solite3: God can dwell in a tainted vessel. The mission of Jesus is clear he came to save sinners, if you deny that Mary is not a sinner it would mean that Mary is not among people Christ died for hence making God a liar.
Why did Jesus die? Was it not because of the sin debt we owe? You don't know what you are saying
Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Saying Mary have no sin means she isn't part of the new covenant since the blood of Jesus does not apply to her
Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
The function of Christ blood is clearly outlined it is to remit for sins.
Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Saying Mary had no sin means she wasn't redeemed by the blood. The redemption is forgives of sins since Mary has no sin to be forgiven of it means God's riches of his grace didn't extend to Mary.
Hebrews 5:1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
Every high priest offers gifts and sacrifices for sins. It means Mary does not need any sacrifices sin since she had no sin
Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; Was Mary sin among those sins Christ offered for
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: Did Christ suffered for Mary sins?
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. Is Christ the propitiation for Mary's sins?
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Was Mary washed from her sins with Christ blood?
Again Christ came to save sinners. Does that not include mary?
Only Christ blood was qualified for the sacrifice. Do you agree? Why was Mary blood not qualify?
Mary was completely filled with grace (Kecharitomene) even before Christ won grace for the rest of humanity on the Cross. She was Specially prepared not to sin simply because she was to bear God himself. There are somethings beyond your understanding of the Scriptures
kolawoleibukun: Will the Orthodox and Catholic Church ever own up to the evil they have done in this world? Will they ever be forgiven? Who will pay for the blood of all those that they have killed and buttraped?
Tyndale was Executed by King Henry VIII. Do leave The Catholic Church out of it
May this flame be found still burning by the Morning Star: the one Morning Star who never sets, Christ your Son, who, coming back from death’s domain, has shed his peaceful light on humanity, and lives and reigns for ever and ever.
I can show you in the bible too but your counting is wrong
If he died on Friday, Sat makes it day 1, Sunday makes it day 2 and Monday would be the 3rd.
He was crucified on a Thursday, making Friday, day 1
Saturday, day 2 and Sunday, day 3.
A day is 24hours
During the time of Jesus . they didn't use the 24 hrs make one day method. Day is day and night is night. Day is counted from sunrise and night counted from sunset. Jesus Said he ll rise on the 3rd day which was Sunday, so 2 days from it is a Friday
brocab: Church history is not where I belong, Christ is where I belong. According to {1 Timothy 3:15} the house of God “is the church of the living God.” Does anybody live in the Catholic Church. Is the Catholic Church "The Spirit of Truth or the Spirit of Error, Now he who keeps the Lords commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. Does the Catholic Church abide with Martin Luther, does abide with anybody outside the Catholic Church? {John 2:2-8} The Test of Knowing Him-Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. {1 Corinthians 1:10-13}Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,”{or I am of the Catholic Church} or “I am of Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? {Was the Catholic Church crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of the Catholic Church?}
Nobody and I mean no one has fulfilled the 10/commandments literally .So before u Judge Catholics Examine yourself first and see if u are in the truth. By the Works of the Law shall no one be Justified. U don't even Keep the Sabbath of the 10 commandments , u use Gods name in vain not forgetting Lying Cheating Immorality. U Judge Catholics as Idolaters but you are also guilty of Breaking the Law. Examine yourself. The Whole law is Fulfilled on one Commandment ,YOU shall love your neighbor. And in Christ Jesus neither Iconoclasm or Iconophilia is of Any Avail but Father Working through Love
I know it doesn't bother you. Does a pig ever bother about filth? No way! A pig no matter what you do to try to clean it up will always return to its filth.
An idolater will always remain one until his eyes are open to the wretchedness of his idolatory
And. Heretic will always remain a Heretic until his eyes are open to the wretchedness of Heresy
The Yoruba ATR claim that they do not worship their idols, the idols ate just channels to Olodumare. Yes, they bow down but their claim is that they do not worship other than God. How are you different? If the Catholics are justified, can a Catholic insist that the Yoruba ATR worshippers are idolaters? (You both seem to be the same).
BTW, we greet our elders not by proxy: we greet them directly. If you want to call the worship of the queen of heaven greetings, you do it by proxy, hence idolatry.
I read all your scriptures unfortunately, they are all misquoted. For the Ark of the Covenant, God promised to speak to the children of Israel from within it. And I asked, is the spirit of Mary in her image; you said no! For the bronze serpent, the children of Israel were to look at it for their healing: That was Gods solution for their healing. What is the biblical bases for paying obeisance to an idol of Mary?
