https://www.nairaland.com/6227967/fear-kids-future-nigeria

This is an interesting read

jajeri3216:



I really don't know, na you go explain that one.

But abroad , 50k and above is middle class.

No dey compare yourself with western retirees who have inherited fortunes, invested early or worked hard all their life and now enjoying in the Bahamas.

Just roll up like the rest of us

I hear you

jajeri3216:



It would take folks earning 12 million per annum donkey years to save 150 k, same in abroad ( Deduct expenses).

Essentially you're still a struggle middle class like the millions of middle class Nigerians who fled , cause the burden of the inefficiencies of the state must be factored into your state of affairs..

Wanting to go to a sane environment is not materialism ?, well that means all the good stuff in sane societies just appeared out of nowhere, without any conscious thought of wanting something better.

Upper class folks have options and in many cases abroad is the least of their worries.

Struggle middle class
That's a nice one lol
I like it

Though on a more serious note
What range of networth will you put one who is in the "struggle middle class"
Let me hear your perspective on this one

And what will yoi consider as "Upper Class"
Give figures in Naira terms

Its interesting to think that some here think it's finances that is the major reason why ANYONE would want to move

Cyberknight:


Lol, this man.

Just pretend u did not see that part lol

jajeri3216:



I don't agree, surely there's nothing wrong if one decides to travel, but to say you're living comfortably and still want to travel is a bloody contradiction, better to say I'm managing ,maybe your definition of comfortable is different.

While you're busy typing long epistles and even going as far as the Carribbeans re citizenship, did you know that with 150k eur you could get Maltese citizenship, a member of the European Union?

150k is chicken change for truly comfortable people or at worst should find affordable, more than likely these types don't fetishize abroad but they may apply for it just for safety.

So finance must be a challenge and hence the motivation to emigrate, if not there are so many options.

Accept your reality to allow you make informed decisions.

I don't agree, surely there's nothing wrong if one decides to travel, but to say you're living comfortably and still want to travel is a bloody contradiction, better to say I'm managing ,maybe your definition of comfortable is different
This is not true
One can be comfortable and still want to move to another country
Like I said, those of us who were running expres entry back then were definitely NOT STRUGGLING
If you are a struggling person
You will not be able to even commence that race

WES Evaluation
Cost of extra certificate to get more points
Doing TEF Canada
Proof of funds
Paying for the PR application upon getting ITA
All that costs money that a struggling person will not be able to cough out

I hope you know that
Folks earning N12m annually
Even N24m annually are on the queue for Express entry
In a poor country like Nigeria
Earning that much money makes you very much comfortable

So finance must be a challenge and hence the motivation to emigrate, if not there are so many options.
So according to you, "finance must be a challenge " is the motivation that every person who wants to move elsewhere has

Dont you know that people move for different reasons?
And not every Nigerian is driven by materialism and money money money?

How about living in a sane environment?
How about raising your kids in a better place ?
How about wanting to live in a place where you dont have to constantly be looking over your shoulder?
Reasons like that are the main motivating factors for me
Not even financial reasons as such


Accept your reality to allow you make informed decisions
Of course
One should not delude himself
That's the same advise I'll give you as well...
Know yourself and your circumstance
And make decisions accordingly
I have done mine
Do yours as well

Peace

einsteine:


Hushpuppi didn't get a citizenship by investment. Do your research. He had to do a phony marriage in order to get it as I am sure he failed the character check.

You are right

That is why St Kitts were able to denounce him ASAP
Denied him like Peter denied Jesus lol
There are some countries that have even blacklisted Nigerians, Iranians and Afghans outright

einsteine:
There seems to be a misconception about Citizenship by Investment programs. Most buyers of these programs are not relocating to these Carribbean countries. In fact the majority remain in their home countries as it is just for the passport. Nigerians make up only a tiny fraction of them as Chinese, Arab and Indians are the top subscribers.

Also, someone said drug dealers and fraudsters are the ones subscribing for them from Nigeria. Very unlikely. The Carribbean countries conduct strict background checks as it is a significant revenue stream and they won't want to lose visa free access to key countries (that's where the value of their passport lies in). I think it was St Lucia that lost visa free access to Canada after giving citizenship to an Iranian. Requirements are more stringent now and go beyond just having the money.

For one, you must pass Interpol clearance.

