oyb:

from your post history, it is clear you are another gej apologist and revisionist

it took the us ten years to hunt down osama , but in the immediate aftermath of 91, there was decisive action. we did not see bush go on air to tell us no the saudis are our brother they could not have done this, or invite arab leaders to the white house for a press conference

the man you are making excuses for attempted to pin the bomb blasts on his political opponents. do you think we all have short memories and cannot remember na we do am?

the man you are defending had advance warning that there would be a bomblast, and chose not to inform the people who fought for him. he stayed behind his human shields, and allowed the ss to go throigh with their rain impeded countermeasures.

today, a year later, no one has been brought to book

guess what, your al qaeda crap doesnt even wash - within 2 weeks of the attack, they had all sorts of info and had pieced together the identities of the hijackers , how they did it etc. and since then they have been able to foil several attempts to repeat 911. if osama was a resident of the us, and not in hiding in a locale they knew nothing about, they would have gotten him much sooner

the home grown timothy mcveigh was caught within 96 hours of the oklahoma city bombing

similarly, after the uk's 911, several attempts have been foiled

now lets look at nigeria, where the president wrings his hands and tells us it is our burden, it is our turn. i suspect these are utterances of his security chiefs that he is repeating, because he is too daft to know any better.  

the bizarre references to a coup, as some sort of evidence of buhari's weakness makes it clear tat you are just some election swiftboater called out of the woodwork to take over from beaf.  

we ae not talking about soldiers skulduggery here. we are talking about the will to ensure there is security in the country. if i remeber correctly under buhari, we had firing squads, execution of drug pushers an all out war against indiscipline.  

under gej we get three year jail terms for bh associates

we get bizarre comments like it is our burden

lets go back to the us you keep referencing . remember rudy guliani, mayor of new york, or was it governor. the man became a national hero in the aftermath of 911.thats what real leaders do in a crisis. they rise to the occasion. we need a winston churchill, not a chamberlain who will be kowtowing to the barbarian horde.

I can see its still a huge challenge for you to discuss issues. Maybe you will improve one day. I will give you the benefit of a doubt and respond:

1. What was the immediate response that you referred to in the aftermath of 9/11? Invasion of IRAQ? The last time I checked. That still remains an unpopular decision with no WMD found. Secondly that didnt stop terrorism, did it? So you think coming out to spout tough rhetoric will suffice as decisive action? hmmm!

2. Who is Boko Aram? Can poor people buy bombs? Can poor people sponsor these kind of attacks? I dont think so. It is definitely backed by politicians! So why not arrest them? Simple, because you cant get any evidence against them because it is a terrorist group you are dealing with. They dont go to beer parlour to boast of their actions like armed robbers or kidnappers. They dont even talk to close friends and relatives.

3. No one has been brought to book? How do you bring people to book in terrorist situations? Osama was not discovered after 9/11. He has been known to be the head of al Qaeda long before 9/11. the leaders and structure of Al Qaeda were known long before 9/11. So saying they got information 2 weeks after the bombing is funny. The suicide bombers were simply traced from their flight records. That a simple thing to do. It actually didnt take 2 weeks. The hijackers were known the same day because they boarded the flight and their records were there. same way the Abuja UN bomber was identified. Thats the easy part. The hard part is knowing who sent them. In Al Qaeda's case, it was clear as Osama was dishing out video tapes everywhere.

if osama was a resident of the us, and not in hiding in a locale they knew nothing about, they would have gotten him much sooner

Very true statement because they have a national database! Did that ever occur to you? Also, they have a citizenry who would report the slightest movement of even an ant. Have you ever heard of anyone in Borno state coming out with information? In fact, they started calling on the government to leave their state alone. If you ever travel abroad, you would understand how security works. It is not just about the sophistication of the agencies but a lot rests on the cooperation of the citizens.

we ae not talking about soldiers skulduggery here. we are talking about the will to ensure there is security in the country. if i remeber correctly under buhari, we had firing squads, execution of drug pushers an all out war against indiscipline.  

with all due respect i would have loved to know if you are over 30 years old. You sound like you are under 30. There were firing squads, executions and all sort under every military regime. That was the bane of military rule. It was not perculiar to Buhari. If you were over 30 years, I would have asked you tell me what the perception of Buhari was in 1990 and 2000. He was known to be a weak leader who hid in the shadow of his deputy. He was never a factor in all the major happenings then. When the June 12 saga was on, he was not a factor. When Nigeria was on the brink in 1998/1999, he was never a factor. He didnt make any input and nobody really cared what he said or did. I am actually surprised he has gained some relevance lately. He was nothing then. That shows the only thing that gave him some relevance recently was the quest by the North to wrest power.