Does my opinion matter? No! But the scripture matter especially when some godfathers decide to subtly introduce idolatory to the rest of you folks
The NOR here is exclusive. It means neither should you bow down to such images. Now, since neither God nor Mary are in your idols, why bow to them in direct violation of the scriptures.
Have you ever wondered why the images of Mary outnumber that of Jesus in the Catholic faith? If it was all for the sake of respect or greetings, who is more important: Jesus or Mary? But, the case isn't just this but a direct violation of the scriptures in the name of tradition.
The bolded is a complete misreprentation. A bible before a protestant has not a single spiritual value or connotation. Its as good as praying while kneeling down before a bed or a chair. Not so with you Catholics: the image of Mary is a spiritual object!
What is an idol? An idol is simply a physical representative for the invisible demon spirit.
So, one could have 10,000 images (belonging to several individuals or communities) yet, one spirit behind it. Same with Mary.
Have you wondered why the spirit called Mary sometimes appear to Catholics?
How come Peter, Paul, James and John seldom appears but mainly Mary? I doubt you know that demons impasonates. I've even met one in the cause of deliverance who introduced himself as Jesus and said we should not cast him out!
Catholics who bow to an idol are paying respect to an image who is a proxy for the spirit in charge! That is pure idolatory.
Do you know that Buddhists claim they don't worship Buddha!? They only bow to his idol! How pathetic!? How are Catholics different?
A final question: Through which of the Apostles or the early Catholic church Fathers did your tradition of making the images of Mary and bowing before it come?
As a yoruba person, you worship your elders when you greet them, right?
Notice something common in those two verses?
Your opinion does not matter. What matters is what the bible says. Protestants make these blanket statements like "God has forbidden the use of images in worship." But if you search the scriptures (John 5:39), you will find the opposite is true. God forbade the worship of statues, but he did not forbid the religious use of statues. Instead, he actually commanded their use in religious contexts (Ex. 25:18–20, 1 Chr. 28:18–19, Ezekiel 41:17–18, Num. 21:8–9).
Though bowing can be used as a posture in worship, not all bowing is worship. In Yorubaland, people show respect by bowing or kneeling in greeting before an elder or a king without worshipping him as a god. In the same way, a Catholic who may kneel in front of a statue while praying isn’t worshipping the statue or even praying to it, any more than the Protestant who kneels with a Bible in his hands when praying is worshipping the Bible or praying to it.
My brother tell him. They talk as if they Know the Mind of God, or as if they know the teachings of the Church. Their Opinions really don't matter. The Church has not survived for 2000years preaching heresy. We have Conquered a lot of heretical groups and one the Protestant Heresy will be no different
Even though I shouldn't reply you BUT All the Apostles were still alive at this point, Mary was still alive.
The Glorious ones are Angels and other Spiritual Beings which even the Arch Angel Micheal would not revile Satan
I didn't comment on Rev17:1-6 I thought you will say as usual that the woman is Mary. Of course you won't...for in truth it isn't Mary but who is SHE?
I leave that you to answer!
A harlot was once chaste!
I still marvel at you!
Bye!
Lol @other Spiritual beings? Who are other spiritual beings? The Apostles were alive but they were other glorious ones before them. Angels are still amongst the Saints. That's why we have St Michael and St Gabriel but of course u may still revile them No Connection between the Harlot and Mary so what's the point bringing her into Rev 17 Also there is no Connection between The Harlot and the Catholic Church except the one u guyz made up in your heads U marvel at me? Thank you but u have to revise ur understanding of Scriptures. It is highly messed up The Harlot mentioned is The Pagan Roman Empire and it is fallen for centuries
I have warned you. If you feel you should go on justifying Idolatory, its now your business.
I won't respond to any other post after this. I pray the Holy Spirit by His mercy open your eye to note that idolatory shall not be condoned by God in the name of Mary..
I can't help but to wonder in great admiration.
Sincerely, I pray for you. I wish you will try to understand Rev17:
Hahahaha Revelations 17 . lol ur misinterpretation of that chapter is Epic Using it against the Catholic Church is now stale. That verse in Peter was actually referring to u guys and he made it Clearer
10 and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority. Bold and wilful, they are not afraid to revile the glorious ones, 2 Peter 2:10
11 whereas angels, though greater in might and power, do not pronounce a reviling judgment upon them before the Lord. 2 Peter 2:11 It is Evident u guyz are the ones Who despise the Authority of the Church. The pillar and bulwark of truth And u revile the Glorious ones(Mary and the Saints)
You can't take just one part that is suitable for your argument. You have to take the whole text as a whole.
