₦airaland Forum

MsNgo40:
You are welcome! I am tremendously blessed. Discernment, discernment, and more discernment.....
God knows how to rescue out of the pit......
That's all I can say.
Please keep me lifted....

I'm so happy this is your testimony. May it continue to be so. Amen. Jesus will preserve us all whole unto the Day of His appearance.

Do you know about this app "EGW Writings"?

MsNgo40:
J.N. Andrews....one of the pioneers....
Blessed writing....beautifully written.

Thanks a lot. How are you doing?

SIXTH REASON. Paul commanded the church at Corinth to take up a public collection on the first day of the week; therefore it follows that this must have been a day of public worship, and consequently is the Christian Sabbath. 1 Corinthians 16:2.

We answer, It is a remarkable fact that Paul enjoins exactly the reverse of a public collection. He does not say, Place your alms in the public treasury on the first day of the week; but he says, “Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store.”
J. W. Morton, in his “Vindication of the True Sabbath,” pp.51,52, says:-
“The apostle simply orders that each one of the Corinthian brethren should lay up at home some portion of his weekly gains on the first day of the week. The whole question turns upon the meaning of the expression, ‘by him;’ and I marvel greatly how you can imagine that it means ‘in the collection - box of the congregation.’ Greenfield, in his Lexicon, translates the Greek term, ‘by one’s self, i.e., at home.’ Two Latin versions, the Vulgate and that of Castellio, render it, ‘apud se,’ with one’s self, at home. Three French translations, those of Martin, Osterwald, and De Sacy, ‘chez soi,’ at his own house, at home. The German of Luther, ‘bei sich selbst,’ by himself, at home. The Dutch, ‘by hemselven,’ same as the German. The Italian of Diodati, ‘appresso di se,’ in his own presence, at home. The Spanish of Felipe Scio, ‘en su casa,’ in his own house. The Portuguese of Ferreira, ‘para isso,’ with himself. The Swedish, ‘noer sig self,’ near himself. I know not how much this list of authorities might be swelled; for I have not examined one translation that differs from those quoted above.”
The text, therefore, does not prove that the Corinthian church was assembled for public worship on that day; but, on the contrary, it does prove that each must be at his own home where he could examine his worldly affairs, and lay by himself in store as God had prospered him. If each one should thus, from week to week, collect his earnings, when the apostle should come their bounty would be ready, and each would be able to present to him what he had gathered. So that, if the first - day Sabbath has no better foundation than the inference drawn from this text, it truly rests upon sliding sand.

SEVENTH REASON. John was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, which was the first day of the week. Revelation 1:10.

This is the kind of reasoning which the advocates of Sunday are invariably obliged to adopt. But we ask, What right have they to assume the very point which they ought to prove? This text, it is true, furnishes direct proof that there is a day in the gospel dispensation which the Lord claims as his; but is there one text in the Bible which testifies that the first day of the week is the Lord’s day? There is not one. Has God ever claimed that day as his? Never. Has God ever claimed any day as his, and reserved it to himself? He has. “And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it; because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.” Genesis 2:3. “To - morrow is the rest of the holy Sabbath unto the Lord.” Exodus 16:23. “The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God.” Exodus 20:10. “If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day,” etc. Isaiah 58:13. “Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.” Mark 2:28.
Then the seventh day is the day which God reserved to himself when he gave to man the other six; and this day he calls his holy day. This is the day which the New Testament declares the Son of man to be Lord of.
Is there one testimony in the Scriptures that the Lord of the Sabbath has put away his holy day and chosen another? Not one. Then that day which the Bible designates as the Lord’s day is none other than the Sabbath of the fourth commandment.

THIRD REASON. After eight days, Jesus met with his disciples again. John 20:26. This must have been the first day of the week, which is thereby proved to be the Christian Sabbath.

Were it certain that this occurred on the first day of the week, it would not furnish a single particle of proof that that day had become the Sabbath of the Lord. But who can be certain that “after eight days” means just a week? It would be nearer a literal construction of the language to conclude that this was upon the ninth day. As an illustration, read Matthew 17:1: “And after six days, Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John,” etc. Now turn to Luke 9:28: “And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter, and John, and James,” etc. Then, “after six days” is about eight days in this instance. But if “after eight days” means just a week, how does this prove that Sunday has taken the place of the Lord’s Sabbath? Rather, how does it prove that Sunday has become the Christian Sabbath, when there is not a particle of evidence that either Christ or his apostles ever rested on that day? There is no such term as Christian Sabbath found in the Bible. The only weekly Sabbath named in the Bible is called the Sabbath of the Lord.
Was the act of Christ in appearing to his disciples sufficient to constitute the day on which it occurred the Sabbath? If so, why did he next select a fishing day as the time to manifest himself to them John 21. If it is not sufficient, then the Sunday on which he was first seen of them, the fishing day on which they next saw him, and the Thursday on which he was last seen of them, may not be Sabbaths. It was not very remarkable that Christ should find his disciples together, inasmuch as they had one common abode. Acts 1:13.

FOURTH REASON. The Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples on the day of Pentecost, which was the first day of the week. Therefore, the first day of the week should be observed instead of the Sabbath of the Lord. Acts 2:1, 2.

Admitting that the day of Pentecost occurred upon the first day of the week, it remains to be proved that that day thereby became the Sabbath. But that it was the feast of Pentecost, and not the first day of the week, that God designed to honor, the following facts demonstrate:-
1. While the day of Pentecost is distinctly named, the day of the week on which it occurred is passed in silence.
2. The disciples had been engaged in earnest prayer for the space of ten days; for the day of Pentecost was fifty days from the resurrection of Christ, and forty of those days he spent with his disciples. Acts 1. Forty days from his resurrection would expire on Thursday, the day of his ascension. A period of ten days after his ascension on Thursday would include two first - days, the last of which would be the day of Pentecost. If the design of God had been to honor the first day of the week, why did not the Holy Ghost descend on the first of those first - days? Why must the day of Pentecost come before the Holy Ghost could descend? This answer is obvious: It was not the design of Heaven to honor the first day of the week, but to mark the antitype of the feast of Pentecost. Hence the first day of the week is passed in silence.
The slaying of the paschal lamb on the fourteenth day of the first month had met its antitype in the death of the Lamb of God on that day. Exodus 12; John 19; 1 Corinthians 5:7. The offering of the first - fruits on the sixteenth day of the first month had met its antitype in the resurrection of our Lord on that day, the first - fruits of them that slept. Leviticus 23; 1 Corinthians 15:20 - 23. It remained that the day of Pentecost, fifty days later, should also meet its antitype. Leviticus 23:15 - 21. The fulfillment of that type is what the pen of inspiration has recorded in Acts 2:1, 2. God has spoken nothing in this place respecting a change of his Sabbath. Yet grave men, calling themselves Doctors of Divinity, consider this text one of their strongest testimonies for their so - called Christian Sabbath. They might be profited by this advice of the wise man: “Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” Proverbs 30:6.

