hahn:


You didn't answer the other part of my comment. The coming of Jesus is really a waste of resources if you consider it sincerely.

Jesus came, died, rose up from dead instead of remaining dead and there is still suffering in the world and people still go to hell for their sins.

In the spirit of being sincere, tell me, what if someone doesn't want the remedy offered in Jesus Christ? Should GOD force it on such a person? You, will you say GOD is fair if He does that? By the way, Jesus' rising from the dead is very consistent with the entire Bible.

Just as you will go to the muslim hell for not acknowledging that Mohammed is Allah's prophet and for believing in Jesus according to the muslims.

I guess it is the battle of imaginary friends. May the best nutcase win

If the Bible is true, then I know that no other hell exists other than the one GOD is going to unleash on evildoers at the end.

hahn:


and did nothing to stop it. So that means god also knew the humans it would create would disobey it and it would burn billions of humans for eternity



A grand finale that is more fantasy than reality

No bro. He did something. He provided Jesus Christ. Sadly many will be destroyed because they rejected Jesus Christ. By the way no one will burn for eternity.

Well, we will see whether it is fantasy or reality.

johnydon22:
Well, he created satan, are you surprised?

Avengers 4 comes to mind. May 19 2019. You watched infinity war right?

The problem here is that true stories also have climactic endings.

johnydon22:
God is supposes to, by definition, be omniscient



At the end. Has a striking resemblance to our story telling method, there is always a grand finale awfully convenient. Don't you think?

Don't you think it's because GOD is omniscient that He had Satan all figured out, even expecting all of his moves?

As for me, the grand finale of this great drama is more than convenient. It is truly comforting to know that evil and injustice will one day come to and end.

frank317:


Satan is Gods creation for god sake. So all these was just to prove a point to Satan? Smh

More like to remove whatever point Satan could have raised. They were still willfully obeying GOD until Satan "deceived" Eve. You see, the whole thing since Satan's rebellion has been to prove to the whole of creation why rebellion should not exist, and why it is just for GOD to annihilate rebellion and those who practise it, which is what GOD will do in the end.

frank317:


To test their willful obedience to Gods commandment? Was this sort of an experiment for God? Adam and eve were God's test rats... He he

Now that he has seen the result, I hope he us happy.

Just put in little more effort and read the next sentence after the one talking about testing their willful obedience. As you read it, think upon it.

Although this might appeal to those who mock, it hopelessly fails to make meaning to any person with basic Bible knowledge, as this piece reveals deep ignorance of Bible teachings.

The supposed argument between Jesus and the Father on whether the tree should be there is fictitious because Jesus and His Father "are one" both in counsel and every other thing.(Jn. 10:30). By the way Bible students know that the tree was put there in the garden to serve as a test of their willful obedience to the commandments of GOD. If there was no avenue through which they could sin, Satan would have pointed that as an objection when God contrasts man's obedience with his own disobedience.

The notion that the GODhead, and Jesus as the sacrificial Lamb, were caught unawares at the fall of man is laughable. Long before man was created, provision for his redemption had been made should he fall, with Jesus willfully opting to be the sacrifice. Which is why Jesus is said to be "slain from the foundation of the world" Rev 13:8

LordReed:


I answered it very well. I asked you to list it out since you happen to know it more than the Bible.



Look if you have problem take it up with your fairytale. I am not confused about what your fairytale book says since I don't believe it, you should find a way of reconciling what you believe with what it says. I am only pointing out what it says to you. It says there was no law until Moses. You say there is, I ask you to list the law or where it was given before Moses and you can't. The problem is yours to del with.

The commandments, statutes and laws include the 10 Commandments. What is your rebuttal?

Where did the Bible say that "there was no law until Moses"? Note that the law could have descended from Adam till Moses, albeit maybe only orally.

I know that the 10 Commandments(the law) were known before Moses, because people committed sin before Moses, and in doing so they were "transgressing the law". 1 Jn. 3:4

LordReed:


According to your fairytale, death is a being so when I say he created death I meant the concept of it but it is evident by your fairytale book that he created death as a being of some sort. As far we know as you yourself have conjectured such beings were created by God before men.

If you refer to those passages in which the Bible used personification on death, or in Revelations where death is depicted as riding a horse, then your argument fails because they are all either figurative or are used to code messages, or to make the situation being described more vivid. I only said that angels were created before men. Death is not an angel.

nwabekeyi:
stop being ignorant, the science of evolution (carbon dating and radioactive dating) and telecommunications both use the same basic principle of radiation physics. accepting one and refusing the other is cherry picking and living a life of denial.

LOL. Let me break it down further to the level you will understand.

If you tell me that the electromagnetic spectrum consists of different radiations with different wavelengths and frequencies, I can repeat whatever experiment you did to arrive at that conclusion, and observe what you observed, so that I can see whether what you said is true.

But if you tell me that a particle evolved through billions of years to become a particle physicist, how can I confirm that it truly happened? Even you telling me, did you observe it?

