₦airaland Forum

Maria-Goretti:
fulfilling his promises

Maria-Goretti:
fulfilling his promises

Syncan: My spirit rejoices in God my Saviour

For He has looked upon His servant in her lowliness

Ubenedictus: superior do you know any catholic who prays "in the name of mary"?

superior1: Their death were not written in the scriptures

superior1: Jumping from Gospel and looking for backup in Epistles without a line of
reference is a terrible way of interpreting the Bible. The account of
Jesus life is adequately represented in the Gospel and whatever is not
written there is not part of the scripture.

The Epistle written to Thessalonians is different from Corinthians and
so others, all making and addressing different points. They all
represented all Paul's teaching which he received from Jesus Christ. If
it is verbal instruction and not written, it is not part of the
scriptures.

superior1: Jumping from Gospel and looking for backup in Epistles without a line of
reference is a terrible way of interpreting the Bible. The account of
Jesus life is adequately represented in the Gospel and whatever is not
written there is not part of the scripture.

The Epistle written to Thessalonians is different from Corinthians and
so others, all making and addressing different points. They all
represented all Paul's teaching which he received from Jesus Christ. If
it is verbal instruction and not written, it is not part of the
scriptures.

daontop: @damerry, nice thread bro
@Syncan.. thumbs up..
@Maria, kudos..
I had wantd 2 comment on dis thread b4 nw cos i bliv we all could learn smtin frm here bt wot i realized is dat our bros superior1's mind is already made up, ur motive is not to learn bt to ridicule catholics, both her teachings nd tradations, all ur previous comments on dis thread nd oda threads made it obvious... Which syncan pointd out several tyms, wel more grease 2ur elbow wit dat.... I wasnt thr wen d angel came 2visit Mary nor do i no y God choose her 2b d channel thru which our Jesus can com 2the world, but i definately no dat thr is smtin God saw in her dat made him wait 4 million years b4 comin 2us which i bliv no oda person in d world possesses again which mkes her diff frm odas no wonder wen Elizabeth saw her She said "Wen you greeted me, the child in my womb lept for joy" nd the bible recorded that she sang a song which she said "ALL GENERATIONS SHALL CALL ME BLESSED"... So if u bliv Marys marriage was consumated in sex, gud luck nd if u dnt, same applies.....
Leaving you with the words of one priest i love... Bishop Fulton Sheen
" There are not over a hundred people in the
United States who hate the Catholic Church.
There are millions, however, who hate what
they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church—which is, of course, quite a different thing. These millions can
hardly be blamed for hating Catholics because Catholics “adore statues;” because they “put the Blessed Mother on the same level with God;” because they “say indulgence is a permission to commit sin;” because the Pope “is a Fascist;” because the Church “is the defender of Capitalism.” If the Church taught or believed any one of these things, it should be hated, but the fact
is that the Church does not believe nor teach any one of them. It follows then that the hatred of the millions is directed against error and not against truth. As a matter of fact, if we Catholics believed
all of the untruths and lies which were said
against the Church, we probably would hate
the Church a thousand times more than they
do. If I were not a Catholic, and were looking for the true Church in the world today, I would look for the one Church which did not get along well with the world; in other words, I would look for the Church which the world hates. My reason for doing this would be, that if Christ is in any one of the churches of the world today, He must still be hated as He was when He was on earth in the flesh. If you would find Christ today, then find the Church that does not get along with the world. Look for the Church that is hated by the world, as Christ was hated by the world. Look for the Church which is accused of being behind the times, as Our Lord was accused of being ignorant and never having learned. Look for the Church which men sneer at as socially inferior, as they sneered at Our Lord because He came from Nazareth. Look for the Church which is accused of having a devil, as Our Lord was accused of being possessed by Beelzebub, the Prince of Devils. Look for the Church which the world rejects because it claims it is infallible, as Pilate rejected Christ because he called Himself the Truth. Look for the Church which amid the confusion of conflicting opinions, its members love as they love Christ, and respect its voice as the very voice of its Founder, and the suspicion will grow, that if the Church is unpopular with the spirit of the world, then it is unworldly, and if it is unworldly, it is other- worldly. Since it is other-worldly, it is infinitely loved and infinitely hated as was Christ Himself. ... the Catholic Church is the only Church existing today which goes back to the time of Christ. History is so very clear on this point, it iscurious how many miss its obviousness..."

All to Jesus, Through Mary our mother...

superior1: Haa damerry, I will be glad to have the pope's contact o, I frequent Rome and do not mind having a chat at the Vatican one of these days with the pope.

superior1: Which verse of the Bible is this stated?