FIFTH REASON. Paul once broke bread upon the first day of the week at Troas. Hence this day was observed as the Christian Sabbath. Acts 20:7.

We answer that at one period the apostolic church at Jerusalem broke bread every day. Acts 2:42 - 46. If a single instance of breaking bread at Troas upon the first day of the week was quite sufficient to constitute it the Sabbath, would not the continued practice of the apostolic church at Jerusalem in breaking bread every day be amply sufficient to make every day a Sabbath? Moreover, as the act of the great Head of the church in breaking bread must be quite as important as that of his servant Paul, must not the day of the crucifixion be pre - eminently the Christian Sabbath, as Christ instituted and performed this ordinance on the evening with which that day commenced1 1 Corinthians 11:23 - 26.
But on what day of the week did this act of Paul’s occur? For, if it is of sufficient importance to make the day of its occurrence the future Sabbath of the church, the day is worth determining. The act of breaking bread was after midnight; for Paul preached to the disciples until midnight, then healed Eutychus, and after this attended to breaking bread. Acts 20:7 - 11. If, as time is reckoned at the present day, the first day of the week terminated at midnight, then Paul’s act of breaking bread was performed upon the second day of the week, or Monday, which should henceforth be regarded as the Christian Sabbath, if breaking bread on a day makes it a Sabbath.
But, if the Bible method of commencing the day, viz., from sunset, was followed, it would appear that the disciples came together at the close of the Sabbath for an evening meeting, as the apostle was to depart in the morning. If it was not an evening meeting, why did they have many lights there? Paul preached unto them until midnight, and then broke bread with the disciples early in the morning of the first day of the week. Did this act constitute that day the Sabbath? If so, then why did Paul, as soon as it was light, start on his long journey to Jerusalem? If Paul believed that Sunday was the Christian Sabbath, why did he thus openly violate it? If he did not believe it had become the Sabbath, why should you? And why do you grasp, as evidence that the Sabbath has been changed, a single instance in which an evening meeting was held on Sunday, while you overlook the fact that it was the custom of this same apostle to preach every Sabbath, not only to the Jews, but also to the Gentiles? Acts 13:14, 42, 44; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4.
Paul broke bread on the first day of the week, and then immediately started on his long journey to Jerusalem. So that this, the strongest argument for the first day of the week, furnishes direct proof that Sunday is not the Sabbath.

FIRST REASON. Redemption is greater than creation; therefore we ought to keep the day of Christ’s resurrection, instead of the ancient Sabbath of the Lord.

Where has God said this? Sunday - keepers are compelled to admit that he never did say it. What right, then, has any man to make such an assertion, and then to base the change of the Sabbath upon it? But suppose that redemption is greater than creation who knows that we ought to keep the first day of the week on that account? God never required men to keep any day as a memorial of redemption. But if it were a duty to observe one day of the week for this reason, most certainly the crucifixion day presents the strongest claims. It is not said that we have redemption through Christ’s resurrection; but it is said that we have redemption through the shedding of his blood. “And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof; for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood, out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.” Revelation 5:9. “In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace.” Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14; Hebrews 9:12, 15.
Then redemption is through the death of the Lord Jesus; consequently the day on which he shed his precious blood to redeem us, and said, “It is finished,” John 19:30, is the day that should be kept as a memorial of redemption, if any should be observed for that purpose.
Nor can it be urged that the resurrection day is the most remarkable day in the history of redemption. It needs but a word to prove that, in this respect, it is far exceeded by the day of the crucifixion. Which is the more remarkable event, the act of Jehovah in giving his beloved and only Son to die for a race of rebels, or the act of the Father in raising that beloved Son from the dead? There is only one answer that can be given: It was not remarkable that God should raise his Son from the dead; but the act of the Father in giving his Son to die for sinners was a spectacle of redeeming love on which the universe might gaze, and adore the wondrous love of God to all eternity. Who can wonder that the sun was vailed in darkness, and that all nature trembled at the sight! The crucifixion day, therefore, has far greater claims than the day of the resurrection. God has not enjoined the observance of either; and is it not a fearful act to make void the commandments of God by that wisdom which is folly in his sight 1 Corinthians 1:19, 20.
But if we would commemorate redemption, there is no necessity of robbing the Lord’s rest - day of its holiness in order to do it. When truth takes from us our errors, it always has something better to take their place. So the false memorial of redemption being taken out of the way, the word presents in its stead those which are true. God has provided us with memorials, bearing his own signature; and these we may observe with the blessing of Heaven. Would you commemorate the death of our Lord? You need not keep the day of his crucifixion. The Bible tells you how to do it.
“For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread; and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat; this is my body, which is broken for you; this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: This do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord’s death till he come.” 1 Corinthians 11:23 - 26.
Would you commemorate the burial and resurrection of the Saviour? You need not keep the first day of the week. The Lord ordained a very different and far more appropriate memorial. “Know ye not that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death; that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.” Romans 6:3 - 5. “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.” Colossians 2:12.
It is true that the professed church have changed this ordinance to sprinkling, so that this divine memorial of the Lord’s resurrection is destroyed. And that they may add sin to sin, they lay hold of the Lord’s Sabbath and change it to the first day of the week, thus destroying the sacred memorial of the Creator’s rest, that they may have a memorial of Christ’s resurrection! “The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.” When will the professed church cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? Not until the “inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.” Isaiah 24:5, 6.

SECOND REASON. The disciples met on the day of our Lord’s resurrection to commemorate that event, and the Saviour sanctioned this meeting by uniting with them. John 20:19.
If every word of this were truth, it would not prove that the Sabbath of the Lord has been changed. But to show the utter absurdity of this inference, listen to a few facts. The disciples did not then believe that their Lord had been raised from the dead, but were assembled for the purpose of eating a common meal, and to seclude themselves from the Jews. The words of Mark and of John make this clear: “He appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. And they went and told it unto the residue; neither believed they them. Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.” Mark 16:12 - 14. John says: “Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.” John 20:19.
It is a fact, therefore, that the disciples were not commemorating the resurrection of the Saviour; it is equally evident that they had not the slightest idea of a change of the Sabbath. At the burial of the Saviour, the women who had followed him to the tomb returned and prepared spices and ointments to embalm him; the Sabbath drew on; they rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment; and when the Sabbath was past, they came to the sepulcher upon the first day of the week to embalm their Lord. Luke 23:55, 56; 24:1. They kept the Sabbath, according to the commandment, and resumed their labor on the first day of the week.

