₦airaland Forum

^^^^^^^^

I'll forgive him and run away.

over-rated or not, he is still rated.

^^^^^^

Exactly my point, we are all children of God

So what do you do if you feel your fellow "man" is acting funny? or something does not feel right in someone else's statement?

Keep quiet? Let me give you two scenarios where people kept quiet and paid dearly for it

http://www.channel4.com/news/evangelical-pastor-odulele-sentenced-for-sex-offences

^^^
Some people where aware of his battle with sexuality but kept quiet, he then went on to molest innocent youngsters. (So, pls tell the presiding Judge, "thou shall not judge", or tell the victims families)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

^^^^^^
He convinced his congregation to commit mass suicide, people who knew better "kept quiet".
Someone tried to talk but they shut her down. 100s of people including little children died.

"thou shall not judge" is a tool used by these men to keep people quiet. It is your choice if you choose to do so, but dont expect others to mute their opinions in the face of apparent deception.

frenchman2:
Haven gone through all comments on this topic, i just can't understand why we take pleasure in judging others.

for you christians, remember what the bible says, 'who are you to judge another man's servant.

it's God's duty to judge, not man's.

and also don't forget, what you sow is what you reap. watch the seeds you're sowing.

Don't do to others what you know you wouldn't want others to do to you.

Be warned.

How do you know he is a "man of God"?

Did God tell you?

@ Jesoul

Nice sarcastic tone,( Just imagined it in stewie griffins voice)

Hilarious,

By the way, they better go to the UN and claim the seats from them, since they own the world.

^^^^^^

That is the delusion and hypocrisy going on in the "new age" church you indicated. Just wait, their apologists would come and give us their own views on the "eye of the needle". But am sure if Jesus intended to say something different, he would simply have said it.

His instructions were clear enough, and for clarity he mentioned it twice.

@ Tonye-t

It is understandable to defend people you admire or serves as a source of inspiration to you.

But this criticism did not come out as a result of inactivity on these men's part, either positive or negative.

But sometimes it is honorable to acknowledge the "wrong" or ,"percieved wrong" (if you don't want to judge them),when the ngative aspect is exposed.

Defending them in light of these "percieved wrong" and quoting the bible out of context in support  is dubious. And we all know it.

Joagbaje:
That's the issue anyone could have done "foolish things" like this. But if it's by the spirit there will be a result. In the 90s . Bishop oyedepo sowed a seed into the life of archbipshop idahosa, and archbishop told him to pour the money on the floor and begin to walk on it. As he obeyed by walking on them ,archbushop prophesied "SO SHALL YOU WALK ON MONEY" . Since that time ,his finances went up. He received mind blowing gifts and seeds. I heard someone gave him an oil rig.

So "money cometh "thing may look foolish ,but if Its done by the spirit. There is power in it. If this drama is by the flesh or by the spirit . It's not my place to judge . Can the spirit make people do such? Yes it's the wisdom of God. Foolish in the eye of men. Can men do such in the flesh ? It's possible . It's God who sees our motives.

-Sighs-
Chinese whispers.

Where you present when these events happened?

^^^^^^^^

It is only not right, it makes you look suspectful. You seem to lean alot in men, just because they call themselves "men of God".

Joagbaje:
@all

Calling a christian a millionaire or billionaire in an understatement. A christian own all things. He owns the world. All things belong to christ.

Romans 4:13
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

In christ all things are ours. The choice is ours. If want it, collect, if you don't want ,no problem.

1 Corinthians 3:21
. . . For all things are yours;

You are joking, right?

Why dont you go to saudi arabia and claim your riches since Christians own the world?
Why don't you get a visa and travel to china and claim your riches there since a christian owns all things?
Why dont you go to JOS and claim the world?
Please dont bother to work hard and invest and lets  see how you will "own the world"
Give me a list of Christians that have owned the world, or that still owns the world,
Pls get real.

Do only Christians own all things? Please what has a christian done that people of other faiths have not done?

Try and sit down and "collect it " without working towards it and lets see the outcome. People wonder why Africa is so behind, well, because we wait for God to do everything. Why then did he give us strenght and brains for?

I would go the "mossad" way. Kill the sponsors and finacial backers. I'll inflitrate the organisation with some greedy haramist and go after the heads and officers. I'll make sure the political heads understand that it is a death sentence to support them.

I'll use the military not our weak police force.

If the violence (islamic) spreads to the south,  it is inevitable they would get a response and the massacre might ensue. A separation is really likely except the nbothern leaders get involved as they stand to lose more in the mayhem.

The problem I feel is that when inventualy the separation comes how will it pan out. Is it going to be south vs north? Will the south unite and form a federation? or will there be further dis-integration. Nairaland is a case study of the complex ehnic sentiments that might make a unification of the south impossible. The bigotry is ovewhelming and even within an ethnic group there is a contention of the validity and origin of their ancestors, thereby redering them into factions.

