₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkie:
1. The bulk of what you claim and seem to believe comes not from The Bible but from the many doctrines compiled by the religion of Christianity, a religion whose only connection is. That is what I have been trying to get you to see here. Yes, there was a man called Jesus Christ who happened to be an Israelite(of the Jewish subset), but everything else you claimed in your OP and insist on after that is not biblical but sourced from the various interpretations that belong instead to the religion of Christianity — religious gobbledegook.

It's much clearer now, thanks. I'm curious, what's the extent of the Bible that you consider "biblical"—pure, unadulterated Scripture? Aren't the so-called "religious gobbledegook" (funny choice of words there ) derived from scriptures? In this case, the atonement of sin through the death of Jesus.

2. Yes!

Noted! What does " " mean?

3. The framework of the Christian faith is the same as arguing from a religious standpoint. This is because the doctrines that comprise the religion of Christianity— its over 46000 different denominations/interpretations included— are 99.99999% removed from the actual content of the Bible —Israelite Scripture. Many of the ideas spewed so far by those who argue from within the religion have nothing to do with the original messages intended by the authors of the individual books, let alone the YHWH of Israel or Jesus Christ of Israel, His Son.

Noting the incredibly diverse interpretations and the myriads of denominations is a very good point, Kobo! Thanks for pointing that out. I probably took that for granted because it seems in Nigeria, there's a mainstream Christianity that agrees on some key doctrines, including the one we're exploring in this thread.

I'm curious, though, how did you arrive at the 99.99999% deviation of "religious gobbledegook" from the Bible? I get your point, but that's an extreme exaggeration to the point of being unreasonable.

Lastly, what stance are you arguing from; does it have a name?

Truthseeker10:
Who do you think should determine what Justice is?

Who should?

Truthseeker10:
But don't you think that you are trying to define Justice based on your own viewpoint instead of the viewpoint of the creator? Do you really think that you have the right to determine what Justice is?

Sorry, I’ll be a true Nigerian here and answer your questions with more questions—so pardon me.

Where did justice originate from? Does it have multiple “flavours”? Can we say some flavours are better suited for different situations? What exactly is Divine justice? Do different religions define its specifics differently? Who’s right, who’s wrong—and who gets to decide?

Truthseeker10:
So why did you come up with that analogy as the best thing that he could have done after the disobedience?

Check above. I've updated.

Truthseeker10:
Why should God even punish them at all for disobeying him according to your Analogy above? Could he not forgive them without the drama that you wrote above?

He could, and it'll still make more sense than crucifying Jesus. That's essentially what I'm saying. God can forgive without killing anyone or anything. The timeout I added was so someone won't complain that they got away with disobedience without a deterrent for future offence.

Kobojunkie:
1. But none of what you stated in your OP connects back to what is in fact written in any of the books contained in the compendium called The Bible. And yes, I don't believe the religious delusion that is faith is a prerequisite for understanding, but going around spewing religious rhetoric— gobbledegook— does not equally amount to having understanding of the actual content of the book.

2. Reason can only exist where there is understanding. And the ability to reason is one thing religion, or at least subscribing to religious delusions, gradually deprives one of. If your understanding amounts to the same gobbledegook spewed by the religious(they first need their faith delusion to comprehend what is written in the book), then what makes you think your grasp of reason is different or better then theirs?

I'm not sure you fully understand the angle I'm coming from, so maybe we should take a step back to broaden the context we're speaking from—just to understand each other better.

First off, I'm trying to understand the format of your replies. I'm assuming the numbered comments are meant to address the arrowed points in the quote in a top-to-bottom fashion. Please confirm if that’s the case, because it feels like some of the responses don’t quite align with the corresponding points.

Secondly, just to summarize my OP: I’m essentially expressing my issue with the idea of the necessity of Jesus’ crucifixion to atone for sin. Even though I do so within the framework of the Christian faith, I’m not personally coming from a religious standpoint, but rather assessing the doctrine itself, respectfully—that's what I'm aiming for, at least.

