₦airaland Forum

Omexonomy: How proper is it to assume mary is in heaven?

If you may ask of scriptural backup, here's a few.

Specific Old Testament passages On The Assumption of Mary

"Arise, O Lord, into your resting place: you and the ark, which you have sanctified" (Ps. 132 verse 8 );

The Ark of the Covenant, built of incorruptible wood and placed in the Lord's temple, is a type of the most pure body of the Virgin Mary, preserved and exempt from all the corruption of the tomb and raised up to such glory in heaven.

Likewise, Mary is the Spouse of the Canticles "that goes up by the desert, as a pillar of smoke of aromatical spices, of myrrh and frankincense" to be crowned (Song 3:6; cf. also 4:8, 6:9).

These are proposed as depicting that heavenly Queen and heavenly Spouse who has been lifted up to the courts of heaven with the divine Bridegroom.

Specific New Testament passages On The Assumption Of Mary

Mary is that woman clothed with the sun whom John the Apostle contemplated on the Island of Patmos (Rev. 12:1ff)

Similarly, giving special attention to these words of the New Testament:

"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you, blessed are you among women"(Luke 1:28)

in the mystery of the Assumption, is the fulfillment of that most perfect grace granted to the Blessed Virgin and the special blessing that countered the curse of Eve.

On a feast like this, praying the holy rosary in honour of Our Lady's assumption has a greater efficacy.

https://copiosa.org/images/bvm00086.jpg

Oh, that today you would bring to Mary your hearts! and be of good cheer.

Happy Feast day.

SalC: ......Relating John's action to ours as christians, we also have it in two dimensions....

1) We all know God is omnipotent, it is never difficult for him to come to our aid when we are in need, he even know what we want before we say it. Matt 6:8. Yet sometimes when we are in need, we pray and yet "God doesn't answer". And we tend to ask "Does God truly care about us?" Is he really all powerful? Is he really all knowing? Doesn't he want to answer? The questions are endless because we want him to act fast. We expect him to do what we want.

In a situation like this, most times we tend to forget the other side of God.

2) When we look at what has transpired between, Jesus, John and his disciples, we can relate it to what we do or ought to do as Christians.

The scripture said, "there is a time for everything" Ecc 3:1-15

As parents or guardians, we are expected to lay good foundations and teach our children the way they should go. Prov 22:6, but a time will come when we also direct those under us to discover for themselves the truth of life. . Paul use the example of feeding his children with milk of God's word at a tender age, but when they are mature, they no longer need milk but solid food. 1cor3:2

John in this instance has himself told his disciples of the messiah, showed him to them, now it is time for them to personally encounter him and convince themselves because he will soon be leaving them, they needed to be sure of whom to follow even when he is no more.

I would say, they went and got convinced, that was why they came back to inform him when their master John died. John 14:12.

This shows that, we too should not just tell our children about Jesus, we should also encourage them to seek him out and encounter him to be rest assured.

Superb!

Just got to read all contributions, each has it's own beauty and there's this symmetry in all.

#learning something.

SalC: Has our Lady been assumed already?

Cool happy feast of assumption in view

My bad. Happy eve of assumption

SalC: Damerry....

Pardon me, my phone has been down with a flat battery since yesterday. Just charged it dis afternoon,.

Educating discussions So far, thanks to all that shared something, will catch up with you soon, I'm in church @ present.

Happy feast of assumption!

SalC: Now the question is...

1) Can we say John was doubting Jesus being the Messiah?

No, John did not doubt.

2) If yes why?

Not yes.

3) could it be that this passage was about something else and not doubt?

Yes.

John knew very well that Jesus was the messiah and That he (john) was the the last of the prophets.

However, to John and his disciples, Jesus was performing below or not according to the high expectations they all had of this long awaited messiah.

John sent his disciples to ask that question as their motivation had begun to wane, whatever be the answer from Jesus, in as much as Jesus will not deny that he is the messiah, will be a consolation and hope for better days ahead.

For john, that was a consolation as he knew that death was nigh. And he wished that his disciples who had come to him as means to find the end which they are seeking ( Jesus) will by that encounter with Jesus develop faith in Him and be incorporated as Jesus disciples.

4)How can we relate the action of John to our own actions as Christians?

