₦airaland Forum

Both the Holy Bible and the Koran are nothing but badly written story books.

Then again, which Bible are you saying is the truth? which version are you saying is the complete one? There are hundreds of different versions contradicting each other. I am sure that the one you choose to read is the righteous one

The Bible is not even a good read , and the Koran is as interesting as watching paint dry

Try some Shakespeare instead, at least the stories are well written, by a man that existed and they contain good story lines

this opinion sounds atheistic to me,

feelgood,

After going through some of the posts on this your thread, dear Babs, I Couldnt help but remember an old joke that seems quite apt here:
said one mathematician to the other: 'now that you have invented the zero, what do you now have? Nothing.

so what's so apt about it?

you are a disgusting hypocrite. Keep hoping from thread to thread. If this is really about the completeness of the bible i wonder why you ran away from threads that clearly prove the incompleteness of the quran.

, But why resort to emotions and abuses, I think that is inappropriate in a forum presumed to be intellectual. There should be a form of mutual respect for each other and emotions should only be directed to the arguments with facts and not at the speaker. Though I learned that thats the way black people do behave I do however believe that this is not only unintelligent but a form of cowardice.

I apologize of course if were davidalyn is coming from calling someone "a disgusting hypocrite" will amount to a compliment.
PEACE.

these muslims sef na wa. They seem to be more interested in reading the bible than their own quran.
So many bible quotes NOTHING from the quran. One would think he was arguing with fellow christians.

tnx t u too


just two for now

Allah says

They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: ,

abdkabir
tnx 4 thepoints

HI,

It's pretty simple to point out your inconsistencies:

there are no inconsistencies in wat i said , u simply took me retorics for real, ur error!, now i believe u know wa i meant.

This is classic Islamic guesses pandered as 'apologetics'. You're not even sure which is which, and then you had to betray your weak premise with "perhap , probarbly yes, ( or so we are made to believe. . ." So, your propaganda needs a bit more polish to make it shine; but so far it hasn't worked in your favour.

there is no such term as islamic guessses,


Besides, it is clear

that your inference of "no one relly know who wrote the biblical text" is simply a denial. The Gospels are named after the authors; and because this is embarrasing for Muslims to admit, they push the idea that no one could be certain of the authors of the NT.

this is no inference but facts, I did not invent the apocrypha or the millions of errors exitnig by comparative analysis of the gospels ( this not for this thread though) , do consider the following just in brief,

Consider the OT inconsistencies such as Moses describing his own death and a list of Edomite kings that lived long after his death, may be it was inspired while ha was writing the books huh? There are many contradictory texts found in the first five books. Duet 34:5 tells of Moses death, Some stories are told twice with conflicting details such as: Geneses 6:19 vs Genesis 7:2 (a different count of animals entering Noah’s ark); or Genesis 1: 25-27 vs Genesis 2: 18-19 (a different account as to order of the creation of humans and animals); or Genesis 1:27 vs. Genesis 2:18-22 (whether men and women were simultaneously created or created at different times). perhaps as you put it even Moses was not sure. you must have heard of the doublets, Tradition says that Matthew was written by the disciple Matthew, the tax collector, and the Book of John by John the Beloved. Mark was written by an associate of Peter while Luke by a traveling companion to Paul. It is felt that Mark was the first to be written in about 65 AD, followed by Luke and Matthew in 80 - 85 AD. John was written around 90 - 95 AD. The authors, however, never identify themselves and their names were later added by scribes. further, Mark was the first gospel to be written and that Matthew and Luke borrowed extensively from it. now as for some of the texts in these books, no one really knows their sources so they are referred to by the Latin Quelle ( which means unknown), or simply Q. Now by the 2nd Century, the Four Gospels were circulating independently of one another: Rome had Mark, Antioch had Matthew, Athens had Luke, and Ephesus had John. The Roman patriarch Marcion was a catalyst in drawing up a list of accepted scripture. He was very anti-Jewish, however, and anything relating to Jews was edited out of his list, including the entire Old Testament. He felt that the Jewish God was different from the Christian God. The Apocrypha was written :oby Alexandrian Greeks (the Septuagint Manuscripts) and many Jews[b] kept it [/b] out of their 70 AD Hebrew Bible because they were written too late and were in Greek. A consensus became imperative when Constantine commissioned to have 50 copies of Christian scripture published as a result of the Nicaene Conference in 325 AD.

The very first chapter of Genesis was not written by Tertullian, and there we read: "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness" (ch. 1:26).

