₦airaland Forum

Is the killing of oneself and others islamic? That explain why some people loathe islam. They cannot come to term with this formula of spreading the faith when the people who they have killed have already died. Could it be that they do it because of the promise of al-janna. It looks like riding on the back of innocenyt people to obtain heaven. If that is the case, how can I then, become a Muslim. My heart is soft to the point I cry sometimes for sinners who have gone astray. I had to intercede in prayers for them that they may know the God that saves man from the burden of sin. What do think about those Christians who died refusing to denounce their the religion?

You sound a bit harsh, cuz of religion? Anyways, you said the word martyr was invented by christians, what do we then call those muslims that bomb theirselves in the middle-east? are they muslims martyrs who die while trying to spread the religion of peace while trying to kill?

Please explain it to me. Don't use deception pls. You can cite examples too.

olabowale:
Dexmond what do you make of Mark 12 Verse 29, stated by Jesus? Is the meaning different that the obvious, making Jesus and listeners as subjects of The One Singular Indivisible Lord God?

In the said verse, Jesus was reminding the israelites that it is one God-Yahweh that they are to serve.

Thanks

what is the islamic word for martyr?

According to the dictionary a martyr is a person who willingly suffers death rather than renounce his or her religion.

According to Islam a martyr is one that dies while fighting in the way of allah (my interpretation-fighting infidels) , while a Christian martyr is one that dies for refusing to renounce his or her religion.


Question: Who is a martyr between  these two groups?

Beware of laziness. It will make you not to verify the scriptures quoted. You can go through all my post and use this site to verify the hadiths.

1. http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/
2. http://www.luvu4luv.com/Hadith_Bukhari.html
3. http://www.searchtruth.com/hadith_books.php
4.http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Hier.asp?Doc=1&n=0

Thank you Abuzola for acknowledging that some verses of the book which allah promised to protect got lost.

A good number of them are people suffering from personality disorder. While they are supposed to seek help, they justify their actions and even go on giving people money in developing countries to join them. How do you explain the children and the many people that went to the national assembly to protest sometimes ago?

Evidence please. You know I used the hadith extensively to prove my points.

You have now been humbled with your own book. Someone said islam will decline with the knowledge of the hadith on the internet.

Now that you have seen islam the way it actually looks like, you can ask me questions on christianity. Any question at all.

We are discussing the portion of allah's book that was eaten by goat and not whether Muhammad attempted suicide or not. Lets trash out this one first.

Did jesus fight any battle? Did the apostles fight any war? Did Muhammed fight? Did his companions fight?

I thought you were consulting the books. Ok, let me help you

1. Was he meek?
2. Was he temprate?
3. Was he peaceful with his neighbours?
4. Did he love?
5. Was he godly?
6. Was the man humble?
7.Was he merciful?

Give me 5 virtues of godliness as demonstrated by your prophet. There must not be other hadith where he acted differently I will know he came from Allah and not allah. If you do it, you have attacked the root of my unbelief and you have successfully converted a soul to islam and allah will reward you with a lot of multiple sexuall partners in the hereafter

@ Muhseen

I'm not misguided. I follow Jesus of Nazareth who warned us that false prophets will arise and deceived many( My word-Muslims). My jesus is the truth, the way and the eternal life. Anobi's lifestyle showed clearly what he was. Show me a man so violent. So intolerant of critics even of those that were harmless like bint marwan and I will show you allah's messenger.

I have not been to a Jews home but I have a copy of the torah

So you mean you don't have any copy of  hadith?  You can go to this islamic sites to read, ok. Don't be angry at what you are reading they are authentic. That is why I always quote sahih Muslim or Bukahri.

[size=14pt]أدعو الله أن تظهر لك الحقيقة[/size]
http://www.iiu.edu.my/deed/hadith/muslim/content01.html

http://www.luvu4luv.com/Hadith_Bukhari.html

The bible records that at a point he became sorrowful because he was a human. yet he must be brave to taste death for every man.

I used islamic resource to proof the falsehood of your prophet, you have accepted my position because you could not refute. Were you not the ones that asked for a proof? May God deliver you from this divinely inspired ignorance.

@Muhseen

How did the quran show he was a genuine prophet? There are a lot of so called holy books, does it mean they all came from God? The fruits of Muhammad's life are there for all to see. Some of his teachings look like bear the signature of an illiterate. He was so addicted to sex that he told his followers that there would be orgies in muslims paradise he even had sex with Mariyah, hafsas slave girl that he had to beg her not to let anyone know anout it.

Jesus was completely human. What the cristians are saying is that God the son took human form in the person of jesus. He hungered, wept for jerusalem, got tired, slept, ate etc. just like you and me.

@ Olabowale

You said you are an old man, Well, I appreciate your effort in trying to enlighten us about islam. But you did not show me where the verse of stoning is written in the quran, you only showed me the verse of flogging. Why was something of that magnitude not written?

@Ruhu etal.
Your defense is weak because you do not have adequate knowledge of the hadiths. Lest you say I’m lying, I’ll show you an authentic hadith to show that the unrecovered parts of the quran were meant to be part of the Quran. Moreover, you said “the verse was not intended, therefore it was not written down”. What about the part of the quran that was recovered from the memories of the “Qaris of the quran (those who memorized it)”? Umar shouldn’t have included them since they were not written down. You also said it was documented by Aisha. I’m sure Aisha was also an illiterate; she may not even have her own private stenographer. Watch out for the big and bold fonts in the below hadith.