Please tell me, if Buhari was powerful and loved by people, especially the North, why did they not fight for him in 2007 when he boldly claimed the election was rigged in favour of Yaradua? Fact: because he is nobody and only gained relevance this time around because the North wants power back. Period! That is why, as soon as he lost the presidential election, the North turned around and voted PDP governors because they dont do opposition. This is simple maths.

One thing I have come to learn and respect the North for is that they know what they want and they dont hide it. It is only in the south where people double speak because we have many traitors

texazzpete:

So you're saying the strength and will of the leader does not matter since we're dealing with 'unnatural human beings' abi?

Oya, go and find out how many terrorist attacks have taken place on US soil since 9/11. Go and find out how many top Al Qaeda men have been killed on Obama's orders.
Obama had the willpower to order the assassination of Bin laden in foreign territory. He ordered the death of a US Citizen (Al Awlaki) in Yemen.

Terrorists are fearsome, true, but a strong leader with the right amount of brainpower can do much to defeat it.

Sadly, In Nigeria we see GEJ grab a microphone and tell us that "This bombing is uncalled for"

Ok lets take a good look and ask:

1. How many years did it take the US to finally track down and kill Osama? answer: 10 years and billions of dollars
2. Why is there still terrorists attacks in Pakistan and Israel with all their military mights? answer: Because terrorists dont have a face and are not afraid to die so the will of a leader means nothing to them

Are you saying it took the US ten years because their security agencies didnt have much brain power? Terrorists are not militants or an army. US would have defeated them in one day if they were an army. They are still attacking aroundthe world till tomorrow because they dont fight fair. They have no face. The US with all her might lost the Vietnam war. Why? Because it was a different kind of war?

The key to stopping Boko Aram is intelligence but that too its the biggest problem. Why? Because they have the sympathy of the people. until the people give them up, they will continue to thrive. Lets leave out the sentiments. This is not about defending GEJ but about facts. I ask before and will repeat again,

Why would a suicide bomber be afraid if Buhari was the president when he has already agreed to die? That is an oxymoron. The leader in power will not make any difference to him. The old Boko Aram were people who were not willing to die. They were political thugs. The new Boko Aram are real terrorists. This is a different ball game bro. Maybe the good thing about all this is that we can finally split the country.

hercules07:

@dmainboss

Ask the Chadians what Buhari did to them, do you think Idiagbon was more respected than Buhari in the army?

Buhari did not do anything to anyone. Dont let anybody deceive you. A military government is very different from a civilian government. I remember when we demonstrated in 1994 during the June 12 saga. Nobody thought of Buhari the way some of you talk now. I am so surprised that since the CPC campaign, all these funny stories of Buhari are being peddled everywhere. Back in the nineties, Buhari was only remembered as the failed and weak Nigerian president whose deputy ruled for him. I dont know where all these Buhari praises are coming from. Probably from a generation that didn't know what happened back then.

Idiagbon was not only more respected in the army, he was more respected in the whole country. Idiagbon was seen and knowm as the man who called the shots. As proof that Buhari didnt have any serious respect or following in the army, the coup that overthrew him was the easiest since independence. No resistance of any kind. that only happens when you dont have a strong army following. Orkah coup would have easily succeeded if it was Buhari in power. It took the IBB boys to stop Orkah coup. I dont like IBB or Abacha but you have to say they had good following in the army. OBJ still has the biggest base in the army, believe it or not. like him or not. Buhari was a nobody in the army. He was non existent. He was never an active person in the military. Go check the records from 1966 coup till he became president and after he left.

When you overthrow a civilian government, you have to make it look justified. That was what precipitated all he tried to do then. The country was not in any crisis when he took over. There were economic issues alright but the naira was still 1:1 with the dollar. Nobody was suffering. we had free books in school and ate free meals sometimes. Things really became bad during the IBB years. IBB is the guy that really took us to the cleaners.

