₦airaland Forum

joey150:
Luke: 17. 12. And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: 13. And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. 14. And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed. 15. And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God," so Jesus healing was not enough?? why then did he ask them to show themselves to the priest after healing them??

He told them to show themselves to the priests in obedience to the law of Moses. Priests examined those who had been healed of leprosy to certify them clean and fit to mingle with people.

You still have not told me when the thief passed through purgatory.

joey150:
oh i have never been there.
but fire is never pleasant either

Explain purgatory in relation to this verse. "Then shall he say unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" Matt. 25:41

joey150:
i agreed because i assumed he had to be forgiven. you should do the same and agree he passed through a stage where he was cleansed.
if you dont..then sorry.
i remember also where Jesus told leapers to still go to the temple and carry out the normal rites even after he had healed them

LOL. I am forced to laugh. "you should do the same and agree he passed through a stage where he was cleansed".

Very funny. So, after Jesus forgave him, his sin remained? So Jesus' forgiveness is not enough for the sinner?

joey150:
hello did i mention torment?? hello what did saint Paul mean by he will be redeemed by fire? hello..what did Jesus mean when he implied in this world nor the NEXT?

i have addressed all this in the original post. am sorry if you expected a whole audio player of all what Jesus taught or said on earth. cause am damn sure its not all in the bible.

believing that it all starts and ends in the bible is a little naive. but thats a conversation for another time

Are you now saying the Bible is not sufficient for the Christian?

joey150:
hello did i mention torment?? hello what did saint Paul mean by he will be redeemed by fire? hello..what did Jesus mean when he implied in this world nor the NEXT?

i have addressed all this in the original post. am sorry if you expected a whole audio player of all what Jesus taught or said on earth. cause am damn sure its not all in the bible

But you said purgatory is not a pleasant place? Or is it now a place of enjoyment?

joey150:
on the flip side I actually agree that he was pardoned by Jesus.

GOOD.

Now, tell me when the thief passed through purgatory?

joey150:
i have given you instances where somewhere else where sins could be forgiven other than earth and heaven and hell.. so wht then do you still ask for teachings on purgatory?

if its the actual word purgatory you want me to show you..i gladly will when you show me the actual word BIBLE in the entire bible.

Show me a single text in the Scripture that teaches that people will be tormented and then sent to Heaven.

joey150:
i have given you instances where somewhere else where sins could be forgiven other than earth and heaven and hell.. so wht then do you still ask for teachings on purgatory?

if its the actual word purgatory you want me to show you..i gladly will when you show me the actual word BIBLE in the entire bible.

So, sins can be forgiven in hell too?

joey150:
Luke: 23. 40. "But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41. And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." i do not see where the thief asked for mercy there. point it out to me of you do. all i see is remember me in paradise. dosent sound like forgive me for my sins Jesus.

So, the thief was not begging for mercy? He was insolent in his request? Is that what you're trying to say?

If it is not by GOD's mercy, how can you make Heaven?

joey150:
if only you can tell me where i can find the word BIBLE in the bible.

LOL. Won't you teach me? Explain to me. Show me where the Bible teaches purgatory. You may succeed in teaching me what I don't know.

joey150:
when? how? where?

"And all things, Whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive" Matt. 21:22

The thief asked for mercy, believing, and he received it, according to Jesus' word.

Now, when did the thief go through purgatory?

joey150:
if only you can show me where the word BIBLE appears in the bible.

Okay. You still have not shown me a single text from the Scripture that teaches purgatory.

joey150:
when was the thief forgiven?

He was forgiven on the cross.
Now, when did he go through purgatory?

joey150:
haha. am only towing your path here. you said Jesus never mentioned purgatory to him.. i say Jesus also never mentioned he was forgiven either.

so if we still imply he was forgiven..what makes you think we cant also imply he went through purgatory before joining Jesus.

When did the thief go through purgatory?

joey150:
refer to my definitions of venial and mortal sins above

Who classified those sins? GOD?

joey150:
did Jesus actually say he forgave him? if he didnt, why then do you ask if he told him he would pass through purgatory?

You still have not shown me a single text in the Bible that teaches purgatory.

joey150:
did Jesus actually say he forgave him? if he didnt, why then do you ask if he told him he would pass through purgatory?

So, according to you, Jesus did not forgive the thief?

joey150:
clearly he didnt.
thats the more reason why Jesus came to live among men to teach us more about God. with time and the instances i gave in my earlier post, its quite clear that sins actually differs.
so all sins cannot lead to death.