Maria-Goretti:
the most important issue here is to make sure that at the end you will be among those rewarded......now, whether you like it or not, some things are not meant for human understanding. If you think it is wrong to actually ask the BVM to intercede, then dont do it but dont judge those doing it. You know why? You dont even know if what you beleive in is actually what it is....you are just about the bible....look around you, a lot of things are changing. The same some pastors get revelations from God, that is the same way Mary visited the 3 little kids at Fatima......and that was the birth of the rosary.
Ask yyourself this question...
Do you really think God would have allowed that to happen if he had not already honoured and Chosen the BVM?

Maria-Goretti:
the most important issue here is to make sure that at the end you will be among those rewarded......now, whether you like it or not, some things are not meant for human understanding. If you think it is wrong to actually ask the BVM to intercede, then dont do it but dont judge those doing it. You know why? You dont even know if what you beleive in is actually what it is....you are just about the bible....look around you, a lot of things are changing. The same some pastors get revelations from God, that is the same way Mary visited the 3 little kids at Fatima......and that was the birth of the rosary.
Ask yyourself this question...
Do you really think God would have allowed that to happen if he had not already honoured and Chosen the BVM?

superior1: John 7 verses 1-5
7 And after these things Jesus was going about in Galilee. For he did not want to go about in Judea, because the Jews were seeking to kill him. 2 Now the feast of the Jews—the feast of Tabernacles—was near. 3 So his brothers said to him, “Depart from here and go to Judea, so that your disciples also can see your works that you are doing. 4 For no one does anything in secret and yet he himself desires to be publicly recognized.[a] If you are doing these things, reveal yourself to the world!” 5 (For not even his brothers believed in him.)

Mark 3: 31-33
31Then His mother and His brothers arrived, and standing outside they sent word to Him and called Him. 32A crowd was sitting around Him, and they said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are outside looking for You." 33Answering them, He said, "Who are My mother and My brothers?

His brothers did not believe in him and were not part of His followers at that time and hence are not expected to show up at the cruxification.

We know John the baptist was a son of Elizabeth and a second cousin to Jesus, none was started again, so why would you just assumed (even though you are not sure) that they are cousins of Jesus?, none of the 4 Gospel mentioned this theory of yours. They were called his brothers, they were in the company of Jesus mother to seek him

free2ryhme: Show me one scripture in the bible that supports your claims

superior1: Cant find St. Augustine in my bible

Handmaid means servant not spouse

superior1: How did you know this? was it stated in the Bible?

King James 2000 Bible (John 14:13)
And whatsoever you shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. Cant find Mary in the bolded

superior1: None, i just wanted to be sure, i have a friend on this thread who has been playing hide and seek with that question.

Back to the main discussion

2 Timothy 3, 14-16
14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned [them]; 15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The Bible should be the basis of all Christian doctrines and should be a reference point to all issues relating to a Christian life.

If Mary was with a special ministry or if we should use her name in prayers, it would be stated in the Bible. There was no teaching or parable of Christ or the Apostles where Mary (or any other saints) where asked to be used in prayers.

Instead Christ asked us to pray in His name
King James 2000 Bible (John 14:13)
And whatsoever you shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

The word 'whatsoever' leaves no Christian in doubt (Prayers of forgiveness, supplication etc), he said we should ask in His name, unless you believe Jesus doesn't know what He is saying, He never mentioned any other name, not Mary, not Paul, not saints but in the name of Jesus.

Pray only in Jesus Name and nothing more

superior1: Mark 6:3 "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?" And they took offense at Him. 4 And Jesus said to them

Who gave birth to the other brothers of Jesus?



how did you came about that definition of spouse?

A spouse is a partner in a marriage, civil union, domestic partnership or common-law marriage. (source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spouse)

superior1: Thanks damerry for responding to my question however you didn't state where we are asked to pray in or through Mary. The titles advocate, helper etc are not accorded Mary in the Bible. Infact Mary immaculate conception wasn't pronounced until 1834 and Mother of God doctrine was just ratified as recently as 1931.

Hence, we do not have it in the bible where we are asked to pray in and through Mary

superior1: My other question asked earlier

Did Mary actually got married (like you did to your wife,if you did have one) to the Holy Spirit? What of her marriage to Joseph was it without sex? Was Mary married to both Joseph and Holy Spirit?

