₦airaland Forum

L1TTLE:
who decides who gets to be cook or gardner, make una no dey defend nonsense abeg.

Was little Jo not in his father's house when he was sold out by his own brothers to be a slave? (Child trafficking is even usually done by outsiders but this one was done by his own brothers) Yet, he became semi- king

Or is it the case of the rejected last son David, that was thrown to the bush, who later became king inspite of the impossibility.

So if you have not figured out how life works, then shut it.

Koppaguard:
The question is quite a mystery to me also, but I believe we were built differently for a reason, not to hate each other but to embrace our individual differences. As for suffering, I think it's human invention, we have not grown to conquer that yet due to the greed of the few enlightened fellows. Death and deformities from birth and after birth is beyond human comprehension, that is where we need external intervention from the Supreme being.

Actually, there is no mystery only people deceived and people deceiving themselves, yet life is clear and God even clearer.

When life was good did anyone care?
No.

But when they finish burning their life, is when they start shouting and making noises acting shocked about what life gives them

Jumbojax:
Yes the judgement is after death, and is the final say. But God does not want His children to live in dread and fear, that's not the spirit he gives us. And there's a spiritual formula that resolves this reality. There are two types of death and two types of birth, the physical and spiritual death and birth. The formula is like this, you are born once, you will die twice, but if you are born twice, you will die only once. You must be born again.

First, if and when you are truly a child of God, then you would see that you have nothing to fear for you would understand God and you would know how to avoid His Troubles exactly how children know what their fathers hate and love and know what to do with that information depending on what they want

Secondly, God does not want many things but nonetheless, He will not stop The Law from taking irs course eg He does not want people dying but The Law takes it's course

Dricker:
oga shift whenever logical matters are being argued,fanatics like una go dy spew trash..typical Nigerian religious fanatic

If my answer was not logical why did you not point out the illogicality?

And just look at your response, which reasonable and fair person would say you be God pikin? You think say God no know who bin Hin children?

Go find your papa, God no be your papa and no go ever be your papa

Hhh4444:
You have been lied to that the creator is good. Look around you, does this world look like a good place?A good creator that has the best interest of his creation at heart would not allow the porverty,pain,Injustice,disease and evil perpetrated in the world. He derives joy in watching people go through hell on earth.

Was that not it was before devs like you came and destroyed it?

Is it not your brother that drove away people from their lands is Maroko, Makoko, Takwa bay and you supposed him because you know you would get on acre of land there? May more hels breleased

LagbajaTheBEREAN:
One said the Christian God is powerless....

😁😁😁😂😂😂😂😂😂

Human beings are interesting bunch of beings.

Yet the idio complains about the same life that God has kept everybody in which he cannot break out of. I pray his house is demolished and his car burns and he gets sick but no Hospital for him

Dricker:
I just keep asking myself this almost everyday personally if I have children tomorrow I will do everything possible to protect them,according to the Bible we are children of God and created in his own image..

When u ask they tell you the lord works in mysterious ways and shouldn't be questioned

Does that not tell you that you are not God's children?

Even look at yourself, are you God's child?

Ashirioluwa:
Not only the main gate and fence. Normal wear and tear that occurs in a rented apartment through everyday use and aging is generally the landlord’s responsibility.

However, this might not always be the case in Nigeria, largely because of the housing shortage. Many landlords may try to pass repair costs on to tenants, knowing that some tenants will simply pay without complaining.

Normal.

That is why normal responsible landlords renovate before a tenant packs in

Sleekfingers:
And if the tenants damaged the gate the landlord should come and repair it abi?

If the fence fell on its own . Yes, the landlord should do that . Also Roof and other structural damages , ....that's if the tenants are not the cause of the damages .

Naturally, if the tenant is the one who damaged it, the tenant would be the one to fix it.

Jumbojax:
Ananias and Sapphira had their flesh killed, it wasn't documented the destiny of their eternal souls

The one who believes in Jesus, though His flesh may die, His soul will live forever in Heaven regardless of their lifestyle

If it is so that they have died and paid for their sins, then why is judgement after death as Hebrews 9:27?