I beileve here u arelaying emphasis on the plural, if so then understand that PLURALITY in that context has nothing to do with trinity, Alot of languages still use plural instead of singular as a sign of respect or power. its a pity this is not so in English ur mother tongue

The Jewish concept of monotheism may be somewhat different from what many people interprete it to be

So the Jewish concept of monotheism is - for there are 3 that are witnessed in heaven rite? because thy wrote it as such!?

What is even more to the point is that Muslim monotheism is very different from that of Christian and Judaic understanding.

As for that I think u need to explain to the audience what is the christain concept of monotheism, as for the Jewish , leave them alone as they do not believe your ways.

At best, the monotheism in Islam is NOT strictly what many Muslims

So what do the Muslims understand by that , according to you?

Abdkabir
thanx for the comment,

I seem to disagree with your position that the followers of the Jewish religion believe in the New Testament. If they did they would be Christians.

I am in no way intending to suggest in any way that the Jews indeed believed in the NT, they wrote it perhaps , probarbly yes, ( or so we are made to believe, as no one relly know who wrote the biblical text as we have it today) but for sure the Jews do not believe in it.
the Jews explicitly believe in MONOTHEISM, just as the muslims, unlike the trinitarians who fell into the The Filioque controversy. christianity in no way follows the strict monotheism found in Judaism and the Old Testament, of which Jesus claimed to have fulfilled. further more it has been reported to be an invention of early Christian church fathers, such as Tertullian. Father is greater than he is nullifies it all.

ffffffffff

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[quote][/quote]

Madam Syrup i think you need to know more about the nicene creed before you start talking ,

[td]The Allah worshipped in Islam is not the LORD God of Israel who in the New Testament is revealed in the Person of Jesus Christ. [/td]

Who is the Lord God of Israel you are talking about? the one crucified by the Jews? So the Jews killed their own Gods,

[tr]who in the New Testament is revealed in the Person of Jesus Christ[/tr]

No wonder the Jews believe in the new testaments that they wrote for you ,

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-39929.0.html#msg1010612

[b]The cross has become associated with Christianity. It was not, however, an early Christian symbol and, indeed, the Sabbath-keeping Churches have traditionally been iconoclastic and have abhorred the use of the cross symbol as pagan. Indeed, some of the Sabbath-keeping Christians have been martyred for their opposition to the use of crosses in Christian symbolism. The Vandals were iconoclastic Subordinationists who destroyed the idols revered in Greece and Rome.


The Paulicians were iconoclasts as were all the Sabbatati who were associated with or descended from them.

The Paulicians always objected to their rivals worship of the Cross (Armenian, Chazus); therefore the term Chazitzarii, Chazinzarians (Staurolatræ) seems to denote no small sect, but the Established Church of Armenia as viewed by the Paulicians (Whitley ERE, art. Sects, p. 319).


This iconoclastic sentiment went with the Sabbatati throughout Europe. Peter of Bruys taught for some twenty years in the south of France against the excesses of the clergy, and specifically against the use of the cross. The Church authorities wrote against the practice thus:

In your parts the people are re-baptized, the churches profaned, the altars overthrown, crosses burned; on the very day of our Lord’s passion meat is publicly eaten, priests are scourged, monks imprisoned and compelled by terrors and tortures to marry (Whitley, ibid., p. 321; cf. A H Newman Manual of Church History, Philadelphia, 1900, 1. 560).


This prohibition against crosses (as well as the practice of adult baptism) continues in Sabbath-keeping Churches of God to the present. The cross symbol is most ancient and has a number of mystical meanings.[/b]

God talking to his mother!( the mother of God )

[John. 2:4]
He said to Mary, "Woman, what have I to do with you." (I only quote here what
I believe not because I believe that Jesus the great prophet of God was more
polite and kind to his mother than what the Bible shows.)
[Math. 12:47]
Then one said unto Jesus, "Behold, your mother and brethren stand without,
desiring to talk to you" but he answered and said, "WHO IS MY MOTHER? AND
WHO ARE MY BRETHREN?"

