₦airaland Forum

PASTORAIO,

First, I'll let the Catholic church define heresy and who a heretic is for us. I'll then proceed to show what the Catholic church did to heretics.

"In the Roman Catholic Church, heresy has a very specific meaning. Anyone who, after receiving baptism, while remaining nominally a Christian, pertinaciously denies or doubts any of the truths that must be believed with divine and Catholic faith is considered a heretic. Accordingly four elements must be verified to constitute formal heresy; previous valid baptism, which need not have been in the Catholic Church; external profession of still being a Christian, otherwise a person becomes an apostate; outright denial or positive doubt regarding a truth that the Catholic Church has actually proposed as revealed by God; and the disbelief must be morally culpable, where a nominal Christian refuses to accept what he knows is a doctrinal imperative." -Catholic dictionary in Catholicculture.org

TheUmbra:
Of course, Sunday fellowship isn't a sin. But failing to observe the Sabbath is. But there's a confusion or mixup which day between Saturday and Sunday constitutes the Sabbath.

The Jews are the custodians of the Law and to them it is Saturday. However, for the gentiles who adopted Christianity, they chose Sunday (which is accepted by GOD as a day set apart for HIM)

Where did GOD indicate that He accepted Sunday as the Sabbath day? I'm particularly interested because GOD blessed Saturday, and I won't like to miss that blessing by keeping a day which He did not bless. Did He bless Sunday too? Or has He transferred the blessing from Saturday to Sunday?

But, analice107, I think you can represent my argument better with the question "Is breaking the Sabbath a sin?" than you do with the question "is Sunday fellowship a sin?"

analice107:
Brother, why are we having this discussion? You can't dissuade me and i can't you, why not we leave this? it's unproductive.

I see. Stay blessed.

analice107,
So do you really want me to start on Paul's argument about the Law in Galatians?

analice107,

The epistle of Paul to the Romans is referred to as his magnum opus in theology. While I agree, I also think that if there is any epistle of Paul which merits to be called his "first runner-up magnum opus", it is his epistle to the Galatians. Contained in this epistle is first class, intricate theology. As such, it is very(very!) easy to misunderstand Paul's arguments in his epistle to the Galatians. Peter, aware of how easy it is to misinterpret Paul's intricate arguments in his epistles, gave us a warning before hand:

"...even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles ... in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do other scriptures, unto their own destruction." 2 Pet. 3:15-16

As an example: "For not the hearers of the law are just before GOD, but the doers of the law shall be justified." Rom. 2:13

How do you deal with that verse?

analice107:
Fine. What then are we doing on Sunday today which is wrong? going to church?

Funny enough, in my Church, everyday is Church. Every day of the year, there's church service in Winners Chapel.
1hr every morning and 1hr evening, everyday Monday through Saturday. The sunday service.

Why are days so important to you guys? Did Jesus die for days or for men?

Do we even understand this kingdom?

I must say that it is with great concern in my heart for the cause of the Truth that I seek to expound on these things, and not for anything else. Worship is the bone of contention in this Great Controversy between good and evil. And there is only one word which perfectly summarizes worship; and that word is "OBEDIENCE". This all about obeying GOD. You must understand, dear, that Satan wants to deceive us into disobeying GOD. "DECEIVE" is the key word.

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life..." Rev 22:14

analice107:
So Jesus is a heretic for not keeping the Sabbath?

No dear! Reason with me. Jesus in fact kept the Sabbath day holy(Luke 4:16). If Jesus did not keep the Sabbath day holy by resting from secular work in it(Exod. 20:8-11), He would have contradicted His words in Matt. 5:19. Allegations of breaking the Sabbath commandment were brought upon Jesus by the Pharisees and chief priests only because Jesus did not keep the Sabbath day as they expected Him to do it. Jesus kept the Sabbath day as it ought to be kept. It was He Who gave the Law on Sinai, and you can be sure He would not break that Law. Resting on the Sabbath day does not preclude showing acts of mercy to others, or relieving them of both physical and spiritual burdens. Jesus understood this, and that was why He healed people on the Sabbath day. The Sabbath day is a day of joy, relief and refreshment, and not of mourning or walking about with long faces. It was "made for man" to enjoy.

analice107,

You will agree with me that the word "therefore" found in Col. 2:16 directs us back to the preceding verses for us to appreciate the context in which v.16 is found.

