₦airaland Forum

GozieEmma: I just want to say a big thank you to all those who have been propagating the true teachings of the Catholic faith which are both taken from the sacred scriptures (the Bible) and sacred tradition of the Jewish people of old. I want you all to know that we do not owe anyone any apology for our beliefs, they are deep rooted in Christ who is the author and finisher of our faith.

Lets understand that not all that happened even in the time of Christ are captured in the bible but those that are there are there so that we might believe, the bible says this much. One thing I know for sure is that if the church were to be evil as many of our brothers who have refused to understand has claimed, it would have been history but for over 2000 years it has continued to wax strong. What I know is that the platform on which most of this christian churches are riding on were built by the catholic churches (I do not want to go further on this as we have nothing to prove to anyone). What I do not understand is why & how some people can claim they know the bible more than those who put them together (except anyone wants to claim anything contrary).

Experience has thought me that we need not waste our time with those casting aspersions on us, that would only show reasonable people that we are true. This is part of the cross that the Christ expects us to carry. Lets also not cast aspersions on them but show them the love and way to the faith that has sustained us for more than 2000 years.

For a good part of my higher Institution's education, I attended a pentecostal church in Enugu, however, I knew I had no fulfilment in God until I retraced my step back to my root in the Catholic Church and I say it without any fear of conviction that I would remain in the Church until I die.

I know the church does not in anyway worship nor encourage anyone to worship Idols nor even Mary. But one thing I want to say here is that I would honour the blessed virgin mary until I die, if the Holy Spirit and Christ did that, whom am I not to do same? We do not to stress ourselves explaining to anyone who does not want to learn with the aim of making informed judgement. One thing I sure know is that God knows the end from the beginning. Lets hold our peace everyone and let the Lord continue to show his people the light.

Now man has the right to abrogate to himself the power to judge another, it is the sole right of God except you want to be judged with the standard you used in the case of others. God forbid.

Together lets show love to our haters/enemies as Christ requests of us, that is the ultimate duty we owe them.

God bless you all.

well said bro. God bless you. Our protestant brethren play deaf ears to the essential part of SACRED TRADITIONS.
SACRED TRADITIONS AND SACRED SCRIPTURE make up a single deposit of God's word, in which as in a mirror, the pilgrim church contemplates God, the source of all her riches.
In keeping with the Lord's command, the Gospel was handed on in two ways:

-ORALLY;

"by the apostles who handed on, by the spoken word of their preaching, by the example they gave, by the institutions they established, what they themselves had received- whether from the lips of Christ, from his way of life and his works, or whether they had learned it at the prompting of the Holy Spirit.

IN WRITING;

"By those apostles and other men associated with the apostles who, under the inspiration of the same holy spirit , commited the message of salvation to writings"
protestants of this age are obviously focused on the sacred scriptures and cast aspersions on the sacred traditions. Even when it's quite obvious that the authors of the sacred scriptures practiced these traditions of ours.

A very clear example is saint Luke the evangelist

"According to tradition, St. Luke was the first person to complete three pictures of the holy Mother of God carrying the Child of God in her arms. He showed them to the Holy Virgin for approval, while she was stillalive. She received these holy pictures joyfully and said: 'May the grace of Him to whom I gave birth be within them!' Later, St. Luke made pictures of the Holy Apostles and bestowed upon the Church this pious and holy tradition of venerating the icons of Christ and His Saints."

saint Luke, who was a disciple of Christ did this, when the other disciples of Christ were alive, and he was neither condemned by Mary herself or the other disciples or by saint Paul himself, who are the protestant brethrens of "this age" to cast aspersions?

Well, protestants should cease reading the gospel of saint Luke since he started the tradition of making icons for venerations.

The church in its teaching had made it clear we don't worship Mary or the saints! Why this gratuitous gossip of Mary and saints worship?

Dear catholics, believe in God and be obedient to the church teachings, This mockery and aspersions are the cross we have to bear. God bless us all.