Revelation is symbolic: 1. Did Mary experience a prolong birth pang in the delivery of Jesus? 2. A great sign appeared in heaven: not on earth as Mary was here on earth. Do you think this is speaking of Mary? 3. Another sign took place in heaven where the dragons tail swept down to earth a third of the stars. Pls kindly link this up with Mary. 4. Can you reconcile "the wilderness" where Mary fled to with history? 5. If Mary is in the wilderness, is she not supposed to be called the queen of the dessert rather than the queen of heaven? 6. What is the relationship of the Sun, Moon and Star to Mary?
Did Mary Experience Prolonged birth? Pardon me did the passage did not in nyway suggest the Woman experienced prolonged birth. She was only in birth pains 2. I don't know what u r trying to get to with this? Christ was also given birth to on earth and not in heaven. So this one is hogwash 3. Third of the Stars in heaven could mean anything, it could mean a third of the hosts of Angels, it doesn't matter 4. Yes history suggests Mary and Joseph fled with Baby Jesus to Egypt, A wilderness to escape Herod The Sun, moon and Crown of stars all signify her queenship And John wrote the Book of Revelations in Patmos as a Very old age. So Mary was no longer on earth by this time
You can't take just one part that is suitable for your argument. You have to take the whole text as a whole.
Revelation is symbolic: 1. Did Mary experience a prolong birth pang in the delivery of Jesus? 2. A great sign appeared in heaven: not on earth as Mary was here on earth. Do you think this is speaking of Mary? 3. Another sign took place in heaven where the dragons tail swept down to earth a third of the stars. Pls kindly link this up with Mary. 4. Can you reconcile "the wilderness" where Mary fled to with history? 5. If Mary is in the wilderness, is she not supposed to be called the queen of the dessert rather than the queen of heaven? 6. What is the relationship of the Sun, Moon and Star to Mary?
John Henry Cardinal Newman wrote about this passage in Revelation:
What I would maintain is this, that the Holy Apostle would not have spoken of the Church under this particular image unless there had existed a Blessed Virgin Mary, who was exalted on high and the object of veneration to all the faithful. No one doubts that the "man-child" spoken of is an allusion to our Lord; why then is not "the Woman" an allusion to his mother? (On the Blessed Virgin Mary
You can't take just one part that is suitable for your argument. You have to take the whole text as a whole.
Revelation is symbolic: 1. Did Mary experience a prolong birth pang in the delivery of Jesus? 2. A great sign appeared in heaven: not on earth as Mary was here on earth. Do you think this is speaking of Mary? 3. Another sign took place in heaven where the dragons tail swept down to earth a third of the stars. Pls kindly link this up with Mary. 4. Can you reconcile "the wilderness" where Mary fled to with history? 5. If Mary is in the wilderness, is she not supposed to be called the queen of the dessert rather than the queen of heaven? 6. What is the relationship of the Sun, Moon and Star to Mary?
U ve gone through a lot of stress to convince itself that the Woman isn't Mary. How convinient, just because it doesn't suit ur traditional beliefs Well if the Woman isn't Mary, the Child can't be Christ for u As for us , the woman is Mary.Period
Then you have a lot of explanation to do of the whole text to convince us.
We know that Mary lived with John the Beloved till she died, so please educate us. We are willing to learn!
What is the interpretation of stars cast down to the earth? And when?
So, where did Mary run to Heaven or the Wilderness?
Why don't you interpret the rest of the Book of Revelation literarily!?
You just pick on a verse to give it an interpretation to suit your idolatory!? I shake my head
she brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, Revelation 12:5 Woman Mary Child Jesus. Every Unbiased mind ll agree
She is your queen of heaven. Are you afraid of interpreting the plain word of God in English language?
You just want to justify idolatory for the love of it. Are you saying Gods spirit is in the concrete/pop images of Maryvyou make?
That's why you won't dare answer my question.
The Mary I know from the Scripture is not the one you worship. The Mary I know is one of the Believers in Christ. Just like James and Jude.
Was Mary conceived immaculately too? She is a carrier of the sin of Adam. And for the MarybI know, Christ also died.
Revelations 12.