In a situation whereby we have a complex mixture of ethnicity accross the spectrum of the country, the plausibility of one seceeding from the rest can cause a sequence of catastophy in which each ethnic faction will demand autonomy. In that effect, a stateless collection of autonomies might assume position. That was the case before the "white" came and forced a unity on the area. An example would be the fall of the USSR. While this is not necessarily a bad thing, it is neither a template for genuine democracy as after the fall of the USSR a short reign of terror occupied the land.

I understand that the prospect of having a muslim north and christian south and in world where terrorism is the order of the day is really dire, but I feel separation my cause more harm than the threats of islami fundametalist. The likelihood of more fundamentalism to establish itself in an ethnic fight for autonomy is very evident.

Just look at the threads in the tribalism section, the evidence is all there.

Wonder if Jesus would dance on money like that.

Kids dying of hunger around the world, these "men of God" are dancing on money.

Btw God and Satan, who would be proud of that charade?

@ Frosbel

It is unfortunate that you use that distinction? I have always respected you as a crusader for truth (against false prophet). But please do not adapt their ways-the way they use manipulation to support their views.

Was Christianity in the medieval era not a religion of war and forced conversion?

Did the protestant and catholics not butcher themselves? Pls dont let us cherry-pick about the history of religion, chrstianity has had its dark past.

I am not a "man-lover" and morally I dont agree with the behaviour. But who appointed me or you as a moral judge? People who go about doing their own business and adults deciding to be with themselves is their business as they are not harmiing anyone.

Can you indicate in my previous post where I equated race with homosexuality?
If Jesus can protect "prostitute" against prosecution from hypocrites, who are we to prosecute another person based on their sexuality, As christains are you not to follow Jesus' example of unconditional love---That is my standing point.

By the way, what is a "wrong religion"? What yardstick do you use to measure the "right religion".

@ Frosbel

That is an unfair assumption and what that statement portrays is intolerance.  There are peaceful muslims and their are violent christians, and vice versa. I would implore you to look into the content of a person's character rather than insult their religion.

Did Christ insult anybody's religion?  This world has it's share of problems and people find it hard to accept the differences that makes the human race unique. We should learn to love one another regardless of religion, race and sexuality. Is Love not one of the human elements that seem to hold us together.

I feel it is wrong for you to castigate another religion in that manner, and am sure Jesus did not instruct you to do it on his behalf.

Not to forget, there was a time people killed in the name of Christianity. (The Inquisition era). Then it would be safe to assume the religion was not peaceful then.


Just an advice. (Love thy neighbor, not love thy christian neighbor)

Jaidey-one:
^^ it's obvious u don't know the meaning of the word personal.

If u think it's right for you to call someone a thief when you dont have any proof he's stealing then u shouldn't complain if someone else calls u a not-so-smart person.
Oyedepo has sold enough books and cds worldwide to own a private jet. He's eating the fruit of his labour.

Can you give us the figures generated from the sales of his books ?

, before concluding that it's enough to buy a jet.

The "smart" one.




By the way, I did not call anyone a thief, your conscience inclined your assertion.

Jaidey-one:
so many fools on this thread. Y do u all like to criticise these pastors? If u work in a super market and after threating a customer well he decides to give me #100 will u give it to your boss? If i pastor a church and someone comes to my house after services and gives me money as a personal gift will u expect me to pay the money into the church account? These guys are pastors but they have their own private lives. They are entitled to a space on forbes list if they have the money. They are humans like us and they have their own families. Why do u morons expect them to act the same way Jesus christ did? Oyedepo is a writter. He has written many books. I'm sure he has sold over 30million copies of his books world wide. If a copy cost #1000 on the average that's 30billion. You morons should not forget he owns convenant university. It doesn't belong to the church so u can't expect him to make it a charity organisation.

What would Jesus have done with the bolded question?

If people are not to follow Christ's way, why then make money using Christ' name?

By the way, you sound like some of the derogatory remarks you attributed to others.

^^^^^^^^

kill your enemy?

@Joagbaje

Yes, people give them gifts and stuff. There is no crime in that. But don't you think it is ethically and morally right for those ministers to direct those "gifts" to poorer members of the church.

For example; 5 wealthy members decides to buy the Pastor a jet. Why cant the pastor tell the wealthy individuals to give to the needy instead as his own reward as a "messenger of God" is in heaven.

Not only give to the poor member's  in his "church"  but to the poor people in general---that's what I feel Jesus would be proud of. I am aware some Pastor's are doing this, but some pastor's behave as if poor/ impoverished people have finished from the face of the earth.

Which brings us back to the question, who is responsible for taking care of people who are inadequate materially and spiritually?  If you claim to be a man of God then you should be responsible to provide God's children MATERIALLY AND SPIRITUALLY, if you have the capacity. Not only to a chosen few.

Living luxuriously while other creations of God suffers means your are not a "Man of God" as you claim---you are just an opportunist.

Funny what mass communication can do. The world is getting smarter and more inter-connected (thanks to globalisation).

The security needs to approach this situation the "Mossad" way. Forget about the little terrorist. Go after the backers and sponsors. Kill everyone of them.