Verse 14 says that the "handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us" was blotted out and taken out of the way. Which handwriting of ordinances was "against" us?

"And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, ... That Moses commanded the Levites ... saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark...that it may be there for a witness against thee." Deut. 31:24-26.

There you have it! The law written by Moses in a book was kept BY THE ARK as a witness AGAINST us. In this law are found the "sabbaths" which Paul referred to in Col. 2:16. In contrast, the 10 Commandments(which includes the weekly Sabbath commandment) was graven on a stone by GOD Himself. And yes, the tables of stone were kept INSIDE THE ARK(Exod. 25:16).

analice107,

It may surprise you to know that there is not a single verse in the Bible in which GOD calls Sunday His day. Nor can you ever find Jesus calling Sunday His day. But GOD Himself calls the Sabbath day His day:

"If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:" Isa. 58:13

It is now obvious to you that "the Lord's day" found in Revelations is the Sabbath day. John himself was thoroughly familiar with the Scriptures(including Isa. 58:13), and had been with Jesus till He ascended. So you can bet that he knows not a single verse from the Scriptures, nor a single line of Words from the mouth of Jesus that designates Sunday as the Lord's day, just like I know none. Catholics have hijacked the phrase "the Lord's day" and applied it to their day of sun-worship.

PastorAIO:
Some interesting doctrines here.

So Peter directly had the Truth of the gospel, and indirectly so did the other disciples.

Then which one did st Paul have? The padlock?

And what exactly was that truth? That Jesus would die? Peter certainly didn't act like he was aware of that.

Please what would you say was the context of Matt 16. If you were to give it a title, what would you call it?

Please tell me more about this established word.

You want to troll? I can't indulge you. I've successfully shattered your claims that Jesus might have given men the authority to change GOD's commandments(Matt. 5:19).

PastorAIO:
Sir, could you furnish us with any facts about the blood that was shed on account of the seventh day?

Have you heard about the Sabbath-keeping Christians, including the Waldensians who were considered heretics, and how much the Catholic church persecuted and killed them? The Catholic church does not deny it:

"The church may by divine right confiscate property of heretics, imprison their person, and condemn them to flames. In our age, the right to inflict the severest penalties, even death, belongs to the church. There is no graver offense than heresy, therefore it must be rooted out." Public Ecclesiatical, Vol. 2, p.142.

"A heretic merits the pains of fire....By the Gospel, the canons, the civil law, and customs, heretics must be burned." The American Textbook of Popery, p.164(quoting from the "Directory of Inquisitors" ) and also Pope Marcellus' Decrees, Corpus Juris Canonici, part 2, chap. 18.

PastorAIO:
Perhaps because Jesus told them that anything the bound on earth would be bound in heaven and anything they loosed on earth would be loosed in heaven.

In Matt. 16:19, Jesus(addressing Peter directly and the other disciples indirectly) talked about giving Peter the "keys" to the Kingdom of Heaven. Do you know what those keys mean? And so do you know what Jesus means when He says "bind" and "loose"? The keys to the Kingdom of Heaven is the truth of the gospel. The authority to bind and loose does not imply the authority to change GOD's commandments, since Jesus expressly forbids that in Matt. 5:19. The context of Matt. 18:18 reveals that "binding" and "loosing" has something to do with the "established Word"(v.17) spoken by the body of believers and "heard" by people. One can, by depending on whether he hears that Word, be granted(loosed) or denied(bound) opportunity to enter Heaven.

Modified.

Idango:
Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight

1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come

You can check out the above 2 scriptures, the disciples were meeting on the first day of the week which is sunday.

The meeting in Acts 20:7 occurred on a Saturday evening and extended into the midnight(hence "Paul was ready to depart on the morrow". The Jewish day begins at sunset(Gen. 1:5) and so the first day of the week begins with the sunset of the seventh day.

In 1 Cor. 16:2 Paul instructs the Corinthian believers to make ready their donations so he can pick them quickly when he visits them. Read more below:

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/37/is-sunday-really-sacred

People are fast forgetting that GOD HALLOWED AND BLESSED the 7th day. Has GOD removed the solemnity and blessing, or transferred it to another day? Not according to the Bible. Someone, however, claims to have done the transfer:

Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (1957), p. 50:
Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."