What you said is true
The consultant that I subscribe to has mentioned all these
However, like you said, some of those who get these citizenship do so for ease of travel, while others do it to stay in the country
Case in point, Dan Blitzerian father
He has been in St Kitts and Newis for a long time

Russians are very big on this CBI thing
There are others who do it and then go back to their own countries
Some do it for tax benefits too
It depends on the individual need of the person involved

Residency is less stringent than citizenship though when it comes to background checks from what I know
You have a deep knowledge of this this process
Seems you have interest in it too

As for reputation, that is why St Kitts had to denounce Hushpuppi ASAP when he got caught (because he held their passport and was using it)
If they did not do so, the passport of St Kitts MAY have suffered some reputational damage

And trust me, its not only Hushpuppi that holds one of these passports
Some other Nigerians do
If not that we dont have leaders that are smart
Wouldn't we have designed a similar residency program

einsteine:


What I was talking about is different from domain sales.

Domain sales is a bit like buying and selling land. It is speculative in nature as there is no ongoing cash flow. You are buying a domain in the hope that the value would increase or someone else would buy it at a higher price.

A web business on the other hand is like having a property. You earn cashflow. For example, Nairaland is fairly passive in terms of the revenue it generates. If it were to be sold, it would sell for 2-4 times yearly earnings.

Okay
I see the diffeence
Thank you for the clarification

einsteine:


If you run content sites, you are essentially getting passive income over the internet. It's just like real estate. Infact, it's better than real estate as you can buy a website averaging monthly passive revenue of $200 for as low as $4000.

I used to hear of those guys who used to sell domain names
I never really understood that thing
But people in that space make money
From what I was told

I dont really know
But what I k know is that opportunity dey out there

Lazyyouth4u:


Please don’t get my point wrong o. There’s nothing wrong with moving to another country if one is frustrated with his situation in Nigeria. But don’t just jump from fry pan to fire.

Some of those countries you are listing are countries that even the citizens are struggling. And life is not as cheap as you think it is. At the end of the day, you are a foreigner and you will be discriminated against. Big time. Mind you, many of the so called Nigerian expats you keep talking about in those countries are into yahoo, drugs and other criminal activities. Others are doing the lowest level menial jobs to survive.

You sound like a smart chap and I’m very sure you will do well in Naija or other countries where there are jobs for legit immigrants. I maintain that Naija is not that bad if you are doing well. And some people are. No be human beings dey make that N50m wey person mention the other day?

My advice. Focus on finding a good job in Naija and try to build your career while trying to get permanent residency in countries like the US, Canada, UK, etc. Alternatively, with a few years solid work experience, try to get into a reputable school where recruiters from top global firms will pick you up and put you on jobs with those armed robbers salaries any where in the world that will enable you save enough to retire early and then go and relax in the Caribbeans with lots of passive income from your investments.

Also, find a girlfriend jare. That also helps to take your mind off all the nonesense going on in the country. Again I’m assuming you are into women

Noted
Cheers
Though I'm not sure I'm ready to change my current job just yet though
But thanks for the advise nonetheless
It is taken in good faith

Donbrig:
The way things are going in this country, military might likely surprise the nation before year end or early next year, things are just too bad and out of control with a president we don't know if he is dead or alive. The news going on behind closed doors among top military officers is not good at all.

Buhari is aware they want to take him out as soon as possible. Democracy is a scam, we need a good military dictator with a vision and mission, like Thomas Sankara of Burkina Faso.

Either we believe it or not, democracy will never take us anywhere in this country, Just look at the endless process and duration our lawmakers and politicians are taking to do things that will uplift the common man on the streets and develope the country.

God knows China wouldn't have been where they are today if they had followed due democratic process in building their nation.

This is an interesting point of view
I personally believe that there is a degree of maturity a society must get to before they can practice democracy in its true form

Democracy is not ideal for a society that

1) Holds strongly to religious ans ethnic identities
It be clouds judgement
2) Has the vast majority of its populace ignorant, stupid and uneducated which then leads to the third one
3) Dont know what to expect from those they put in power and what is Their right in a democracy

China understood that their people then were largely ignorant and stupid
Hence why they designed their government using the meritocracy way.....
Only those who are well educated and competent run everything while the rest watch on....