LordReed:
It was the first time they were hearing of the concept as recorded by the fairytale book. You cannot show anywhere before this where a sabbath practice is mentioned. Joseph was a in Egypt and had opportunity to show of his devoutness by practicing sabbath yet no record. Not one of the Patriarchs has a record of practicing sabbath, I mean something so central to the Hebrew belief was not recorded once in Genesis? Are you for real?

You have not answered one question which I asked before: what "commandments, statutes and laws" was God talking about in Gen. 26:5?

The knockout blow to your argument is in 1 Jn. 3:4. Sin is defined there as the transgression of the law. It doesn't say "sin for those after Exodus 20 is the transgression of the law." It simply says sin, which means anywhere, anytime. It even says explicitly that "whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the Law". Therefore the Law has always been in existence.

LordReed:


Technically speaking yes. Just as you do not need to create darkness, just take away light. If you are unable to take away light then you can never have darkness. As soon as God created a mortal universe he inevitably created mortality. Taking it further back, as soon as God decided that his plan for redemption will involve sacrifice then he created death.

Your analogy fails as the absence of created living beings doesn't necessarily mean presence of death(e.g. before the beings were created).

Death is not a mental construct but the uncoupling of a living being. If a thing is said to be created, then it is in existence. But how can you say that death was part of what God created when from time immemorial until the fall, death did not exist and could not be attested to by anything?

What if man never sinned? In the sinless state of creation, could anyone point to where the "created" death is, regardless of God's decision about redemption?

LordReed:


This is my "proof" from your fairytale book.

DoctorAlien:


That GOD is able to bring destruction and disaster(which can be seen as undoing what he did in creating) on His creation does not mean that GOD "created" death when He was in the work of creation.

If I am able to destroy something which I created, does it mean that when I created that thing, I also created the destruction of that thing?

LordReed:


I also conjecture that death is part of God's creation therefore it was created before the creation week.

LOL. Where is your proof that "death" is part of God's creation?

LordReed:


There's nothing in those chapters that say angels were created before men. You just conjectured it same way I am conjecturing about death.

Genesis tells us that the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were created in 6 days, and that God ceased from His work of creation. Ezek. 28:13 affirms that satan(an angel) was created. But we find no mention of God creating angels during the creation week. Therefore angels were created before the creation week.

LordReed:
This is the KJV:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Until the law there was still sin so I don't know where you are getting the idea that because there was sin it implied law.

It says even those who did not disobey any written command were still subject to death through sin.

Which commandment did Satan break? Can you list it here?

What you're saying in essence is "until the law, there was still transgression of the law" (1 Jn. 3:4). But how could they be guilty if they had no idea of this law? How could God accuse Israel of breaking the Sabbath in Exod. 16 when He was yet to give the law in Exod. 20? What happened on Sinai was simply God (re)introducing a Law which had nearly been lost sight of.

LordReed:


Death was existing before God created man.

Where did you see that in the Bible?
I have proof in the Bible that angels were created before man was created, in Isa. 14 and Ezek. 28.

Where is your proof that death was existing before God created man? Who died before God created man?

LordReed:


I'll let your fairytale answer you:

Romans 5
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

The fact that sin is not imputed without a law should tell you that Adam could not be said to have "sinned" if "THE LAW" was not existing then, even if not recorded in Genesis, because "sin" by definition is the transgression "THE LAW"(1 Jn. 3:4)
Even Satan could not be said to have sinned in heaven without the law. You ask which command Adam broke. I say the first. He did not put God first, else he would choose to obey God over whatever suggests otherwise.

By the way, I trust the KJV rendering of Rom. 5:14 more than the version you quoted.

LordReed:

On which day did God create the angels?

Angels were existing in heaven before God created man.

LordReed:
[s]LoL. You are just making an assertion with nothing to back it up except a ridiculous fairytale and even the fairytale fails to document this so called unbroken count.

Even your fairytale says there was no law given before Moses. Melchizedek was a priest of God but under no written commandment. If there was any written rules then why were they not clearly stated throughout the whole of Genesis except circumcision?

I can understand that you are confused by this fairytale since was written by unsophisticated men looking to gain control over equally ignorant people like them. In this day and age any thinking person should be able to clearly see the loopholes in this fairytale.[/s]

When the Bible says that sin is the transgression of the law(1 Jn. 3:4), which Law was it talking about? Did that Law contain the Sabbath commandment? If yes, did breaking the Sabbath not constitute sin for people before Exodus?

LordReed:


Deceived by what? Your fairytale book?

Isaiah 45:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

That is from your fairytale book, God the creator of all things, including evil.

That GOD is able to bring destruction and disaster(which can be seen as undoing what he did in creating) on evil people does not mean that GOD "created" death. In the Genesis account of creation, on which day did GOD create death?

LordReed:


Really?



Again I ask you which day of the week is the seventh?



You can list them out if you know them.

Did Adam and Eve observe a Sabbath? Did Enoch observe a Sabbath? Did Noah observe a Sabbath? Show me where any of these people were recorded as observing Sabbath.