Abacha did nothing and spoiled little. Buhari is not a tough guy. He is just an opportunist who has seen that he can play on the northern sentiments that they want their own to rule. That is why he has been playing the sharia card since the OBJ regime. He was the first to come out and support Yerima on the sharialization of Zamfara state. He later went on to tell Moslems not to vote for Christians. Just playing on their sentiments. Nothing more. If he is really a strong leader, he would have a strong following. Atiku might be bad, but you have to give it to him that he is a strong leader and it shows in his followership base. If not that men like OBJ backed GEJ, it would have been very difficult for GEJ to beat Atiku in PDP.

Dont also forget that Buhari was not a strong leader like some of you try to portray. He was so weak, his deputy ruled for him and immediately his deputy went on a short holiday in Saudi, he was overthrown without any resistance in what was the easiest coup ever in Nigeria.

The level of ignorance in here is very sad. Boko Aram as it stands right now is an extension of Al Qaeda. If very tyranic Islamic leaders in the mideast cant curb terrorism, what makes you think Buhari or anyone will.

You need to understand what is going on to comment. Saying that Boko Aram is happening because GEJ is weak is a very poor understanding of the situation. Please Google up and read about how terrorist cells work. I was a grown up when Buhari was president. Maitasini and the old Boko Aram were known groups with recognition. This new Boko Aram is a typical terrorist group that have received training from Al qaeda. This has been confirmed by both the Boko Aram guys and CIA. They dont have a face and have no real location.

When you go for a hit as a suicide bomber, you may not even know who your real boss is or you may never have met him. There is a hierarchy.  The only way to curb and reduce terrorist activities is by the involvement of the society where it exists. That is why terrorism has reduced in many western nations. Because when the whole community becomes a watch dog, then it becomes very difficult for the terrorists to strike. That is why it is difficult for Boko Aram to operate in the south. I am not saying it is impossible, just saying it is more difficult. But in the north, they have the sympathy of the society. So no one will provide information. Some of you are very quick to attack our security forces but you forget that even security forces of western nations are only as good as the participation of the community were they operate. If you dont get the cooperation of the community, no matter how sophisticated you are, you cannot fight crime. That is why it is very difficult for US police departments to fight crime in Latino and black communities. Because these are closed communities where the people dont cooperate with the police and do have sympathy for the criminals.

Buhari being the president would have done no better except if the BOko Aram feel in some way that he protects their interest. These guys are not normal thinking people.

Let me ask: Do you really think a guy who is ready to do suicide bombing will fear someone called Buhari or any other person? lol

onye_ngbu*:

For all you fools who has kept saying that boko haram has been around b4 GEJ, i cant agree less BUT tell me:
1. how many bombs did they detonate all that time?
2. How many containers of arms  were intercepted in our ports?
3. Why did the bombs suddenly start exploding immediately it was obvious GEJ is goin to contest as PDP candidate?

Funny question with obvious answers:

1. They have been building for over 10 years, since sept 11 2001. It takes time and money to build terrorist cells
2. Terrorists dont ship arms through ports. Arms dealers do that but terrorists dont do that. It will expose them too much
3. It was a good time to strike having built the base over the years. It was also a good alibi to get the support/sympathy of the nothern society. If they dont get sympathy from the northern society, they wont last.

BetaThings:

You are the one that needs refresher course
Seriously! $300 and $1,000, about 70% decline. In the value of US dollars?
We are talking about US, not some bankrupt country

Are you saying we cannot measure economic growth in current dollar terms in a non-hyper inflationary economy?
If you are saying that dollars have fallen in value, then you are even weakening your own argument
Because Naira has fallen more
Meaning that we have borrowed more in Naira terms
Exchange rate was N125 around 2005 and it is N160 now
If I owed $1m in 2005, that was N125m but it is now N160m

I need an extra N45m to pay off the same debt
If we even factor your assumption, it is worse because our currency has fallen harder against a falling currency

But you can attempt this type of wrong analysis against me (although you have failed)
But how has Jonathan and his team reported economic performance
Do they use your caveats?

