₦airaland Forum

PastorAIO:
Like I said I was feeling irritable. and your responses seemed kinda slow. But I'm better now and with accommodate you at your own pace.

This time you seem to be probing deeper. I would refer you to my comments about Consciousness and how we are certain of it above, but lest you can't make the connection I'll start afresh.

First you need to think a little deeper on what you mean by 'objectively exist' as opposed to 'subjective validation'. Does Consciousness objectively exist? Is it not a wholly subjective experience? Can you see, talk to, or even show your consciousness to people? Would you therefore say that it doesn't exist? Are your claims to be a consciousness (or have a consciousness) therefore backed up by nothing?

If the most fundamental experience of existence is so utterly subjective then how intelligent is it to dismiss the ontological status of anything else on the basis that it is not objective?

First and foremost, Did you get the analogy? Perceiving something directly through the senses does not automatically confer it with objective ontological status. So therefore... whatever means by which you objectively proof God can also be called into question. Whether it's by seeing, talking to, or showing God to people. That is the analogy. So 'God' is NOT comparable to the analogy, BUT the means by which you seek to proof 'Gpd' is analogously comparable to the way you perceive the flying pig.

malvisguy212:
i am expecting you quote there claimed the way the bible did.

PastorAIO:
Aw Gawd!! You've never heard of hallucinations. You've never heard of 3d projections.

If you were to see a green pig flying in the sky right now what would be your first reaction. 'oh, flying pigs exist'?!!! Or, " I must be drunk".?


The point is that Seeing is Not Necessarily Believing.

sweetguy10:
Davien , belief (in a supernatural being) begots prayer . Einstein did not deny the existence of that force .........." everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that some spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe". He agreed that the belief in a supernatural being exists on "a kind of faith" and nailed it by saying that burrowing deep into science will give you that "religious feeling quite different from that of someone more naive ( who is not a experienced , informed,.....)

Note that he only differentiate the beliefs of a naive person from that of a scientist but it all came to that "religious feeling" conclusion that did not deny that existence of that supernatural "force"

Capisce ?

PastorAIO:
What do you 'know' that you don't believe?



Go to your school and demand your school fees back. Where did I talk about negating anything? I'll repeat what I said:


Belief influences perception.

So preconcieved ideas will determine whether you believe what you see or not to be God, or even whether[b] you will see it at all[/b].


If you don't see something that does not mean that that thing doesn't exist. When you people drag conversations down to this abysmal level this is why I don't like to bother with NL anymore.

It is not everything that you perceive that you will register on your conscious brain. This is basic stuff mehn.
(I'm sorry if I'm sounding irritable but I'm not in such an accommodating mood today. I've just responded to one long assed post that was full of rubbish and it took a lot of my time. )

Something can happen right before your eyes and as you are seeing it, you are not registering that you are seeing it. You still believe you're seeing something else. A lot of magic tricks work by manipulating our perceptions like this.

Not perceiving it doesn't mean that it isn't there.

Please if you don't get that then lettest thy servant depart in peace. I'd like a pleasant conversation but I'm not in the mood for giving myself a headache.

all4naija:
Why should I waste my time kneeling down and making noises to something or somebody who is not there? Religious people are pathetic though!

malvisguy212:
yes god could exist. But where are the claimed of this gods/godes? The way the bible teaches about God creative power, only a supreme God could have such.

truthman2012:
The answer is 'no' for any 'god'.

But you can have definite proof of the true God by acting upon His word in faith.

sweetguy10:
A college student wrote Einstein and asked him if he thinks there is a supreme being , after so many letters he was finally moved to reply the girl :


"Scientists believe that every occurrence, including the affairs of human beings, is due to the laws of nature. Therefore a scientist cannot be inclined to believe that the course of events can be influenced by prayer, that is, by a supernaturally manifested wish.

However, we must concede that our actual knowledge of these forces is imperfect, so that in the end the belief in the existence of a final, ultimate spirit rests on a kind of faith. Such belief remains widespread even with the current achievements in science.

But also, everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that some spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe, one that is vastly superior to that of man. In this way the pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort, which is surely quite different from the religiosity of someone more naive.

With cordial greetings,

your A. Einstein"

PastorAIO:
My brother. Belief influences perception.

So preconcieved ideas will determine whether you believe what you see or not to be God, or even whether you will see it at all.

As such can there by definite proof? If you see a flying pig but you think you are hallucinating because you know (believe) there is no such thing as a flying pig then how much more definite will the definite proof be.

If you believe bible to be inerrant first and then you read contradiction in the bible there is plenty of wriggle room to accommodate the contradiction to your beliefs. do you get it?