LOL. Me and my family can wake up tomorrow and decide that Wednesday is the first day of the week for us. Still, it doesn't mean that the Jews will not keep the Sabbath tomorrow. Think man. So, your Canada case is irrelevant. Even so, the order of counting days in sevens from creation has not been lost. The point is that sabbathkeepers have not missed their count once.

You should also ask Adam and Eve kept the other commandments in the Law. To deny that people before Exodus kept the Sabbath just because you don't see God anywhere in Genesis "commanding" them to keep it, is to also say that they did not obey the commandments in the law which God did not "command" in Genesis.

LordReed:


LoL. This is rich. So how did you know the assumptions if it is inside them? You can read minds now right? LMFAO!

As I said, there are creationists who practise science too, and who read these journals you talk about, and have very good knowledge of the any branch of science you can think of. I'm talking of PhD scientists and even professors from schools like Harvard. They are at creation.com

I know it comes as a shock to you that not every scientist believes in billions of years, but it is true!

LordReed:


According to your fairytale God created death therefore he is ultimately responsible. I don't even want to go there because if we reason that way then even the deaths attributed to Satan are still all God's fault because he created everything according to your fairytale.

Let's just stick with the deaths attributed to Satan and God's "direct" action.

Where did the Bible say that God created death?

Death can be seen as the undoing of what did in creating.

So where did the Bible say GOD created death?

LOL, knowing who Satan is, and that he likes to blame others deceitfully for what he has done, are you sure you're not being deceived already into thinking that he is not really responsible for death on earth?

LordReed:


LoL. You just made some bogus claims about assumptions and are now saying the scientists would say them. No scientist worth his salt will omit the assumptions that are being made in any scientific study, especially if he wants that study to be peer reviewed. If you cannot categorically state the assumptions then you are just making it up.

They know these assumptions within themselves, probably. But they will not state it to laymen! That is why you think that they got it all figured out.

Just visit creation.com man.

LordReed:

Which day is the seventh day?

It is recorded when God gave Abraham the order to circumcise his people. Where is the record of a command for Sabbath to Abraham? Where is the record of an observance of Sabbath by Abraham or Isaac or Jacob? Or he didn't teach them as you quoted? Did Noah observe Sabbath? Did Enoch observe Sabbath? The first mention of Sabbath in the Bible is in Exodus so your idea that Abraham observed a Sabbath is not supported by your own fairytale Bible. Not even Job observed a Sabbath.

Saturday is the seventh day.

LOL. Answer my question: what commandments, statutes and laws was God talking about in Gen. 26:5?

LOL.

Are you sure you have counted all the people Satan killed in the Bible? Who deceived man into sin, and thus brought death in to the world? When Satan instigate people to do bad things(such as wars) and to kill others in the process, is Satan not responsible for such deaths?

Also, when Satan deceives people to commit grievous crimes, such that God metes out judgment on them in form of death, can you hold GOD responsible? Is Satan not responsible for such deaths?

In summary, Satan is the origin of death!

LordReed:


What are the assumptions?

Educate yourself man. I know these evolutionist scientists are not willing to tell you the unprovable assumptions they make in dating fossils to millions of years, so that they will look convincing to you. But you can check creation.com

Use the site's search engine and type in keywords relating to radiometric dating and your eyes will be opened.

LordReed:


I don't think you know what moon phases mean. Google it before you reply.



You trying to be disingenuous? You've not even settled on which day is the seventh day and you are asking for translations.



I have and there is none. If you know of any post it here.

In the western culture there are 4 moon phases, each about 7.4 days in length. But the length can vary too. So you can't tell me that counting days in sevens were invented back then just to track moon phases.

A quick check on the names of the seventh day in other languages reveals that it translates to sabbath. Therefore it indicates a system of counting days in sevens, with the seventh being the rest day.

What do you think the Bible means when it says that Abraham kept ALL of God's commandments, in Gen. 26:5 when it says Abraham kept God's "commandments, statutes and laws"? Or is the Sabbath not part of God's Law?

LordReed:


LoL. SMH. So when they date a human fossil to 177,000 years ago some scientists will say it supports their worldview of a 6000 year old earth? LMFAO!

Do they tell you the assumptions they make in dating those fossils to such ages?

LordReed:


You are very wrong. The seven day week has nothing to do with this fairytale creation story. It was a way to track the moon phases.

Besides who told you that this Sabbath tradition was recognised anywhere outside of Israel after the laws of Moses? Show me one place where Abraham, Isaac or Jacob practiced a Sabbath.

LOL. Nice try. The moon revolves around the earth once every 28 days or so, not once every seven days. If they used weeks to track moon phases, then they could have easily made a week to contain 28 days, since that is the time it takes the moon to complete one cycle. Nothing in this observable universe naturally leads us to count days in sevens. Only the initiative of GOD could have introduced that.

Do well to check the name of the seventh day in other languages. You will notice that they all translate into the word "Sabbath" which means rest.

As for proof that Abraham kept the Sabbath, check the Bible well.

nwabekeyi:
there

So where in this verse you posted does it say that "the sun revolves around the earth"?