Death, is just a person being arrested and put into awaiting trial cell and when God's Court is convened aka judgement day is when the books shall be opened and they would be read their charges and time for God's Prosecuting Officer to prove the Truth of the charges against them.

I have noticed too.

benodic:
Heaven looks just like earth. Remember as above so below.

That's why most people who translate don't even know that they are dead. Because the environment looks exactly the same.

The only difference between heaven and earth is the level of divine love vibrating through it. The higher you go the higher the vibration of divine love.

So, you have died before abi? Especially when they dying, they even knew they were dying as they crying and praying not to die.

Anyway, from the Bible there are different heavens and there is a heaven that looks like earth because it is twin of earth. And both of them were born together and both shall die together

Beautifulday:
Some believe you have to do something special to go to heaven after you are born again.

They preach don't sin while they live in sin and never tell you how not to sin

The only thing that they have to do is to not sin.

And the Truth is that you already know how not to sin but do you really want to not sin? That is for you to answer.

In all these, remember you cannot deceive God even if you deceive yourself

Jumbojax:
For you to be born again you must believe the gospel, that Jesus paid for all your sins even future ones. Sin has some repercussions here, but a born again can't pay for sins in hell

Why do you people deceive yourself? Who told you God is partia? Shall God punish Ananias and leave Sapphira?

Any one who sins and is found in sin on in the Day of God's Court is a gonner.

dofman:
Which heaven are you guys talking about nah .
One of your guys here said u guys will turn to angel and sing tire in the Pauline heaven 🤣.

They say u will even separated with your family ahaa.

Na true ? 🤣

Since when do you listen to dey say?
Even now are Christians not separated from their families?

So, no worry yourself just ready to go your own world

ginggerxy:
How possible and doesnt this statement not against the real essence of the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ?

No, it does not for even the disciples who first said that it was impossible, thereafter understood what Jesus meant and lived in it and retaught us.

The first problem is that people already do not want to change, see how they complain about fornication, is it now to obey the other Laws that they would do?

Beautifulday:
You can't live in sin as a child of God. We judge people base on our own limitations. God has his standard.

Jesus is the standard. Jesus bore your sins; past, present and future.

So the question is are you are a child of God? Do you live sinless? Is there any who shall accuse you of sin if we check the last 2 weeks?

yeshuasfootstep:
Okay, Celebrate the Trophy you've won.

Let it bring peace and healing to the world.

That's all we're after.

Since 2019 i have been celebrating the win as since then till tomorrow i have been waiting for atheists bring a valid counter, but alas, there is no valid argument against the Truth.

Further, we Christians know that there won't be peace and healing in the world until after God Comes to clear all the evil people away.

Meanwhile, we Christians have peace, healing, goodness, love and every good thing so, we are not bothered

DeepSight:
It is one thing to prove that an ultimate source exists and quite another to prove that it is that same hideous character described in scripture, who is yet still benevolent and loving, allegedly.

I mean no offense but I concur with chieveboy that these discussions are not for you.

Yes, it is true that proving God exists is different from proving that He is the one one in the Bible Whom you falsely accuse of being evil, when the facts prove that He did only the good which when I have put to you many times, and you could not give any VALID COUNTER exactly how the atheists here could not validly rebut the proof of God in this thread.

I even showed you threads where people confessed that the same things you wike.dli call hideous are the very things people called good eg

https://www.nairaland.com/8741825/many-terrorists-dead-boko-haram#140543420

https://www.nairaland.com/8657929/nigerian-air-force-bombs-terrorists#139170443

Or is it this one about a stubborn child.

https://www.nairaland.com/8602510/father-kano-murder-suspect-demands#138196160

Same thing happened to the dev chieveboy which you can see in the thread he has gone kols.

So, you are talking rubbish.

erad:
That's a fallacy but believing a donkey spoke because it's written in a book is not? Are you serious right now?

Now you are committing the fallacy of red herring, off point and departure from post all because you want to say something.