Many a time our expectations of what we want/expect from God seems not coming or below expectations, Just like John, we need consolation to know that God is still with us anyway(a sign of better days to come). And like John disciples, we need a firm stand in God to be still and know that he is
God. Exodus 14:14

Good Morning. Wishing all a fulfilled day.

debbie: To everybody i say good morning,and specially to me sister Salc...thanks for this bible discussion.please i will like us to contribute and also learn too.
Now to the question of John the Baptist being a prophet or not.I think he saw himself to be unworthy to be called a prophet,remember he was acclaimed to be a mouth speaker or rather a fore-runner,who constantly announced the coming of the Messiah.
All his life he grew in the desert and ate what normal humans didnt eat per say.So whenever he entered the city to baptize and preach....the crowd called him a prophet,personally i think he didn't know he was actually prophesying. no human revealed to him all he said and did....yet he knew that the Savior was coming soonest.

Many a times we have gifts in us which we may not know about...but it takes the holy spirit and your ability to hear God to actually 1.Discover 2.Develop .3 Utilize these gifts all to the glory of the Father.
The story of the talents given to those three servants clearly makes us understand that one out of those three refused to understand and discover that he had a treasure in his hands.

I missed this post while i was still typing mine in the morning. You've succinctly said it all in the most articulated manner.

SalC: Yes I also believe John was a prophet who was call even before he was born. The question he answered was not "are you a prophet?" but "are you the prophet?" Showing the pharisees were asking after a particular prophet not just any prophet. John's answer probably stems from two reasons..,

1) He wasn't really unaware of his prophethood but at the same time he knew he wasn't the particular prophet they were asking after. Therefore he was right to answer "NO" to the question "are you the/that prophet?"

As for his prophethood, even his own father was inspired and prophecised it upon his birth when he said in Luke 1:76..."You my child will be called the prophet of the Most High God", ....

This was further affirmed by the belief of the jewish people ..Matt 14:5, and the words of Jesus Christ himself. Matt11:9.

2) A feeling of un-worthiness: John said something, "He is coming after me, and I am not good enough even to untie his sandals" John 1:27.

John did not just feel unworthy to be placed on per with Jesus but even to be considered his messenger--a prophet of God. He preferred only to be seen as "a voice" instead of a prophet.

Something new! Gaining new insights here.

^1500 thanks .

Did i mention that my head is beginning to swell? . Abeg oh.

^ You have said it all

SalC: 1) Is John the baptist a prophet?

Yes, he was a prophet in that like other prophets before him, he.....

1,He condemned the evil practices of his time and preached repentance. Luke 3 : 7-15

2. Kept the people's hopes of the coming of a messiah Luke 3: 15-17. (this is a consolation of better days to come as advocated by the prophets before him.)

John 1: 19-23. Here I will lay emphasis on V21, John was asked is he was Elijah and he said No, he was also asked if he was the prophet and he also said No!

John's consecration as prophet was right from his mother womb, as he was filled with the holy spirit even from his mother womb (Luke 1:15.) unlike other prophets who were called and consecrated by God in their latter lives. As a consequence, his prophetic mission was manifested inately (was inborn).

This can be seen as he came to the desert without being called, probably to seek truths by living a solitary life typical of monks and hermits.

There The word of God came upon him (his mission was activated) and he started preaching.

This (inborn prophetic mission) is what accounts for his oblivion of being a prophet. To make things a little bit pellucid, it can be said that..

he was programmed to be a prophet right from the bliss of his mother's womb. Thus, to John, his prophetic ministry seemed like living a normal life like everyone else.

Matthew 11:9 Tell me, what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes indeed, but you saw much more than a prophet. Here Jesus seem to affirm that John is a prophet and even more.

Through out salvation history, the fall of Adam and the promise of salvation began at a broad base, form age to age events and prophets tapers gradually to the peak which was the birth of Christ.

It's like a pyramid where the fall of Adam and the promise of salvation represents the broad base, the higher the base, the higher the events and prophets of which John the Baptist ranks next to the peak (Jesus)

In John the holy spirit concludes his speaking (of repentance and consolation by the coming of a messiah) through the prophets. In John, the holy spirit also completes his work of making ready a people for Jesus.

just like in Jesus, God spoke at once, all that he had to say.

Thus, it can be said that after Jesus, john ranks next in the order of prophets.

Matt 14:5 Herod wanted to kill him, but he was afraid of the Jewish people because they considered John to be a prophet.

Thats because he did things as a prophet

Comparing his verses, I ask, is/was John the baptist a prophet?

Yes.

if yes, could it be that there is something John the baptist didn't know about himself?

like i earlier said, he did things inately hence he didn't consider his work dat special of being prophetic.

And most importantly, what makes one a prophet, ie what qualifies one as a prophet?

In the bible, we only heard of prophets before the birth of Jesus.
And from the deeds of the prophets, it can be inferred that prophets are

1. consecrated/called by God to condemn wrongs and preach repentance.