I say Amen, to the prophet's prayer!

its amazing,

SWORD AND FIRE IN NEW TESTAMENT
--------------------------------
[Math. 10:34]
"Do not think that I have come to make peace on earth? I HAVE NOT COME TO BRING
PEACE, BUT A SWORD.
"For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her
mother."[said Jesus]!
[Luk. 12:49]
'I CAME TO CAST FIRE UPON THE EARTH, AND WOULD THAT IT WERE ALREADY KINDLED,
DO YOU THINK THAT I HAVE COME TO GIVE PEACE ON EARTH? NO, I TELL YOU, BUT
RATHER DIVISION; for from henceforth in one house there will be five divided,
three against two, and two against three. They will be divided, father against
son, and son against father, mother against daughter, and daughter against her
mother. [said Jesus]!
[Luk. 19:27]
For these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, BRING THEM
HERE AND SLAY THEM BEFORE ME.
[Luk. 14:26]
If any one comes to me and does not HATE his own father and mother and wife,
and children, and brothers and sisters yes and even his own life: he cannot be
my disciple.

comparism already done several times dear, read on

http://www.adherents.com/adh_influ.html

ok I will then, WHO ARE THE DOGS AND PIGS ?
----------------------------
[Mark 7:27]
Jesus said to her who sought his help, "It is not meet to take the children's
bread, and to cast it unto the dogs."
[Math. 7:6]
He also said, "Do not give that which is holy to the dogs, neither cast your
pearls to the pigs."


I think it meant non-jews right?, Shalom babe.


peace.

2 King 5:15]
THERE IS NO GOD IN ALL THE EARTH, BUT IN ISRAEL[center][/center]

2 King 5:15]
THERE IS NO GOD IN ALL THE EARTH, BUT IN ISRAEL

[center][1 Corin. 11:7]
For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God,
but woman is the glory of man, for man was not made for woman, but woman from
man, neither was man created for woman, but woman for man[/center][/b][b]

[Songs. 4:1]
Behold you are beautiful my love. YOUR LIPS are like a scarlet thread your
cheeks are like halves of a pomegranate, your neck like the tower of David.
YOUR TWO BREASTS are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle. How sweet is your
love my sister, my bride, how much better is your love than wine. How graceful
are your feet in sandals, O queenly maiden!
YOUR ROUNDED THIGHS are like jewels, the work of a master hand. YOUR NAVEL is
rounded bowl that never lacks mix wine. YOUR BELLY is heap of wheat, encircled
with lilies. YOUR TWO BREASTS are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle.

You are stature (in R.S.V. stately) as a palm tree, and your breasts are like
its clusters.
I say: I will go up (in R.S.V. climb) the tree, and lay hold of its branches.
Oh, may YOUR BREASTS be like clusters of the vine.


[b][Ezek. 23:2]
Son of man, there were two men, They committed whoredoms in Egypt;
they committed whoredoms in their youth; they were their breasts
pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity. And the
name of them were Aho'lah the elder, and A-hol-i-bah her sister. And
Aho'lah PLAYED THE HARLOT when she was mine, and she doted on her
lovers.
They BRUISED THE BREASTS OF HER VIRGINITY and poured their whoredom
upon her.
Wherefore, I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers, these
discovered her unclothedness,

And when her sister A-hol-i-bah saw this, she was more corrupt in her
inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in
her whoredoms. And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw
men portrayed upon the wall, And as soon as she saw them with her eyes,
she doted upon them, and sent messengers unto them, into Cal-de'-a.
And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled
her with their whoredom. So she discovered her whoredoms, and DISCOVERED
HER unclothedness, Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to
remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she PLAYED THE HARLOT in the
land of Egypt. For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh as the
flesh of asses, and WHOSE ISSUE IS LIKE THE ISSUE OF HORSES.

Thus you called to remembrance the lewdness of your youth, in bruising
your teats by the Egyptians for the paps of your youth. And they shall
deal with you hatefully, and take away all your labour, and shall leave
you naked and bare.
And the unclothedness OF YOUR WHORDOMS shall be discovered, both your lewdness
and your whoredoms.
You shall be filled with drunkenness and sorrow, with the cup of
astonishment and desolation. You shall even drink it and suck it out, and
you shall break the sherds thereof, AND PLUCK OFF YOUR OWN BREASTS.[/b]


MENSES IN THE BIBLE
-------------------
[Levi. 15:19]
When a woman has a discharge of blood which in her regular discharge from
her body, she shall be apart seven days.
And WHOSOEVER TOUCHES HER SHALL BE UNCLEAN until the evening. And every thing
that she lies upon in her SEPARATION shall be unclean.
Every thing also that SHE SITS UPON SHALL BE UNCLEAN.
And whosoever touches her bed shall wash his clothes and bathe himself in
water, and be unclean until the evening.
And whosoever touches anything THAT SHE SAT UPON SHALL WASH HIS CLOTHES, and
bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the evening.