Thankgod89:
Let me share a perspective,not to argue but to offer another lens:

You’re absolutely right in saying that God is the source of justice, love, and mercy. These aren’t qualities He’s subject to; they flow from His very nature. But that’s exactly why they can’t be compromised or played against each other. Love without justice ignores real harm. Justice without love crushes the guilty. The cross is not God at war with Himself—it’s God expressing the full depth of both justice and love, simultaneously.

Your analogy about slaughtering your own child to forgive someone is powerful, but I think it’s missing something key: Jesus wasn’t just an innocent third party. In my belief and according to the scripture (John 1:14 - "And the Word was made flesh",) Jesus is God in the flesh. He wasn’t a victim caught in the middle—He was the one choosing to step in. That changes the entire picture. It’s more like a judge stepping down from the bench to serve the sentence on behalf of the guilty. It’s radical, yes but not senseless. It’s not God needing blood to calm Himself, it’s God absorbing the cost of justice Himself, so that mercy can be real and still be righteous.

You brought up restorative justice, and I love that. That’s actually what the cross is aiming at not just pardon, but transformation. In Christ, sin isn’t just excused, it’s dealt with. Evil is named, exposed, and broken. And we’re invited not just to be forgiven, but to be made new.

As for original sin, that’s a heavy doctrine. But it’s not about God punishing people for something they didn’t do; it’s about acknowledging that we’re born into a broken system. We all experience and contribute to a world shaped by generations of pride, injustice, and pain. The doctrine says, “This is not how things were meant to be.” And the good news is that God doesn’t leave us in it. Through Christ, He offers a new start, a new nature, and a new family.

Finally, your question about the “wages of sin is death” is fair. But it’s not about God punishing every offense with equal fury, it’s about separation from the source of life. Sin, by nature, disconnects us from God. [/b]And death is just the name for that disconnect. But the story doesn’t end there. “[b]The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 6:23).

Cool stuff, especially the last paragraph.

I get that wrongdoing has consequences and often causes harm that demands restitution. But here’s the thing: from the very beginning of the story, the so-called “Original Sin” was disobedience. People ate a fruit they were forbidden to eat. They didn’t kill anyone—not even an animal. They didn’t lie to put anyone in danger. They didn’t commit theft or arson. They literally did not harm a soul in any physical sense. The punishment? Death.

My understanding of what you said is that justice is needed to account for harm done. So, who exactly did they harm? God? Can God be harmed? Themselves? So they needed to be k!lled (spiritually) for harming themselves? That’s justice?

Consider this alternative narrative: God strolls in during the evening and discovers (even though He already knew before He even created them) what the humans have done. He calls them out, does a bit of a shakedown to help them understand the seriousness of disobedience. He gives them a chance to say sorry—they do. Then He says, “You know what? I forgive you, but I’m still going to punish you so the lesson sinks in. You’re grounded for a month. No tending to the garden, no playing with cheetahs and hyenas, no roaming. You’ll stay around the Tree of Life for a month to reflect on what you’ve done.” The humans and their Maker are reconciled. They serve their punishment and learn their lesson.

We don’t kick our toddlers out of the house for breaking a plate. Why should the very Embodiment of Love sever ties with His most precious creations over a first-time offense—when “I forgive you; go and sin no more” could have been sufficient?

Christianity is filled with heavy doctrines. Frankly, some of it feels very convoluted, so much acrobatics to make things comprehensive. I appreciate how Islam doesn't need all that; Original Sin, Crucifixion, etc, as far as justice, mercy and salvation goes.

Kobojunkie:
1. All those are false tales fed to you by your religious overlords. None of that is found anywhere in the book of Israelite Scriptures, which you pretend to quote.

Please enlighten me. Which is this "book of Israelite Scriptures"? I'm not sure I'm familiar with this book, not to mention pretending to quote it. Also, who are these "religious overlords"?

2. Would you rather He, Jesus Christ of Israel, lived forever?

I'd rather he lived a full life and died in peace of old age. I wish he had written a book or a couple of them to pass on his own ideas directly, rather than all the hearsay accounts we have.

