₦airaland Forum

^^^^^

The deal is still on the table but redknapp dey do agidi,

Very funny sister in-law.

Allowing you to sleep on the floor for 2 weeks


Professor of medicine my  a.s.s, does she not know the back pains sleeping on the floor could cause.

Probably one of those egomaniac in-laws.

Dude, there's nothing wrong witrh your wife tho coz I guarantee you, some wives would actually sleep on the bed with the sister and let you sleep alone on the floor.

To each his own.

@ op

not really nice putting her name and email for the world to see.

Defamation of character:

would be nice to hear her side too.

PS, she was very easy to find on facebook.

Representing Blues all day.

By the way, I hope the mata guy can start immediatley because Lampard is really losing form.

Really don think we need the modric guy anymore but his addition would be a plus

My bad, the OP misdirected me.

sorry dude.

Joagbaje:
We should stop all these immature allegations. Does it matter if anybody change ID. what matter is the topic and views of individuals

Lol,

Yes it does matter, if the person changed his/her ID and posed as another person. It is called "Pretence" and only exposes the person's falsehood (very detrimental as this is the religious section). An assumed degree of perfection is always expected in connection to religious parametres.

@wordtalk

Nice to know you are a female. This section suffers from a rarity of females that contributes meaningfully without referring to their Pastors .

Jesoul exceptional though  

debosky:
I agree as well - the import of my comment was that, regardless of how you and I or anyone else feel about a particular 'application', it is perfectly valid for someone to decide in his/her heart that not a single cent will pass through his/her hands without giving a tithe.

Such an individual should be free to do so, without being castigated for his/her action. That person may , not exhibiting the same regularity with other practices, but we are not called to conformity, beyond one Faith, one Father, one Lord and one Baptism.

You my friend have nailed this thread effectively. Nice Posting.

It's only sad that some insidious individuals hare telling people they are "robbing" God if you dont pass over your monetory valuables. They are actually acting as baillifs for God, such is the intensity of some prosperity "teachers".

debosky:
@ Enigma no vex oh, I've been busy entertaining a little girl - full time work.

The answer is very clear - Abram tithed spoils of war, which would comprise of a variety of things and is definitely not limited to money. If Abram's tithe was not restricted to money but was a tithe of 'all' as it were, then clearly the tithing today can be practised using anything that belongs or and so on. can be offered by the tither - be it money, time, food, services

I dont know if you would agree with me but the words that I bolded sounds like charity to me. Charity in the sense where one can give anything to the poor, and needy.

Yet, some "Pastor" said charity is just an extra requirement for the Church.

One more thing, if tithing can be Money, time, food, services and so on, how come most Churches distribute "envelopes" and specifically tell people to hand in their tithes to the "Alter" ? Why could't they just encourage the types of tithes you described and call it exactly that - Tithes-

Just wondering?

(You dont have to answer, since you are not responsible for these churches) ,they are more like rhetorics

@Wordtalk

Nice one. I'm really warming up to you. Even when I dont agree with some of your views, I admire your stand on transparency and Truthfulness. ( Unfortunately, same cannot be said about some individuals)

Much respect.

Joagbaje:
@ wordtalk

I really commend your strong stand on truth.

That's just simple enough. We don't need to go into the nitty gritty of the circumstances by which they gave tithes.  The bible didn't indicate the details . important thing is the fact that tithing  is a spiritual deed in relationship with God.

Wordtalk, as much as I appreciate and accept your view on the Tithing subject, it is statements like the one I highlighted that I find really disturbing.

It is as though the author is insinuating that Non-tithers dont have a relationship with God. It seems to me as a tactic to draw people to pay Tithes.

The only person that knows those who has/have a relationship with him as a "Fact" is God himself.  Tithing or non-tithing.

wordtalk:
Edited for spelling:

@nuclearboy,

Thank you for your comments - much appreciated. However, let me first explain what I meant by this -

- (a) that does not mean that all pastors who teach tithes do so on voluntary basis
- (b) that simply means that, at the very least, there could be a pastor who does so on voluntary basis

Now on to your enquiry -

No. Why? Because I have explained what I meant just above. The 'incontrovertible example' is not even the issue, as I never asserted there were no pastors who ever preached compulsory tithes in Nigeria; rather, I was asking if there were ANY who could not be referenced as doing so on voluntary basis.