And you are just proving that atheists do not/cannot reason or argue well. Always committing one false reasoning or the other unlike normal people.

In case you don't know the meaning of fallacy

fallacy
/ˈfaləsi/
A fallacy is a false idea, or erroneous reasoning that makes an argument logically unsound and untrue.

erad:
One of the tricky things about the creator theory that most religious people will never accept is that it is a never-ending loop.

If you insist the world and how it works is so beautiful and intricate and therefore must have been created by a creator... You also have to be willing to welcome the idea that that creator didn't just appear one day and must have been created by another creator... And that creator by another creator... At what point does the loop end?

This is a fallacious argument. The Fallacy of false dilemma and that is why such a thinking is wrong, rubbish and unacceptable.

So, basically you atheists have no valid argument to make against it.

In case you don't know the meaning of fallacy

fallacy
/ˈfaləsi/
A fallacy is a false idea, or erroneous reasoning that makes an argument logically unsound and untrue.

DeepSight:
Most religionists do not realize that even if they successfully prove that a God exists, they still have a long way to go to show that it is the kind of God described by their particular religion.

How do you mean we can't prove that He is the very God described in the Bible?

yeshuasfootstep:
To begin with, we're not atheists.

You see how you use to watch your kids or little siblings playing Mama and Papa game, cooking, even building little houses with all seriousness.

That's how we view the world, dissecting and analysing it and putting everything straight.

More like an umpire..

That's what we do at UWAKIN. Just type UWAKIN on your Facebook.

I Don't care besides this is Fallacy of red herring/Off Point.

yeshuasfootstep:
Back to our issue:

Your argument collapses at the exact point where you claim it becomes a “proof.”

You say science begins with observation. Correct. So let us actually observe what you have established.

“I have never observed a thing creating itself” does not logically become “therefore everything that exists was created by another thing.”

That is an inductive observation being promoted into a universal metaphysical law without sufficient justification.

You have observed that things within our experience have causes. You have not observed the origin of the universe being created by God.

And here is the crucial distinction you keep avoiding:

I do not have to prove that the universe was not created in order to point out that you have not proved that it was created.

You made the positive claim:

“Everything must be created by another thing.”

Therefore, the burden of demonstrating that universal premise belongs to you.

Saying, “You cannot prove me wrong, therefore I am right,” is not logic. That is an argument from ignorance.

If I say, “There is an invisible dragon in my house,” and you cannot prove there isn't one, have I therefore provided proof of the dragon?

Obviously not.

Now your argument becomes even more interesting.

You say “No thing creates itself.”

Fine. I agree. But notice what that actually gives you:

XXXXX. XXXX
Self-creation is not an explanation.

It does not give you:

“Therefore God created the universe.”

There is an enormous logical gap between those two statements.

And your own theology exposes the problem.

If something can exist without being created, you cannot claim that everything requires a creator.

You therefore say God is uncreated.

Fine. Then you have conceded the fundamental possibility that something can exist without being created.

Your argument is no longer:

“Everything needs a creator.”

It becomes:

“Everything except God needs a creator.”

[b]But now you owe us an argument for why God gets the exemption and the universe, or reality itself, does not.

You cannot simply define God as “the uncreated Creator” and then present that definition as evidence that God exists.

That is not discovery. It is definition.

And finally, you keep saying, “There is no valid argument against God.”

That does not prove God.

The inability to disprove a proposition is not evidence that the proposition is true.

Science does not currently establish either:

“God exists.”

or

“God does not exist.”

So claiming that Christians are “the winners” because nobody has disproved God is simply declaring victory because the opponent has not accepted your premise.

You have successfully argued that self-creation is incoherent. You have not successfully argued that the universe was created by a conscious being, that the being is God, or that the God is the Christian God.

Those are four different propositions, and you have provided evidence for only the first.

So no, atheism has not been defeated. You have simply taken an unanswered question about ultimate reality and inserted your preferred answer into the gap.

“We don't know” is intellectually honest.
“Therefore God” is an additional argument.

And an additional argument still requires proof[/b].

