₦airaland Forum

there is an error with the thread so i can't quote you word for word

Joagbaje:
All of us are only working with assumptions.

That was what you said about Pastor Albert Odulele, you even called somebody a liar for accusing odulele directly.

@gsuccess:
If you think drinking alcohol is the same as being drunk would you also say that eating is the same thing as being gluttonous? The text below is taken from Matthew chapter 11 verses 16 to 19.

To what can I compare this generation? They are like children sitting in the market-places and calling out to others:
'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.'
For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.'
The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' But wisdom is proved right by her actions.

You can clearly see that Jesus drank what John the baptist did not drink and he ate what John did not eat.

coolgb:
Sagamite,so dos men of God r the reasons why we hav epileptic power supply,they r d reasons why we hav bad roads,they r d reasons why you ran abroad to wash corpses,poverty is truly a mentality.

They are partly responsible insofar as to perpetuate the belief in magical solutions to real problems and spurning a generation of mentally lazy people.

Even Jesus himself implied that he drank alcohol in Matthew11

mummy3:
speaking in tongue is to make the devil confuse and scared of you, because the devil will feel you are trying to consult a greater power to come and deal with him or her for that he or she will flee

Thank you for the clarification, I now understand why you speak in tongues. It is because praying in the name of your 'Jesus' is no longer powerful enough to scare the devil and your 'God' is too weak and cowardly to confront the devil directly on your behalf. That is why He has invented a coded language to prevent the devil from eavesdropping when you pray to Him otherwise the devil can disrupt his wonderful plans for you.

Most the guys arguing in favor of tithing are its recipient or hope to be in the near future. They argue from their stomach instead of their head.

If you truly believe in hellfire, I think it would also be wicked and unreasonable for you to bring a kid that never asked for life and never made any promise about how he/she will use the life if given a chance into this world knowing that there is a real possibility irrespective of how the child is raised that the child might end in hellfire.

goodvine:
hello Dorox, I understand your question. God is very holy, he would not tolerate iniquity. that the souls of men who died as sinners will spend all eternity in burning flames should explain how deadly sin is and how God views sin. God knows the consequence of sin and the eternal suffering that souls of men shall go through, this i can understand is why he had to offer His only begotten Son Jesus Christ to pay the panelty of sin for all humanity. Do you think it is a joke to let Jesus suffer such horrific punishment and died for the sins of all men? Its no child's play. It was very possible for Jesus to avoid dying on the cross, but He also realised that if He failed to die, all humanity will be doomed! He had to go through it, died and shed his holy blood, because the scripture says in Heb 9:22 that without sheding of blood is no remission or removal, taking away or forgiveness of sin; and it also says in Heb 10:4 that it is impossible for the blood of animals to take away sin. The Lord knew the consequence of men dying without their sins forgiven - that is why He took it upon Himself to fulfil the condition for forgivenss and remission of our sins. You know something, God cannot change his word for anybody. Our human opinions cannot make him change his word of standard for salvation. Jesus has expressed His love for humanity by laying down His own life for us. It is left for us to accept or reject his offer of salvation. For every decision we take, there is consequence for it - whether good or bad. It's purely a matter of each person's choice.
Whether we beleive it or not, the reality of eternal hell is true and cannot be denied. It is only unfortunate for those who do not know the way of escape which God has made for all humanity - which is through repentance from sin, accepting Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour and departing from sin forthwith by His grace and through prayers and dependance on the help of the Holy Spirit which comes into our lives as soon as we repent and beleive on the Lord Jesus Christ. Its is terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God because He does not show mercy to those who refused His offer of mercy while they are alive. No matter what kind of sin a person has committed, God is willing to show mercy and forgive while he/she is still alive, but if he/she makes light of the love and mercy of God and refused to repent and turn away from sin and eventually die in such a state, aaaah na wahala ooo bros! because God is a consuming fire.

I think you completely got my question wrong. I never for once said that God won't punish unrepentant sinners but that subjecting a person that sinned for just 70-80 years of life on earth to an eternity of fiery torment sounds wicked and unreasonable to me. More so if you consider the fact that God gave us life freely without preconditions. by that i mean that if the consequence of failing to meet Gods standard is an eternity in hellfire , most people wouln't take the gamble of accepting life. My view is that God gave us life freely and those not making wise use of their life would have that life taken from them and those acting wisely would have everlasting life.

I see no reason why all for profit religious organisation shouldn't be taxed and properly regulated.

Nice one Enigma, I only hope that some of the sheeple will learn something from watching the video.

Is the concept of hellfire compatible with a just, merciful and loving God? Where is the justice or balance when you subject somebody who sinned for the whole of 70-80 years of life to a fiery torment for eternity? I personally don not think that it can be justified for one reason. Life was given freely to humans without preconditions, so justice would mean taking back the gift of life that the person failed to use wisely.