Now, just so you know, I am aware of 'incontrovertible examples' (plural) of pastors in Nigeria who insist that tithes are compulsory - that is why I have referenced the survey from the NAE (National Evangelical Association -  https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-739830.0.html#msg8969843  ) on post #22. Further to that, I have an article that references Pastor Enoch A. Adegboye of RCCG as an example of a "compulsory tithe" preacher, and I don't agree with his views - see this:
However, I think why some are concerned about this issue to the point of 'daggers drawn' is because a lot of people (not everyone) have assumed that all pastors who even remotely mention tithes/tithing from within Nigeria must by default be preaching a "mandatory" or "compulsory" tithes. Example to the reference from nlMediator in his argument that - "Not one of them I know or have heard makes any exceptions" (although he explained his context, and I don't want to push it any further).

I don't know all the pastors who preach tithing to their congregations in Nigeria; but let me draw from a few sources even on this forum where a Nigerian pastor stands as an example of voluntary tithes: Pastor Tunde Bakare of LatterRain Assembly -

So, while I have given an example each of Nigerian pastors for compulsory and voluntary tithes, I don't think every pastor who preaches tithes should be tarred with the same brush.

I believe in the veracity of tithing - both from first-hand experiences of real people I know, as well as testimonies of others whom I have not met in person. I was once a vehement anti-tither myself, until I encountered a Spirit-filled and mature believer who turned my world around with just one simple question that left me speechless!

However, what I can say is this: it is not only through tithing that believers can become successful financially and otherwise. My conviction is that tithing is based on two important factors (priesthood and worship), and these two factors stand above every other consideration in a believer's life and ministry. So, if someone is not moved to express their giving this way, there should not be a do-and-die argument to bend such a person to do so. What the anti-tither should not do is join a band-wagon to campaign that every Christian must-needs stop tithing altogether.

Also, do I believe that a Christian who does not tithe is under a curse? No - that is not my theology or hermenuetical principle, as I cannot defend that idea in light of the New Testament. What I have tried to maintain is that the blessings of the Old Testament could apply to the Christian, but the curses under the old covenant do not (see my comment here in post #434) -


I apologise for going beyond the requested 'yes' and 'no'. I just find sometimes that people can build a multi-universe from a simple statement, and that's why I had to explain myself so as not to risk misreadings.

Wordtalk. I am Content with your explanation of the Tithing issue and I understand some of your views. I am impressed as you are one of the few that have given an unbiased viewpoint. I truly commend you. And I respect you for the bolded sentences. You back up your arguments with reason and facts. I applaud you for that, unlike some other folks that feeds us garbage spewed from another person who claims  to be a "Man of God"

Thanks for taking your time to explain, though I still don't see the relevance of Tithing personally, I accept and respect your viewpoint on the issue. People should be free to do what they want to enhance their spirituality, but it still does not remove the fact that some "Men of God" deceives and gain from that freedom or Innocence. Well, no one is perfect but the truth and reality must still be told.

Nice one dude. 

@wordtalk

"Quote
. . . However, the Biblical tithes (Abraham, Jacob and the Levitical system) assume a different character and were connected with priesthood and worship, rather than with political kingship.
Quote
When God instituted the tithes into the Levitical system, it was based on the same principle of priesthood and worship. Even though they were received by the priests, Israel’s tithes were given to God Himself (Num. 18:24, KJV – “the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD“). It was God’s sovereignty that underscored Israel’s worship in the tithes.
Quote
Our giving in worship is quite a different thing from the idea of a tax system or obligation under a custom. The essential principles of worship and priesthood rise above any other consideration for those who walk in faith – and to miss these is to miss everything else.

http://givingtithes.com/abrahams-tithes-arab-tax/"


What exactly are people missing from paying tithes and who judges and decides what they miss?

Does Tithing draw you closer to God and makes you achieve the ultimate goal- Heaven-  ?