BY J. N. ANDREWS.

“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” 2 Timothy 3:16, 17.

IN this text we are assured that every word of the sacred Scriptures was given by the Holy Spirit; that every doctrine which men should believe is therein revealed; that every fault is therein reproved; that every error is corrected by its words of truth; and that perfect instruction in all righteousness is therein given.
The design of its Author in providing such a book was, that the man of God might thereby be made perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. This is the treasure which God has given to his church. Nor is this all that he has done. To those who are willing to obey the teachings of his word he has promised the Spirit to guide them into all truth.
To men thus situated, Jehovah thus speaks: “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” 1 Thessalonians 5:21. That is, bring every part of your faith and practice to the test of God’s sure word; ask the Holy Spirit’s aid, that your mind may be delivered from prejudice, and your understanding enlightened in the word of truth. Then, what you find revealed in that word, hold fast; it is of priceless value; but relinquish at once every precept or doctrine not therein recorded, lest you make the doctrines of men of equal weight with the commandments of God. “What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the Lord.”
As the first day of the week is now almost universally observed in the place of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, we design in this tract to examine the grounds on which this observance rests. Those who are willing to submit their opinion to the test of Scripture and of reason are invited to unite with us in the examination of this subject. For what reason do men prefer the first day of the week to the ancient Sabbath of the Lord? On what authority do men continually violate the day which God sanctified, and commanded mankind to keep holy? Come, now, and let us reason together. Here is the commandment which it is said has been changed:-
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work; but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God; in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy man - servant, nor thy maid - servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day; wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.” Exodus 20:8 - 11.
That this commandment requires men to remember and to keep holy the rest - day of the Creator, which he hallowed at the close of the first week of time, none can deny. We now ask for the authority for the change of this commandment.
Papists believe that their church had power to change the fourth commandment; and, on that authority alone, they are perfectly satisfied in observing the first day of the week.
Protestants deny the authority of the church or Rome, and attempt to vindicate the change of the Sabbath by an appeal to the Bible. This is what we wish them to do. We ask them, therefore, to present a single text in which it is said that God has changed his Sabbath to the first day of the week. The advocates of the change have none to offer. If they cannot present such a text, will they give us one which testifies that God ever blessed and sanctified the first day of the week? Its observers admit that they have none to present. But will they not give us one text in which men are required to keep the first day holy, as a Sabbath unto the Lord? They acknowledge that they have none. How, then, do they dare to exalt the first day of the week above the Sabbath of the Lord, which the commandment requires us to remember, and keep holy?
The Bible thoroughly furnishes the man of God unto all good works. Can Sunday - keeping be a very good work when the Bible has never said anything in its favor? Or, if it is a good work, can men be very thoroughly furnished in its defense when God has said nothing in its favor? Instead of being a good work, must it not be a fearful sin against God to thus pervert the fourth commandment, when once the mind has been enlightened on the subject?
But there are several reasons urged for the observance of the first day of the week, which we will here notice.

darkchild64:
The reason for creating this thread like the op said is to ascertain if there is a good reason why someone("God" who is said to be all powerful and also merciful would allow sometging so devastating such as the Holocaust occur,sciencewatch if u don't want to answer the question it is not compulsory, create ur own thread and ask atheists the questions u want to ask them and am sure they would give u answers,am coming from a neutral ground here and I will be honest with u no one has provided the answer to the question the op asked,doctorallen to show that the reason u gave is not good enough the op asked whether u would choose the Holocaust plan or "God" writing on the sky somethibg similar to what he had earlier posted to fulfil his plan and u haven't given ur answer

Use your head oga. I asked you a question which you have not really answered. But let me rephrase it: is any answer I give what God should have done?

MsNgo40:
How are you brother?
Thank you very much. I am familiar with Amazing Facts....through their "21" study guides.
Thanks for pointing me back!
Please pray for me....seriously.
Maranatha

P.S... I just realized that u may have been speaking to Analize..
Was it to her or me?

Thanks a lot. Yeah, the study guides were and still are helpful. However the link I gave contains great articles addressing most issues and questions, e.g. the one the OP put forward. Please check it out. Thanks once again.

I was speaking to you, Msngo40 I'll remember you in my prayers. Tread cautiously, sister.

MsNgo40:
Analize701,
You have some knowledge of scripture.
What are your thoughts about what he has written here in light of the original topic?
I'm interested in knowing....if you don't mind.

Good day sister. How are you doing? Maranatha!

Do you know about the Amazing Facts Free library of articles? If not, I would like to introduce you to this e-library. It contains a lot of helpful information to Adventists. Find the link below:

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/read/c/1/t/free-book-library#studymore

God bless you

3nim:
Commit murder, tell lies, fornicate and commit the Holocaust?. Or do the Holocaust? I'd rather say that the Holocaust is the effect of sin and not sin on its own. The effect of Hate.

But to show his own children the effect of sin on the world, he let them be the ones to suffer the pain, instead of the people who commit the sin?

No problem just punish Emeka when Uche commits a crime. Emeka will learn a lesson from that.

You said it's a great success. I don't believe you've really encountered suffering, If you can come comfortably comment on Nairaland right now. I might be wrong.

Please let me know the Bible passages you got your explanation from.

The Holocaust was murder (on a large scale), and murder is sin, which is the transgression of the Law (1 Jn. 3:4). However, you can say that the Holocaust(which occurred because man has rejected the law of God) reeks of injustice, and has created anything but peace and happiness. Which is exactly what God wanted to achieve.

The only other alternative to letting a system which does not regard His holy Law operate for some time, so that creation can assess it, is to destroy anyone who disregards His Law at once, and that would have started with Satan. Refer to my first post on this thread for the consequences of such a choice.

Verses backing my explanation are interspersed throughout the Scriptures. I don't want to say further.

darkchild64:
his comments didn't answer the question directly, how about given us urs,because it seems u came but to still, kill and destroy atheists

Do our answers to the question mean anything?

jean1128:
U asked me for another way for "God" to execute his plan besides the holocaust, and I gave you one,instead of u to either acknowledge it as a better plan or dismiss it with reason,u went and started quoting what some "atheists" said,I just don't understand when christians would learn how to argue.
What I need from u is to admit that the plan I presented is better than allowing millions of people to die or dismiss it with reasons u think the "holocaust plan" is better

How is that plan better when miracles like that and even the act of God Himself appearing can't even convince people like John Smart and Martin Rowson?