1 And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; Revelation 12:1
2 she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery. Revelation 12:2
5 she brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, Revelation 12:5
So This Is Evidence of Marys Queen ship. Whether u believe it or not, it doesn't Change the Truth I ve answered ur Questions fair and Square. U r just too mesmerized to admit it
The Mary we Honour is the Mother of Christ Whom the Holy Spirit prophecies that all Generations shall call her blessed.
for He has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden. For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed; Luke 1:48 And that's how it has been from that age to this one and it ll continue to be. We know the devil is still angry with her for her role In our salvation as the Bible says17 Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus. And He stood on the sand of the sea. Revelation 12:17
So we are her offspring and the Devil ll only try hr won't prevail. Please don't be a soldier of the Devil. Be a Child of Mary bear the testimony of Jesus
Stop twisting the word of God to suit your traditions. I highlighted the bible verse for you, didn't I?
And Mary the bearer of the "Word" was free from the sin of Adam: no wonder she is your queen of heaven,...
And there I will meet with you, and I will speak with you from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim which are on the ark of the Testimony,
And I asked my question: Is the Spirit of Mary in your Graven Images?
U didn't write the scripture, u didn't even partake in the Canon So u don't get to tell me I m twisting the Scriptures. U have no pedigree If the Spirit of God can reside in a graven image made with human hand, how then can he not cause that the Spirit of the Ever blessed Virgin The God bearer to reside in an image She is not our Queen of heaven. She is the Queen of heaven regardless of what u believe
Sorry for the late replies: over zealous Bots band me for no just reason.
Joshua did not venerate any image that is a violation of Gods command. However, from the ark, the Presence of God is made manifest to the children of Israel
In other words, the Spirit of God meet with the children of Israel from the ark of the covenant So, my question: Is the Spirit of Mary in your Graven Images?
Lol. Joshua prostrated face down before the ark till evening. That is veneration. However Just like Catholics , he did not worship it I can see u finally agree that God can meet us through images. U r finally making progress Mary is the ark Of the new Covenant. In her was Conceived the Word of God who is God himself. Just like the old ark was overshadowed by the presence of God. So Mary was overshadowed by the Holy spirit as the Angel Gabriel rightly said
And the angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God. Luke 1:35
So the image of Mary is the Carrier of Mary's spirit? You just proved that Marys image is an idol
Idolatory is Idolatory.
It cannot be justified.
I only proved that Joshua and Israelites venerated an image. Which is the Ark of the Covenant. And u don't know what idolatry is U seek to Justify Ignorance
Show me one place where the children of Is real bowed before (not worship) the ark or the cherubims on it?
Looking for excuse to continue tradition inspired idolatory?
And the bronze snake was to be bowed to as you do the image of Mary?
No wahala , I ve to keep teaching you
Then Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the LORD until the evening, He and the elders of Israel; and they put dust upon their heads. Joshua 7:6 So u see how Joshua and the elders of Israel Venerated the Ark of The Lord. If it were Catholics, u ll scream idolatory There is lot u are still ignorant of, even in the Bible
God is not against artworks but he is against any artwork you bow to like the image of Mary. Any artwork that receives obeisance of men is an IDOL!
Your church fathers through their tradition says you can bow down to the image of Mary but don't worship it!
You are not even ashamed to say the bolded. How are you different from the ATR who feel that God is too big hence they worship him through images?
IDOLATRY! Harlotry of the church!! when GOD told moses to build the ark of covenant he was advocating idolatory too? when he said mold a serpent and look up to it, he told them to practice idolatory too?
[quote author=shadeyinka post=65960926] I am not ignorant of what catholics believes: I spent 5 years of my Life in a Catholic School. Attended all your masses and learnt a lot of your doctrines.
I asked you to justify making graven images and bowing down to them (a direct violation of the scriptures)
Is this not idolatry?
Islam came up because of you guys. You know what Mohammed saw? He thought that the Trinity of God was God, Mary and Jesus. It shows how well you communicated Christ! 5 years of schooling in a catholic school doesnt mean u know shit. u still have not done RCIA so u dont know shit. u only criticize what u dont understand God is not against making images , he is against worshipping other gods be it an image or air or money God even instructed moses to build the cherubium which is a graven image.so images can be used to worship God as long as the worship is meant for him that being we dont worship images in the catholic church. we worship God alone, we honor the theotokos and the saints just like you honor your father and mother.cos we believe their souls is in union with christ in heaven who is in union with the church.Reason why we call it the communion of saints because to us though they are dead, they are alive in christ if Mohammed understood Trinity like that its as pitiful as your defintion of born again. you are in no way different from him, u both have perveted the teachings of the Catholic Church and God have mercy on you both
It is also pertinent to know that Protestants learnt to abhor images (iconoclasm) from Islam
Christ was a Jew!? And you think baptism was a Christian affair? Didn't Jews baptize?