It is sad you cannot understand a simple thing as this and went on to type so much for a simple one liner that really needs no explanation. My statement was very simple

You cannot compare debt dollar figures of 2005 to those of 2011. The value of $1000 dollars in 2005 and 2011 are not the same. The value of $1000 in 2011 may be $300 in 2005. Get your economics right.

In economics, the value of money is not in the figure but in the buying power. Buying power is continuously influenced by inflation. So the value of $1000 dollar today might be $500 tomorrow. That has nothing to do with exchange rate. The value can also be influenced by other factors like new breakthroughs in technology. For example, A camera phone which cost around 60, 000 5 years ago, might cost 20, 000 now. That means that as far as that commodity is concerned, the value of 20, 000 has changed. It can go either way, positive or negative. I feel funny having to give this basic economics 101 lesson. I didnt say dollars have fallen in value. We are talking value of money not exchange rate.

dayokanu:

Someone said Jonathan has been in the office for 8 months, WHo was Nigerias President 12 months ago?

When you want to have a good discussion, then you must not allow your emotions dictate what you say. GEJ has been a duly elected president of Nigeria for about 8 months. From taking over after the death of Yaradua to April 29 was a transitional period dogged with so much road bumps and fighting. That is not a conducive period for any meaningful development. Even presidents and leaders of developed countries acknowledge that the year before a major election is a very difficult year for any leader. You can say what you like but that is the reality on the ground. 4 months was completely wasted just trying to decide if he can take over or not because of a constitutional lacuna. The NASS had to do something that many still consider unconstitutional. Immediately after that began the very tumultuous journey to bring in a new government. Electoral reforms, party in-fighting, Political unrest, Security challenges, North demanding a consensus candidate and heating up the polity, all packed into one because of a very hot power tussle for the control of this country. So you can say what you want but You cannot judge GEJ by the transition period. simple as that.

4real:

@Dmainboss the answer to your question will be France and another would be the usa unless you dont know your history,

I know my history well bro. The USA had a civil war not a revolution by the masses like the one I am describing or you are refering to. Thirteen colonies came together to fight against the British.

The french revolution is the only closest thing you can find. But it was against an aristocratic leadership. Against a dictator not a democracy.

JamesDoe:

^^^^^^^

And just like that, the DEVIL comes to claim his b.a.s.t.a.r.d ids.

BEAF/BARf, we know you have many Nairaland accounts. Stop dodging behind them.

That insult was to draw you out and it has. Proof that the cretins and mooroons that support GEJ are few. So many NL accounts belong to one person. The demon spawn known as BEAF.

The late Chuba Ukadigbo refered to statements like these as "The rantings of an ant!"

You cannot contribute to Nigeria because you lack common sense. This is the best you can do!

Criticism is good but when it is mixed with cynicism and/or partisan interests, it becomes destructive. Cynical critics dont ever help any system. they only contribute to its problems. Look at Egypt and Libya and tell me what the so called revolutionaries have done. The Greeks have carried out a revolution and they are still on the same spot. German revolution produced Hitler. Tell me how many countries that has really being transformed by revolution? The only thing that can really transform a country is faith. Belief in the country and its future. That is how America, China, and other past and present emerging powers have come to be.

^^^Amen. Thank you for the prayer. It meant a lot to me. Please join us to change Nigeria instead of being a cynic. Otherwise the train will leave you behind.

BetaThings:

Excellent work!
Thanks
Don't mind the "analytical" red herring that the man was trying to throw up
When Jonathan talks about his achievements, does he mention all the caveats that the guy is putting in
Has Jonathan ever mentioned the gini coefficient, human development index while talking about his achievements
Jonathan has piled up debt the fastest in recent history. And somebody is talking of inheriting a mess

Let us ignore distractions

The usual dodging of issues when you get stuck and cannot substantiate your points. Listen again: You cannot compare debt dollar figures of 2005 to those of 2011. The value of $1000 dollars in 2005 and 2011 are not the same. The value of $1000 in 2011 maybe $300 in 2005. Get your economics right.