LOL.

jean1128:
So what u re saying is that the u and other christians u re referring to needed " God" to allow the holocaust to occur to prove to u that the transgression of his law would bring drastic circumstances,can u just listen to urself

If God had destroyed Satan immediately He sinned, thus not allowing sin to continue, the whole of Creation would have had only God's word to attest to the fact that if disregard for His Law is enthroned, pain and misery would be the order of the day. The seeds of doubt of God's word which Satan planted in the minds of some would have germinated. Someone like you would have said something along the lines of "God, why don't you allow created beings to operate for some time, as Satan suggested, without regard for your Law, so that we can see if Satan's claims are true?" So God allowed Satan to continue, and in doing that He allowed sin to continue, since Satan hawks sin. The earth, where men do not regard God's holy Law, is today is a testimony to the truth of God's statement, as pain and misery abound. The Holocaust, which is even recent, is only one of the terrible consequences of the reign of sin. You can say that it was going to happen because sin guarantees only such things. Before the Holocaust occurred, and backwards even until Adam, men have been convinced of the truth of God's claim, as pain and misery have been the order of the day since the fall.

What am asking is this IS GOD ALLOWING CHRISTIANS TO BE KILLED AND CHURCHES BOMBED ALSO PART OF HIS PLAN TO PROVE THAT WITHOUT HIM WE WOULDN'T HAVE PEACE AND HAPPINESS ?

YES! Abel was slain, Jesus Christ was crucified, Zechariah was slain, Peter was crucified, Paul was beheaded, many were burnt at the stake, many got bombed in churches. The whole of creation, including those suffering these things, are now judging for themselves how desirable Satan's proposed reign of sin(the transgression of His Law) is. The good news? God will resurrect His people at last, and wipe every tears from their faces.

I bet u can't make this statement to a worldwide audience including those who lost their dear ones to the holocaust

You're subtly appealing to emotion here. Doesn't mean God's plan isn't a success.

jean1128:
There is no point in what you just said

LOL. I did not expect you to see any point in it.

I have limited knowledge unlike ur "omniscient God" but nonetheless let me suggest a plan like u requested. how about "God" writing in the sky something like "I AM YOUR CREATOR JEHOVA,RETURN TO ME O MAN AND I WILL GIVE YOU PEACE AND HAPPINESS, O CONTINUE WALLOWING IN YOUR SIN AND LIVE IN MISERY. Don't you think that if " God" does something like that in our age that it will sure defeat every argument of atheism and lay it to rest,and of course it will convert a lot of people to christianity,and the best part of it is that there won't even be any bloodshed or anyone that will get hurt unlike the "Holocaust plan",and don't tell me that it is too ridiculous or demeaning for " God" to do,remember he story of the handwriting on the wall and Elijah and the prophets of Baal,they are no different.

I will respond with quotes from your fellow atheists. The late Australian philosopher John Smart reveals the lengths that he would go to in order to explain away a miracle if he witnessed one:

“someone who has naturalistic preconceptions will always in fact find some naturalistic explanation more plausible than a supernatural one… Suppose that I woke up in the night and saw the stars arranged in shapes that spelt out the Apostle’s Creed. I would know that astronomically it is impossible that stars should have changed their positions.

I don’t know what I would think. Perhaps I would think that I was dreaming or that I had gone mad. What if everyone else seemed to me to be telling me that the same thing had happened? Then I might not only think that I had gone mad – I would probably go mad”
http://reasonsforjesus.com/90-atheist-quotes-every-christian-atheist-need-to-read/

He would think all these things but would never think that God exists who could have done that miracle!

Here's what Giles Fraser said:

"The Guardian cartoonist Martin Rowson recently told me that he would be an atheist even if God walked into the restaurant. Similarly for Nietzsche, it's not a question of evidence or the lack of it."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/feb/05/passionate-atheism-me-christianity-nietzsche

Enough said.

ScienceWatch:
Excellent ! Awesome ! Wow, your moniker should have been Doctorwise.

Unfortunately, Atheists, agnostics, etc will never understand the profound truths you wrote here DoctorAlien. Never, never !!

True Christians are instructed by the bible to, NEVER THROW THEIR PEARLS OF TRUTH TO THE ATHEISTIC/AGNOSTIC SWINE. FOR THEY WILL REND IT AND THEN TURN ON YOU.

WORD, BROTHER. WORD.

These are precious truths that came to us at such awful costs. Far more precious than all the riches in the world. These truths are not to be cast out to the swine of skepticism as they can never recognize its value.

But for sake of those who are genuinely searching for answers, I have written these things. May God have mercy on all of us.

jean1128:
let me start by applauding you for at least airing your opinion ,but then just because that is what u think doesn't make it right so I would point out the problems I have with your explanation,if u disagree with my points,feel free to rebut it OBJECTIVELY.

First of all I read through ur post carefully and I observed that 99% of what u said is merely conjecture ,u don't have any biblical evidence to ur point if u do kindly share it.

You can call it conjecture. It mean it's not the truth. You're not a student of prophecy, and so I understand your ignorance of these things. However, there are direct pieces of evidence in the Scriptures supporting the points I made.

Then I would like to call ur attention to what we are talking about here,bro we are talking about the holocaust,people were slaughtered like chicken through the most painful forms of death; the pogrom and the rest of them,now u claim that "God" is omnipotent that means he can do EVERYTHING and he is equally omniscient that means he knows EVERYTHING now my questions are

You're talking about the Holocaust, which is sin, the transgression of God's law. Other examples of sin include adultery, stealing, covetousness, etc. They are numerous. Why haven't you called my attention to the widespread sexual immorality, dishonesty and covetousness to name but a few, in the world today?

Let us assume like u said that "God's" plan was to prove to man that only wilful obedience to his will can guarantee peace and happiness

1) WAS ALLOWING THE HOLOCAUST THE ONLY WAY TO ACCOMPLISHING HIS PLAN?

If there is a better way God could have accomplished His plan of letting creation know that sin can never bring peace and happiness to creation, other than letting sin reign for while(by allowing the hawker of sin, Satan, continue for a while), then state it.

2)if the answer to no1 is no which of course is the right answer considering that "God" is supposedly omnipotent,then the second question is WAS ALLOWING THE HOLOCAUST OCCUR THE BEST WAY TO ACCOMPLISH HIS PLAN ?