You are just repeating yourself.
Show me how any of the Apostles sanctioned bowing down before an image (you will say you don't worship them, I hear you) or veneration of Mary or the other saints.
It looks like I am rubbing it in, and yes I am. Just to show you that many traditions other than that of the Apostles have crept in (and you follow).
Don't forget that a Prostitute was once a virgin until she started a new tradition of whoredom. When a part of christ adopts a subtle form of idolatory, I don't know what else to call it.?
Live your life by what is written rather than the traditions of men!
Paul said we should hold fast to the traditions they gave us not just the WRITTEN but also the ORAL form
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter. 2 Thessalonians 2:15 U claim to be wiser than Paul. U insist of Just the Written. And u interpreted the scriptures privately to suit ur own beliefs U are oblivious of the fact that no prophecy of scriptures is subject to private interpretation
First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, 2 Peter 1:20
Baptism wasn't in the Mosaic law Circumcision was their point of initiation into the old covenant
Unfortunately, I don't care about your so called reformers or Protestants. I care about what the plain word teaches about Jesus and His will for me.
I also know a little history.
As important as baptism is, Jesus parent didn't see a need for his baptism as a child!? The faith of the parent actually saves the child!?
I wish you could just bring a single example of any of Jesus Apostles who baptized a child!?
You don't care whether it is by immersion or sprinkling when you claim that it washes you from the original sin!? Can sprinkling clean?
Your so called church Fathers have never even studied under the feet of the apostles: hece they can bring in heresies into the church
Are you aware that some errors were about smuggled into the church even at the life time of the apostles?
You know what the Apostles said?
Now, some people came in to add what the apostles have not said and you say they are church fathers who cannot decieve the church?
I asked you some questions which as usual you dodge: 1. I can see that part of the apostles oral teaching is making images of Mary and bowing down to them. Can you find just one evidence? 2. I can see that the apostles oral teachings also taught purgatory (it is appointed for man to die once...after that purgatory). Just one evidence that suggests so? 3. The apostles also taught about the institution of the pope as the vicar of Christ. An evidence that Peter was called "Father/Pope"
Nobody really cares about ur interpretation of scriptures. In protestianism everyone is his own pope that's why u keep breaking into several divisions because none of u have authority. The scriptures can only be correctly interpreted in the light of Apostolic tradition and not on sola scriptural The Church fathers were tutored by the Apostles themselves Ignatius of Antioch by John Polycarp of Smyrna by John Clement of Rome by Paul Linus by peter. They went on to transfer these traditions to their successors until the 4th Century When the Catholic Church through them compiled the Canon of the new testament which is Just the traditions of the Apostles that were written down. They selected them from various circulating books because they knew which ones were in line with the Teachings of the Apostles. And they Knew the correct interpretations. So u still wouldn't have the Christian Bible without the Catholic Church and the Church fathers
The Apostles baptised households and Christ explicitly said let the little Children come to me do not stop them Christ was raised a Jew so the issue of his parents going to baptise him does not hold water
Even your church Fathers understand that they stood on shaky grounds when it came to Baptism (for it was never practiced as Born Again). If Baptism signifies being Born Again, 1. How many times can a person get born again in a lifetime? 2. Why do you then practice infant baptism (even though you get rebaptized as an adult)? 3. If Baptism is what you say it is, why do you practice baptism by sprinkling instead of baptism by immersion?
These questions will pick your conscience if you desire the truth.
Addressing the bolded: I saw a woman in scarlet
Not all who say to me Lord! Lord!! Shall enter the kingdom of heaven....
1. I can see that part of the apostles oral teaching is making images of Mary and bowing down to them. 2. I can see that the apostles oral teachings also taught purgatory (it is appointed for man to die once...after that purgatory) 3. The apostles also taught about the institution of the pope as the vicar of Christ... 4. We saw that Jesus had a harem of virgins/celibate women he called nuns(married to Jesus) and the apostles faithfully transmitted this down to us.