Who decides  the relevance of this activity?

Joagbaje:
Ask God  ask him also why do we need water baptism.

You should also ask yourself why God would want 10% not 20 not 30. For thousands of years this has been on . There has never been any place in the bible where God gave contrary instruction against iT. As he did to other things.

Tithes and offering remains As vital part our worship of God.

I should ask God?

I  have asked him, and he directed me to Deut 14 22-29. But alas, it's not practised the way he instructed in most churches. Tithes and offerings is not a vital part of worship to God because he does not need materials things. It is humans who needs these things and manipulate the word of God to get them.

The day God needs Material things then is the day he becomes human to me.  It is people like you and I that needs tithes and material things. So, stop mentioning God and Tithes.  There are people in life that live a happy life without paying tithes,( People you are not holier than, and people that are not holier than you) so what is the point? (If not to serve for some Greedy people's stomach)

No offence, but you are in no position to ask me to ask God anything. Nothing about you portrays the edge or advantage to be in that position.

@Word talk

Please, what exactly is the purpose and significance of Tithing?

Sweetnecta:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You know father whatever his name is was never a muslim, right? Not all egyptians are muslims; coptic people are there.

I am aware but i was referring to the continous bickering about whose God is better than the other.

We cant all agree or worship in the same way.

It's never happened and it will never happen. Respect towards another person's faith goes a long way than fault- finding.

Man, the enemy of Man.



It's really sad.

Not everyone can be Christians, not everyone can be muslims. Faith with force or animousity is self -contradictory.

Can there ever be mutual cohesion?

Joagbaje:
I don't want to win religious poster of the year. A beg . I would love to be a moderator. I promise to bring and enforce order . I will enforce the rules of the forum . I will press for a christian section . Please vote me a moderator and Nairaland will not be a place for agberos.

Haiti. Classic example. (Seun, bear in mind)


By the way,How will you deal with your Critics?

mazaje:
2. Is there any verse in the bible that states the believers will experience lack, injustice, diseases, suffering and poverty?

Not that I know of, but there is a verse in which Jesus (The one whose teachings and morality Christians are meant to adhere to) told a "rich" to sell all that he has and follow him.

One more thing.

The ability to quote from a book does not necesarily equate to the right understanding or knowlegde of that book. A book like the bible in all it's complexities has the tendency to give meaning to anything. All you have to do is remove a verse and quote it out of contexy hence the reason 8 different people can come up with 8 different meanings but I'm sure you are aware of that already.  It's the best tool to use as a source of manipualtion. (sure you are aware of that too)

@ Mazeje

mazaje:
1. Is prosperity wrong according to the Christian doctrine?

Prosperity according to any doctrine should not be wrong if the individual worked and achieved the Gains himself. One of the ethos for prosperity is Hard-work, and if genuine and does not include cheating another soul, prosperity should be encouraged as a deserved result of hard-work and Labour.

With regards to Christianity, I feel the concept of the "prosperity" being dished out to the congregation is misleading. The concept of having to to "Give" in order to "Recieve" just seems like a pyramid scheme to me. The view of "giving" to God so as to "activate" blessings and prosperity "upon" themselves seems farcical as people of other Faiths and of no faiths prospers without giving to any Church. It then discredit the preposterous claim of giving to recieve. The fact that their are people on earth who have not been stepped a foot in a Church or any religious gathering and yet live a fulfilling and prospered life than thos that "Give"only nulls the silly claim. (It seems you are trying to bribe someone to recieve something)

Prosperity is not wrong for anybody, and its definition varies to each individual. However, Monetory prosperity is not limited to Christians alone, let alone Christians that Give. Prosperity is phenomena. And anyone that charges or manipulate people to "pay" for a phenomena is a Fraud becuase he is selling you a posibility and not a guarantee

(Forgive my typos)

Charity is an "extra" requirement, but Tithes and Offering are essential.


To make it simpler.  The Church GIVING is not compulsory but the Church Receiving is Important.


Fraudulent Tactics from Fraudulent individuals.

That Country is in perpetual Darkness because the people that knows the right thing just sticks to manipulation and deceit.

