₦airaland Forum

Physicist Richard Conn Henry explains
why people (such as atheist biologists)
cling to materialism/naturalism despite the fact that it has been completely discredited by modern physics:

“Why do people cling with such ferocity
to belief in a mind-independent reality?
It is surely because if there is no such
reality, then ultimately (as far as we
can know) mind alone exists. And if
mind is not a product of real matter,
but rather is the creator of the illusion
of material reality (which has, in fact,
despite the materialists, been known to
be the case since the discovery of
quantum mechanics in 1925),

then a theistic view of our existence becomes the only rational alternative to solipsism.” (“Solipsism” is defined as “the view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist".)

Naturalism/materialism, simply put, is
critical for maintaining an atheist
worldview. Mind must be the eventual
product of mindless matter for atheism to stand.

An atheist must therefore ignore, remain ignorant of, or rationalize away the insights of modern physics in order to prevent his/her belief system from collapsing.

because materialism/naturalism is the
predominant cultural context within the insular world of atheist biologists (as well as other branches of academia), this is done collectively.

Physicist George Stanciu and
philosopher Robert Augros provide an explanation of why the naturalist/materialist worldview is no longer scientifically or philosophically supportable in their book "The New Story of Science"

“In the New Story of science the whole
universe–including matter, energy,
space, and time–is a one-time event
and had a definite beginning. But
something must have always existed;
for if ever absolutely nothing existed,
then nothing would exist now, since
nothing comes from nothing. The
material universe cannot be the thing
that always existed because matter
had a beginning.

It is 12 to 20 billion years old. This means that whatever has always existed is non-material. The only non-material reality seems to be mind. If mind is what has always existed, then matter must have been brought into existence by a mind that always was. This points to an intelligent, eternal being who created all things. Such a being is what we mean by the term God.”

and Albert Einstein says…
“Everyone who is seriously involved in
the pursuit of science becomes
convinced that a spirit is manifest in
the laws of the Universe–a spirit vastly
superior to that of man, and one in the
face of which we with our modest
powers must feel humble.”

Other Atheist, click the link above

urahara:
With the way u are talking it seems like the thread wont be created any time soon.

Click the link below

https://www.nairaland.com/3174018/what-renowned-physicists-say-gods

If it doesn't work, check my profile page

[quote author=cloudgoddess post=46688196][/quote]Check this link
https://www.nairaland.com/3174018/what-renowned-physicists-say-gods

If the link doesn't work, check my profile page for the topic "what renowned physicists say about God's existence"

I want Atheists to ponder on what this physicists have to say about God's existence. I will also post a report from researchers in the field of Medicine and physcology probing the accounts of patients that have had near death experiences (NDE) i want Atheists to ponder on this issues.


I will start with Physicist George Stanciu and philosopher Robert Augros

wirinet:
You are only clutching straws. You are only attempting to bend an obvious view point to fit into your dogma. For someone to sit on the circle of the circle of the earth looking at people looking like grasshoppers below and the sky looking like tent above can never refer to looking at the earth from space. From space you would not see people below.

Your understanding of the scripture is very very shallow. you are reading the Bible like your conventional textbooks. Well let me tell you something you may not know, the word of God is filled with riddles so it requires understanding for proper interpretation. Why do you think most men of God say we should pray for understanding of the word of God?

To further buttress my point, if you read through the new testaments you will notice that Jesus spoke in parables and most times he had to explain what he meant when his disciples couldn't understand. So bro the word of God is filled with riddles, it's not straight forward like your textbooks.

urahara:
You will tackle me with science....


........... Bring it on chika.

Yes, but i won't post it here. because i want a larger audience. Most of your friends @hardmirror and jonnydon22 are not viewing this current thread. I will create a new thread to post it. I will drop the link here

urahara:
Douay version ko. Muay thai version ni


Chuwg erets was written in the original hebrew manuscripts mind you

Lolz anyway as i have said earlier I'm not here to argue Bible with anybody i don't believe in quoting Bible verses to Atheists. I will tackle you with science. donnffd made me to digress.

wirinet:
It is obvious the writer of this verse is standing on a very high mountain and looking at the surroundings below. If you stand on a high mountain, the ground below would form a perfect circle, the people below would look like grasshoppers and the cloud and sky above would resemble a tent covering everything.

