₦airaland Forum

LoveKing:
it amazes me when people get all technical about tithes e.g joe, wordtalk etc. tithes are very unimportant, meaningless and doesnt change who you are. when it comes to some literal truth, they turn the blind eye and start conjuring meanings to things that doesnt add up. true talk brother.

The funny aspect is that people who dont pay "tithes" i.e Atheist, Muslims and people of other faiths and walks of Life still live fulfilling and comfortable lives.

So, Tithing is only beneficial to the recipient. It neither adds nor remove anything to the quality of anybody's life (Except the beneficiaries). If people that dont pay tithes can still lead a successful and fulfilling lives, what difference does Tithing make then.

It only enriches dubious individuals who takes advantage of faithful and hopeful folks.

@Image123

Dude, are you learning?

@ topic

Dont you find it funny when people say they are "paying their tithes to God"

I wonder what God wants to do with the tithes?  Maybe he needs to buy another Heaven.

Deut 14: 22-29 has the candid and straight-forward description of what God wants people to do with their tithes.  Very simple

IT IS MAN THAT NEEDS "TITHES".

"Dr. Kennedy is to be highly applauded for this honest statement. He places the urgent needs of the family first, not the church. The typical tithe-teacher wrongly equates tithing with first-fruit and teaches that the tithe should go first to the church regardless of other urgent needs the family must meet. Again, he agrees more with me than with the typical tithe-teacher."



The typical tithe-teacher should encourage people to take care of their families and not only the immediate one, the extended one as well. But then again the typical tithe-teacher is either misguided or actually benefits from the payments of tithes.

Emphasis on "Typical".

newmi:
l would for starters, wish to pay my respect to this topic by limiting my first contributions to the concerns of the topic in question because l must confess l have mouth watering attractions to several comments already submitted especially from some familiar quarters.
As much as it would be[b] folly and self deceiption for anyone Christians and Non-Christians[/b] alike to think that such elements as satan, demons, evil spirits, witchcraft etc do not exist because the bible shows us that they do.

Mr Newmi,

Not many "Non-Christians" believe in the Bible, so dont you think it is "Folly" to use that same bible to support your argument?   

This principle that we are talking about is really the main contention here.

Who delibrated on this principle and under whose directives was this Principle established?

Look up principle in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

A principle is a law or rule that has to be, or usually is to be followed, or can be desirably followed, or is an inevitable consequence of something, such as the laws observed in nature or the way that a system is constructed. The principles of such a system are understood by its users as the essential characteristics of the system, or reflecting system's designed purpose, and the effective operation or use of which would be impossible if any one of the principles was to be ignored

A law or a rule.

Who precipitated this Law or Rule?

Why is there no clear directive in the NT to part with 10% as it was clearly directed in Deuteronomy on how to Tithe?  

If it was so important why did'nt Jesus or God not just mention it?

Very simple, but as always Humans must figure a way to complicate simple matters

Pls, this is borderline bigotry.


Tel me, if an individual was born in Saudi arabia and all that he knows is islam due to the involuntary Indoctrination most of us have been subjected to, are you now telling me that person is not "saved"?

Do you only have to be a Christian (followers of Christ) to be "saved"?

What is wrong with this world?  Even the ones that preaches the "Love", "peace" and "Salvation" are indirectly saying "It has to be our way or no other way" and no other way means eternal damnation.

What is the difference between that and the threat of some islamist fundamentalist ideology of "our way or no way".         

Ignore the above,

I have seen your explanation.

Edit: A tenth of what though?

nLMEDIATOR just echoed my thoughts.

What exactly is this principle of tithing or the principle behind tithing.

How should it then be done since it has evidentley changed.

In short, Wordtalk, how should a christian tithe without deviating from the "Principle"?

Thanks.

@ Wordtalk

Thanks for your reply,

I do see that the main contention in your argument is between "Legalism" and "Principle". Whilst I understand to an extent your analogy drawn from the "passover" in reference to adherence in form of principle, I can't help but notice a Flaw.

Pls, who determines the procedures and blueprint of these principle? Is it dependant upon individuality or do we have an elite group that dictate the process of this "Principle"

Pls bear in mind the nature of Tithing as it involves money and it's submission towards those very Elite that may dictate the way in which this principle may be conducted. I am sure you are aware of the"Evil" capabilities Money possesess in the mind of Men. Hence the increased chances of collusion and corruption.

This was why I asked earlier that  what might have changed. Definately not God, or does God change?
He has stated what should be done when "Tithing" and how it shoud be done. What then is behind this change that has to be followed in the manner of Principles and not in the exact nature.

If God stated how something should be done, I feel it is Only God that should state if there is a change in the set of instructions that he set himself. Afterall, the very 10 commandents he gave in the OT has not been euphemized to the nature of Principles?

Anticipating your reply

(Pls forgive me If you might have mentioned anything already in relation to what I asked, I want to to indulge with me freshly if you have the time, Thanks)

nuclearboy:
Why waste time calling YOURSELF?