The answer to no.1 is YES! What could God have done?

3) If the answer to no2 is no then the third question is
WHY DIDN'T HE USE A BETTER METHOD
but if the answer to no2 is yes then the third question is
WHY WASN'T HIS PLAN ACCOMPLISHED ?

God's plan has certainly been accomplished! When Satan murdered the Commander-in-chief of the hosts of Heaven, the sinless Son of God, their beloved Lord, the unfallen angels and the unfallen world's fully discerned the character of Satan, "that he was a liar and a murderer from the beginning." John 8:44
God's plan has been accomplished, as it has become clear to me and Christians like me from Adam until now that the transgression of God's Law can only bring pain and misery, as it is in the world today, and that only the reign of God's Law can guarantee peace and happiness. However, you don't expect the whole of creation to admit this fact. Satan, his angels and his followers on earth will never admit that fact. And to them belongs the destruction of hell.

you can agree with me that since 1945 after the Holocaust occurred till now the world has witnessed a large number of people adopting other means to solving their problems without involving "God" and religion and it has proved very successful,at least the happiest countries in the world are majorly irreligious  and so their has been a remarkable increase in the number of irreligious people,and also other similar events have continued to occur such as the 9/11 attacks in the U.S.A the 1972 Munich attack and the rest of them,it hasn't led anyone to seeing "God" as the solution to peace and happiness rather  it has raised more questions to his existence,and if u say that "God" allowed the holocaust to occur to make us acknowledge him as the source of peace and happiness,what do u have to say about terrorist attacks carried out on the churches itself and on christians,is that also a way for him to execute his plans?.

God's children have ever been persecuted and killed by the children of darkness, from righteous Abel until now. Indeed the children of darkness, in persecuting innocent children of God, have continued to demonstrate to the universe what it looks like to enthrone lawlessness. Terrorist attacks on Christians is a part of such persecution, and such attacks serve to even make the evil of sin clearer to Christians. We look forward to the Kingdom where sin does not exist. As I suffer the injustice of persecution from the children of darkness, I ruminate on sin and its disastrous effects. But I'm also consoled by the fact that even if God leads me through a violent death, He will still resurrect me at last to immortal life.
"Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him." Job 13:15.

Finally if "God" allowed the holocaust to occur to make humans realize that obeying him is the source to peace and happiness why is it that his plan failed,because what am seeing in the world is an unpreccedented revolution towards religion wildly aided by the social media  and when the plan ur "God" made failed it tells at least one of these three things
1) "God" is not omnipotent which explains why the plan failed
2) "God" is not omniscient which explains why he couldn't make a plan that didn't fail
3)"God" is neither omnipotent nor omniscient, so why bring him into the picture at the first place

Even if God's plan convinced only me and the children of God like me from Adam until now, it was a huge success. Surely the whole of creation wasn't going to admit that fact. At least not Satan and his cohorts. But that's fine.

I would not go further on the events of the last days, as you are not a student of prophecy. But know that the Bible foretold a period of well-nigh universal rebellion against God on earth just before Christ returns. The nature of this rebellion is beyond the scope of our discussion.

Martinez19:
keep fooling yourself.

Is that all you have to say?

Skeptics often like to say that either God is willing to remove evil but is not able, or He is able to remove evil but is not willing. This is a false dilemma, however, as there is a third option. This third option, which is true, is that God is able and willing to remove evil, but the time has not come for that in His scheme of things. Evil here refers to sin(the transgression of God's law) and its effects which includes death, diseases, disasters, pestilence, infirmities, wars, pain and grief. The Holocaust was murder (which is sin) on a large scale. So, why did God allow sin to continue? Why did God not destroy Satan immediately he sinned, to prevent him from corrupting the rest of creation?

Satan had charged God with being unreasonable in demanding obedience to His Law. Satan maintained that the immutable Law of God(the 10 Commandments), which is the constitution of Heaven, was an unnecessary restraint placed on the created beings. He proposed a system without the "restraint" of the Law of God, arguing that peace and happiness would abound the more throughout creation if created beings were not required to obey this Law. The very first commandment in this Law stood in the way of what Satan was getting at, which was worship, honor and homage for himself(Isa. 14:13-14). So God had to prove a point. And that point was that only willful obedience to His Law could guarantee happiness and peace to creation. Indeed, Satan had gone about his deceit in Heaven so well that had God destroyed Satan at once, it would have made Satan's claims appear true that God unreasonably demands worship/obedience to His Law. Furthermore, the act of destroying Satan immediately he sinned would have made the other angels serve God out of fear, and not out of love for Him and understanding of the need to do so. Therefore God decided to allow Satan develop his character fully, so that the whole of creation may judge things for themselves. And when man fell, handing over the rulership of this world to Satan, the earth was poised to be a good of example of what Satan's proposed system of things(rebellion against God) would look like. The unfallen worlds began to watch with keen interest to see how things would go on earth, as it is written "we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men."(1 Cor. 4:9). The Holocaust and other like wickedness are testimonies to what obtains in any system where God's Law is not regarded. You can agree with me that even until now, anything but peace and happiness has reigned on earth since Satan took over and began to influence things as  "the prince of this world", contrary to his claims. The earth is a testimony to the fact that if the Law of God is dethroned, peace and happiness disappear, and injustice is enthroned. This fact became even clearer to the unfallen worlds when Satan murdered the sinless Son of God. That is why we the children of God long for that Kingdom where God's righteousness reigns supreme. And that Kingdom will come very soon, and sin and sinners shall be obliterated.

So, in summary, God allowed sin(of which the Holocaust was an example) to continue so as to prove to Creation that only willful obedience to His Law would guarantee peace and happiness.

4kings:
Happy new year Otem, Raphiemontella Delishpot Wilgrea7 AnonyNymous Dalaman KingEbukasBlog Johnydon22 Cloudgoddess Teempakguy frank317 Hahn Benzics DeepSight PastorAIO SirJohn Plaetton Loj Sarrassin Felixomor JonBellion UyiIredia Adepeter2027 Akintom Hopefullandlord MrPresident1 Image123 JackBizzle SirWere winner01 Sharon01 DoctorAlien Analice107 Olaadegbu Shadeyinka Richirich713 CoolUsername bennyann HardMirror ValentineMary Seun et al

Hope we get more reasonable, peaceful and productive this year.

Happy New Year bro.

Md4great:
They don't believe in holy spirit and speaking in Togues

They don't study scriptures most especially the Acts of Apostle and other book written by Apostle Paul..