*modified

wirinet:
It is obvious the writer of this verse is standing on a very high mountain and looking at the surroundings below. If you stand on a high mountain, the ground below would form a perfect circle, the people below would look like grasshoppers and the cloud and sky above would resemble a tent covering everything.

Bro, are you a comedian? because i can't see the sense you are trying to make out of that comment above. Look at how you are speaking authoritatively as if you were there with him when he got the inspiration.

do you want to tell me that you don't know what it means to be "above the circle of the earth"? That statement means outside the earth. This was written in ancient times remember and the writer tried his best to put it down in the way he could understand the message. And I think that statement is explanatory enough you can give it to someone else and see how they will Interprete it.

donnffd:
I never said the bible contains no truth, on the contrary, it contains alot of poetry and literature worth noting of...

What i am saying is If the foundation of all religions are based on claims that can be tested and have been and seen to be false, then whats the reason paying attention to it in the first place?

*modified

urahara:
Parallel Verses
New American Standard Bible
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

King James Bible
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Holman Christian Standard Bible
God is enthroned above the circle of the earth; its inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like thin cloth and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

International Standard Version
He's the one who sits above the disk of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He's the one who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in,

NET Bible
He is the one who sits on the earth's horizon; its inhabitants are like grasshoppers before him. He is the one who stretches out the sky like a thin curtain, and spreads it out like a pitched tent.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
God is enthroned above the earth, and those who live on it are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the sky like a canopy and spreads it out like a tent to live in.

King James 2000 Bible
It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are as grasshoppers; that stretches out the heavens as a curtain, and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in:

Buhahahahahaha i laugh. U no get work i swear. Quoting all this long things for what? Na wa for you ooo. Anyway where is the "Douay version" because i can't see it up there.

wirinet:
Sorry, i missed your logical explanation for the (single sex) conception of Jesus, please paste the quote again for me to see.

Witches and wizards are vestiges of primitive societies attempting to make sense of mysteries around them (especially unexpected and unexplainable tragedies). It thrives on Ignorance and fear. Witches and wizards give way, when enlightenment and science comes into a society. Europe and Asia had serious problem of witches and Wizard during the dark days of superstition and religion, but today they have overcome these with science and education and have entered the technological and Information age. At one time it was thought Witches and demons were responsible for Leprosy, mental illness and sudden death. Today medicine has provides the answers to these diseases. Although in a highly illiterate society Nigeria most people still associate these diseases to Witchcraft.

Bro, were you born and raised in
Nigeria? because this your comments
shows a great deal of ignorance on
your part. Or should I say you know
but chose not to believe.
I'm also a science student and I can
clearly differentiate between
superstitions and witchcraft. I can give
several accounts but i see it as a
waste of precious time because you
won't believe it since you have
conditioned your mind not to.

Even scientists are aware of there existence and exploits but are skeptical to accept it because they have no scientific explanation to how they carry out their exploits

.

urahara:
Quit fooling yourself . if the author was trying to imply the world was spherical he would have used the word "kadur" which means sphere rather than chuwg erets which means circle

Bro do you have the Hebrew version of the Bible? because i don't know where you got "chuwg erets" from. you probably consulted Google and why did other Bible versions say "globe"?
And why the insult? Pls don't let us derail this thread by resorting to insults. because you won't like it if i decide to fire back.

urahara:
Guy why naw.

What?
Are you trying to tell me that the Quran has no account of Jesus (isa)?

wirinet:
Nothing in the verse describes the shape of the earth (which is a spheroid). I am certain the writer of this verse see's God as sitting on a throne on a high mountain (like mount Olympus). From that vantage point, the earth below looks like a circle.

That Hebrew word translated to circle can also mean sphere. Other Bible translation says "the globe of the earth (douay version)

wirinet:
Why not dispute the scientific blunders in your Bible instead of asking for any truth from the Bible. If something is naturally and logically impossible, which other understanding can make it reasonable?.

I have tried to explain the conception of Jesus how it can be possible check it out @my reply to donnffd. I guess that is one of the scientific blunders you mean.