Log out as Jo and log back in as newmi to spout enhanced stupidity.
Then log out as newwi and log in as mabell to ask one asinine question.
Log out as mabell and return as Akhozem to praise yourself (Joagbaje)
Finally return as Jo to expound on more ignorance

That's what NL knows you for - deceit and shallowness

I searched "Akhozem" and I actually saw things that has balanced my suspicions. I know we have been through this incident on another thread, but I just decided to see what the hype was about.

Dude, am not shocked.(and that has to say alot about it)

Very shameful.

Joagbaje:
^^^

You call that malicious question ? I wasn't joking? As far I'm concerned ,a plane ,chopper etc is just a vehicle . If a man has need of it and has the money, what is anybody headache with it? If private jet is wrong, what of private car?

If you work for the money, then you can buy the moon for all I care. Atleast it is your money.

As for revenues generated from the sweats, "tithes" and offerings of people, that is taking advantage of innocent people's faith and exploiting them. Private jet or private car, Fraud is Fraud.

@ Jo

I will give you the reply I gave in the original thread

dare2think:
Whichever is morally, ethically right.

With consideration of the "Flock" that may be contributing to his welfare. Bearing in mind the welfare of the Pastor's "Sheeps" are also his responsibility, hence the reason he is a pastor in the first place.

An abuse on that role "Pastoring" and responsibility (Congregation) is an hypocrisy.  Failure to address that abuse is also an hypocrisy.


In short, moderation and consideration is key.

Your question was silly. (As for you not Joking, that is the scary part)

Joagbaje:
@wordtalk
You have said more than enough. There is no place where tithing was condemned or nullified . You don't need to respond to malicious questions that dont make sense.  It's waste of time . Some just keep going in circles trying to wear you out or trap you.

2 Timothy 2:23
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

Luke 11:53-54
53 And as he said these things unto them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge him vehemently, and to provoke him to speak of many things: 54 Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him.

@Joagbaje

You my Friend dictate funny characteristics.  You can say the above, yet put out a  silly "malicious" question in another thread.

Talk about double standards. 

Joagbaje:
Question,Which one is it right; for a pastor to drive private car or public bus?

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=727939.msg8860450#msg8860450

@  wordtalk

Pls, am waiting for your reply to my earlier question.

Thanks.

@ Wordtalk


Pls why are we not tithing as God instructed in Deuteronomy 14 vs 22-29?


What has changed?



Thanks.

Pls explain how you give to the gospel?

And what is the gospel we are giving?

Is there any commandment from Jesus to give to the particular that particular Gospel you mentioned?

Thank you.

Joagbaje:
Question,Which one is it right; for a pastor to drive private car or public bus?

Whichever is morally, ethically right.

With consideration of the "Flock" that may be contributing to his welfare. Bearing in mind the welfare of the Pastor's "Sheeps" are also his responsibility, hence the reason he is a pastor in the first place.

An abuse on that role "Pastoring" and responsibility (Congregation) is an hypocrisy. Failure to address that abuse is also an hypocrisy.


In short, moderation and consideration is key.

Joagbaje:
Jesus endorsed tithing ,likewise Paul.Nothing can be clearer than pauls reference here

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

The welfare for ministers in the temple comes from tithings and offerings . Same thing goes for the church.

I wonder when rhetorics became endorsements.

@ Pelezio

The Tithing described in the Old testament (Duet: 14, 22-29) is the "act of obedience" .

Any other form of tithing different from that is an act of Fraud



Or does God change?

njira:
The opportunity to give to God is in itself a gift!! even before going to Heaven the gifts we have abundantly received from God our Father are indescribable!!

Miss,

How does it make sense to give to an entity that already owns all things. I thought all he wanted was your redemption and salvation. He has no need for "Gift", what will he do with it?

Fraudulent folks are the ones who demand "gifts" on his behalf.

Why don't you give those "gifts" to the unprivileged. Am sure they need it more than God.

What do you think?

"Christians admit your mistakes"


Atleast write it correctly.

Joagbaje:
cornelius didnt get saved gradually , he was obviously formerly converted to jewish religion and he learnt the piety from it. but that didnt get him saved . even though he loved God, he had to be born again legally.

The delusion of Over-zealous religiousness is astounding

Mr Joagbaje, how do you know he did not get saved?

Do you seat with God in heaven to know who is saved or who is not saved?

^^^^^^

Sheep??


You are such a nice person.