If only we can somehow pressure NEPA/PHCN to provide the country with constant electric 24/7 and hold our government accountable in areas like security and infrastructural development the impact it will have on the nigerian economy would be worth more than any prayer you can imagine. My message to nigerians is to stop whining and praying for santa to favor them with gifts, Thats the reasoning of kids. Use the brain that God has blessed you with to solve your problems.

Must nigeria continue to be a nation of mentally lazy people, content in explaining every little thing that happens around them as work of supernatural forces? Until we remove our brain from our rear end and start using it to understand the world around us, how it works and how to solve problems, we will remain a backward nation rich in ignorance and poverty.

Nigeria is so religious that a certified mad person shouting in Jesus name in public would get some Amen.

Koolking:
This thread is utter nonsense. you may continue to enrich your pastor but not me. I can not be forced to that.

You are quite right. this thread is utter nonsense, but the reason i and a few others keep pushing back on the lie that one has to enrich their pastor in order to be blessed materially is to help nigerians understand that until we start applying our minds to the myriads of problems we face as individuals and collectively as a society, progress cannot be made.

They would probably collect the tithes in cash and collect the one 'in kind' as an additional offering.

KunleOshob:
^^^

They would probably collect the tithes in cash and collect the one 'in kind' as an additional offering.

LMAO. Too funny.

Joagbaje:
@Dorox

Money wasn't given to pastor in the first place. Besides many pastors have their own jobs and businesses. And few may not be allowed by God to work so that they can devout themselves to the work full time.

As regards your question, if a pastor did something wrong , you can't ask him for a refund because it is not him you worship with your offering. We do all things to God. When Moses did wrong by marrying another woman ,even from africa. I'm not aware people stop following . His repentance is between him and God

Thank you for your response joagbaje, I still don not think that you have addressed the fundamental issue that I raised. but i will start by saying that i regret the comment i made about you a couple of days ago, It was unnecessary and uncalled for, it doesn't help in creating the kind of environment where the word of God can be discussed.
The pastor in my post doesn't work and so are other pastors that i know of. anybody can wakeup one day and start a church, there is no regulation stopping a gifted public speaker that doesn't even believe in god to make money by opening his/her own church. My point is about accountability what do you do to fake pastors that have defrauded people of their hard earned income?

So it sounds like gibberish to the unlearned. (carnal minded men) but in the spirit we speak mysteries .

I used to have a schizo neighbor that gibbers a lot, it instantly became obvious to me that he needed help. What i found surprising was the length of time it took his folks to come to that same realisation because they thought that he was in the spirit due to the fact that every now and then you hear him say blood, Jesus, fire, die, shoot, kill, bomb and a host of others in no particular order,

Hey Inedi, I thought I've lost you, welcome back.I am still waiting for you to respond to the question i asked you in my previous post.

dorox:
Quick question to Inedi and Joagbaje with regards to the 'Principles of Exchange, Your Channel For Wealth'. Should one discover that his pastor of many years, that he has consistently paid tithe and other forms of giving to in line with the stated principle above has been sleeping with different girls in and out of the church and in the process got some of them pregnant, convinced them to abort the pregnancy and paid for it to be done. Would it be proper to ask for a refund? If not, what should the person do? How can the person get some form of justice/compensation for all the wasted sacrifice?

Joagbaje:
This thread is not about crime. If a man commits a crime . He should face the music legally. Either he be a man of God or man of the devil. This thread us about Walls of doctrinal diferences in the churches  lack of tolerance of others based on doctrines .

dare2think:
You are a very funny dude?

Your post indicated we should leave "men of God" alone.

I gave a reason and example why we cant leave these self-acclaimed "men of God" alone in reference to your post.

Then you say this thread is not about crime??


Why then use a generic term, (Men of God),that criminals and paedophiles use??

He is yet to answer a similar but more direct question i asked him on another thread. Not holding my breadth for and answer though.

Martian (m)
E Pluribus Unum
Posts: 666

Just a funny observation Martian, your number of posts is equal to that of the 'Wild Beast' of Revelation.

MrBible:
Pastor AIO
[size=15pt]Are you saying this pastor may be collecting tithes in kind by going to peoples houses?[/size]

Sad but true.

The post below was made by me yesterday on a different thread, it tells you a bit of why i am very wary of the pentecostal church and why i also think that they are danger to society.