Sahih Bukhari 6:60:201
Narrated Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari: who was one of those who used to write the Divine Revelation: Abu Bakr sent for me after the (heavy) casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Qurra' were killed). 'Umar was present with Abu Bakr who said, 'Umar has come to me and said, The people have suffered heavy casualties on the day of (the battle of) Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be more casualties among the Qurra' (those who know the Qur'an by heart) at other battle-fields, [size=14pt] whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost, unless you collect it. [/size] And I am of the opinion that you should collect the Qur'an." Abu Bakr added, "I said to 'Umar, 'How can I do something which Allah's Apostle has not done?' 'Umar said (to me), 'By Allah, it is (really) a good thing.' So 'Umar kept on pressing, trying to persuade me to accept his proposal, till Allah opened my bosom for it and I had the same opinion as 'Umar." (Zaid bin Thabit added Umar was sitting with him (Abu Bakr) and was not speaking. me). "You are a wise young man and we do not suspect you (of telling lies or of forgetfulness): and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Apostle. Therefore, look for the Qur'an and collect it (in one manuscript). " By Allah, if he (Abu Bakr) had ordered me to shift one of the mountains (from its place) it would not have been harder for me than what he had ordered me concerning the collection of the Qur'an. I said to both of them, "How dare you do a thing which the Prophet has not done?" Abu Bakr said, "By Allah, it is (really) a good thing. So I kept on arguing with him about it till Allah opened my bosom for that which He had opened the bosoms of Abu Bakr and Umar.  [size=14pt] So I started locating Quranic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, leaf-stalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who knew it by heart) . [/size]. I found with Khuzaima two Verses of Surat-at-Tauba which I had not found with anybody else, (and they were),



In conclusion, from the above hadith, the verse was supposed to be part of the quran. I want you to show me a hadith where muhammed said the verse was not meant to be a sunnah.

D H Lawrence did miracles/magic too.

@Olabowale
<sub>a married man or woman who was caught red handed by 4 witnesses in sexual intercourse with somebody he/she is not married to, when tried and found guilty, without a denial of the offense by calling the wrath of Allah on him/herself, in the fourth swearing, such a person must be stonesd to death. but in the stoning process, he or she can escape death, if a denial of the offense is proclaimed.

in war, killing is permissable.

what about in Christianity; is there a point or an event that permits killing, either as a defense against an agreessor or offensive move towards an evil doer who is determined to kill you?</sub>


Can you show me where it is in your quran?

Are you telling me that if a man is 51% good and 49% bad he will enter into paradise?

My dear, not even one atom of unrighteousness will be allowed. Jesus said in mark 5:48 "be ye therefore perfect as your heavenly father is perfect"

If Moses was not allowed to enter canaan land, though not heaven, for disobedience, after all his labour, you should then see the sinfulness of sin. God hates sin. SIN means trangression of God's law.


To enter is like passing through the camels eye, but as a christian, i know it is by grace. I don't know whether muslims believe in God's grace.

@ Last poster. Here is my reference.

PRESENTATION OF ISLAMIC SOURCES


From the Sirat Rasul Allah (A. Guilaume's translation "The Life of Muhammad" pages 675, 676.


Note: My comments will be in [ ] type brackets. Notes by the Translators of the texts will be in { } brackets.


`UMAYR B. `ADIYY'S JOURNEY TO KILL `ASMA' D. MARWAN
She was of B. Umayyya b. Zayd. When Abu `Afak had been killed she displayed disaffection. `Abdullah b. al-Harith b. Al-Fudayl from his father said that she was married to a man of
B. Khatma called Yazid b. Zayd. Blaming Islam and its followers she said:


I despise B. Malik and al-Nabit
and `Auf and B. al-Khazraj.
You obey a stranger who is none of yours.
Do you expect good from him after the killing of your chiefs
Like a hungry man waiting for a cook's broth?
Is there no man of pride who would attack him by surprise
And cut off the hopes of those who expect aught from him?






Hassan b. Thabit [Muhammad's poet] answered her:


Banu Wa'il and B. Waqif and Khatma
Are inferior to B. al-Khazrahj.
When she called for folly woe to her in her weeping,
For death is coming.
She stirred up a man of glorious origin,
Noble in his going out and in his coming in.
Before midnight he dyed her in her blood
And incurred no guilt thereby.


When the apostle heard what she had said he said, "Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?" `Umayr b. `Adiy al-Khatmi who was with him heard him, and that very night he went to her house and killed her.


In the morning he came to the apostle and told him what he had done and he [Muhammad] said, "You have helped Allah and His apostle, O `Umayr!" When he asked if he would have to bear any evil consequences the apostle said, "Two goats won't butt their heads about her", so `Umayr went back to his people.


Now there was a great commotion among B. Khatma that day about the affair of bint [daughter of] Marwan. She had five sons, and when `Umayr went to them from the apostle he said, "I have killed bint Marwan, O sons of Khatma. Withstand me if you can; don't keep me waiting."


What kind of prophet was this?

@Poster

Have u ever seen the Tawrat (Torah)? Do u know any prophecy contain therein?

@Poster

Your prophet was asked to perform a miracle by the jews in quraish, he told that he could not do it. That he was just a warner. All these miracles were later inventions and deception used by him to keep people under his spell. Do you know he elevated himself to the position of a god, by saying "We" when referring to his revelations. Moreover, he said muslims should not answer a call if they are praying, but he called someone when the man was praying, the man did not answer only for mohammad to chide the man that it is only him that has the right to call muslims even if they are in the presence of "god". Go and think deeply about the man you are following. He used his religion to favour his course, I can prove it any day even from your hadiths and quran.