They enjoy reading book of Revelation , and part of Daniel vision...

Dear sir/ma, we the Seventh-Day Adventists certainly believe in the Holy Spirit of God, "whereby we are sealed unto the day of redemption." (Eph. 4:30). This same Holy Spirit is the promised Comforter, which Jesus sent to us to comfort us, teach us all things, lead us into all truth, and bring to our remembrance all that the Word of has taught us.

We certainly believe in speaking in tongues, as it happened in Acts 2, where the early Christians, under the power of the Holy Spirit, miraculously spoke intelligible tongues that could be interpreted. We believe however that the majority of views on speaking in tongues and its purpose today is wrong.

We certainly study the Scriptures, and do not in any way neglect the Acts of the Apostles or the Pauline epistles.

Yes. We certainly love studying prophecy. That has been the duty of all the children of God, from Adam until now. "The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law." (Deut. 29:29). It may interest you to know that Jesus Christ Himself, speaking about the end times, directed us to go and study the book of Daniel(Matt. 24:15). The book certainly means a lot to us, as we wait for the second coming of Christ. We study it together with the book of Revelations, because the two books are connected. In the book of Revelations, the Great Controversy between good and evil sees the dragon wroth with the true church of God, and going to make war with her remnant. This remnant of the true church of God is described as keeping the commandments of God, and having the testimony of Jesus Christ(Rev. 12:17). I guess you know that we Seventh-Day Adventists keep the commandments of God, as it is contained in Exodus 20. However, do you know what the testimony of Jesus Christ is? It is the spirit of prophecy! (Rev. 19:10).

Do you now understand why the Seventh-Day Adventist Church is characterized by prophecy?

Cc: godisgood200

Can you not show me where I criticized the actions of Allah? Have you now started begging me to explain to you how the OP assumed that the Bible is true in His posts? Nah! That's your homework man.

Anyway, lemme give you hints:

Neymar1095:
Why will a book from God who is so perfect in all his ways have contradictions in the first place. It's just like a fairytale story with different writers trying too much.

Neymar1095:
...what a merciful and kind God.

[s]

dalaman:
The hidden premise to his post is that the Koran is true. Why would you also criticize the actions of Allah if you consider them to have never happened. If the Koran is true no one but the demons of hell inspire the actions of christians and lie to them to worship a dead man as God.

[/s]

Very daft. But not surprising.

Where did I set out to criticize the actions of Allah? His post was unwarranted because we are on a thread which assumes that the Bible is true.

Neymar1095:
How is the bible true. Something that is filled with lies and contradictions. From the 2 creation stories to flood that never happened to god Eating solid food and taking part in a wrestling match.

Do yourself a favor and visit answersingenesis.org and go to the "Contradictions" section, and educate yourself there. They are doing a good job there in demolishing the supposed contradictions in the Bible.

adepeter2027:
Shekau is more merciful by killing unrepeatable Christians as well who fail to convert to Islam

Hope you know

A hidden premise to my post is that the Bible is true. And I say that this premise underlies the whole of this thread. Why would you begin to criticize the actions of God if you consider them to have never happened(because to affirm Allah and Islam is to invalidate the Bible)?

And if the Bible is true, no one but the demons of hell inspire the actions of Shekau.

Neymar1095:
And the only thing consistent in the bible is killing. FROM
KILLING every living
thing on the face of the earth
other than Noah's family and
thereby makes himself the
greatest mass murderer in HISTORY TO NU 31:31-40 32,000 virgins are
taken by the Israelites as booty.
Thirty-two are set aside (to be
sacrificed?) as a tribute for the
Lord. etc. what a merciful and kind God.

God is being merciful by actually destroying unrepentant sinners.

OP just constructed multiple strawmen. Too numerous to be numbered.

Because Israel rejected the Messiah they lost their place as God's favored people. Jesus predicted this would take place by saying, "The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof" (Matthew 21:43). Israel forfeited their franchise of the gospel by their own obstinate sin.

Who would be the new nation to receive the kingdom of God and bring forth the fruits thereof? The Bible provides a clear and concise answer in the apostle Peter's letter to the Gentile converts who "In time past were not a people, but are now the people of God." Of the converts to Christianity, the new people of God, he further says, "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light" (1 Peter 2:9,10).

In the new dispensation God bestows upon the converted Christians all the privileges and promises that had been made to the literal seed of Abraham (see Galatians 3:26-29). Now converted Christians assume the role of Israel, and the Christian church absorbs the status of the temple or sanctuary of God. The Scriptures make this abundantly clear in such texts as Romans 2;28,29; Ephesians 2:11-13; 19-22; and 1 Peter 2:5.

The Final Desolation
It is in the light of this New Testament principle of spiritual Israel that Daniel speaks of the abomination of desolation the third and final time. These references can be found in Daniel 8:13; 11:31; and 12:11. Discerning students of prophetic history realize that these verses predict the formation and ascension of power by the Papacy. It is an indisputable fact of history that the Papacy brought into the Christian church the very same practices of paganism for which ancient Jerusalem was destroyed. One has to do only a little study to see how image worship, Tammuz worship, and sun worship were introduced to Christianity during the Dark Ages. Many of these abominations are still with us in the form of statues, candles for the saints, rosary beads, Easter sunrise services and Sunday worship. [For more information on this subject, see Amazing Facts' booklet Baptized Paganism.]

By no means does the papal apostasy exonerate Protestantism. Most Protestant churches accede to the apostasy by continuing the practice of abominations that have their roots firmly fixed in ancient pagan religions, which were established to destroy God's truth. Both Catholicism and Protestantism have fostered abominations in God's holy place, His church. The Christian church is mirroring literal Israel. We are repeating many of the same sins and will consequently reap the same punishment of desolation, unless we are willing to read the handwriting on the wall and flee from Babylon.

It is clear that the three occasions of abomination of desolation found in Daniel result from apostasy on the part of God's people, but what is the sign that will tell us when the desolation is nigh?

In Luke 21:20 Jesus told His disciples what would be the last sign of the imminent destruction of Jerusalem. He said, "And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh." This text does not indicate that the armies are the abomination, but rather that the armies were the instrument to cause desolation. Through the Roman armies God would execute "the days of vengeance" for Israel's abominations.