We only get baptised once. Whether as an infant or as an adult We don't bother ourselves about immersion or aspersion, they are both valid to us as long as its done according to the ancient faith handed to us by the Apostles. Which is the tradition of the Catholic chuch
Can't compare the Church fathers to 19th century mushroom theologians whom u follow. Some of the Church Fathers were taught directly by the Apostles themselves. They didn't have to read only the written traditions and interpret it the way it suits them like the Protestant leaders who came 1600 years after the Church Like I said I ll rather take the opinion of the Church fathers because they have pedigree. The Reformers do not. They ate mostly rebellious kids who were angry at their mother, the Catholic church, but What an old woman sees sitting the child will not see even if he climbs a tower
doyinbaby: Arguing with a catholic is a good way for a person to vex is soul......... anyway you still preach to them...,. however dont forget that Jesus said if you are not accepted in a city dust the sole of your shoe....
We don't argue with Protestants, we teach them There is a lot protties are ignorant of Afterall their religion was born out of Protests. So most of what the believe is reactionary. They seek to take Catholic beliefs and react to them in an opposing way Buy we pray the Holy spirit Guide them back to the Church, for they are prodigal Children
1. To understand what Jesus meant, we have to review 5 consecutive verses, not just 1 as is done by those who distort the Sacred Words of the Lord Jesus. In Matthew 23:8-12, Jesus said, “But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all students. And call no one your father on earth, for you have one Father, the one in Heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Messiah. The great among you will be your servant. All who exalt themselves will be humbled, and all who humble themselves will be exalted.”
When carefully examining the above verses, we see that Jesus did not only condemn the usage of the word “father,” but He also condemned the usage of the words “rabbi” and “instructors.” Why? It is because the Jewish leaders “loved to have the place of honor at banquets and the best seats in the synagogues, and to be greeted with respect in the market places, and to have people call them rabbi.” [Matthew 23:6-7] Jesus was condemning the Pharisees who were so full of pride, that they were doing all what was possible to achieve fame, success, rank. Their proud hearts were completely corrupt.
The Pharisees had elevated themselves above God as the ultimate authorities, as father image and teachers. Lacking humility, they failed to humbly look up to God as the source of all authority, fatherhood and teaching.
2. If we are to discontinue the usage of the word “father,” then we also have to discontinue using the word “doctor.” For “doctor” means a religious teacher, an adviser, a scholar, an instructor. The word doctor is Latin for the word “teacher.” It comes from doct-stem of docere which means “to show, teach,"
While it appears that Jesus condemned the usage of the word “teacher” in the above verses, in Matthew 28:19-20, Jesus appointed some men to be teachers of His Church. “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you.” It can be concluded that Jesus was not condemning the usage of the word “father,” “teacher,” or “rabbi.” He was telling the Pharisees to humble themselves and to stop seeking those titles for themselves.
3. If we are to condemn the usage of the word father, that means to deny every child in the world the right to make reference to his/her biological father. It means all the children will never be able to express that they love their father because such would be condemned.
4. If we are to condemn the usage of the word father, then no one would have the right to speak of the Holy Trinity, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. God the Father would become meaningless since it would be forbidden to refer to Him. The concept of Divine fatherhood would be none existent.
5. In the New Testament, there are numerous reference to the usage of the word “father.” In Acts 7:2-4, Stephen refers to the ancestors of Abraham, the word “father” being used. In Philippians 2:22, Paul said, “But Timothy’s worth you know, how like a son with a father he has served with me in the work of the gospel.” St. Paul refers to himself as a spiritual father in Philemon 10, “I am appealing to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become during my imprisonment.
Again, Saint Paul refers to himself as the father of believers in 1 Corinthians 4;14-15, “I am not writing this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you might have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers. Indeed, in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.
The above biblical references to the word “father” are sufficient to show that Jesus was not forbidding everybody from using the word “father.”
CONCLUSION
Having proven that it is permitted to use the word “father,” let no one condemn you for making reference to your biological father, or to your spiritual father, your local priest, of even for making reference to the Holy Father, the Pope, the head of the Catholic Church on earth. Learn the above references and defend the Catholic faith for the glory of God.
Also Apostle John called some Christains Fathers
13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, children, because you know the Father. 1 John 2:13
14 I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one. 1 John 2:14
Religion / Re: Pope Claims Angels Greeting Mary As Being Full Of Grace Meant She Is Without Sin by Dnaz(m): 4:11pm On Apr 27, 2018