BetaThings:

Is this guy with PhD in Econ from England also an illiterate too?
http://www.businessdayonline.com/NG/index.php/analysis/columnists/30984-the-debt-in-2012-budget

This year (2011), just six years after Nigeria’s glorious exit from the Paris Club of Creditors, the country’s total debt is more than its 2005 levels in US dollar terms. In 2005, before the debt deal, Nigeria’s total debt was US$ 32 billion. But in 2011, it has increased to US$40 billion

So if he has PhD in Econ? Are there not hundreds of PhD in Econs all over Europe and America and their economies are still going downhill? The problem with book people is that they just quote theories but leave out bigger factors like cultural and political factors. Sometimes, these other factors have more influence in economies than just the laws of demand and supply. That is why the western economies are still going down with all their book knowledge.

BetaThings:

Ask him, not me. He is your man in whom you have absolute confidence!
As to bullying, he can resort to that. We saw the intimidation in Bayelsa recently at the PDP primary
The security on land, air and at sea was frightening.
And of course, pure old bribery will be added.

I did not tell you I have full confidence in GEJ. I will be a fool to tell you he is doing 100%. My point is, the guy is reeling out some great policies and he needs support not outright condemnation when he hasnt even started. All those who bashed him and called him names when he mentioned fuel subsidy are now turning around to accept it albeit, with conditions. But initially, he was called all sorts of names and termed a failure for even mentioning that fuel subsidy must go. The same will later apply to the one term proposal. People must listen and thoroughly scrutinize before condemning. Like was said in the debate, there has been a lot of distrust accumulated inherited from previous governments, but we must give him a chance to do what is right. Judging him at this time is totally wrong and in many cases, a product of partisan stance.

BetaThings:

Jonathan has been in office for 21months, ie longer than Buhari spent in office
50yr old mess? How
You mean that ALL past governments have done nothing
I don't like Obj, but I might start mentioning his achievements
Any reform in the power sector = states can generate power etc is due  to the NESR Act of 2005 passed by Obj
Tell us the constitutional reform (apart from single term) that Jonathan has proposed

Even if you argue that Jonathan has not been around for long, he sure has been able to grow our debt faster than the rate at which GDP is growing or even the level of depreciation of the Naira
BTW, forget 1999. What has been happening since Feb 2010 when Jonathan assumed office

Jonathan has been selling oil at high price and in large quantities since he is a post amnesty Ag president and president

Just look again at your post. OBJ was there for 8 years. GEJ has only being there like 8 months and you compare them. Does that sound fair in your books?
Again, OBJ took office in 1999. He passed the NESR in 2005, That is six years down the line to even formulate such a bill. It seems you didnt notice that. Again, a bill that was passed in 2005 was implemented in 2011. Another six years later and you think the whole credit should go to the man who passed it 6 years ago. Doesnt sound fair or reasonable, does it? Give the man his credit when it it due. That is why some of us will come out and support him because some of the criticisms look too biased. If he didnt believe in or supported the NESR act, will he be implementing it?

Just to remind you:

GEJ presided over the new electoral act that is accepted by almost everyone. The act was used to conduct one of the freest and fairest elections in the country under GEJ's watch. Hope you havent forgotten so soon. He has gone ahead to pass the FOI bill and several other bills in this short period. Now we are on the verge of deregulation of the oil sector and the energy sector and you still say the guy is not competent. Please what is your yardstick for competence. I will like to know please!

^^^Meaning what? He will buly NASS to accept his move? Didnt the Reps vote in someone as their leader against the wish of the party? Or you have forgotten so soon? NASS is an independent body. No president can bully them to submission. Period!

^^^You give a flawed analysis and expect everyone to applaud you? How can a government that just started be a spectacular failure? What an Oxymoron! A government is handed a 50 year old mess to sort out and you say he is a failure in less than a year. When policies are just coming into place. You must be objective and logical when you post or else you will be labeled a party hack and cynic or worst still a tribal bigot.

You just threw figures around and expected us to applaud you as a guru. It doesnt work that way bro and no amount of bullying will make falsehood become truth or make sensible people accept propaganda!

^^^ I see u are tactically avoiding the point.