MEILYN: This is a senseless statement, man made doctrines dats what you guys follow...

superior1: Where in the Bible were we asked to pray in and through Mary?

free2ryhme: Everything you Catholics are saying is irrelevant until one of you can find where in the scriptures that almighty God himself says it is ok to do the things he strictly forbids us to do!!! That is, make, have and bow down to graven images, and worshiping Mary, and keeping the traditions of pagans!!!! Where does he say this in scripture?
If you can't find these things, then that should tell you that something is very wrong with your church doctrine, and is in fact, the doctrine of demons!!

Nomski0: I love your write up. I'm amazed that i actually read every single word.....this just proves those who open threads to ridicule the mother of God have no idea of who they're dealing with.
@OP thanks

Pope Leo I

“His [Christ’s] origin is different, but his [human] nature is the same. Human usage and custom were lacking, but by divine power a Virgin conceived, a Virgin bore, and Virgin she remained” (Sermons 22:2 [A.D. 450]).

Jerome

(In speaking of Mary’s Perpetual Virginity, against a heretic) “Might I not array against you the whole series of ancient writers? Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and many other apostolic and eloquent men”

Assumption

Gregory of Tours

“The course of this life having been completed by blessed Mary, when now she would be called from the world, all the apostles came together from their various regions to her house. And when they had heard that she was about to be taken from the world, they kept watch together with her. And behold, the Lord Jesus came with his angels, and, taking her soul, he gave it over to the angel Michael and withdrew.

At daybreak, however, the apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb, and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; the holy body having been received, he commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise, where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary’s body] rejoices with the Lord’s chosen ones and is in the enjoyment of the good of an eternity that will never end” (Eight Books of Miracles 1:4 [A.D. 584]).

Pseudo-Melito

“If therefore it might come to pass by the power of your grace, it has appeared right to us your servants that, as you, having overcome death, do reign in glory, so you should raise up the body of your Mother and take her with you, rejoicing, into heaven. Then said the Saviour [Jesus]: ‘Be it done according to your will’” (The Passing of the Virgin 16:2–17 [A.D. 300]).

Timothy of Jerusalem

“Therefore the Virgin is immortal to this day, seeing that he who had dwelt in her transported her to the regions of her assumption” (Homily on Simeon and Anna [A.D. 400]).

John the Theologian

“And from that time forth all knew that the spotless and precious body had been transferred to paradise” (ibid.).

Model of purity

Ambrose of Milan

“Mary’s life should be for you a pictorial image of virginity. Her life is like a mirror reflecting the face of chastity and the form of virtue. Therein you may find a model for your own life . . . showing what to improve, what to imitate, what to hold fast to” (The Virgins 2:2:6 [A.D. 377]).

A 3rd Century Prayer

We fly to thy patronage O Holy Mother of God, despise not our prayers in our necessities, but ever deliver us from all dangers, O Glorious and Blessed Virgin. Amen. (AD250)

The Ascension of Isaiah

“[T]he report concerning the child was noised abroad in Bethlehem. Some said, ‘The Virgin Mary has given birth before she was married two months.’ And many said, ‘She has not given birth; the midwife has not gone up to her, and we heard no cries of pain’” (Ascension of Isaiah 11 [A.D. 70]).

The Odes of Solomon

“So the Virgin became a mother with great mercies. And she labored and bore the Son, but without pain, because it did not occur without purpose. And she did not seek a midwife, because he caused her to give life. She bore as a strong man, with will . . . ” (Odes of Solomon 19 [A.D. 80]).

We fly to your patronage O Holy Mother of God, despise not our prayers in our necessities, but ever deliver us from all dangers, O Glorious and Blessed Virgin. Amen (250AD).

Perpetual Virginity

Gregory of Tours

“But Mary, the glorious Mother of Christ, who is believed to be a virgin both before and after she bore him, has, as we said above, been translated into paradise, amid the singing of the angelic choirs, whither the Lord preceded her” (ibid., 1:.

Pope Siricius I

“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (Letter to Bishop Anysius [A.D. 392]).

Augustine

“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).

Cyril of Alexandria

“[T]he Word himself, coming into the Blessed Virgin herself, assumed for himself his own temple from the substance of the Virgin and came forth from her a man in all that could be externally discerned, while interiorly he was true God. Therefore he kept his Mother a virgin even after her childbearing” [A.D. 430]).