3. Nonsense! Easter is a pagan holiday for people to relax, and maybe hang out with friends and family. It has absolutely nothing to do with the person of Jesus Christ of Israel as it has no direct or indirect connection to him except for the ideas fed you by your religious overlords.

I get you, and I actually tend to agree about the origin of Easter. For whatever historical reasons, it has come to have a strong connection with Jesus for the majority of people who celebrate it, and I speak from this context.

MightySparrow:
You once had faith but now an apostate, what really is your point?

Heb.11.3 - Through faith we understand that ..........

You must have faith to understand or any other reasonable thinking is useless here.

I get you, even if I don't agree that faith is a prerequisite for understanding. There are many books and many stories, we have the freedom to disagree with the ideas they present, it's often never enough to quote one book to shut up dissenting views.

If guess it’s easier to use reason to dismantle the flaws in other points of view, but when it comes to our own, faith tends to step in as a shield for the incomprehensible. In fact, through faith, you can believe anything—often at the expense of reason—leaving room for gullibility to take root.

Thankgod89:
The cross isn’t about God’s inability to forgive—it’s about the fullness of His justice and love meeting in one powerful moment. If God simply wiped away humanity’s sin without addressing the real weight of evil, He would be a merciful God, but not a just one. On the other hand, if He chose to prove His justice without showing compassion, He would be just, but not loving. The cross is where both justice and love collide perfectly—where God says, “I love you enough to take the hit Myself.
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I get what you’re trying to say, and I understand that for many people, the cross represents something deeply meaningful, I'm not trying to be offensive, please don't be offended. But honestly, I think it still doesn’t hold up when you zoom out.

So the cross is supposed to be where God's justice and love meet—but why do they even have to be in conflict in the first place? Why would God need to “satisfy” His own justice to Himself? If you wronged me, and instead of forgiving you or talking it through, I slaughtered my own child to make peace with you, I’d be deemed psychotic. But when God does it, it’s somehow considered beautiful? Other religions, e.g Islam, embrace a God who is merciful and just—without contradiction. It makes more sense.

God is the creator of all things—including love, mercy, and justice. These qualities flow from Him. If He needs blood to forgive disobedience, that’s not justice—it’s a choice. And a disturbing one at that. Imagine your child breaks a rule you created (one you knew they’d break), and for justice to be “satisfied,” someone needs to die. But because you love her, you kill yourself instead to appease your own standard of justice. Be honest—doesn’t that sound absurd?

The idea that “sin must be paid for” paints a picture of a God who is bound by a system of rules, rather than One who defines them. Why not choose restorative justice instead of punitive justice? To err is human, to forgive is divine, no?

And what about “the wages of sin is death”? Imagine if every citizen who broke a traffic law was sentenced to death by hanging—right alongside those guilty of r@pe or murd€r. A single, unbending punishment, regardless of the offense. That’s not justice—that’s tyranny.

And let’s not even get started on the idea of original sin—the notion that guilt is inherited, that we are born deserving punishment for something we didn’t do. What kind of justice system is that?

I realize, as with every other comment that questions faith, this thread might rub some people the wrong way. But I remember this being an issue that undermined my faith when I still had it. Do you realize that God can forgive whoever He wants, whenever He wants, without needing to slaughter goats or crucify anyone—and it would be totally fine? He could simply delete the entire record of sins, and no one could say sh!t about it. Like, delete the database and completely format the hard drive—and that move would still be completely valid.

If Stephen could forgive his stoners, God can forgive Satan. And not even the vilest sin—not even Hitler’s genocide—is deserving of eternal suffering. A couple million lifetimes, maybe—one for each soul lost—but an eternity? That’s too extreme for any sin that could possibly be committed.

And don’t even get me started on the idea of a genuinely good person—someone who actually puts in the effort to be decent and live right—burning in hell forever simply for not believing the right story. That will never make sense to me.