So I agree with you
HOWEVER!
This kint of system can only take you so far,
Without transition to a more democratic system

Stagnation will result
That's my fear with running this kind of system in Nigeria
When it is time to transition
Will those in Abuja be ready to give it up?

emmanuelewumi:



Business over the internet and day trading is not passive income ooo

That's true
But you can convert what you make into buying equities that will then bring you passive income
Just saying
These countries are not so expensive to live in like that

A decent income can see you through
As a single person though

If one decides to settle down and now have a family, in some instances, this life may not be too ideal anymore

Donbrig:
Nigeria is critically hard and millions of wealthy Nigerians are already relocating their wealth for preservation and security of their lives and properties. I wouldn't blame them though, our problems are so much that the more you try to solve them, the more the problems increase.

If you have the resources to relocate if you are young or get a residence permit in a civilised society for yourself and kisd, don't think twice before taking action.

If you think all is going well with your life and business in Nigeria today, think about your children who might not have such zeal or rascality to survive in our animal kingdom called Nigeria.

Wealthy Nigerians, virtually all of them are so worried and concerned about the future of their children than any other thing else. We mustn't blame Nigerians for trying something else for a better future for their children.

Thank you very much
You get where I am coming from
One wanting to emigrate doesn't mean he is having a difficult life, or is struggling, that is what many erroneously assume

When I was still running my Express entry, I kid you not, you will see folks earning what some will call "fat salaries " also putting their documents together for Express entry

Does it mean that all of us are "struggling " or "cannot do better in Nigeria "
The answer is NO.

Well after all said and done, like I said before, everyone to his aspirations.
Those who think they can do it and are working towards it can give it a try

Those who think Nigeria is paradise (which I personally think it's very ridiculous btw, but that's me ) can work towards planting more gardens in their paradise

Those who want to emigrate as professionals to the western world can also go for it

At the end of the day, time will tell whether you made the best choice for yourself
OR NOT

Lazyyouth4u:


Growing Naija expat community in Panama? E be like say you like trouble. What do you think most of those Naija guys in Panama do for a living?

Naija is hard without a good job and it can drive anyone crazy but don’t go and jump from fry pan to fire in the name of checking out from Naija o.

And please stop talking about being frugal and saving money to go and retire in the Caribbeans after some years. At your age, how much you wan save?

Maybe you should try and find a girlfriend in Naija . I’m assuming you are into girls sha.

Growing Naija expat community in Panama? E be like say you like trouble. What do you think most of those Naija guys in Panama do for a living?

It varies from person to person

But no one really goes there with the aim of looking for a job. It's what we all know

Naija is hard without a good job and it can drive anyone crazy but don’t go and jump from fry pan to fire in the name of checking out from Naija o

I wonder where this statement is coming from though
Did anybody commenting here tell you they are "unemployed " or "without a good job"?

And please stop talking about being frugal and saving money to go and retire in the Caribbeans after some years. At your age, how much you wan save?

This comment is amusing

Are you in my pocket to know how much I make? Lol
Or do you know me personally to know my age?

Maybe you should try and find a girlfriend in Naija . I’m assuming you are into girls sha.




That said
Your concern is kind of valid
No one should do follow follow
Do your due diligence before making any life altering move.
No one should just make a move without "calculating the cost and the risk "
Evaluate your options
And make your choice

NL1960:


How many years is the "some years"?.

Depends on the person

emmanuelewumi:



Nigerian expats doing what in Panama? Hustling or living on their passive income

Living off passive income (their investments they made over the years )
Some do their business over the internet
Some are day traders
Etc

Some unfortunately are into fraud (like the ones in South Africa)

moneymanager:


He knows we are different. It’s an attempt to see if they can goad us to revel info about ourselves by e-defacing us.
What unity bank and oando could not do

O and what?

Bwahahahahaha

79733139:
If you talk about per capita in almost everything, Japan is way ahead. Here is a simplified example: China makes a lot of money but when you divide the money with the population, the amount (per capita) is way lower than Japan.