Sheeps are not that gullible.

omo_to_dun:

Why do you Nigerians have such petty minds? This is God and those He anointed? How do you know that? Were you there? Can't anyone just call himself or herself an anointed of God? What the hell does anointed even mean? The ability to steal and mislead people? You lots have been systematically and methodically brainwashed into surrendering or neglecting your reasoning faculty so that the thought of even questioning any activity in the Church will not cross your mind. No one in Nigeria is anointed of God. Leave God ALONE. I refuse to believe that any "man of God" with a private jet is legit simply because that money could have been better spent helping the less fortunate. Would Jesus have a private jet if he were alive today? Since I was a freaking little boy, my great grand parents always echoed the same bull[i]s[/i]hit, "One day, e go better", "God's time is the best", "God dey", "Let's leave it in the hands of God", "My God that I am serving is a living God", "God will manifest Himself wonderfully and fearfully(this actually creeps me out) in my life." Make una leave God alone. Nigeria will not develop if we think that some thieves are anointed of God and if we think God will help us. He has already given us brains to think with, hands to work with, legs to walk, eyes to see, mouth to talk and eat, and so on. What more do you want? I swear the next time I am talk to a Nigerian and s/he unduly mentions God, I am slapping the poo outta that fool. I am all for praising GOd, yes I am, but when I need to use my head, I'll leave Baba God alone to do more important stuff.

Thank You.                 
If they are "Anointed Men of God" what are we then?  ----anointed children of the devil?  aren't we all supposed to be anointed? 

Mentally lazy people always wanting God to do everything for them.  Did God come down to develop the western world for them?

Don 101:
@ mihis , I am quite surprised u are one of those who see God's work as business. Although some folks make biz out of it but it is an error to think every church u see is a biz venture. Take care d way u comment on d things of God cos u may just be inviting on ursef d wrath of God.

                        ********************** A CONCERNED FRIEND ************************

Swonder:
My people (nairalander's) please why you can’t allow God to judge. Never said what is not, okay.

The above is part of the reason our continent is under-developed.  Under-developed minds can not produce a developed country.
Fear has dominated their minds.  The "wrath of God" always seem to be called when addressing the issue "Men of God".   Men just like you and I.

When was the last time God came down to Judge himself? Why cant we wait for God to Judge Boko- Haram while they blow us to pieces?

Updated my post.

coogar:
except that the burden of proof is on you to prove they are stealing.
innocent until proven guilty not the other way round, amigo.

Lol. proof?

It is evident for all to see. Like I said, if you choose to ignore, Fine.


But dont expect others to keep quiet.


There are so many to choose from. ( Documented Fraudulent Pastors)
I'll give you just one.
http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejournals/article/175076397.html
 

gat to go now dude. next time
Sleep tight.

tunnytox:
Sharp guy  i don't know why many preach this tithe issue as if their life depends on it. Bottomline is your tithe cannot save you and its either you're saved or not, I'm very sure you can't go to hell just for not paying your tithe.

Cest fini, case closed

Actually some peope feel their lives depend on it. After constant bashing by the "Man Of God" on the implications of not paying it they feel there is no hope besides it. (Some even go as far to say that you are robbing God if you dont pay it).

Pls, when did God start depending on our Finances.

Its an individual thing, but it is fraudulent if the message is being manipulated for greed.

@ cooger
Perhaps, you have a crystal ball to know they are not stealing

ogajim:
You can't pay your way into Heaven(at least not the one I know of)

Shalom.

Neither can you pay God for Blessings, (atleast not the God I know of),

xcept ofcourse he(God) is a "Man of God" who thrives on the money to give out blessings.

coogar:
but this money is no longer yours - you have given it out to the one you believe is the most high. . . .you gave it out to help and support the church in a way to enhance the expansion and the development of that church. if that same church now feels the leader of the church deserves a new automobile, a bigger mansion and a fat salary to boot - who are you to complain?

Who am I to complain?

I am an Individual with a voice and one that understands that I have a right to my Opinion

I am one who picks up the bible myself and get my own understand of it's meaning and not someone else's agenda.

I am one that decided to read Deut 14: 22 to 29 myself and understands how God indicated  how tithing should be done, and not listen to a Greedy person feeding on the ignorance of innocent people.

I am an Individual with my own mind. That's who I am.

coogar:
it's not your battle because you don't know for sure the money is mismanaged

What if I notice things are not adding up I.e--- Jets, mansions, luxury cars--- whilst my fellow brethrens are still wallowing in Poverty?

coogar:
it's not your battle because you are not even entitled to a penny out of it.

Really, are you serious. I am not entitled to a penny out of my contributions? who is entitled to it?  I support the growth of the church but not entitled to the benfits procured from my contrbutions. Dude, its my money its my battle, it's my friend's money its my battle, it's my Sibling's money it's my battle.

coogar:
it's not your battle because the scriptures even said thou shall not judge or put a false allegation against a fellow brethren

The same sciptures said to watch out for wolves in sheep clothing. Christ, the one in whom we are to follow his ways never mentioned giving your 10% earnings to anyone. did he?

^^^^^^

I agree with the majority of your reply.

But why is it not my battle to fight?

Indirectly, you are saying look the other way.

Believe me,  that is what fraudulent people thrive on.  I have every right to voice my opinion and you have every right to oppose it.

So, whose battle is it?  God wont come down to right any wrong.  Was it God that halted Hitler himself, or did people fight and defeat him. (Basically, what am saying is that you can't sit down and hope for God to fight your battles without making an effort) . In developed countries, they did things themsleves and brought about their own development, and did not wait for God. That does not say God did not give them the intelligence. (My opinion)