@ Mods, please let this topic make the frontpage.

brainpulse: Am not interested in letting you see the truth because it is obvious from all your comments from the past three days, that you adored and will do anything and everything that will uphold your religious inclination even if not from the WORD of God and are based on man's originated doctrines and lies. Ask the spirit of God, remove religious blindness and go into the presence of the Lord in truth and in Spirit. Leave all this relics and etc it wont guarantee your Holiness and righteousness without which NO ONE shall see the LORD.

Italo asked you a simple question, how is that worship? *Ignorant buddy*

superior1: Keep deceiving yourself

yes o. since Being a catholic portrays one as an extremist and crazy fellow, i accept wholeheartedly, I'm dat crazy fellow and extremist. I'm a fanatic and i dearly wish to live and die as the saints before me (who of course were extremist) , Mother Mary intercede for me. Saint John the beloved pray for me. My guardian angel, be at my side, to light and guard, to rule and guide. Thank you Jesus. my Joy is complete!

superior1: booked

i laugh in parables

superior1: booked

thought as much, i knew you wld luv dis, well u're nt just anticatholic u're....... Well, forget

superior1: Worshippers of dead bones should know God has nothing in common with Lucifer.

Flee Catholism, Flee Paganism

Hahahaha, crestfallen defeated dude. Have you forgotten how i left you speechless on this derogatory thread of yours
www.nairaland.com/1389121/catholism-focus-relics/2
Na here you come for recovery? Mtcheeeew.
@ op. Even if that telescope was made in vatican and called lucifer, bear in mind, Vatican na CITY no be catholic church. *height of ignorance* i wonder why you guys love casting aspersions on catholicism, well, this goes to remind me that the world hates the truth!

Maria-Goretti:
we are doing smae... Mary, in this context takes the place of the Pastor.

nice comeback. That dude is also confused. But as usual, he's not willing to learn.

Finally made the front-page, I also noticed essential modifications, thumbs up mods, you guys have made my day. Thank you Jesus for giving me the grace to be alive and to also tell the world something special about your mother. Thank you mother Mary our mediator, pray for us siners now and at the hour of our death amen. ALL TO JESUS THROUGH MARY OUR MOTHER.
If you missed morning mass, please try and attend evening mass

holypower: Sister Linda Ngaujah said it. Indeed, scripturally, all catholics will go to hell once they are following their way of worship! You are heading to hell if you are worshipping that moulden JESUS and mary!

Thats Linda's opinion and your brainwashed head opinion. Let me ask you a question, why did she (Linda) not talked about praying to saints (as we catholic pray in communion of the saints) why always Mary? All critics are against Mary! Is she the only intercessor in heaven? Did Linda forget to preach against praying to the saints? This little bits of information should not skip her memory if she really went to heaven. Well, here is a testimony, I've benefited alot from Mary's intercession and I'm still benefiting . Haters face your own church and recognise your own flaws. Sister Linda indeed. Smh.

holypower: Sister Linda Ngaujah said it. Indeed, scripturally, all catholics will go to hell once they are following their way of worship! You are heading to hell if you are worshipping that moulden JESUS and mary!

smh. Permit me to call you simplet*n for taking d whole thrash hook line and sinker. Sister Linda indeed which church do u attend? Because according to your sister linda, it's only kumiyi's church that rates 98% on the righteousness scale.

brosss: Thanks for the reminders....... Guess the persecutors are still asleep!

sure! Very soon, they will come swarming like bees. Anyway, may God bless us all.

Maria-Goretti:
Feast of Assumption of Blessed Virgin Mary...

Happy Feast day.....children of Mary....!

Same to you! It's also important that we attend mass today to celebrate this great feast. morning or evening mass, (or both,) ave Maria

superior1: You mean mary went to heaven like Jesus did?