And most importantly...

2. They also point to a coming consolation in the person of Jesus.

Thus it's not a misnomer or a common title if someone calls himself a prophet @ this age. This is Because some of them were actually called by God and they also preach repentance and proclaim a coming consolation by the second coming of Jesus.

Let me also add a question here that affects us all...

Is it possible for us to have a spiritual gift we don't know of or understand?

Yes, infact when we manifest those Gifts, we often take them as an occurrence of chance. It takes prayers and close observation to grasp and understand those gifts. Unfortunately, such is most hardly to come by in this secular age of ours.


*I stand to be corrected.*

Macelliot: When and how will confusion end in Christianity?

Dats by the way.

This is where the main target is! I just felt that, rather for me to keep on arguing with my fellow Christians and cause dis-unity among ourselves, I got to use that opportunity to fight the heresies of the Muslims, Pagans, Atheists, and Satanists e.t.c....
I wish all the Christian could be one in unity and love.... But Let thy Will of the LORD GOD be done.

Thats good. Anyway it's good that while we play offensive we should also keep an eye on our defence.

All is Well!

3 thousand thanks. Bro

SalC: Am thinking, ...should I post all the questions now or take them one after the other?

Your suggestions please

I suggest you post it one by one so dat we take them step by step and grab the gist instead of posting all where contributors pick questions they like and ignore the rest.

My opinion tho.

SalC: Alright we have something to talk about.... And that is ....

The life and ministry of Saint John the Baptist

I did have a brief discussion with some people I incidentally or coincidentally met about the great biblical figure, though brief but quite interesting.

In my subsequent posts, I will put up some questions and bible references to kick start this discussion

NB I am not going to write thesis on his life and ministry but salient questions for discussion.

At the end, what did we learn from his life, ministry and death in connection with Jesus Christ...

It's hightime i got fully active on this thread, hopefully this discussion will set me off on the right foot. *following*

SalC: @damerry congratulations so far, things can only get better not the other way round. The Lord is your muscle

Ami, Ami. Ami ohh

Two thousand thanks

Macelliot: How sure are You?
On that day, many will say, "Lord, in your name we do this, in your name will do that," but I(Jesus) will say to them, "get away, I don't know you."
Shallom!

That maxim stood alone (explained nothing) when it first appeared, judging by it's wide held infamous meaning i concluded that it has no place in Christianity.

Well, the meaning you brought up Der makes sense! but for practical purpose, dat maxim ain't just sound judging by the uncharitable meaning it's original proponents attached to it.

Bro macelliot, If i may ask, why have you stopped catholic evangelism? I remember you once created a thread about Mary

www.nairaland.com/1555871/bitter-truth-blessed-virgin-mary

since then you hardly join the fight against heresy, are you discouraged? It seems you're gradually becoming an apostate. Please can you set the record straight on the latest turn of things.

+ hope you have forgiven me for being rude on your thread sometime ago

^ Clueless. Smh

ProphetUdeme: no i never said so. Just that the honour to mary is getting excessively superflous in the sight of a Jealous God

De Maria numquam satis

It means..

"Of Mary there is never enough" we have not yet praised, exalted, honoured, loved and serve Mary as we ought. She deserves still more praise, still more respect, still more love and still more service

Minding the fact that Mary is not an end herself but a special means to an end (Jesus) where do these 'excessive honour' end? Does it end in Mary? No!, it ends in Jesus!

in a nutshell

The More we over honour/excessively honour Mary the more we honour/excessively honour Jesus Christ because we honour Mary only that we may the more perfectly honour Jesus since we go to her as the way by which we are to find the end we are seeking, which is Jesus.

ProphetUdeme: thats God the Son and god the mother abi? Mary doesnt knw any of u and on the judgement day she will stand as a witness against u

I dare you to Back these baseless rants with scriptures, stop spewing your opinion .

Macelliot: I won't pray the Rosary because you told me to do so, but I will pray it when I feel it's right to do so.....

8-) You owe me no apologies, even God gives man freewill to act.

Devotion to Mary or Non-devotion to Mary, Trinity or Non-trinity, only LORD GOD knows......

Thats an agnostic mentality if you ask me. You must be either dogmatic or inclined to the plane of vacilations.

The sight of GOD is trillion times brighter than the Sun and the sight of the Sun is billion times brighter than that of Man.

i concur. 8-)

The End will justify the Means

That maxim ain't for the Christian faith. Learn more about it.

Macelliot: Will you Shut up Please!