And if it be on her bed, or any thing whereon she sits when he touches it:
he SHALL BE UNCLEAN UNTIL THE EVENING.
And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him: he shall be
unclean seven days, and all the bed WHEREON SHE LIES SHALL BE UNCLEAN.

And if a woman have an issue of her blood many days out of the time of her
separation, or if it run beyond the time of her SEPARATION: all the days of
the issue of her uncleanness shall be as the days of her SEPARATION, she
shall be unclean.
Every bed whereon she lies all the days of her issue shall be unto her as the
bed of her SEPARATION, and whatsoever she sits upon shall be unclean, as the
uncleanness of her SEPARATION.

And WHOSOEVER TOUCHES THOSE THINGS SHALL BE UNCLEAN and shall wash his clothes
and bathes himself in water, and he BE UNCLEAN UNTIL THE EVENING.
But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven
days, and after that she shall be clean. And on the eighth day she shall take
unto her two turtles or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest to
the door of the meeting tent.

nancyekpoh (f)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RE: Bible is the word of God.
God gave The Bible and He worked by the Holy Spirit on the minds of the writers of the Bible, and thus they received the inspiration to write (2Tim. 3:16). By the Bible, God makes Himself and his thoughts known to man. The Bible is the infallible truth and Word of God, it has no mistakes and it is the perfect rule, which guides our faith and manner of living (1 Peter 2:2). Being God’s Word, the Bible is Spirit and therefore higher than a natural man’s wisdom and understanding, and can only be revealed by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:7)

first let clear somethings, which God ar ewe talking about here? Jesus? then

When you said Jesus gave the Bible, what do you mean? Jesus was there while the Bible that we are talking about was not,

in several passages Jesus was said to have preached the gospel. but no one has ever seen the gospel,

1. "And Jesus went . . . preaching the gospel . . . and healing every disease among the people." (Matthew 9:35)

2. ", but whosoever shall lose his fife for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it." (Mark 8:35)

3. ", preached the gospel. . ." (Luke 20:1)


which gospel are we then talking about here, ? the bible?


There are many versions of the Bible and there are many conflicting interpretations of each version. Not only by the ordinary Christian believers and clergymen, but by those scholars who have spent their entire lives studying the scriptures. Such confusion is not the work of God. (Emmett F. Fields, 1983)

could all of them be words of God?

you said there ar eno mistakes , on that I stand to disagree, and I think so will the MAJORITY of christeandom, sister, u r alone on that point.
further more I disagree with you on the fact that it is a perfect rule which guides the manner of living, look at it this way, simple question, if a man divorses a womwn what should he do? can he divorse in the first place? or if a man kills another man intentionally, use the bible to give him a ruling on what to do with him, (of course if u r without sin.) ,

clarify please!


peace.

Backslider
When someone resolves to the use of abusive words in trying to prove his point, it shows low level of intellect as the abuser can not find adequqte points to get his arguments through. hence he resolves to the use of emotions.

the only things said by nferyn where that of facts, as the arguments u presented were baseless unintelligent and misleading, rather than you creating a stronger foundation for your arguments you begin sending him to hell. What a pity, so this is ur level of training.

you said to him that

IF HOWEVER YOU ARE FOUND AND MADE RIGHTEOUS BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB YOU WILL ENTER INTO THE ETERNAL LOVE AND MERCY OF GOD THAT PASSETH ALL UNDERSTANDING. HOW BLESSED IT IS TO BE FREE FROM CONDEMNATION OF THE SOUL

think you need to know more about the concept of cleansing with blood, freemasonary and satanism.

you better accept Allah and the message he sent through all the prophets from Adam (A.S.) to Muhammad (S.A.W.) as Jesus himself did, before Allah's decision comes on you.

remember Paul was doing to xtristaians what you are technically doing to Muslims now.

May Allah show you the way

peace.

There are differences in the number of books by atleast 17 books,


22:18 I testify to the one who hears the words of the prophecy contained in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
22:19 And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.


so if we go by the book of revelations, does that mean one of them will be taken away from the share of the tree of life (in otherwords - hell)[b][/b][/color][color=#990000]

Nella
have you read the laws you are carrying in the books the old testaments - actually the book of Isiah? pls check what it was said about sinners.
peace.