All said, I really like Jesus, I think he was a cool fella and I absolutely dig his vibe and it's just sad that he was murdered by the state out of jealousy of a handful of religious leaders. I think the main Easter message is for people to interrogate the influence of authority, particularly religious authority.

I'm not supposed to laugh but this is hilarious AF! In a way it wouldn't be if it were a Pastor or Imam and their congregation. Probably because as a culture we've ascribe a sort of potency to traditional religion that it really doesn't have.

I pray for their well-being and safe return.

Can anyone who understands Chinese confirm the translation? I don't trust this people one bit. The werey said they didn't know it was against the culture in Nigeria, as if it was going to look alright in China or anywhere else.

That said, Nigerians have been able to pass the right message this time. You can't come and gather a whole battalion of olokpa and make a video of gleefully dashing them 5k.

I kinda enjoy the pressure Nigerians can apply as "netizens".

patrikoolar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LU4IK4D62A&t=1272s

Probably all packaging, but I sha like her brand; pretty, down-to-earth, natural, hardworking, odd. Even though that virgin at 41 story dey suspicious but heck! I'm really feeling her vibe.

What's this son-to-son nonsense? It starts with entertaining this rubbish and ends with entrenching the children of the corrupt politicians who have ruined us today, allowing them to start where their parents left off.

EBEk101:
They shouldn't impose it on our Christian brothers, as choosing one language as the official language disregards the existence and significance of other minority ethnic language

Language has nothing to do with religion bro

Na wa o! Which kain title be this thread title sef?

So because person get disability now, na to declare them sub-human and ban them from marriage? Make we no lie—some people own disability na for brain, and sadly, it no dey show for face. If to say e dey visible, we for don dey read headline like: “Man Marries Woman with High-Grade Foolishness”

Abeg, Happy Married Life to the couple jare! Love doesn't cost an arm.

Nothing do you Mr. President. Poco Lee gat nothing on you. Remember to bring the same enthusiasm to bettering the lot of your countrymen. Enjoy the ride.

Last month it was 59 souls lost to a night club fire incident in North Macedonia, many more injured. Night club has claimed hundreds this year alone and we're only in April. Something must kill a man but I'll not be found dead in a club at this my big age.

Imagine being married to this vindictive arse hole... Deliver us from evil, lead us not into temptation kawai Alhaji.

It is better to live in a desert than with a quarrelsome and fretful woman.

safariman:
You are wrong, it was a comination. I guess you forgot to read the history of the D-Day at Normandy when American troops and allies landed in France to liberate Europ. You also forgot Hiroshima and Nakadashi when American launched a nuclear warhead on the Japanese thereby ending WW2

👍🏾👍🏾

Hiroshima and Nagasaki*

The fear of Trump na the beginning of sense. As the guy dey shake table left and right, Europe no go get choice than to find new padi for trade runs. And guess who go enter their eye sharp sharp for this our continent? Na Naija—biggest fish in River Africa.

But make we no go dull ourselves. If we wan collect this blessing well, we gats show say we serious—no be only crude oil waka we sabi. Make we open road for better trade, show say we sabi do clean business and foreign money go dey safe here.

If we package ground well, we go cash out big time. Foreign investors go dey line up like JAMB centre. Opportunity dey knock but we ready to open door?

America na that ajebo pikin wey everybody for compound sabi. Him get bicycle, him get fine leather ball, even toy gun wey dey make sound like film. Because of all these things, na him dey decide who go play and who go siddon look.

Now wahala don start. The boy don turn real terror—any small thing, he go shout. If breeze blow too much, he go vex. If sun shine, he go carry ball go house say the sun too hot. E go reach point wey the other children go tire for this boy wahala.

Before you know am, dem don gather socks, old pant, nylon bags, one small rope—gbam! New ball don set. Dem no send ajebo again. Game on, laughter go full everywhere.

Meanwhile, ajebo go stand one corner, hin leather ball for hand, mouth like who chop bitterleaf, dey look like lost goat, nobody dey beg am again. All the toys for house, but no single person wan play with am again. As he dey watch dem dey enjoy with that their nonsense ball, dey shout “goaaal!”, he go dey wonder say, “no be juju be that?”