Yes bro.

with regard to the rules of engagement and the spirit of catholic brotherhood i shut my lips.

Please pray the rosary for us all that Our separated brethern may not see devotion to Mary as harming Christian unity but uniting it.

Ciao

Macelliot: What a big Shame!!
I weep for you all my brothers!
Hatred and envyness in the heart of Men....
I feel sorry and disheartened when I see my Christian brothers attacking themselves all is the name of ................ (fill in d gap.)
Especially you @damerry!!
How do you love God when you hates and envy your neighbour?
A household that fight against itself shall not stand, for when there is likeness, there is willingness and kindness to make a sacrifice.
May God forgive us all.
I REST MY CASE..........

Brother macelliot, are you still embittered? I thought you have long forgiven me for my hardlines on your thread sometime ago . Even though you were at fault for posting falsehoods please forgive my polemic attitudes and take me as your brother. Jesus and Mary loves you. So do i

Ubenedictus: it has been officially confirmed, boy-girl damerry has a big bacca.

the way you link these things is quite amusing.

Congrats!

Thanks

Formerly operated with the moniker udeme4Christ, but later opted in for prophetudeme after he realised that he has no Christ- likeness in him. That was a candid introspection if you ask me.

The moniker prophetudeme is currently on 'test-drive', when he does not succeed with that moniker he may probably learn to be humble and create this moniker UdemeDhumbled shikenan!

It's two against one! No mercy?

By the time we are done with that

flibertigibbet charlatan 'prophet'

he will learn to be humble like

those before him.

striktlymi: #Damerry kindly escort your friend out and do whatever you guys love to do outside.

Done .

You need to see the injuries i inflicted on him out there , jeez.. Even police dare not interrogate him, they think he has ebola.

ProphetUdeme: why did he and his crews bash in into our pentecostal threads... Reveiw urself and ur colleagues

why are you fond of displacing aggressions? Is it because of my comment on this thread..

(www.nairaland.com/1851322/awake-watch-tower-books-jehovah#25374416)

if it really made you butthurt please live with it. Hypocrite!

ProphetUdeme: is mary also included in the trinity?

She's only included in your own perception of the trinity.

Why bless her name..

Luke1:48
For he has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant; For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed

She is dead long ago and her bones awaiting rapture

Tell that to the marines and get outta my comfort zone you flibbertigibbet.

Hypocrisy!

prophetudeme, (who even made him a prophet?) You stand out among top-notch heretics casting aspersions on the mother church infallible position with regard to the use of images, and the JW'S whom you're now crucifying spew the same judgement as you do.

Now lets get things in perspective, Page 155 of the popular Jw book titled "What Does The Bible Really Teach" advocates the destruction of images, infact, to make things pellucid, an image of the blessed virgin Mary with a woman venerating it was affixed to drive the message home.

https://d.gr-assets.com/books/1334141749l/2387150.jpg

There are several other beliefs contained in that book that is the same with what you not only believe but you also take delight in using them against the teachings of the holy catholic church

Now you show up to call these beliefs satanic and their adherents satanists

Go check yourself hypocrite, you ain't any different. You're also a 'source of Satan' -(to use your own words). Smh

bluerange: Congratulations! i know how happy you are as l did experienced it when l got admitted. What the Lord has given you, no man can take away.

Amen! . A thousand thanks SISTER.

FrancisTony: http://myschool.com.ng/futminna/news/29737/futminna-releases-post-utme-results-2014-2015.html

Thanks.

As William shakespere declared in "As You Like it", i also here say to you

"let my fair eyes and gentle wishes go with you to your encounter"

Wishing you all of God, Mary and the whole company of saints and blessed spirits in heaven

Goodluck.

FrancisTony: Congratz, Damerry.

Thanks brother.

I can't wait to write on 16th.

The Lord is your strength.

First and foremost, The holy rosary is the weapon, be fervent in praying it both before and after your exam.

Also

Be sure of invoking saint Joseph of cupertino (patron saint of test takers) from today till your exam is over. The first prayer is for preparations, the second prayer should be said when you're on the Hot seat

acatholiclife..in/2006/09/prayer-to-st-joseph-of-cupertino-for.html

I think people really got low mark in that Futminna p.utme considering the score I am seeing on Myschool.com and their thread on Nairaland.

Bro na by Grace oh. It's a computer based exam with 30 minutes for 40 questions. The time is more of 20 minutes but they say it's actually 30 minutes. Maybe time flies when someone is on a hot seat, anyway with that allocated time some mistakes are bound to happen

Please can you provide the link to dat futminna forum on myschool.com? Thanks.