What sins can you die for and what sins can you not die for?

joey150:
haha. did he really have to say so? what makes you so sure that the thief didnt? any concrete proof? because clearly nothing with sin shall make heaven as i stated clearly.. or did Jesus then lobby?

Are you trying to say Jesus did not forgive the thief his sins? If he forgave him, how come you still refer to the thief as somebody "with sin"? Or can sin remain after forgiveness?

Are you trying to say that the fact that Jesus gave the thief assurance that he'll make Heaven is not enough to bring the thief to Heaven?

joey150:
it dosent. am only trying to show you their are differnt kinds of sin. so when you say the soul that sinneth shall die.. remember all sins are not equal and all cannot attract death.

Did GOD Specify the sins one will die for in Ezek. 18:20?

joey150:
going by your same analogy, that thief on the cross with Jesus should have never made heaven too.

so Jesus was just taking him on a jolly ride then

Of course, the thief will make Heaven.

Did Jesus tell the thief he'll be passed through purgatory and then brought to Heaven?

joey150:
oh well i think i answered this earlier. anyway.. saint paul says in Romans: 8. 1. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. so its not just being on christ so its also to be sure that you do not also work according to the flesh. as also in 1 John: 5. 16. If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. it clearly shows that a soul may have a grave sin(mortal sin) or a non grave sin(venial sin).

How does 1 John 5:16 support the purgatory claim?

joey150:
where did i state that a soul that CONTINUES in sin will SOMEHOW i mentioned one how and only one way how that how can actually be how(dieing in the grace of God but still not completely stainless).

besides alot Changed when Jesus came to earth.

But GOD said that the soul that sinnet shall die. He did not say that the soul that sinneth shall be passed through fire and then made to live. How does that support your purgatory claim?

What and what changed when Jesus came to earth?

joey150:
IT says HE HIMSELF shall be saved by FIRE...

So, is there another means of getting salvation apart from repenting wholeheartedly from your sin and trusting in Jesus to help you, willingly obeying His word?

joey150:
not to say that christ suffering and death was insufficient or incomplete, but we still have our role to play. to think that Jesus has taken care of our future sins is plain ridiculous. even saint Paul even made a remark in phillippians 2:12 "work out your salvation in fear and trembling" . salvation is complete. but take for instance a football tournament..everything is set the stadias are Ready to host. but participants must still have to qualify,buy tickets, some will not even make it to the tournament. this dosent change the fact that the stadium is Ready to host any team that makes it through.

What part are we to play considering that GOD is able to cleanse us from all unrighteousness?

I never said Jesus has taken care of our future sins, though.

joey150:
unpleasant in the sense that.. its still purification by fire.

as mentioned in 1 Corinthians: 3. 13. Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

It is very funny how you isolate verses from their contexts and misconstrue them. Paul, in 1 Cor. 3 was talking about labour in the gospel mission. Just read from verse 6, and you will see that Paul was not talking about the so-called purgatory. He was talking about building up of the church. Every teaching built on false ideas must collapse, while the people who taught such will have a chance to repent.

It says a man's work will be tried, not the man. His work, not him.

joey150:
the soul that sinneth shall die... going by that statement we all should be dead..or shouldn't we?

So, how does it support you claim that a soul that continues in sin will somehow find life, even when GOD says he shall die?

joey150:
persons who die in Gods grace but still are not entirely sinless

So, does GOD permit dying in sin?

How can you be in GOD's grace and still die in sin?

joey150:
Even though our sins are forgiven,you need to cleanse the stains by some satisfactory works of penance(A voluntary self-imposed punishment for a sinful act or wrongdoing. It may be intended to serve as reparation for the act.)

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just ... to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness" 1 Jn. 1:9

How is it that you say we still have a part to play in cleansing ourselves from sin?

"But He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities..." Isa. 53:5.

If Christ has been chastised and wounded for our sins, do we need to wound ourselves again for sin?

joey150:
Jesus assured him..right i agree.. remember i said purgatory is temporal. its not a permanent place, so its quite possible he still passed through that phase.

So people go to purgatory at death, according to you?

joey150:
Besides, its not like there is a whole party or jolly ride in purgatory. We are made to understand it is still not a very pleasant place.

so its like a temporal state holy souls stay for a while for proper cleansing

If it is an unpleasant place, what is a holy soul doing there?

Who does this proper cleansing and with what?

joey150:
well if you read again you would notice where i mentioned a soul has to be perfectly sinless to enter heaven.
if a soul is, it dosent need cleansing so no need for purgatory.

Is the blood of Jesus not enough to make a soul fit for Heaven?

Jesus Christ assured the robber on the cross that he will be in Heaven: was his soul perfectly sinless?

Tell me, what makes a soul perfectly sinless?