When the Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem, it was a sign that most of the city's leaders and inhabitants had passed the boundaries of grace and had filled their cup of iniquity. To the Christians living in the city, this was to be a sign that Jerusalem would soon suffer God's judgment. As soon as the first opportunity arose, these Christians were to "flee to the mountains" (v. 21). In 66 A.D. when Cestius, the Roman general, surrounded the city the Christians knew the promised sign had arrived and the time had come to flee. At their first opportunity to escape they did so, and not one Christian died in the horrible destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

Just as God gave the early Christians a sign of when to flee Jerusalem, so He has given us a sign. He has made it possible for every Christian to know when this world's probationary hour is nearing its close.

In Revelation 13 and 14 John records a list of omens that will tell us just how close we are to the end. The sign that will show this nation has filled its cup of iniquity will be when it makes an image to the Papacy by uniting church and state. How much more neatly could this be effected than by the passage of a national Sunday law commanding everyone to honor a pagan day of worship? Such an event will be a direct fulfillment of Revelation 13:15-17, and provide assurance that the end of this earth's time is quickly approaching.

One author describes coming events this way: "As the approach of Roman armies was a sign to the disciples of the impending destruction of Jerusalem, so may this apostasy be a sign to us that the limit of God's forbearance is reached, that the measure of our nation's iniquity is full, and that the angel of mercy is about to take her flight." When the churches have apostasized in their abominations to such a degree that they enact legislation of a religious law which displaces God's holy Sabbath with a pagan holiday, we may leave our cities, knowing that a time of trouble will be forthcoming.

The abomination of desolation is an important subject in these last days. If we study this prophecy carefully, we will find that in each of its three fulfillments refers to a national apostasy by God's people that ends in their tragic destruction. We are now living in the time of the Christian church's final apostasy, which makes of none effect the commandments of God. We need to see that we are in the midst of fulfilling prophecy and keep our eyes open for the culmination of all things.

Our only sure protection against the abomination of desolation is to give our lives unreservedly to Jesus, loving others as He loves them and worshiping Him in the way that His word teaches. The greatest commandment is simply to love God with all our heart and soul and strength. If we have such love, it will be natural for us to do all things to please and honor Him. In return, He will see us safely through the desolation that will close this earth's history just before He comes again.

Breaking The Sabbath Brought Desolation
Just what were these abominations that resulted in such desolation? Since this was all done "To fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah," then Jeremiah should be able to tell us what substitutions in worship had been made. In Jeremiah 17 the prophet is told to stand in the gate of the people and prophesy. Under a divine mandate, Jeremiah told the people that if they would honor God's seventh-day Sabbath their city would remain forever, and that this faithful obedience would lead them into such a relationship with Himself that they would be used to convert the surrounding heathen nations (ch. 17:19-26).

On the other hand, if they would not keep the Sabbath day holy God would allow their city to be desolated. "But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the Sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the Sabbath day; then I will kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched" (v. 27).

Sadly, the Jews chose to continue breaking God's Sabbath and thus inaugurated their own destruction and captivity. The abomination that led to their desolation was breaking the Sabbath. Thus, we see the significance of 2 Chronicles 36:21: "To fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her Sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept Sabbath."

Ezekiel, who lived during the same time, also tells us about the abominations God's people were practicing in the holy place. In Ezekiel 8, the prophet was brought by vision to the door of the inner gate. God proceeded to show his servant the progressively greater outrages His people were committing. In verses 5 and 6 He speaks of an image that provoked Him to jealousy. In an escalation of outrage, unclean beasts had been brought into the house of God, women were weeping for Tammuz and the greatest abomination of all was twenty-five men standing in God's holy place "with their backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east" (Ezekiel 8:16).

God had instructed the Jews to erect the temple in a manner that would discourage the imitation of their heathen neighbors in sun worship. The ark of the covenant, the very focal point of the Jews' worship, was placed at the western end of the tabernacle. Thus the children of Israel would face the west, their backs to the rising sun, when they worshipped the true God. Yet the entrance of paganism among God's people had grown to such proportions that Judah's leading men were actually turning their backs on the temple of God. This was a significant act of apostasy.

Both Ezekiel and Jeremiah list the heathen practices that had been incorporated into the worship of God. Whether it was breaking the second commandment by idol worship, adoring unclean beasts, worshipping Tammuz, the mythological god of the pagans, or breaking God's holy Sabbath and worshiping the sun on the day consecrated to it, these practices all were classed by God as abominations. It was because the Jews persisted in justifying their own course and continued in these heathen customs that God permitted the desolation of their city.

Daniel himself agrees that it was the sins committed by God's people that caused their desolation. "O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and the iniquities of our fathers.... cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate.... open thy eyes, and behold our desolations..." (Daniel 9:16-18). It is important to note that the abominations were done by the apostate people of God. This in turn resulted in their forfeiture of God's protection and called down His judgments and chastisement in their desolation. This scenario of the abomination of desolation in Daniel's day, involving the first Jewish temple period, prefigures the two other abominations of desolation prophesied in Daniel. The next one we shall consider is the one that concerns the second Jewish temple period.

The Second Temple Desolated
After their release from Babylonian captivity and rebuilding the city and temple, the Jewish leaders erected a mountain of rules and regulations designed to protect them from repeating the sins that had led to their bondage. The fourth commandment's seventh-day Sabbath became a special object of amendment. The Jews reasoned that since it was transgression of the Sabbath that led to their captivity, they needed to define in minute detail how the Sabbath should be kept.

Over 500 rules concerning Sabbathkeeping eventually resulted. Some of these Sabbath laws were as ridiculous as this: one could not leave an egg in the sun on the Sabbath because the sun might cook it, and cooking on the Sabbath was a violation of the fourth commandment. Of course, this only resulted in a system of pure legalism. At last the people began to believe that favor with God depended on how well they obeyed the traditions of their elders.

Ultimately the people were led full circle to disobedience again. Jesus comments that in spite of their apparent religiosity they were still breaking God's law even as their forefathers had during Isaiah's and Daniel's day. "Well hath Isaiah prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoreth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men... full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition... making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered" (Mark 7:6-13). Once again the people found themselves immersed in vain and rebellious worship.

Even though their apostasy expressed itself in legalism instead of laxness, it was still based on the same principle upon which all pagan religions are based - that man can save himself by his own works. Jesus, like Jeremiah of old, rebuked this religious system and called it an abomination. "Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God" (Luke 16:15).

Jesus expressed His displeasure for their abominations on numerous occasions. Most notable were the two times He cleansed the temple. On these times He expressed His anger at the desecration of His holy place. The controversy between Jesus and the Jews steamed, boiled and spewed over religion. The religious leaders hated Him because He didn't look like the Messiah, He didn't respect their traditions and most notably He didn't keep the Sabbath in the manner they thought it should be kept. This latter issue infuriated the Jews and led them to seek Jesus' death (See John 5:10-16; Matthew 12:1-4; Mark 3:1-6).

