Koran or the Hindus Verdes? Thesent books are also evidence for Allah and Brahma.

Even in the bible God was all over the place using miracles and physical proof of himself just to force the people and make them believe in him. .

felixomor:

Lol
The irony is that without religious people who believed in God and championed science
You wont even know jack....

Abeg stop throwing tantrums jare.
The word of God remains
Even long after you are dead and rotten

It will still remain.

God told you he has words where and when? Men like you wrote down books and you believe them when they tell you that it is some word of some God they imagined abi? Felixmoron. . .

OpenYourEyes1:


Thesame way a freemason built and donated the sun god/lucifer statue(statue of liberty) in New York?



Conspiracy theory is better than outright lies and deceits by evil forces in power. It is not a crime as far as I can tell. Satanic elite groups and their undercover agents hate investigative journalism and Conspiracy theory.

Crazy Conspiracy Theories That Turned Out to Be True
https://www.rd.com/culture/conspiracy-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-true/

Empty conspiracies and delusions.

sexybaby22:


He has a child from an extramarital affair but I thought they had gotten over that issue. They might be having money related issue now cuz I don't think he gets shows like before. When a man adds cheating to being broke, the wife will definitely get tired nau?

I know about his money issues but he has some investments that give him something. He isn't broke yet, he is just an unfaithful husband that rubs it on his wife's face. He goes about his infidelity business openly.

sexybaby22:


Really?
Heard she was also cheating on him with an MC!!!

I know her well. They've been having infidelity issues since 2016. But it was him she was blaming at that time.

I know his wife oo. . .

Ihedinobi3:

LOL. And he goes and makes even more claims. I could also claim that you can never make a complete sentence when you decide to write here. Would my saying so make it true?



LOL. You went and dug up Logicboy's old mantra? Can you prove it any better than he can? Also, if I do claim that I have been misunderstood, have I failed to demonstrate how at any point?



They are all right there ready for refutation if you can manage it.



This is just unfortunate. This answer right here is just really unfortunate.

My very first post answered his arguments. He too knows it because he said as much. The problem was that he didn't quite realize that I had already scored - which is why he took off running and complaining about walls of text when it was only Truth that scared him, Truth which himself knows quite well although he thought his great intellect would protect him from it.

So, dalaman, go and read my first post - and the ones that followed as well.

Your first post was just riddled with falsehoods, no wonder he didn't want to engage you any further.

For example you claim that:

"What the Holy Spirit was given to believers for is to enable us to fight through an increasingly hostile world to get to the marvelous rewards of the world to come, not to prove that we are better at doing the things of this life than unbelievers whose world this is anyway".

The bible always talks about Christians being able to do greater things than the unbelievers because they have the spirit of God in them. No where in the bible does it say that Christians will be less than unbelievers in doing exploits. The bible that even says Christians shall do greater things than what Jesus did. Then you conclude that the world belongs to unbelievers. Something that isn't even written anywhere inside the bible. Shown me where it says that the earth belongs to unbelievers. The bible in many places clearly states that the earth belongs to God. You just go about with empty claims and when people fail to address them because of how off you've gone you run around claiming Victory. Your arguments are very boring sincerely speaking that'swhy I don't like engaging you myself.