Man90:
What if the guy wanted to kill her and she overpowered him and took the knife from him. Considering what's happening in hotels nowadays, you got to guard yourself when visiting someone in a hotel

Yeah, right! That's exactly why she's struggling to reenter the room with him instead of running for her life. Makes perfect sense.

Nonybb:
When I see these kids I just laughed. I wish I was younger again and there would be certain decisions I wouldn't have taken. I was paid 19,500 naira that time when I served in Bauchi state; after my one year service, I saved up to 50k naira cash and went back to the east. From the east, I head to Lagos. That was how life started. My port of call then was at Ago Palace. Sadly, the cousin that I lived with that works in a bank refused to provide me with basic three square meal. The guys literally starve me to death that I had to deep in my pocket to feed my self continuously with the 50k of my life saving. When he was defiant, I left him to the east. Stayed with my mum. In fact, it was even a harder decision because all hell was let loose. She never had patient with me either.
I was back to Lagos after going almost one year; this time around, in my Uncle's house. Another gate of hell was opened. This time, it was my uncle's wife. When I landed in that house, I never wanted to work in her school but she somehow influenced the decision and stopped the stipend my uncle was promising to be paying me till I get a job. This woman made me her b*tch in that school. I wake up by 4:30am, enter the bus and we drove till 6:30am, then the school starts at 7:00am. I will teach from SS 1 to SS 3. The school closes by 5pm, we enter the bus and arrived 8pm in the night, sometimes 9pm. Because I live in a house that look like a security house, this woman gave me a kitchen and an utensils to fed for myself. By that time, I was weak, no food. I will buy bread to eat. Then again I will wake up by 4:30am again. The cycle continues... Until... In fact I can't finish my storyline. Fast forwarded.... I traveled out of NIGERIA after "Nigeria" dealt with me. Today I am married with a kid and wonderful family.

Sir, don’t you think it’s a sign of entitlement to expect your cousin and uncle to feed you when you stayed with them, especially when they were already providing you with accommodation? Even your own mother couldn’t tolerate you, yet you expected extended family members to take full responsibility for you—even paying you an unemployment stipend. Haba nau, fear God.

Now that you're married and building your own family, how comfortable would you be if a nephew or cousin came to rely on the resources you and your family need dearly?

This 4:30 AM to 9:00 PM life you described—I lived it for about a year. It was tough, but I remember feeling grateful that I had something to do and wasn’t idle. Unlike me, you never got to the point where you had to sleep at the office just to avoid the stress of a nightly two-hour commute and save on transport fare, surviving on street food. During that time, I stayed with a family member, and as soon as I had enough money, I moved out—not because they were tired of me. In fact, their kids loved me, and their mother literally begged me to stay. But there’s wisdom in not overstaying your welcome.

Long after I left, I would still shop for groceries and drop them off—not as repayment, but as a token of appreciation for their sacrifice in sharing their home and family with me when I was trying to find my feet.

You're a family man now, so you understand what it takes to open your home to someone else, especially in this crazy world where anything can happen. Nobody owes you or me any help. For those who go out of their way to assist, no matter how little, let’s learn to give credit where it’s due.

Pres. Tinubu has gone back to his balablu mode. Conherence in speech is far from his door.

On kolos!

But what if this is an OF marketing strategy?

Wahala! This wuna bill seems to raise more issues than it addresses. We no master President level finish, wuna want come add Prime Minister join for this unbalanced equation.

Our political parties are ideologically agnostic; campaigns are not issue-based. There's no difference between PDP and APC as far as traditional political left and right are concerned because they're not essentially organized around beliefs apart from their vested interests and e mi lo kan mentality.

How will the Prime Minister emerge? Will he/she be the leader of the majority party in the National Assembly? Imagine Akpabio as Prime Minister or Gandollar LWKMD!