Pr0ton:
PastorAIO

Taking, from your post, the only next paragraph after "the answer is yes", it doesn't go with the question. Having a 'definite proof' is different from dwelling in delusion. If we are to apply your logic to the op, it would make it appear as "can someone have a weak proof for God and still reject Him"

Hardly, if at all, can you reject God when there's definite proof. It's the lack of defnite proof in the Bible that, in fact, made some people to deconvert from Christianity. Those who believe the Bible is inerrant after having the knowledge of its flaws are deluded, and their delusion doesn't, in reality, make the Bible inerrant.

Bottom line: there isn't definite proof of God, and the belief in an ironic inerrant Bible holds no point to oppose the motion.

PastorAIO:
Come again? I thought the question was:



Where did asking the devil anything come into it?

You asked the question and I answered it. Unless it was a trick question and I missed something.

PastorAIO:
Why don't you ask the devil?

malvisguy212:
first, you should know the definition of faith and know how Christianity teaches it.
I made a coment about faith when I am chatting with pleatton,

"Skepticism is important to the Christian
faith; skepticism causes us to examine
what we believe and search for the
evidence that confirms our beliefs.
Christians Are Called to be Convinced
of What They Believe;
Let each man be fully convinced in his
own mind. ( Romans 14:5)
Christians can be "case makers" precisely
because the Christian faith is an
evidential faith. When we, as Christians,
argue for the truth of the Christian
Worldview, we are not sharing an
opinion. There either is a God, or there is
not. Jesus is that God, or He is not.
Salvation comes through Christ alone (as
Jesus Himself maintained), or it does not.
This is not a matter of opinion, personal
preference or wishful thinking. The
Christian faith is grounded in evidence
that can be assessed and evaluated. The
Christian faith is an evidential faith."

Thank you.

FrancisTony:
No.

Agnostic/Deist. Confused much

PastorAIO:
The answer is yes.

You could as well ask: Can someone have evidence of internal contradictions within the bible and still believe that the bible is inerrant?
We see the answer to that question here all the time. The answer is Yes.

The next question might be: How is that possible?

Well, I think that when something doesn't suit a person's pre-conceived beliefs that person will likely contort everything around it so as to dismiss it because it is the preconceived belief that matters most. There is nothing that cannot be questioned. No Authority. Not even the Authority of the senses. Seeing is not necessarily Believing. Especially when we know that hallucinations can happen and are even common.

Since an Authority is something that is not questioned and any Authority can be questioned, even the authority of the senses, It follows that the op's question is unrealistic. There can be no such thing as 'definitive proof'.

DieeDiee:
Free will is choice. You choose if you want the end result of the condition. So if there was proof of God's existence, you'd still be free to follow, for example, a christian path or not

FrancisTony:
Davien, I love that part you wrote "you were created by your dad and mummy".

You whooped the dude.

malvisguy212:
yes. One can have definitive proof of God and still reject Him, that is exactly the trick satan use on eve, the woman know God is the creator but satan urged rebellion against God. Satan say to her, you will not die but you will be like God, that is exactly how atheists fell. The fell as god.

malvisguy212:
that what freewill is all about. You reject God or you accept Him.

DieeDiee:
That's what free will is for

hilario8898:
Hello davien, first of all I want to say that I appreciate the way you vigorously make a statement in posts concerning God....Yes! Thats true.....I read most of your replies, and this is what I have to say.

What are you scared of? Are you scared of death? We all get to die one day, so what then are you really scared of?

I know you feel that there must be an answer to everything, a proof, evidence, evidence and more evidence.

You try to understand the being of God. Why? I ask you! Why try to understand something that can't be seen or felt....Why?

Oh yes! I know man has evolved to a stage of high and in-depth thinking, and has also undertaken various acts and escapade which seemed impossible like going to the moon.

I know you have alot of questions that need answers, I do too, we all do....but don't forget, man has not yet made man.

The perfect creation of man and the world was done not by man....you know this! You were not created by any being on earth that breaths like you do.

Think! Think! Think! Something within your chest beats, it beats continually....your heart.....your life! Oh yes! You feel you can get a new one through stem cell regeneration #smiles# , an answer to my question yet again. But still scientists haven't yet been able to explain the state of conscience in man. You have one, don't you dav?

My dear brother, we all have troubling questions that sometimes make us doubt the existence of the maker - God. That's Why we are human, But yet, being able to overcome those thoughts in our minds helps to define our sense of being and worth.

You have the choice to do whatever you want to do when you feel like it. That's life!

Do not die before you get answers to your questions. Hell is real my brother, look for people who can answer your questions well and lead you towards the right part, for no man is an island.

We can't know it all....Remain blessed!

benalvino2:
evolution started with bacteria

and crocodiles are said to have lived in the times of the dinosaurs... so when will crocodile evolve to something else?

everything has been stabled so far why? why aren't a bird changing to something else?

why since humans came we haven't had any evolution again?