100 children make $100 million ---> China ($1 million per child)
20 children make $50 million ---> Japan ($2.5 million per child)

The funny thing is that
Even when it comes to money
Jaoan and china is almost even in absolute terms
Despite the fact that China is WAY MORE POPULOUS

Case in point
China holds $1.3 Trillion of US debt
We never hear the last of it

Japan holds $1.1 Trillion of US debts
We never even hear of it
Japan is the biggest NET creditor overall
We don't hear of it too
Japan is the third biggest economy on earth
Technology like no where else
All that

If not for the us intervention in south east asia
Japan would have had the DEADLIEST MILITARY in that region
But American foreign policy of the last few decades curbed a lot of things

Gentlebuka:


Ion know much about politics and world economy sir. But to say that Japan is greater than China in everything says much about how much you know about this topic. Even with the little I know, I know that Japan cannot compete with China, especially in the area of technology and trade volume

Japan is technologically ahead of china
Like way ahead

Japan handles the high end of the value chain
China handles the low end of the tech spectrum

Name one Chinese brand that is bigger than the best Japanese brands , like say Sony or say Toyota
Name one
Japanese products command more pricing in the international market than chinese products
Japan is the biggest creditor nation (people think it is China, but Japan is low key and do not have to brag about it)

Japan has a sturdy capital market that china can only dream about, I dont know the exact figures, I'll have to check, but if I am to take a bet, Japan has a bigger capital market than China
Yes I said it
Chinas capital market is still a dwarf in comparison to the size and sophistication of the Japanese market...
I'll have to check later for the actual figures

Trade volume dont mean squat
Trade VALUE is everything
Japan cannot compete with China?

Lmao
Chinas edge over Japan is the ability to produce things CHEAPER due to the conditions in China
That's about it

Japanese investments in china drowns Chinese investments in Japan
Japan even colonised and defeated China at some point in their history
It's an insult to compare Japan with China

megawealth01:
I can bet it that you and PETER are same

Dont be too sure
It may be possible

But there is that chance that they are two different people who have similar viewpoints and perceptions

ojesymsym:
I do not think it fits into what I think your so called 'EXPATS' means. There is a reason why the word nomads is included in that phrase

Well, maybe it's a case of nomenclature
These terms sometimes overlap

9jatriot:
LOL.... But this your idiom of wet behind the ears, I never hear am before o.
Which one is this "expat" that Dexter is throwing around? Is that a new slogan? Or is he trying to reference digital nomads?

If the guy wants to travel abroad, there is no need for long tory, go there and join those hustling it out. But if you want to reach the level where you are a very big boy before applying for Visa, then you have to have a different mindset and skill set. The problem usually is, when you reach that level, you only begin to see those countries as holiday resorts and not to stay.
Lazyyoot de try sha. Since when Carribean Island enter list of countries for Nigeria to migrate to? Do those guys even want crowd?

Interesting perspective
And yes
Digital nomads fit the description of "expat"
Thats one category of people that can fit into that box.
That said, the caribbean have many programs for residency and citizenship for those who are interested and qualify

The figures are quoted in USD and because our currency has taken a big hit over the last 6 years, converting such figures to naira make the money look "voluminous" lol
Bahamas at some point were giving those who can prove they have annual cashflow of $14k annually residency
No extra requirement or restrictions

Multiplying that figure by 199 gives a far different figure than multiplying it by 470
There are different programs in different parts of the world
One who is interested and qualify can find one that suits him, and aligns best with his circumstances

jajeri3216:


I enjoy how u keep educating Dexter.

Despite his claims of experience, he seems a little wet behind the ears.

"Claims of experience "
Lol

Lazyyouth4u:


How much can you possibly hammer as a young man in Naija to let you retire to those countries? Except you are a yahoo boy or a drug dealer running from the law.

Mark my words. Any young person that is legitimately making cool cash in Nigeria is not thinking about checking out to go and relax for the rest of his life in some Caribbean country. Naija is too sweet for young people making legit money.

Different people with different mentality
We all are not a monolith
And our definition of "sweet " differs from person to person
The general definition of "sweet" in Nigeria and amongst many Nigerians doesn't align with my own definition of "sweet"

Its something I would actually do if I could AT THIS MOMENT
And btw, living costs are not so "pocket destructive " in some of these countries
So what's the big deal

There are millennial doing their thing, that spend far less time in Nigeria than they do outside Nigeria

And as for the question below

How much can you possibly hammer as a young man in Naija to let you retire to those countries? Except you are a yahoo boy or a drug dealer running from the law.