In spite of the religious leaders' resistance, Jesus sought time and again to bring them to repentance and reformation. Often He reproved them for their erroneous ways and pointed the way to true and undefiled religion that is of great price in the sight of God. Yet they hardened their hearts and beat back the waves of God's mercy.

As Jesus entered Jerusalem for the last time, His prophetic eye saw the consequences of their constant rebellion. With a grief-stricken heart and tears coursing down His cheeks, He prophesied the coming doom of the city: "For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side and shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation" (Luke 19:41-44).

After teaching in the temple for several days, Jesus left its precincts for the last time. Again He was choked with anguish as He saw the ultimate result of His people's apostasy. He exclaimed, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings and ye would not! Behold your house is left unto you desolate" (Matthew 23:37,38).

On both these occasions Jesus placed the guilt upon the people by stating, "they knew not the time of their visitation" and "ye would not." As a result of not responding to God's call to turn from their abominations, their temple was to be desolated. This prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D. when the Roman armies of Titus burned the temple to the ground. This second desolation of the temple perfectly paralleled its first destruction. On both occasions the abominations were done by the apostate people of God and the desolation was an act of judgment performed by a heathen army.

This desolation of Jerusalem was prophesied by Daniel to come as a result of the people rejecting Messiah the prince. A careful study of Daniel 9:25-27 will show this to be the case. In verse 25 Messiah is promised to Israel and the city's restoration is also predicted. But then, ominously, all is prophesied for doom again. Verse 26 speaks of Messiah being killed by His own people and of how this act would cause their city and sanctuary to be desolated once again.

As Daniel heard Gabriel relay this prophecy, it was to his mind a replay of what he had seen happen to the Jerusalem of his day. The prophecy indicated that history would repeat itself, and this is exactly what happened. The abominations that God's people committed resulted, in both 586 B.C. and 70 A.D., in the destruction of their sanctuary and city -- first by Nebuchadnezzar, then by Titus.

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains. . . For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Matthew 24: 15, 16, 21).

What is this prophecy all about, and does it really affect Christians in today's world?

One of the most interesting prophecies in the Bible concerns the abomination of desolation. The element that makes this prophecy especially intriguing is that Jesus identifies it as a specific sign that the end is near.

It was in answer to the disciples' question, "When shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" that Jesus spoke of the abomination of desolation. He said, "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (Whoso readeth, let him understand then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains... for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Matthew 24:3,15-21).

Christians of many persuasions recognize this text as a definite and peculiar sign concerning the last days. Yet even though the majority of them can agree that the abomination of desolation is an important sign, they can't seem to agree on its specific nature. Even preachers are thrown into a quagmire of confusion - looking for something that no one is very sure about. It is a perfect example of the blind leading the blind.

Of course, some believe they know the identity of the abomination of desolation. Some teach that this prophecy was fulfilled when Antiochus Epiphanes interrupted the temple sacrifices between 168 and 165 B.C. The abomination they point to is the pig Antiochus had offered on the altar in the temple complex. Others believe the abomination of desolation refers to a future time when an atheistic anti-christ will overthrow the temple in Jerusalem and use it as his throne. Then there are those who believe the abomination of desolation is the Roman standards which were worshiped in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. at the time of its destruction by Titus.

Just what exactly is the abomination of desolation? Is it any one of these alternatives? Is it all of them at the same time? Or could it be possible that not any of these interpretations are correct? The answer to these questions is vitally important. Jesus clearly implies that our very lives could be at stake over this matter.

Jesus tells us that our study of the abomination of desolation should focus on the book of Daniel (Matthew 24:15). When one makes a careful study of this book, he discovers that the abomination of desolation can be divided into three parts. These parts are: the abomination of desolation in Daniel's day (involving the first temple); the abomination of desolation in Jesus' day (involving the second temple); and finally the abomination of desolation in the time of the end (involving the whole Christian church). The issues that come into play in the abomination of desolation as treated in the book of Daniel remain consistent in each of its three phases. Therefore they are types, or examples, of each other.

The First Abomination
The key that unlocks the mystery of this prophetic event is found in the first two verses of Daniel. "In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem, and beseiged it. And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with part of the vessels of the house of God: which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the vessels into the treasure house of his god" (Daniel 1:1,2). In these two short sentences Daniel provides a concise historical background to the remainder of the book which follows.

Further study of Daniel's prologue reveals the abomination of desolation was existent in his time and led to Jerusalem's captivity. The Chronicler reveals the reason the Jewish kings fell to Babylon. "Jehoiakim was twenty and five years old when he began to reign... and he did that which was evil in the sight of the Lord his God." It was because of Jehoiakim's iniquitous life that God allowed him to be taken captive.

The significant feature of this is that Jehoiakim's evil deeds are described this way: "Now the rest of the acts of Jehoiakim, and his abominations which he did, and that which was found in him, behold, they are written in the book of the kings of Israel and Judah: and Jehoiachin his son reigned in his stead" (2 Chronicles 36:5-. It was specifically the abominations of Jehoiakim that led him and his city to forfeit God's protection and thus fall to Nebuchadnezzar.

Unfortunately Jehoiachin, his son, didn't do much better. Scripture tells us he also did "that which was evil in the sight of the Lord." Consequently he too was taken captive to Babylon, and "Zedekiah his brother" was placed as king over Judah and Jerusalem (v. 9-11).

The Bible goes on to record that not only did Zedekiah turn out to be just as evil as his two predecessors, but "moreover all the chief of the priests, and the people, transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen" (v. 12-14). God's political and religious leaders, as well as the people, adopted heathen ways as their own. They did this at the expense of God's revealed truth. Notice where these abominations were committed: the people "transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen; and polluted the house of the Lord which he had hallowed in Jerusalem" (v. 14). These abominations were standing in God's consecrated holy place, the "house of the Lord." The religious leaders of the day had purposefully led the people to adopt heathen worship practices and incorporated them into their worship of God. In substituting for God's commandments the vain notions of men, the leaders of God's heritage provoked his wrath. The people rejected God's calls to repentance and reformation and were left to reap the consequences. "Therefore, he brought upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary" (v. 17).

This judgment was felt not only in the spilling of the blood, but in the complete destruction of the city and sanctuary (v. 19). This all was done "To fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath to fulfill threescore and ten years" (v. 21). The result of God's people practicing the religious abominations of the heathen was the desolation of their land, city and sanctuary.

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