Let them know backing a terrorist organisation is a death sentence. It's Nigeria, you can find atleast one greedy boko-haramist that love life. give him a couple of millions and fly him out. Let him snitch of the "Oga's"

Let us atleast use corruption to our advantage.

fahdy2k:
So if Christianity is all about i am richer than you, i have the best cars etc. that means we as Christians are so wrecthed and should be pitied. Think about it, there are alot out there that never believe in God and are materially rich.

Thank you.

bankylan:
This is the era of wealth transfer in God's kingdom, You better sow into the lives of the true men of God and proper, or you condemn them and be cursed for life,

1. If the "unbelievers" that you mentioned can be wealthy without sowing into the "true men of God", why then should a believer sow into their lives?

2. condemn them and be cursed for life?,  who decreed this?

3. how much did the "missionaries" that brought the gospel into our lands spend? Is the word of God not powerful enough to resonate itself that it needs earthly money for assistance?

Lastly, Did God tell you these individuals are his Men? How did you come to the conclusion that they are Men of God?

How many have used that title and we later found out that they are "wife-beaters", "Child-molesters", "Fraudsters" , "mass murderers", "hate-instigators" and so on.

Are we to believe any tom,dick and harry that uses that title?

If they are "men of God", What are we then? Children of the devil?

how does one learn to make "higher judgements" ?

I hope you never fear those mountains in the distance,
Never settle for the path of least resistance
Livin' might mean takin' chances but they're worth takin',
Lovin' might be a mistake but it's worth makin',
Don't let some hell bent heart leave you bitter,
When you come close to sellin' out reconsider,
Give the heavens above more than just a passing glance,
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance.




I HOPE YOU DANCE










[flash=480,390]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV-Z1YwaOiw[/flash]

A good mood "tonye-t" today,--nice.(wonder why you were so angry the last time)---since the atmosphere seems to be IN a forgiving mood, I apologise for my name-calling in our last encounter.

Atleast everyone is chilling. (well, until the next "tithes" topic)

Good to see that everyone has piped down. (hope deepsight comes back tho)

@jesoul

Nice moderating. (by the way, have you seen that movie, shindler's list? still waiting on your verdict).

@ Akan

What is God's work?

And how are these men doing GOd's work?

Just curious.

Akan1,

I agree with your post except for the statement "only God can Judge". 

I am sure you are aware the "pastor odulele case". Apparently some members where aware of his battles with his sexuality, but rather than address the issue let me guess what they might have said---"Only God can Judge".-----then he went on to molest some boys.

If you and I commit  those same crimes, guess what? everyone else would judge, including the court judge that would sentence us.

But when it comes to other humans under the guise of "Mog" ,people would say "only God can Judge".

What are the courts in the Land for?  Did the Tunisians wait for God's judgement  before toppling their corrupt Government?. Or did the Allies in WW2 wait for God before stopping Hitler.

Waiting for God to Judge is part of the reason Africa is behind, we keep waiting for God to do our Battles while we sit back hoping for a miracle.

Nice post though.

Most of these guys have studied Joseph Goebbles' work. The dude most be proud.

Initially I thought this was a comedy sketch, I laughed.
Then I realized it is reality, I laughed even more.

The funny thing is, people kept clapping for him. 

He was holding them in ransom in the name of God, then some silly people would come hear and say "nobody forced them"

A threat can also be used as a force.

newmi:
Of what consequence is if He did or didn't please there better issues to be discussed

better issues like what?

I can see that "REASON" is taking hold in some constructive minds.

@2buff--nice observation

I once witnessed a "Man of God" telling us to give whatever valuables we have on even if we don't have money. I was thinking "what is going on"? people were dropping their wristwatches, shoes, and materail stuffs. It was like magic. There was smooth music playing in the background and a lovely choir mesmerizing the atmosphere.

People kept on dropping stuffs. Then he also used the "aution" method. Started with a significant amounts and worked his way down. Apparently these were "pledges". Am thinking plegdes for what? after collecting tithes and offerings now pledges, wth

The funny part was when he said God told him ten people must pledged £1000, he confidently said "no more than ten", "ushers, make sure no more than ten", I was thinking so what happens to the 11th person? 

I concluded. This is manipulation in the name of God. Someone said on this forum---Same hustle different methods

@NOETIC

The tithing issue is one that requires reason. I am aware some people choose to do it as a personal covenant with God. However, could that be because most had been indoctrinated before they had the ablity to question the doctrine spilled on them by another individual or do they actually, (in their view), reap benefits from doing it. I know family members that have been doing it for years and its like a ritual to them. My problem is where the actual "tithe" go.

Some would say "that is not for you to think, yours is to give cheerfully to God"---But since we are not throwing money up the sky to give to God, this "Tithes" actually go somewhere. I am aware that sme church fundings go towards welfare, but in Nigeria has that welfare become so little that some "mog's" manage to get luxurious items.

I'm pretty sure not everyone is comfortable in these mega-churches, hence why would some of them charter transport to get member's to church. It's really puzzling.