My answer to it is in the post you quoted to make this question
As quoted below

"It just takes some years of serious hard work and frugality to get to that point though"

Well, each one with his different viewpoints and mindset

We all have our different aspirations and perceptions of how life should be, and I can understand that

There is a growing Nigerian expat community in Panama though, so dont think its something that is not already happening

Gerrard59:


Something she's done already? Taiwan is the next target. What did the west do? Offer citizenship to Hong Kongers, of which how many accepted? At this point, there is nothing the west can do to China. China isn't Russia or Japan during the Plaza Accord. We're talking about a nuclear power that's rich unlike subservient Japan. As for the Japanese, those ones are forever hooked to China irrespective of her relationship with western powers. The level and magnitude of trade between Japan and China is something the former cannot let go off. So, she has been behaving appropriately.

At most, the west moves to South East Asian countries who are also hooked to Chinese money and can never generate same revenues/profits as Mainland China. BTW, why is Malaysia not interested in the ethnic minorities' issue even though they're Moslems? Wealth is power and it commands respect even if the wealthy person is loathed.

This comment makes me laugh
China's economy that America can fracture in six months is who you are hyoing up like this lol

The only thing standing in the way of America (and their european gang members) from totally fracturing the chinese economy is because of CORPORATE INTERESTS
Like I said
China is their wealth extraction tool
Why rock the boat

If China thinks it has two heads
Let that bill to expel Chinese companies from wall street get signed (It will) if they refuse to open the books in the next few years

As jara, china being declared as a currency manipulator and is treated like one
The Chinese economy will fall apart
Even the CCP knows it
And that is why they tread carefully


And btw, Japan has seen that China China covid 19 saga fractured their supply chains

So they are divesting almost totally from China
$2.2b has been passed to aid Japanese companies slide out of china, to the next wealth extracting tool

Jaoan is a country china wish it could be, but cannot be
Japan is ahead of China in everything
And can also inflict damage on china as well....
But American interests in china is in the way

China knows its limits
They cross the red line, and the rug will be pulled off their feet.
The entity list is still there....

All it takes is for america to throw all chinese companies in that list
It is FINISHED for them
There are so many things on the table if it comes to showing China its place
The only country that could shake american hegemony in that region, the Americans have already co opted them

The chinese have been able to make money
That's not in doubt
But the Japanese themselves are also VERY loaded and can match the Chinese money for money
Even force for force

Gerrard59:
It happens all over the world. It's why Japanese prime ministers dare not visit the Yasukini Shrine so as not to anger China mainly because China is her major trading partner or why CEOs in the US cannot openly criticise Chinese treatment of ethnic minorities or why the Australian government is regretting her moves against China.

No one disrespects a rich person. Wealth begets power.

China indeed
These West (Japan inclusive) is playing a game that the Chinese are yet to understand
To them, China is their wealth extractor
Nothing more, nothing less....
Walk street has enriched itself from the blood of the hapless Chinese

When these gangsters have no use for china anymore, the rug will be pulled off their feet.
And as for the Uighurs
The westerners just dont care about them
Let chinese try the same with Hong Kong or Taiwan
Let's see whether the world will ignore

Lazyyouth4u:


Let me clear you something real quick as it seems you are mixing up stuff.

When you hear those oyibos on some online forums talking about moving to Central and Latin America and the Caribbeans to live on their passive income, these are typically retired folks o. People who have saved up one or two million dollars in their retirement accounts but know they cannot live in the US and other Western countries comfortably in retirement due to the very high cost of living. They then move to the Caribbeans and Latin America where life is generally cheaper.

We also have those that are running away from the high taxes in the US. They renounce their citizenship and move to cheaper countries where life, food, wine and women are cheaper. They are the so called expats you will find in countries like Ghana and Kenya running after young oloshos with their retirement money. Life in Africa is good with their dollars.

Don’t confuse that with Africans that are trying to emigrate to seek greener pastures. These are typically younger people with no passive income o. Except you are Deziani and Maina running from EFCC, chances are that you are going abroad to hustle and these countries you are listing are not countries to go to for hustling moves.

Yea
You are 100% correct
However
Young men (single, or maybe in a committed relationship with no kids ) who have "hammered " small can also live the "expat life"
It just takes some years of serious hard work and frugality to get to that point though

And yes, "expat life" is not designed for the TYPICAL AFRICAN who seeks greener pastures....
USA is No. 1 for hustling fellows (if they can get there)

NL1960:


To some Nigerians, any country outside Nigeria na to hustle.

That's true
Being an "expat" is slightly different from looking for where to hustle though
There are westerners living here on the continent under such arrangement

craleonic:


Okay

I forgot to add Canada and Australia
They have express entry