Martin J. Scott, Things Catholics Are Asked About (1927),p. 136:
"Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday .... Now the Church ... instituted, by God's authority, Sunday as the day of worship. This same Church, by the same divine authority, taught the doctrine of Purgatory long before the Bible was made. We have, therefore, the same authority for Purgatory as we have for Sunday."

There is no gainsaying the fact that a lot of controversy surrounds the seventh day, which is the Sabbath of GOD as revealed in the Bible. Churches have disintegrated, people have been persecuted, and much blood has been shed all because of this seventh day. Even today, debates still linger on the relevance of the seventh day in Christianity, and the debates will keep escalating till it climaxes in the great divide that will separate the two large classes of people that will be on earth just before the return of Christ.

However, while the seventh day has been and is still the topic of hot debates, there are at least 7 facts about the seventh day that cannot be refuted. Please spare some kilobytes of data and click on the link below to see them:

www.preparingforeternity.com/7sabfact.htm

cc: analice107

MsNgo40:
My brother,
So true...and I hope you continue in the faith....courageously.
Not stalking you....just encouraging you to be a soldier of God's truth....regardless

Thank you so much. I am encouraged by your words. May GOD continue to bless you.

akpamuomenka:
What is faith?.

Good question!

It's a pity that your parents were misled by false teachers who deceive people for selfish gains. The Bible warned us against them:

"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not." 2 Pet. 2:1-3

The solution now is not distance yourself from GOD, as that would mean giving oneself totally into the hands of Satan the archdeceiver. Counsels that seek to separate married people certainly are not from GOD, who hates divorce so much(Matt. 5:32; 19:9). GOD can heal broken relationships, and by trusting in His Word alone, you will never be misled/deceived.

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." - 2 Pet. 3:9

obinna58:
Thought the Bible authors were writing as directed by God, what's the need of ancient discovery or cosmology

U are the ignorant one

Men were inspired by GOD to write the Books of the Bible. Any problem with that?

Read the article in that link and be delivered from your ignorance.

Well, it appears that the fact that the Bible distinguished the "legs" used for creeping and the "legs" used for hopping was misunderstood. That is made clear in the short piece below:

https://answersingenesis.org/bible-characters/moses/two-missing-legs/

Is this ignorant post from somebody who doesn't even know that Noah took 7 pairs of the clean animals into the ark worth reading?

Below is an excellent article that dismantles all these myopic claims about the Bible teaching a flat earth:

https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/earth/does-bible-teach-earth-flat/

Read and be enlightened and stop wallowing in ignorance, OP.

AgentOfAllah,

My point: Jeans mass =Kρ^–1/2T^3/2. This mass must be overcome for the gas cloud to collapse. This can be achieved either by assuming that the gas cloud was massive enough, and thus density will increase, reducing Jeans mass. Or you can claim that energy was somehow radiated from the interior of the gas cloud, reducing pressure and thus enabling gravity to cause collapse. Or you can even invent dark matter to compress the gas cloud and induce collapse. I guess the theory is very plastic.

I disagree with your claim that the high density of early gas clouds would "facilitate" H₂ formation. Hydrogen formation before the appearance of the Population III stars ended even before primordial nucleosynthesis(3-20 mins after BB), and so no other process was in place for production of Hydrogen.

AgentOfAllah,

I noted the array of different opinions available on the time it took the first stars to appear after the big bang. The article I provided gave it as 1 billion years. Other sources say 200 million years, while other sources say 300-500 million years. That's a lot of confusion there.

Once any hypothesized cloud of hydrogen condenses to a certain size it comes into hydrodynamic equilibrium i.e. the outward force on the cloud caused by the accumulated pressure due to the heating of the compressed cloud equals the inward force on the cloud due to gravity. This is the Jeans limit. At this point no further contraction can occur, unless energy is radiated from the cloud cooling it, and this may take an indefinite amount of time.

Density due to what exactly facilitated the formation of H₂? Remember density=mass/vol. Remember too that primordial nucleosynthesis ended 10-20 mins after BB.

PastorAIO:
Without evidence to support the claim I will do more than call it propaganda, I will dismiss it as a baseless delusion.