This thread should clear your doubts
www.nairaland.com/1397768/what-assumption

Ave Maria, today being 15th of August 2013 is the solemnity of the assumption of the most blessed virgin Mary. PLEASE IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE ATTEND MASS TODAY. @ op, God bless you.
Protestant views
The Protestant Reformer Heinrich
Bullinger believed in the assumption of Mary. His 1539 polemical treatise against idolatry expressed his belief that Mary's sacrosanctum corpus ("sacrosanct body" had been assumed into heaven by angels:

“Hac causa credimus ut Deiparae
virginis Mariae purissimum thalamum et spiritus sancti templum, hoc est, sacrosanctum corpus ejus deportatum esse ab angelis in coelum. For this reason we believe that the Virgin Mary, Begetter of God, the most pure bed and temple of the Holy Spirit, that is, her most holy body, was carried to heaven by angels.”

But Most modern Protestants neither teach nor believe in the Assumption of Mary, as they see no Biblical basis for it. Although
most churches within Lutheranism do not teach the Assumption of Mary.
Source; http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assumption_of_Mary

NEVER ATTACK A PRIEST EVEN WHEN HE DOES WHAT IS WRONG. but pray to GOD for them, priests are God's special servants who can call him at anytime and he answers to their call, God loves his priest, he loves his constituted authorities and treats them with respect. Remember Aaron and Miriam in the bible, they asked silly questions about why God speaks only to Moses alone, and the criticize Moses for marying a foreign wife, God punished Miriam immediately but spared Aaron because he was a PRIEST, but after Aaron handed over his priesthood, he died immediately, for the mantle of priesthood was not longer on him.
Lesson: God has respect for his constituted authorities and we are also called to obey our constituted authorities. @ op, Don't do so next time, u're in no position to talk speak against a Priest or any prophet of God. Peace

@ op, i see you bro. One word that justifies all aspersions casted on catholicism is IGNORANCE. anti-catholic Christians of this age are Myopic, they can't see beyond their nose, they all have problems with our doctrine because they have accepted face value and gossips about catholicism hook, line and sinker. if they should delve in into research and understand the bedrock upon which catholicism and its doctrines were founded upon, Christianity would be Perfect! For now it's the so-called Christians criticizing Christians. Peace!

@Double27 i love your immaculate conception post up there. May God bless you and all contributors who had dedicated time to teach, and enlighten soulS on our August MOST BLESSED VIRGIN MARY. It is well with all of us in Jesus name. (AMEN * infinity) But our effort is NOT ENOUGH, we should never relent in teaching souls how to love and honor our DEAR MOTHER to whom this August thread is dedicated to.. Ave Maria

superior1: 1 Corinthians 10:14

14 Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry

final word for superior1.. show me a catholic who worships those incorruptible bodies and i will show you an idol worshiper. The crawlings and other gestures in the above images are in line with tradition which was either used to HONOUR or CANONIZE. thats --NOT WORSHIP--. Please learn to accept defeat and stop providing alibis

When the Roman Catholic Church recognized
incorruptibles, a body was not deemed
incorruptible if it had undergone an
embalming process or other means of
preserving the dead, or if it has become stiff,
as do all normal corpses, even when the
best preservation techniques are used
(though some artificially preserved bodies,
such as that of St Margaret of Cortona, were
recognized by as Incorruptibles by mistake
when records of their preservation were
lost.)2 Incorruptible saints are claimed to
remain completely flexible, as if they were
only sleeping. Besides, INCORRUPTIBILITY IS NO LONGER COUNTED AS A MIRACLE IN THE RECOGNITION OF A SAINT (i believe you saw this statement wherever you got this incorruptibility post from, but you however refused to include it in your post because it doesn't tally with what you trying to voice)

superior1: But you didn't know every altar in catholic chapel has a relic until you came across this thread, ok, if you don't want to thank me, ba wahala

Thanks (it's not *every*, refer to my previous post). But it's obvious you created this topic to cause backslides in Faiths of the gullible faithfuls of catholicism, what reaction do u expect from a simpleton who had read your derogatory write up and post? What ecstasy do u derive from doing that? If u're a pastor elsewhere and you desire catholic apostates you're giving yourself a deceit, no hard feelings, we have to do what is right.

superior1: .

sorry if that offends you, just wanted to know your view.