Mother of All Christians

Augustine

In spirit she is mother, not of our head, who is our Saviour himself—of whom all, even she herself, are rightly called children of the bridegroom—but plainly she is the mother of us who are his members, because by love she has cooperated so that the faithful, who are the members of that head, might be born in the Church. In body, indeed, she is the Mother of that very head” (Holy Virginity 6:6 [A.D. 401]).

John the Theologian

“[T]he Lord said to his Mother, ‘Let your heart rejoice and be glad, for every favour and every gift has been given to you from my Father in heaven and from me and from the Holy Spirit. Every soul that calls upon your name shall not be ashamed, but shall find mercy and comfort and support and confidence, both in the world that now is and in that which is to come, in the presence of my Father in the heavens’” (The Falling Asleep of Mary [A.D. 400]).

Immaculate Conception

Ambrose of Milan

“Come, then, and search out your sheep, not through your servants or hired men, but do it yourself. Lift me up bodily and in the flesh, which is fallen in Adam. Lift me up not from Sarah but from Mary, a virgin not only undefiled, but a virgin whom grace had made inviolate, free of every stain of sin” (Commentary on Psalm 118:22–30 [A.D. 387]).

Augustine

“Having excepted the holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom, on account of the honour of the Lord, I wish to have absolutely no question when treating of sins—for how do we know what abundance of grace for the total overcoming of sin was conferred upon her, who merited to conceive and bear him in whom there was no sin. (Nature and Grace 36:42 [A.D. 415]).

Ephraim the Syrian

“You alone and your Mother are more beautiful than any others, for there is no blemish in you, nor any stains upon your Mother. Who of my children [says the Father] can compare in beauty to these?” (Nisibene Hymns 27:8 [A.D. 361]).

The labour pains of a woman during childbirth are the result of original sin. (Gen 3:16) The following two quotes are a witness to the fact that Mary, being conceived without original sin, did not suffer these pains.

Mother of God:

In 431 at the Council of Ephesus the church gave Mary the title of “Theotokos” (Mother of God). This title was given to Mary to help the early Christians understand the divinity of Jesus, that He was both God and man. The official declaration was as follows: “If any one does not acknowledge that Emmanuel is in truth God, and that the Holy Virgin is, in consequence, “Theotokos,” for she brought forth after the flesh the Word of God who has become flesh, let him be anathema.”

Queen of Heaven:

The Lord had promised David that a king in his line would rule all the nations and reign forever (2 Sam 7:12-14 & Ps 132:11-13). In the ancient tradition the queen was always the king’s mother and not his wife because of the practice of polygamy (the king having many wives) e.g. Solomon reigns with his mother Bathsheba at his right hand and she intercedes for the people (1 Kings 2:19 & 20).
The queen mother of old, was a foreshadow of the eternal Queen Mother to come. Mary is our Queen Mother and we see an example of her intercession at the wedding feast of Cana. Mary instructs the servants “Do whatever He tells you.” (Jn 2:5) We also find other texts that reveal Mary’s status: The Angel Gabriel approaches Mary with a royal greeting, “Hail Mary” (Lk 1: 28) And in Revelation 12 we see Mary crowned Queen of Heaven.

Mother of the Church:

The early fathers believed that Mary was to be our Mother, given to us by Jesus from the cross (John 19:27). In Revelations 12 we see that Mary “the woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of 12 stars” gave birth to the male child who was to rule the nations, and later, in verse 17, we read that we too are Mary’s offspring: “then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus.” In keeping the commandments of God we become children of God and spiritual children of Mary who is the spouse of the Holy Spirit.

Irenaeus

…[Eve] having become disobedient, was made the cause of death for herself and for the whole human race; so also Mary, betrothed to a man but nevertheless still a virgin, being obedient, was made the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. . . . Thus, the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. What the virgin Eve had bound in unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosed through faith” (Against Heresies 3:22:24 [A.D. 189]).

Tertullian

It was while Eve was still a virgin that the word of the devil crept in to erect an edifice of death. Likewise through a virgin the Word of God was introduced to set up a structure of life. Thus what had been laid waste in ruin by this sex was by the same sex re-established in salvation. Eve had believed the serpent; Mary believed Gabriel. That which the one destroyed by believing, the other, by believing, set straight” (The Flesh of Christ 17:4 [A.D. 210].

Augustine

“Our Lord . . . was not averse to males, for he took the form of a male, nor to females, for of a female he was born. Besides, there is a great mystery here: that just as death comes to us through a woman, life is born to us through a woman; that the devil, defeated, would be tormented by each nature, feminine and masculine, as he had taken delight in the defection of both” (Christian Combat 22:24 [A.D. 396]).