No, it is not common knowledge that Europe is in the popes grip. That is not how you support a claim, you don't just say it is common knowledge, you provide evidence.

I notice that you haven't actually addressed any of the points I made to counter your claims.

What does the bible say about the anti Christ? That his power would wane towards the 18th century? How does anything you are saying fit into the history of the Catholic Church?

You made no points to counter my claim. You only cited the struggle between Philip IV and Boniface VIII. The article in the OP establishes the rise of the Papacy to power from the time of Constantine.

Click on the link I provided on the first page of this thread. Only quote me after you must have read the article. The answers to your questions are in that article.

PastorAIO:
So therefore the pope was not and has never been as all powerful as you claim it to be. Furthermore the papacy held sway over Western Europe. Where does the Greek Orthodox or Russian orthodox churches fit into your scheme? Where does Islam which ruled over the Spainish peninsula fit in? Abi Spain is no longer a part of Europe?

I'll leave aside the fact that your belief is so obviously Eurocentric.

And finally the st Bartholomew's day massacre had nothing to do with the papacy even though it was part of a catholic vs Protestant conflict. The order was given by queen Catherine di Medici.

If I tell you that the Papacy infact established Islam for their own selfish reasons, and even controls Islam today, you'd probably dismiss it as propaganda. But events in the near future will reveal the Papacy's true character.

It is common knowledge that Europe was in the Pope's grip, until late 18th century. Europe, anyway, is central to Biblical Prophecy.

AgentOfAllah,

[url=creation.mobi/stars-dont-form-naturally]Here is an article[/url] that establishes the impossibility of your theory to account for the present day universe without evoking a god of the gaps. What's your opinion on that fact that cooling clouds of molecular hydrogen(maybe via infrared radiation) alone would have taken a very long time to form the Population III stars, as expressed in the article?

Isn't it also interesting that gas clouds in the act of collapsing have never been observed in galaxies, as the article points out?

PastorAIO:
Pope wey King of France kidnap am so that he can keep a close eye on am.




http://constructionlitmag.com/culture/philip-iv-takes-down-the-church/

King Philip IV dealt with the Pope anyhow anyhow and the pope couldn't do nada.

The same papacy that was also attacked and imprison in 1527 by the forces of Charles V of HRE.

It's true that Philip IV captured and later released Boniface VIII, and that the grip of the Papacy on Europe began to wane towards the 16th century, but it removes nothing from the fact that from the 6th century to late 18th is recognized as a period of papal domination of Europe, when princes and monarchs conformed to the dictates of the Pope. The Pope still directly or indirectly influenced monarchs to do his will, even in the 16th century in which the armies of Charles V sacked Rome. A testimony to that is the Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Day.

AgentOfAllah,

While you referred to Prof. Harwit's quote as "severely outdated", you did not show me the "up-to-date" view on his quote. The link you gave contains nothing in it.

Well, a more recent statement has it that "...astronomers have never witnessed [even]a high-mass star being born, and hotly debate how they form.” Eric Hand, “Mega-Array Reveals Birthplace of Giant Stars,”Nature , Vol 492, 20/27 December 2012, p. 320

Space.com says that scientists "aren't exactly sure when and how the first stars formed." Note the "when".

I also have a question for you: according to your theory, how cold did the environment get for gravity to overcome pressure? For two gaseous atoms rushing out from a common centre, the distance between them increases with each kilometer they move from the centre. F=Gm1m2/r² decreases then, as the gaseous atoms rush out. What changed the direction of the atoms and brought them together?

btoks:
Conveniently ignored the preceeding verse which referred to tradition!

v14 - But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it

Sacred tradition and scripture. you'll find no sola scriptura in the bible.
Also Paul did not list what books constituted scripture, this would come 300years later. In any case, Paul could only have been referring to the OT(Jews hadn't even closed the canon at that point) as profitable/ useful not all sufficient.

Yes, Peter and Paul I know. James, John and the gospel writers I know. But who is that Latin-speaking man that moulds images, asking me to bow to them? Who is that Man of Sin(2 Thess. 2) that presumes to teach me things that directly oppose the word of GOD?(Isa. 8:20).

Sacred tradition, if anything like that is, must emphasize the supreme authority of the Scriptures, and can never contradict the Scriptures.