So tell me if you have some relics at home, which of the saints they belong to and what have been your experience using them in your prayers?

When next you are in church, ask the priest to show you the church's relic at the altar

Relics are not meant to be kept at home for selfish interests and desires, they are meant for veneration in churches, chapels and other religious arenas. I look forward to your next anti-catholic topic. I'm done here.

superior1: Now you see?, you should thank me for that free info.
what is anti-catholic in exposing catholic traditions?

That's my post, there's Nothing to thank you for. Exposing catholic traditions is not anti-catholic, but criticizing our traditions calling it paganism, ( your post up there attest to this, if you like, modify it) demonic and not feeding readers of this topic with EVERY BIT OF INFORMATION about what veneration of relics entails makes you anti-catholic, what you obviously did here was to post images that could scare people off their faith, you said our veneration of relics is pagansim and since EVERY CATHOLIC ALTAR HAS A RELIC WHICH ATTEST TO PAGANISM (as you claimed) what becomes of our holy mass? you supported this with citations from the bible that condemn idolatry and paganism, dude always remember this THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST THE CHURCH OF GOD.

syncan, are you still in Love with Jesus Christ? If yes, u're not alone o. I'm also in Love with him.

All i Have i give you, every dream and wish are yours, mother of Christ, Mother of love, Please take them to my Lord

Ave Maria, gracias plenna, dominus tecum, benedictatu. I love you MOTHER MARY.

superior1: @damerry, what do you say about having your remains hanged outside a chapel like you have in the chapel of bones?

Have you a relic, of which saint and what are your experiences with it?

for me, it's Not a big deal. My top priority is to make Heaven, what happens to the Body after death is Meant to be, there is nothing you can do about it. besides, have instincts never taught you dat there are questions you don't just ask? *Leaves thread*

superior1: That isn't my personal opinion but what is obtainable from authoritative catholic sources. It seems you have very little knowledge of the doctrine of your church.

EVERY CATHOLIC ALTAR HAS A RELIC, THAT IS A FACT.

Becoming a Saint is through the finished work of Jesus, it isn't through the Catholic process. I AM A SAINT already.

Your so called brethren have got freedom of expression, so whatever they have to say aren't my headache.

The following statements summarizes the
more detailed treatment found in other
documents such as the Roman Pontifical,
Dedication of a Church and an Altar, and in
the Ceremonial of Bishops. No. 866 of this
latter book indicates the basic norms for
relics. The tradition in the Roman liturgy of
placing relics of martyrs or other saints
beneath the altar should be preserved, if
possible. But the following should be noted:
a. such relics should be of a size sufficient
for them to be recognized as parts of
human bodies; hence excessively small relics
of one or more saints must not be placed
beneath the altar;
b. the greatest care must be taken to
determine whether the relics in question are
authentic; it is better for an altar to be
dedicated without relics than to have relics
of doubtful authenticity placed beneath it;
c. a reliquary must not be placed upon the
altar or set into the table of the altar; it must
be placed beneath the table of the altar, as
the design of the altar permits.”
considering the (b) part of the above statement, an Alter can be dedicated without a Relic, besides most out-stationed catholic church don't have relics on thier altars, i believe i've made crystal clear from my previous posts why we venerate Relics. Peace
*Leaves Thread and Looks forward to superior1 next anti catholic topics*