Now what can you say about the exploits of witches and wizards? And what about magicians? What scientific explanation can you give because their exploits are naturally and logically impossible.

donnffd:
I never said the bible contains no truth,
on the contrary, it contains alot of
poetry and literature worth noting of...

What i am saying is If the foundation of all religions are based on claims that can be tested and have been and seen to be false, then whats the reason paying attention to it in the first place?

I can't answer for all religions. I can only speak on Christianity. There is a whole lot of reasons to pay attention to it because of the truths in it which you have also acknowledged and it also teaches good morals and there are lots of revelations in it and we believe it was inspired by the almighty God.

Now to the claims you are talking about being false, let me pick that of the conception of Jesus for example. It defiles the biological explanation of conception. And everybody knows it's naturally impossible. But that is with human understanding/reasoning. It's not impossible for God. And I hope you know that the Quran also gave similar account of his conception so will you still say both books were lying despite the fact that they were inspired differently and at different times?

Can you give me any other account from other literature that described the conception of Jesus? The only reason why you will find that hard to believe is if you think there is nothing beyond this material world and that is what science teaches but advances in Physics are beginning to prove otherwise.

Finally let me add, it's just like someone telling you that somebody can disappear through walls won't you take it as a fairy tale and impossible? Even though people do it. And I know you must have heard of it. But doesn't that defile natural laws? You also know of magicians, can you give a scientific explanation to the acts they carry out? I know you will call it illusion, but there are real ones amongst them.

.

frank317:
This is how u guys jump from pillar to post and make nonsense of an argument.

You have always maintained that atheists 'believe' in science despite all forms of corrections. Now he has explained to u why u are getting all wrong that atheists believe in science. You can see from his post that atheists just choose to maintain logic, even if the Bible stories where logical, atheists will accept it.

But what did u do? Instead of responding to his post you pick a whole new line of argument, asking him if everything in the Bible is all wrong. Is that what ur initial statement was all about? Read ur above quoted post, it has nothing with countering his response to you that atheists musnt all be scientists.

Sadly tomorrow u will open another thread calling all atheists scientists. u guys never learn and for that, ten percent of ur income will always be at stake.

Bro next time you want to quote someone make sure you read previous comments before intruding into an ongoing conversation. because i can't find anything sensible in what you just wrote up there, it's completely out of phase with what i and donnffd were discussing.

I have already answered the question you are claiming up there in a previous post so I don't know where your idea of jumping from pillar to post came from. Why quote me when I'm not directly addressing you. The person i posted the answer to understands the point I'm trying to make. You can check out his reply and you will see that you are completely out of phase.

donnffd:
Like i said, Science doesnt make you an atheist, Logical reasoning do

If you know from scientific means the earth is 4.6billion years and the bible says its 6000, you would be logical

If you were told about Noah and the great flood, and you know it cant be possible scientifically, you would be logical

If you were told God made man from dust, and you know about evolution and biology, you would be logical

If you were told that a prophet went to heaven on a flying horse, and you know space is all thats up there, you would be logical

if you were told that a virgin gave birth, and you know that only a sperm can fertilize an egg, you would be logical

if you know that being all merciful and all just is a logical contradiction, you would be logical

So many more...but thats just a tip of the iceberg

OK, i can see most of what you quoted up there are from the Bible with the exception of the flying horse though. so are you saying that the Bible contains no truth at all? because you find somethings that are naturally/logically impossible in it. (when reasoned with human understanding)

but have you also forgotten that this same Bible gave a accurate description of earth in about the year 1473 B.C.E that "God is hanging the earth upon nothing"( job 26:7) the Bible's accurate statement predated Aristotle by over 1100 years yet Aristotle's views continued to be taught for some 2000 years after his death. It was until 1687 C.E that Isaac Newton published his findings.

The Bible also described the shape of the earth long before voyages about 2700 years ago "there is one dwelling above the circle of the earth" (Isaiah 40:22)

What Can you say about all this accounts? Despite all the false things that was being taught about the shape of the earth then, this two men (job and Isaiah) were not influenced. Don't you think it must have been revealed to them by the creator himself?