So the National assembly are all GEJ sycophants? Dont forget the NASS who are spending such ovverheard consist of people from all the parties. The same members of the opposition who are against removal of subsidy. Please address my points above

^^^ again another flawed analysis. What was the cost of oil in 1999? What was the cost of a simple commodity, e.g cement in 1999 and cement in 2010? What was the exchange rate in 1999 compared to 2010? You have to do proper economics my friend or ask an economist to help you. You just cant compare figures directly between 2 different periods without looking at the factors that existed in both and without considering inflation rates

For example if government borrowed money, say 1 billion dollars,  to build an airport in 1999 and now they want to build another airport in 2010, how much do you think they will borrow? I billion dollars again? You need to do a much more credible computation my friend.

1. I VOTED JONATHAN AND AM VERY PROUD I DID. Those of you who didnt vote him were fools and you will eat your words. Thank God I didnt vote anyone else. I will vote him over and over again!

2. Comparing Nigeria's borrowing of 1990 or 2000 to 2010 is just ridiculous. What was the population of Nigerian then? People in their bid to criticize and justify their cynicism just type all sorts of crap. The debt has increased because the population and, consequently, the demands of society has increased. That is elementary stuff. And this is the first time in a long time a president has ensured fuel is constantly available. That means, subsidy has been provided constantly for importers to keep importing fuel. Unlike governments did in the past, which led to fuel shortages and scarcity in the past.

3. If the man is dull and still beat Atiku, who was one of the foremost politicians in the country from the famous Shehu Musa Yaradua PDM camp and beat the combination of IBB, Atiku, Gusau and Saraki in the PDP primaries and went on to beat Buhari silly in the presidential race, then I will like to be as dull as this man. Period! This is very productive and successfull dullness. I will rather be a successful "retardeen" president than be a couch potato keyboard cynic typing their ignorance. lol

1025:

nigeria has three(3) cabalsss viz;
1. PDP
2. PDP
3. PDP

who produced an aged (whitehair) criminal(ex-convict) in the name of bode george - pdp
who produced a man/woman gov that could travel as a man and come back as a woman - pdp
who produced president with a wife whose money laundry case is still pending - pdp
who produced a 16 day gov and a few months senator in one andy uba - pdp
who gave contract of N300B to tony annenih without execution but funds released and no question - pdp
who gave out a $16b electricity contract that worsened our power supply - pdp
who, who and who - pdppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp - power to the criminals.
siemens, harlibutton, wilbros and every other internationally related scandals are linked up with this cabal(pdp)

nigerians must get ready to kill these cabals alongside their families. we must destroy them the way libyans and iraqis did to their cabals so that nigeria will begin to move forward.

These are the kind of stupid posts you get from partisan ACN or CPC apologists. Was there PDP in 1990 or 1980? Or did Nigeria get her independence in 1999? Is Tinubu a member of PDP? Was Oshiomole, who supported the removal of subsidy, a member of PDP? Please stop derailing important discussions with your party campaigns. All politicians, irrespective of their parties, are the same.

I am more disappointed with the comments I have read here than what the PH guys did.

1. Luciano is a world class artist and cannot, I repeat cannot be compared to any artist in Nigeria. Pleaseeeeee. I you dont know music, go and learn. If you think Terry G and Timaya and P Square are talented when they cant even sing without the aid of computer, then you are a product of the failed Nigerian education system. These Nigerian artist can only mine on stage and you calll them talented? You lot are a disgrace. Luciano is a legend and his performances are world class. I can understand if you say the PH crowd do not know him. But to say he is less talented than these wack Nigerian computer miming artists, is just ridiculous.

2. Warri guys would never do that. Warri is a town where real reggae trives. One of the most popular reggae artist is Warri is Sonia spence. Another is lucky Dube. Calabar is another strong reggae city. PH is a highlife town and all they can really appreciate is high life. High life  is great music so dont get me wrong.

3. CNN just released a list of the most popular African artists and only 3 Nigerians made it. Asa at no 1, Nneka at no 3 and Tuface at no 4. These are true Nigerian artists with real talent. All these other people you call talented artists are not on the list because they are simply local champions. All they do is hype and false claims. Using computer to help their singing. They cannot hold regular concerts and shows around the world and their music is not even in stores around the world. So please dont compare them to legends like Luciano.

http://9jabeats.com/ranking.php?mode=blog&message_id=685&row_template=news_page.tpl

4. Many of these posts here just shows the kind of music many Nigerians listen to and why many Nigerians have very low mentality. How can you listen to lyrics from Psquare, Terry G and Wizkid and end up intelligent? I hope you dont bring up your kids with such trash