These women slots wuna want create—how dem go take fill am? Will they have constituencies? If yes, will the law force a woman over the constituents? If no, how is it democratic to have a representative in parliament without constituents? Who is she representing? If you say women, are they special citizens to have special gender-based representation?

Have you heard about President Trump’s new move? A 25% tariff on imported cars is shaking up the global auto market, and the ripples are bound to affect us here in Nigeria, especially our beloved tokunbo market.

What’s Happening?
The US government has imposed a 25% tariff on imported cars to protect American manufacturers. This measure is intended to boost domestic production but is already stirring debates worldwide. In Nigeria, where the price of cars has been steadily rising over the past few years due to increasing import restrictions and demand, this could mean even higher costs for both new and used vehicles.

Key Industry Stats:

Germany: Around 38% of US car imports come from Germany, making it a major player.

Japan: Approximately 28% of US car imports are Japanese vehicles.

South Korea: Contributes about 12% to the US car import market.


These figures highlight how interconnected the global auto trade is. A significant tariff on US imports may force these exporting countries to rethink their strategies.

Potential Impacts on Nigeria and Beyond:

Nigeria’s Tokunbo Market: Our used car market, which largely relies on imports from Japan and Europe, could see a sharp rise in prices. Dealers might pass on the extra cost to buyers, making tokunbo cars even more expensive.

Local Production: Could this be a wake-up call for Nigerians to consider locally assembled or even made vehicles? Though our automotive industry is still budding, this might just be the push it needs.

Global Repercussions: In Europe, manufacturers worry about losing access to the US market, and in Asia, particularly in Japan and Korea, similar protective measures might follow. This could eventually escalate into a broader global trade dispute.


World Leaders Weigh In:

"I deeply regret the US decision to impose tariffs on European automotive exports, tariffs are taxes — bad for businesses [and] worse for consumers equally in the US and the European Union."

~ Ursula von der Leyen, European Commission President

“This is a very direct attack. We will defend our workers. We will defend our companies. We will defend our country—and we will defend it together

~ Mark Carney, Canadian Prime Minister

The EU must now give a firm response to the tariffs - it must be clear that we will not back down in the face of the USA

~ Robert Habeck, German Economy Minister

...intense negotiations at the moment with our US counterparts [over] cars and steel and every other type of tariff... We’re not at the moment at a position where we want to do anything to escalate these trade wars.

~ Rachel Reeves, UK Chancellor of the Exchequer

We need to consider what's best for Japan's national interest. We're putting all options on the table in considering the most effective response.

~ Shigeru Ishiba, Japanese Prime Minister

Will Nigerians start turning towards Nigerian-made or locally assembled vehicles?

Could this escalate a global trade war that affects more than just the auto industry?

How do you see the future of our car trade evolving in light of these developments?

BadBradley:
What were they expecting when Mugabe was seizing white lands.

South Africa is the next Zimbabwe in that region.

Nigeria, Tanzania, Uganda, Zimbabwe, the indigenization policy has always failed long-term.

Guys, not to derail the thread, but did anyone watch the Deputy Speaker (Benjamin Kalu)'s convocation lecture? Damn! I'm not easily impressed, but man, was I mind-blown! It was incredible to see a Nigerian politician who is not only articulate but also a natural orator and genuinely brilliant. This guy could give Obama a run for his money. Uncle actually knows his onions. For the first time in my over three decades of existence, I was truly inspired by a speech from a Nigerian politician. Knowing how the parliament is a gathering of agberos, some of whom can barely read what is written down, I was pleasantly surprised to see this man pull ab entire lecture out of his head, comprehensively and eloquently laid out.

Wike is a blabbering monkey next to Benjamin Kalu, so why is Wike's honorary doctorate on fp and not Kalu's speech?

NCC and FCCPC should investigate this and, if confirmed to be true, slap them with the necessary sanctions. You can't be a terrible network and still hold subscribers hostage.

9mobile is going to die a natural death in the next two years, max. How can you be losing customers in tens of thousands and gain only six new subscribers nationwide in a month? Their priority should be finding an operator willing to buy them out, and the sooner they close that deal, the better for everyone.