Now you are trying to play for reargument, distortion and confusion as you pretend to forget that that you were the one stated that
The first step of science and all. And that you confessed that "you agree".

So, it is laughable that you would go against your own confession and admission and now turn around and claim that “you have never observed a thing creating itself".

Since you agreed with me, then there is nothing more to prove.

And everything after the XXXX in red is
1) a reargument
2) FALLACIES OF RED HERRING/OFF POINT
3) DEPARTURE FROM POST.
4) FALLACY OF REVERSAL OF BURDEN OF PROOF.

And if you want to dispute that everything must NOT be created by another thing and all that THEN THE BURDEN OF PROOF lies on you to prove the Truth of your belief, for you are the one who is now claiming something else which requires Valid Proof. And so your attempt to reverse the burden of proof backfires to you.

And you have no such proof, so then it means that the only valid standing proof and Truth, both in science (observation) and Law of logic, is the theory of “No thing creates itself”.
And no where did i say "You cannot prove me wrong, therefore I am right". Rather, following your inability to provide a valid counter, i simply recited the the Law of logic and Truth which states "There is no valid argument against the Truth" therefore, we Christians have won.

So, unless you provide a valid counter, we Christians remain winners and this argument is res judicata and you cannot reargue (relitigate) it.

Reinvented:
Stupidity is supposed to be a punishable offense

Na d op we suppose burn as she know say dem dey act play yet she kon talk dis kain talk

erad:
Once you started throwing around terms you don't understand, arguing with you became pointless.

See, because you can't argue, you have now resorted to personal attacks and claiming that I am just throwing terms which with a simple Google search you could confirm and reply.

But because you have nothing and cannot argue is why you resort to attacking me personally.

Yet, you thought you were logical.

Anyway, Atheism is built on Invalid arguments

And, Socrates has already told us what you are doing which is "when the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser

erad:
Why atheism is not a religion

No higher power:...

It is a person who did not go to school who is saying that if not he should have known that with a simple dictionary religion is defined as

re·li·gion
ri-ˈli-jən
commitment or devotion to a way of life or belief.

Nothing more, nothing less

erad:
Lol... Dude, ease on the antipsychotics.

See, because you can't argue, so you resort to personal attack.
Yet, you thought you were logical.

Anyway, Socrates did say that "when the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser".

yeshuasfootstep:
“No thing creates itself” does not prove that everything must have been created by something else.

The argument quietly assumes the very principle it wants to prove.

If something creates itself, then yes, there is a logical problem: it would have to exist in order to bring itself into existence. But that only establishes that self-creation is incoherent. It does not establish that every existing thing must therefore have an external creator.

The real question is: must reality itself have a creator?
.

You were the one stated that
The first step of science and all is observation and testing and conclusion follows, therefore your agreement that even you have not found anything which creates itself or is capable of creating itself, is already the first proof.

And the second proof is that if you dispute that everything must NOT be created by another thing, THEN THE BURDEN OF PROOF lies on you to prove the Truth of your belief, for you are the one who is now claiming something else which requires Valid Proof.

So, if you are unable to supply any valid proof in support of your claim,(of which already, it is clear that you have no such proof), then it means that the only valid standing proof and Truth,both in science (observation) and Law of logic, is the theory of “No thing creates itself”.

And that is why we Christians are the Winners of this argument for there is no valid argument against God, The Creator

No shift of post and the fallacy of red herring which is what the statement in red is. So, Invalid Argument.

Atheism is built on Invalid arguments.

And unfortunately for you guys, there is no Valid argument against the Truth".

DeepSight:
I am not an atheist.
I am basically agnostic.

I might say an agnostic-deist if that is not a stretch of combination.

Ok

LordReed:
This is a bad argument, you can use it for anything.

I know because there was no writing back then.

What is the evidence of these other factor(s)?

Ah! But you started the bad arguments and now you are raising it against him.

Deepsight, see why you should learn to identify bad arguments?

The fact that you are an atheist won't stop your brother atheist from using it against you whenever he feels like!

Anyway, that is how you atheists argue thereby making you people think that you are making sense