I posted this in another thread:

We need to properly define the term cabal. I think most are getting it really wrong. The cabal is not really powers/persons that be but more of policies/systems/environments that be. Anyone with the resources can take advantage of it. When some refer to Otedola and others as the cabal, they really get it wrong. The real problem is that, during the military era, many policies were made and systems setup to favor their selfish interests. Now anyone can take advantage and exploit the nation. Fuel subsidy is just one of those. Other examples are the number of states, LGs, number of government staff, policies barring private participation in many sectors, etc

Ok lets not resort to a fight but lets get the facts right. Nice rhyme. lol

Back to business. You still miss a fundamental part of law here. A man is innocent until proven guilty, not the other way round. Chime is the one suing for defarmation, he doesnt have to prove his innocence.

Secondly, my point is not based on my support for Chime. I dont know the guy neither am I from that state. I am just trying to hit a balance

Again, and most importantly, we have to assume that the paper had evidence in the first place before going to print. They should produce that evidence in court and clear themselves. If they dont have evidence before going to print and they now come and say Chime should do a test to prove anything, that will be the most stupid thing I have ever heard. Whether they are right or wrong, they will still be in trouble if they ever printed without evidence. That would be a dangerous thing in society if people can print things without evidence and now come to court and ask the judge to help them get the evidence. It is not the duty of the judge to help you get evidence. That will be really funny. And in this case, Chime is not the one on trial. I hope you get the gist.

^^^ Nigeria may have corrupt politicians, but that does not mean every rumour you hear about them is correct or true. Even all the ones you listed above might not be true. We live in a society of haters and people trying to bring others down. So categorically concluding that any story you hear about someone must be true is very wrong. You might be in a great position one day and people are going to talk about you. When you are a leader, you are always a target.

So stories you hear may be true and they may also be false. The only way we can truly know for sure is evidence else we will have a barbaric society.

jeffman:

the thing is removal is subsidy is not bad in itself especially if it is done right. it is the intentions of those pushing it I don't trust. I personally think GEJ & Cohorts just want to chop money.

meanwhile for those who believe in politicians (GEJ, Tinubu, Fashola, Oshomole , Sanusi). I tell you all politicians are same. You cant know their intentions.

If GEJ just wants to chop money, he doesnt need to remove subsidy. That will be a long route. He just simply needs to collaborate and connive with the fuel importers or better still, add one of his proxies to the list of importers. Have you ever thought of that? Allowing the money to come into the system before trying to "chop" it, is a very loooooong thing.

Sometimes you just have to believe even in the midst of chaos. Not the whole world is as bad as you might think.

apocalypse:

 

Your post shows you know little or nada about the law , as a public figure your privacy has been thrown out the window. Gonzo journalism abounds everywhere , ever heard of the enquirer. Sadly I don't see the paper company winning this cos the governor would have covered all his tracks before coming out to sue.

So being a public figure gives a media organisation the right to print falsehood? Haba my bro, why you shooting yourself in the foot? Please stick to your profession whatever that is. Law is definitely not your forte. Law is based on evidence and if there is no evidence, its falsehood and you can sue the guys as.s. There is no sentiments or hearsay in law, only substantiated facts

rati ken:

I didn't feel any pulse for the masses from the govt reps, a lot of stories covering the real motives. Points i got from this debate are

1) No doubt, subsidy needs to be removed but under certain concrete conditions,
2) The govt categorically told nigerians today that corruption cannot be brought under control, as such the cabals are in charge of the economy. In that case subsidy removal is not the solution, cos every sincere initiative and policy will be hijacked by d same cabal.
3) If a federal govt agrees that it cannot build or run a refinery due to powers that be, then such govt has failed already. The only cabals that exist are the ones only allowed by the govt in power.

My conclusions are that govt is keen on removing subsidy and will do same in 2012; Things will get really messy not because Nigerians will revolt directly but there will be indirect reactions from various quarters that might get things out of control. Its gonna be dirty guys, yes it will cos nobody wants to die of hunger and starvation.

Less than 20% of the nigerian populace understands the dynamics being discussed but the impact will hit everyone. Don't be in a haste to predict reactions as people are already distressed with the currently subsidized PMS. There is a lot of poverty in the land already.