Why Catholics Venerate Relics Today
There are two main reasons for venerating
relics today:
1. Catholics believe that God shows his
approval of the veneration of relics by
granting healings and other graces. This is
the case with St. Thérèse, where miracles
began happening at her tomb soon after
her death, and have continued wherever her
relics have travelled.
2. Catholics believe that God uses a variety of
physical things to strengthen their spiritual
life. The creation itself helps them know
something of his wisdom and love. The
sacraments use bread, wine, oil, water and
other physical things to give Catholics
spiritual life, provided they receive them in
faith. Relics help Catholics feel close to a holy
person, thus making them more aware that
the saints are their friends, and fostering in
them a desire for holiness.
Pope Benedict XVI: “By inviting us to
venerate the mortal remains of the martyrs
and saints, the Church does not forget that,
in the end, these are indeed just human
bones, but they are bones that belonged to
individuals touched by the transcendent
power of God. The relics of the saints are
traces of that invisible but real presence
which sheds light upon the shadows of the
world and reveals the Kingdom of Heaven in
our midst. They cry out with us and for us
‘Maranatha!’ – ‘Come Lord Jesus!’” (Pope
Benedict XVI, Address to Young People at
Cologne, 2005).
Our Church is a communion of Saints. The veneration of relics was recommended, and taken for granted, by writers like St. Augustine, St. Ambrose, St. Jerome, St. Gregory of Nyssa, St. Chrysostom, St. Gregory Nazianzen, and by all the other great doctors without exception. We believe they are still alive in glory and stand before God as intercessory prayers for us all.

superior1: according to the "Pontificale Romanum" (De Eccles. Consecratione) the relics of two canonized martyrs although the Cong. Sac. Rit. (16 February, 1906) decided that if the relic of only one martyr is placed in it the consecration is valid, to these may be properly added the relics of other saints, especially of those in whose honour the church of the altar is consecrated. These relics must be actual portions of the saints' bodies, not simply of their garments or of other objects which they may have used or touched; the relics must, moreover be authenticated.

Every Catholic Altar has a relic. Meaning there is no Catholic Chapel which do not have tissues from a dead saint in her altar.

please don't post your personal opinions on matters like this, How many catholic chapel have you been to? And how many catholic chapel here in Nigeria did you find a relic? Why did you say EVERY CATHOLIC ALTAR HAS A RELIC? * just remembered what my fellow bretherns said about you *. Bro, increase your own Faith and count your own flaws, dats a sure path to become a Saint.

The Church strived to keep the use of relics in perspective. In his Letter to Riparius, St. Jerome (d. 420) wrote in defense of relics:
*******************************"We do not worship, we do not adore, for fear that we should bow down to the creature rather than to the Creator, but we
venerate the relics of the martyrs in order the better to adore Him whose martyrs they are."******** thanks superior1 your anti catholic topics and posts aimed to ridicule catholicism makes me Delve into more research which strengthens my Faith, Next time, please say everything you know about a topic, don't just pick parts and scare people out of their faith. Peace.