All these so called men of God especially those of the pentecostal/magical prosperity pedlars are in actual fact agents of the devil, their goal is to debase the priceless value of Jesus' ransom sacrifice to the extent that it can be measured in naira and kobo. All they talk about in their place of worship is how to get material prosperity by sowing seeds of faith. They have turned the house of God into an investment bank promising believers as much as a thousand percent return on investing some specified amount of money on their pastors/church/God. They crassly reinforce this warped unchristian value system on their members by rewarding the rich(ill gotten or not) among them with special front row seats closest to God pastor. At the beginning of every year as far as i can remember, they make all kinds of wonderful empty promises to their members à la this is your year of bountiful harvest, year of excesses, year of fulfillment and so on and so forth. In fact what they are able to promise believers at the beginning of each year is only limited by their imagination and at the end of each year the believers as a group are no better off making a lie of the preachers words. Just imagine how you would react if your doctor or banker gave you half as much false promises as these preachers, would that person continue to be your doctor or banker? Certainly not. Why then do we continue to allow all these evil men to make false promises and not hold them accountable?
  Just look at how poor nigeria is today, can you honestly say our poverty stems from the lack of church and church goers or the lack of muslims? We are poor because we are a nation of people that have lost the ability to think for themselves attributing every little thing that happens around us to the supernatural. When a car crashes or plunge into a river or something, we don't stop to question the state of the driver, the condition of the road or the serviceability of the vehicle in order to understand the cause of the accident and how best to prevent or reduce future occurrence. Instead you hear things like na mammy water, blood sucking demons were thirsty and all kinds of ridiculous stories comingfrom adults of normal intelligence.
In a nut shell, out of the abundance of Gods love for mankind, he gave his only begotten Son so that anyone exercising faith in Him might not perish but have a priceless everlasting life that money cannot buy. Don't let your pastor sell you short, being materially rich or poor is not an indication of your spiritual wealth.

Martian:
Ok, I'll take my thinking cap off and put on the dunce hat like joagbaje and co,

If such were to happen, it's our responsibility to pray for the pastor and leave judgement to god. Satan is always tempting these powerful men of god because he knows they are saving souls. The bible tells us, touch not my anointed and do my prophets no harm, so we should leave men of god to god himself because only god knows a man's heart and god might have already forgiven him.

*puts thinking cap back on*

How did I do?

You did very well i must say, though not in answering the substance of my question but in your accurate portrayal of the cliched response one might expect from the likes of joagbaje and inedi. Following that line of reasoning to leave men of god to god, does it mean that MOGs should be left to god when they violate women, or sexually molest children? If your answer is no, why then should they be left to god when they defraud people?

Any like minded person is free to answer the question i asked in my previous post

dorox:
Quick question to Inedi and Joagbaje with regards to the 'Principles of Exchange, Your Channel For Wealth'. Should one discover that his pastor of many years, that he has consistently paid tithe and other forms of giving to in line with the stated principle above has been sleeping with different girls in and out of the church and in the process got some of them pregnant, convinced them to abort the pregnancy and paid for it. Would it be proper to ask for a refund? If not, what should the person do? How can the person get some form of justice/compensation for all the wasted sacrifice?

Quick question to Inedi and Joagbaje with regards to the 'Principles of Exchange, Your Channel For Wealth'. Should one discover that his pastor of many years, that he has consistently paid tithe and other forms of giving to in line with the stated principle above has been sleeping with different girls in and out of the church and in the process got some of them pregnant, convinced them to abort the pregnancy and paid for it to be done. Would it be proper to ask for a refund? If not, what should the person do? How can the person get some form of justice/compensation for all the wasted sacrifice?

KunleOshob:
Uncle joe na wa for you oh! Patting your azibaula I.D on the back for using a greek word borrowed from the grand master of criminals (Oyaks). How vain/petty can you get?

Don't mind joagbaje, he is a very small man. Let us try to stay on issue as much as possible by ignoring petty distractions

Zikkyy:
I dont criticize a pastor for receiving gifts. i dont criticize pastors for collecting salary, i dont see anything wrong in a pastor having legitimate wealth. if and when i criticize pastors, it wil for insensitivy to the plight of the poor/needy, for behaviors that don't align with the teachings of Christ and the apostles. My perception of the role of pastors in any society include that of acting as a moral police (maybe i am wrong), ensuring christians stay on track. We have a society that so corrupt/morally bankrupt, everybody is chasing money (most times gotten at the expense of others), pastors are also in the race and encouraging their flocks to do. now it's free for all. Money is just about the only thing peeps think about. If i insult the politicians, surely you dont expect me to ignore the pastor now do you

100% in agreement

the little girl is imitating her parents and those around her. That is what kids do, they play house in imitation of their parents. they play teacher and student also. it doesn't mean she has a clue of what she is saying when she start speaking gibberish. Then again neither do you guys know what you are saying when you go into gibberish mode, perhaps she is not too different from you guys after all.