Once you are cornered and are speechless you begin to get abusive and start using abusive words,,,, because you are convinced of the truth and you begin to see the false statements you carry about in the armpits as a collection of historic books, your responses are actuallya sign of inadequacy and lack of BASIC intelect, answer to the questions the guy is asking, and stop using backdoor excuses to run away from it, and if you cannot and you will not then fear the day you will meet Allah to account for your beliefs,

keep it up BABS787!

THIS IS A TYPICAL CHRISTIAN STYLE OF EXPLAINING THE SHAMS IN THE BIBLE. DON'T WORRY ABOUT WHAT IS WRITTEN JUST BELIEVE, BUT HOW WILL YOU BELIEVE WITHOUT THE SCRIPTURES,

BESIDES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE GOSPEL THAT JESUS PREACHED WITH, NOT GOSPELS WRITTEN YEARS AFTER JESUS HAS ASCENDED TO HEAVEN OUT OF WHICH IN THE MAJORUTY OF CASES THE AUTHORS ARE UNKNOWN AND OF WHICH JESUS KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT.

PEACE.

is it?

Heaven and hell are but the creations of God, now will the Xtians go to hell or heaven? will non-Xtians go to hell or heaven?

In my opinion this depends on the God we are talking about, and what that Gods message said about those that do not believe in him.
Christianity (presumed to be followership of Jesus) in my opinion has the least requirements ifor heaven, n as much as the only requirement here is for one JUST to believe, what ever wrong a person does , there is no , and cannot be any punishment executable by man ( let him who is without sin cast the first stone, and all men are sinners!) So if a man kills another man, the punishment? - nothing! God here did not say anything to man ( in xtian phylosophy, we are all sinners so a man will have to wait for judgement day (or other man made law- depending on the approval of the senate) so basic positions on criminal and even occasionally civic laws which exist in both Judaism and Islam are totally wiped out in xtianity. so leave well as long as you believe in Jesus (according to xtianity) the only question remains on the orign of the scriptures not in terms of historic facts, but in terms of authenticity of the message beign Godly in the first place and not a creation of the Romans, and the emperor Alexander!


in Islam it is dfferent, here alot of passages , quite alot say " those who believe and do good works" so here in as much as just believe is an article of faith , you must wrap it all up with good works, apart from thaat even then it is not like these much good work is adequate to buy you heaven, NO! it all has to be buttered up by the mercy of God,

So you see the positions differ and the requirments vary, God know best.
peace.

Backslider
All you wrote here are basic blablabla phylosophically argumentative statements, NOT FACTS!
did you read all they wrote on the thread? check it again.

besides note the statements - the author of Mark. the author of Matthew etc, you know why?,
simple - authors unknown. and to date that is the truth. I wanted to hear things "like God said in Mark or Matthew or Luke etc, especially if they stop copying from one another.


religion is not about too much talk or beign able to present arguments well, but it is about the facts presented to Mankind by God (my Lord and your Lord - as said by Jesus). now as I told you, you cannot say God said so so and so, but the writers of Mark, writers of Matthew etc,


Lets talk about God.

no offense
peace.

MrBackslider,
Indeed I actually need nothing to present before Jesus and I need not to have anything a such. On the contrary I have something to  present before God,  you  should  remember when Jesus (an English translation of his name)  or Christ (an english translation of his title)said- by the way I am sure if you call him Jesus or Christ today , he will not turn to you because these are not his names or titles, he never spoke English!

[center]Stop clinging to me; for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren (disciples), and say to them, 'I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.'  (John 20: 17).[/center][i][/i]

There is not a single place in the biblical scripture, (a book that Jesus knows nothing about)  were it is stated that Jesus said "I am God, or where he said that his followers should follow him" - the famous 2 quotes viz 1. I and the father are one, and  2. if you have seen me you have seen the father" are  grossly mistranslated misquoted and misrepresented.

Nothing in the Gospels suggests anyone ever got angry about Jesus being addressed as Lord. but so do Lawyers call their Judges now, and as at that time the wifes called their husbands.


Remember also when Jesus said "why calls thou me GOOD? non is good save one, thats the father" and  when he said that "But even if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone in it, but I and the Father who sent Me"

The whole of the Bible hardly has up to 5-6 leaves full of the words of Jesus if combined all the other words then are what? Reason.

more so you will agree that Jesus has no much contribution to christianity as much as Saul or Paul did. this man concocted about 40-45% of all of the new testament, nad guess what Jesus did not anything about that.

peace.