The use of relics has some, although limited,
basis in sacred Scripture. In 2 Kings 2:9-14,
the prophet Elisha picked up the mantle of
Elijah after Elijah had been taken up to
heaven in a whirlwind. With is, Elisha struck
the water of the Jordan, which then parted
so that he could cross. In another passage
(13:20-21), some people hurriedly bury a
dead man in the grave of Elisha, "but when
the man came in contact with the bones of
Elisha, he came back to life and rose to his
feet." In the Acts of the Apostles we read,
"Meanwhile, God worked extraordinary
miracles at the hands of Paul. When
handkerchiefs or cloths which had touched
his skin were applied to the sick, their
diseases were cured and evil spirits
departed from them" (19:11-12). In these
three passages, a reverence was given to
the actual body or clothing of these very
holy people who were indeed God's chosen
instruments—Elijah, Elisha and St. Paul.
Indeed, miracles were connected with these
"relics"—not that some magical power
existed in them, but just as God's work was
done through the lives of these holy men, so
did His work continue after their deaths.
Likewise, just as people were drawn closer
to God through the lives of these holy men,
so did they (even if through their remains)
inspire others to draw closer even after
their deaths. This perspective provides the
Church's understanding of relics.
The veneration of relics of the saints is
found in the early history of the Church. A
letter written by the faithful of the Church in
Smyrna in the year 156 provides an account
of the death of St. Polycarp, their bishop,
who was burned at the stake. The letter
reads, "We took up the bones, which are
more valuable than precious stones and
finer than refined gold, and laid them in a
suitable place, where the Lord will permit us
to gather ourselves together as we are able,
in gladness and joy, and celebrate the
birthday of his martyrdom." Essentially, the
relics—the bones and other remains of St.
Polycarp—were buried and the tomb itself
was the "reliquary." Other accounts attest
that the faithful visited the burial places of
the saints and miracles occurred. Moreover,
at this time we see the development of
"feast days" marking the death of the saint,
the celebration of Mass at the burial place
and a veneration of the remains.
After the legalization of the Church in 312,
the tombs of saints were opened and the
actual relics were venerated by the faithful. A
bone or other bodily part was placed in a
reliquary—a box, locket and later a glass
case—for veneration. This practice especially
grew in the Eastern Church, while the
practice of touching cloth to the remains of
the saint was more common in the west. By
the time of the Merovingian and Carolingian
periods of the Middle Ages, the use of
reliquaries was common throughout the
whole Church.
The Church strived to keep the use of relics
in perspective. In his Letter to Riparius, St.
Jerome (d. 420) wrote in defense of relics:
"We do not worship, we do not adore, for
fear that we should bow down to the
creature rather than to the Creator, but we
venerate the relics of the martyrs in order
the better to adore Him whose martyrs they
are."
Here we need to pause for a moment.
Perhaps in our technological age, the whole
idea of relics may seem strange. Remember,
all of us treasure things that have belonged
to someone we love—a piece of clothing,
another personal item, a lock of hair. Those
"relics" remind us of the love we share with
that person while he was still living and
even after death. Our hearts are torn when
we think about disposing of the very
personal things of a deceased loved one.
Even from an historical sense, at Ford's
Theater Museum for instance, we can see
things that belonged to President Lincoln,
including the blood-stained pillow on which
he died. More importantly, we treasure the
relics of saints, the holy instruments of God.
During the Middle Ages, the "translation of
relics," meaning the removal of relics from
the tombs, their placement in reliquaries
and their dispersal, grew. Sadly, abuses
grew also. With various barbarian invasions,
the conquests of the Crusades, the lack of
means for verifying all relics and less than
reputable individuals who in their greed
preyed on the ignorant and the
superstitious, abuses did occur. Even St.
Augustine (d. 430) denounced impostors
who dressed as monks selling spurious
relics of saints. Pope St. Gregory (d. 604)
forbade the selling of relics and the
disruption of tombs in the catacombs.
Unfortunately, the popes or other religious
authorities were powerless in trying to
control the translation of relics or prevent
forgeries. Eventually, these abuses prompted
the Protestant leaders to attack the idea of
relics totally. Unfortunately, the abuses and
the negative reaction surrounding relics has
led many people to this day to be skeptical
about relics.
In response, the Council of Trent (1563)
defended invoking the prayers of the saints
and venerating their relics and burial places.
"The sacred bodies of the holy martyrs and
of the other saints living with Christ, which
have been living members of Christ and the
temple of the Holy Spirit and which are
destined to be raised and glorified by Him
unto life eternal, should also be venerated by
the faithful. Through them, many benefits
are granted to men by God." Since that time,
the Church has taken stringent measures to
ensure the proper preservation and
veneration of relics. The <Code of Canon
Law> (No. 1190) absolutely forbids the
selling of sacred relics and they cannot be
"validly alienated or perpetually transferred"
without permission of the Holy See.
Moreover, any relic today would have proper
documentation attesting to its authenticity.
The Code also supports the proper place for
relics in our Catholic practice. Canon 1237
states, "The ancient tradition of keeping the
relics of martyrs and other saints under a
fixed altar is to be preserved according to
the norms given in the liturgical books" (a
practice widespread since the fourth
century). Many churches also have relics of
their patron saints which the faithful
venerate upon appropriate occasions. And
yes, reports of the Lord's miracles and
favors continue to be connected with the
intercession of a saint and the veneration of
his relics.
In all, relics remind us of the holiness of a
saint and his cooperation in God's work. At
the same time, relics inspire us to ask for the
prayers of that saint and to beg the grace of
God to live the same kind of faith-filled live.
Fr. Saunders is president of Notre Dame
Institute and pastor of Queen of Apostles
Parish, both in Alexandria.