^^^^
Is that the best you can come back with?



-sighs-


"One should not worry when a Child is afraid of the darkness, the real worry is when Men are afriad of Light"

@ Tpia

I get it. Are you refering to my quote and it's relevance to this section?

If yes,  then I think it's my prerogative to post wherever I feel it's adequate to post regarding the issue being discussed.

I feel I have a right to my opinion as you do also. If I feel people are being "deceived" to pay tithes then the Onus is on people who feel otherwise to prove me wrong.

Tithing has been specified and directed in Deut 14: 22- 29. Anything otherwise and not specifically stated in that same book is farcical to me.

However, I feel it is up to each individual to decide whichever suits them. What I am against is that "dubious" Men are using it as a tool to enrich themselves through constant manipulation of that same book. Hence the reason I quoted that statement with regards to deciet.

Thanks.

@tpia

What are you on about?

Azibalua:
Since when did this compare with gods word

What are God's words on the subject matter?

tpia@:
They only pull out "deceive" on certain occasions.

The army of scammers, drug pushers and armed robbers, are they not deceiving people or why do we hear nothing about that.

Pls refer to the Crime section. There are lots of stories regarding the people you mentioned there.

Joagbaje:
^^^
Dont just throw words around. can you prove it scripturally? I'm not against charity. I do charity. And our churches do . But it is not the assignment of the church. The assignment of the church to the world is the preaching of the "Gospel" . Any other thing is extra. You can't demand it of the church or blame the church for it. Churches may do charity, build bus stops and bridges but it's not the assignment christ gave the church.

There is charity in the church though. But the charity work in the church is for the members primarily. Any extra thing churches do in the society should be appreciated and not criticised.

Lol, can I prove what spiritually?

I am not the type to quote a text from a book to justify stupidity.  I wont  quote rubbish to qualify rubbish. 

Your response is full of ambiguities.

"Any other thing is extra", says who?  Jesus?

Is that what Christ said?  "SPREAD THE GOSPEL BUT ANY OTHER THING IS EXTRA"

You can keep deceiving your congregation. The fact that you think Charity is an "Extra" requirement of the the Church only shows the decay Christianity is undergoing.

Charity is Love towards another soul, what could be more important than showing love to a Neighbour? 

Wait let me answer that, buying a Jet to spread the Gospel is more important I guess.

-Shakes Head-

" the church is not a charity organisation"

Something is definitely wrong with the type of Christianity practised in nigeria.

It's really unfortunate.

Charities help the less fortunate and provides adequate support and love to them.

If a church is not required to epitomise those selfless qualities of love then I wonder who is best to provide that support. If secular organisations provides such support, why can't the religion that profess undiluted love?

Hypocrites.

Very shameful.

"Life is the art of being well deceived; and in order that the deception may succeed it must be habitual and uninterrupted"

William Hazlitt

Joagbaje:
It's poverty mentality. Those who worship money find it hard to give.

How disgraceful!!! You pointing out a poverty mentality in reference to giving to an institution in which you might be a beneficiary.

You stand to gain in this argument as part of the system  and you scream "poverty mentality"

What a shame.

Gray Beard:
GBMA! GBAMER ! GBAMEST! ! !

STOOOOOOOPIIIID ATHEISTS WEY DEY HIA LIKE HOMER JUST DEY YARN MUMU YARN.

Any one who knows the human brain alone, and its complexities, even the wonder of sight nd the eye - WILL RECOGNIZE ATHEISM AS THE HEIGHT OF STOOOOOOPIDITY!

Sorry mister,  but I disagree with that statement.  When it come to "stooopidity" I think religious folks should share the crown.

People killing themselves and contributing to the wealth of another man whilst still struggling themselves in the name of Religion is beyond "stooopidity".

Jesus laid so much emphasis on the poor.

The word "poor" was mentioned so many times when he spoke.

He never mentioned the words "Tithes" or "Tithing" in the bible, yet the word existed during those times.



One would have thought he would have mentioned what was relevant to the lives of his Followers. (He did mention what was/is relevant to the lives of his followers, Tithing was not among)