We need to properly define the term cabal. I think most are getting it really wrong. The cabal is not really powers/persons that be but more of policies/systems/environments that be. Anyone with the resources can take advantage of it. When some refer to Otedola and others as the cabal, they really get it wrong. The real problem is that, during the military era, many policies were made and systems setup to favor their selfish interests. Now anyone can take advantage and exploit the nation. Fuel subsidy is just one of those. Other examples are the number of states, LGs, number of government staff, policies barring private participation in many sectors, etc

I think today's debate was a big step forward for Nigeria. One thing I took away from the debate was that there needs to be a sincere effort by both the government and opposition to move Nigeria forward. The mentality that the opposition has to oppose everything the government does will not help Nigeria. Yes, I accept and totally agree that there must be strong opposition but just opposing everything for opposition sake will not move Nigeria forward. There must be sincere dialog and collaboration amongst all. Other points I gathered from today are:

1. The opposition should please have some economic gurus to do these debates, not just lawyers and social critics. The likes of Femi Falana have good intentions but he is not an economic guru and most of his contributions are those of a social critic.

2. Nigeria has got some young talents that can take us forward. We must give them a chance.

3. The debate was really about Nigeria not just about oil subsidy. The debate laid Nigeria bare before our eyes to a good extent. for example, there are many policies that were selfishly made by the military that must be changed.

4. Oshiomole is just another good politician. Not a peoples man as he has tried to portray over the years.

~Bluetooth:

and you think if a journalist approach this guy,he's going to tell him that he truly fu-cked his in-law ? If you have been around Naija politicians,you'd know that  s e x  means nothing to them.I know one idiiot like that even invites girls to his office and catch his fun there.

What are you saying bro. If you cant get evidence, dont print it. simple. If you print it without evidence, it is rumour and defamation. If you really need to print it, then get the evidence, even if you have to spend money to get evidence. Its called investigative journalism. There must be rules in society or we will become babarians!

if evidence is not required to print stories, then we will have a world of free blackmail

Nairaland peeps self and their ignorance. It is not for Chime to prove anything. It is on the newspaper to prove it had compelling evidence before publishing such a story. It doesnt matter whether it is true or not. If the newspaper did not have enough evidence to publish such a story, they are done. I am speaking from a legal perspective. Forget the sentiments. Chime is not the defendant. He does not need to defend anything. It doesnt matter whether the story is true or not. It is wrong for a public media outfit to start printing things without real evidence. They better have serious evidence or they are fried. We must not enter the sentimental boat and start talking about the story being everywhere. Journalism can be a good tool for improving society but the present Nigerian journalistic landscape is really shiiite! I hope if they are found guilty, it becomes a precedence for people to start suing for libel.

We want corruption and other vices exposed. But we do not want destructive propaganda journalism. Maybe Sahara reporters will be next!

LeoMax:

EFCC is busy arresting yahoo boyz who are actually repartriating money into the economy than arrest cabals who receive subsidy money and go ahead to even sell the fuel to other African countries @ 140 naira. Doubl profit. They are bigger than most statements and sponsor PDP. We know their names, if EFCC wont send them prison then see armed robbery in 2012.

Cabals are not collecting subsidy money. They are doing legitimate business. The problem is the environment and policies have handed them the opportunity. The cabal sponsors all parties including ACN and CPC. Please dont take us back. We have gone past this

Like Oshiomole said, this government inherited a lot of distrust. But some major quick actions and stick will be able to cushion that.

It is interesting that labour has subtly admitted fuel subsidy should go but with certain conditions in place like reforms in NNPC and several other fundermentals. I think this debate is a major punch by GEJ. A very major score! If they build on this, fuel subsidy will be gone in 2012. But I also think it has brought some things to the knowledge of the government, especially about how they need to build trust! Very key!

hercules07:

Just making a point with Fash, oya back to the topic, I do not trust Okonjo how can I trust that Fisherman from Bayelsa.

You see now? After you will say I am trying to introduce tribalism to this thread. If I referred to one of your own in such a derogatory way now, you will start to yap! You people cant change! Its pathetic. Insultin the whole people of Bayelsa! Bigots!