Guys she is fake. watch her videos very well and you will see the optical illusion she is using. You will notice the variation in her body shape while she is moving/changing position. I have watched some of her videos on instagram and Tumblr. She is fake. i can't believe guys are already falling for this optical trick and seeing her as a goddess. She is fake.

wirinet:
Please give me names and links to scientists who says the deeper you go in science the more less random it becomes.

I am telling you randomness rules the quantum level and even the cosmic level. The distribution of galaxies in the universe is very random.

Oga calm down. I have already said i will post everything here while addressing urahara, donnffd and Co. But it's very likely i open a new thread for it now because I want to confront all of you. I will post the link on this thread.

I have not really been active on NL i recently came across some threads involving Theist vs Atheists arguments and I wish I was part of the discussion while the threads were still active. Now I want to confront you Atheists with a different style not the usual quoting of Bible verses and Quran which doesn't convince you. Mind you I'm not out to totally convince you guys but I will leave you with mind boggling questions that will challenge you to review your stance on God's existence

donnffd:
The idea that we read "theories" and that makes us Atheists is so so wrong

Science doesnt make you an atheist,

But you will agree with me that it influences wannabe Atheists. And at the end of the day during an argument you all resort to scientific theories to back up your claims look at cloudgoddes quoting all what she learnt from biology while attempting to answer a question i posed . It's not common to find Atheists in other field of studies outside science. Most of the Atheists i know are science students.

wirinet:
The bolded statement betrays you ignorance of anything science. The truth is that the deeper you go into science, the more you realize that randomness rules the universe, the perception of order becomes an illusion. On the quantum level randomness rules, and you cannot predict position and mass accurately.

You are wrong bro. Do you think i made that statement myself? That statement was made by those who have really gone deep in scientific research and they came to that conclusion, so are you now calling them ignorant? How deep have you really gone? How many theories have you put forward? You are the one that is ignorant of what those great men have encountered.

donnffd:
Although, siting that physicist who believed in God should be a determinant for all to believe in God is absolutely wrong...

NB: Einstein ddnt believe in a personal God(e.g yahweh, allah e.t.c), he believed in the God of Spinoza, God of order and beauty, the summation of the Physical laws of the universe.

Oga why are you in a hurry? Do you know what I want to post? And who told you that all the physicist i want to quote believe in God? I only want to give you some mind boggling questions that will challenge your thinking faculty and make you revise your stand on the issue of the existence of God. What i want you to know is that the deeper you go in science, the more you will begin to realize that all this things in existence couldn't have occurred randomly, there must be a creative mind behind it.

That is why i just laugh at the so called Atheists here on NL because all you read is theories postulated by some individuals. How deep have you gone in scientific research and practicals?

Those who have gone really deep (those that postulated those theories you thrive on) have come out to say there must be a creative mind behind everything in existence. I'm even thinking of creating another thread for this so that I can fully confront all of you.

[quote author=cloudgoddess post=46636428][/quote]Have you read that book i told you about? It exposed the flaws in Darwin's theory of evolution. Try to read it.

cloudgoddess:
[/quote][quote author=donnffd post=46638306]

[quote author=urahara post=46636924][/quote]@urahara, cloudgoddes, donnffd and Co, I'm currently compiling some ground breaking evidences from modern physics that will shatter your believe system. I will also post some comments from Max Planck, Einstein, Eugene and other renowned physicists.
Afterall, this are some of the guys that are giving you the theories you are thriving upon. Unfortunately cloudgoddes and donnffd are not physics student, I don't know of urahara. So that you can appreciate the terms in the context, although nothing complex no equations or mathematical models just some findings on matter and quantum physics. @jonnydon22 will appreciate better.

.

The level of ignorance of these Atheists on NL still baffles me, and the fact that we are even in Africa Where the practice of witchcraft/sorcery is very common makes it more flabagasting.
I know they don't believe in it even though their exploits are so glaring for all to see. But simply because it has no scientific proof they say it doesn't exist.
I watched a live camera recording mounted in a police car chasing a robber somewhere in the US. after a long Chase, the car of the robber vanished into thing air. the police were shell shocked as they just couldn't figure out what happened and they lost the robber. The video is on YouTube and it has had several million views. so far, nobody as been able to explain the trick he used.

There are many more occurrences like that, that defiles natural laws. That is to show that there is more to this world than you can see. And most of those things can not be scientifically proven.