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Christianity Etc › Re: Some Atheists Pretend Not To Know That There Are Rules Of Argument! !!! by Dtruthspeaker(op): 4:29pm On Jan 03, 2024

5) THE UNEXPRESSED PREMISE RULE!

A PARTY MAY NOT FALSELY PRESENT SOMETHING AS A PREMISE THAT HAS BEEN LEFT UNEXPRESSED BY THE OTHER PARTY OR DENY A PREMISE THAT HE OR SHE HAS LEFT IMPLICIT.

(van Eemeren et al. 121)

Translation: You cannot attack by presenting what was not expressly presented by your opponent nor deny what is implied..

See Thorn here, introducing "first cause" because he knows this was one of the best arguments Christians earlier made in support of the Prooff of God and was prepared for it, so he added "first cause" and his personal bias to the argument, even adding another off point argument to it ALL BECAUSE HE COULD NOT ATTEND TO MY ANSWER!. grin

But i did not say "first cause"
Which I already know was floored, not wrong just not a perfect answer because it violates some Rules of Valid Argument. But hunkle could not see beyond this. grin

Thorrn:
The reason you keep thinking I'm moving any goalposts is because you haven't thought through the implications of your own argument.

If you're trying to hinge your God's existence on your sweeping belief that nothing in this world created itself, then you haven't accomplished anything significant. Demonstrating the objective existence of your God can't be achieved using mere common sense. If there is a first cause, how are you certain that it is the God you worship and not some other deity....

In all you say you still move and depart from the point of the argument.

I said nothing about first cause ...and as i told you before,...

SO WATCH OUT FOR HOW THEY ADD FRESH ARGUMENTS IN THEIR ATTEMPT TO RESPONSE.

Christianity Etc › Re: Some Atheists Pretend Not To Know That There Are Rules Of Argument! !!! by Dtruthspeaker(op): 3:47pm On Jan 03, 2024

Even after this warning you can see here how he desperately refuses to stay on the point of the argument

Thorrn:
If nothing gets created by itself, then what created the creator?

Still out of Point! The topic is about how we comnect to God, our Creator (proof of God). And not a focus on our Creator which is a Change of Post.

So, we understand if you are not able to proceed without your changing the argument which is proof of God and not Proof of whether God has a God where you are shifting the argument to in which you also forget that the implication means that you admit that God indeed exists and that your fresh interest is in finding out whether He was also created just like us or not WHICH IS NOT THE ARGUMENT, HENCE OFF POINT/CHANGE OF POST.

So, here you can all see why almost all the things atheist say in their arguments are all invalid and therefore have never truly countered that God does not exist.

Christianity Etc › Re: Some Atheists Pretend Not To Know That There Are Rules Of Argument! !!! by Dtruthspeaker(op): 3:37pm On Jan 03, 2024

4) THE STANDPOINT RULE (AkA OFF POINT/GOAL POST SHIFTING RULE. THE BIGGEST VIOLATIONS ATHEIST COMMIT) grin

Which is why you see Thorn complaining and lying that there is no Rule.

"A PARTY’S ATTACK ON A STANDPOINT MUST RELATE TO THE STANDPOINT THAT HAS INDEED BEEN ADVANCED BY THE OTHER PARTY (You cannot go off point).

(van Eemeren et al. 116)

Your standpoint is simply your claim, your basic argument in a nutshell. If you disagree with another person’s argument or they disagree with yours, the actual standpoint and not some related but more easily attacked issue must be addressed. For example, one person might argue that the rhetoric of global warming has created a multimillion-dollar green industry benefiting from fears over climate change. This is an argument about the effects of global warming rhetoric, not global warming itself. It would break the standpoint rule to argue that the writer/speaker does not believe in global warming. This is not the issue at hand.

Exactly what I told Thorn here.

Thorrn:
Sounds like a non-sequitur to me. How does something not having the capacity to create itself provide conclusive proof that God exists?

It's not because it is seen and proven beyond every reasonable doubt that no thing in this world created itself.

Thorrn:
Going by your logic, God must have been created by something then?

This is goal post shifting for the topic is on proof of God and not on proof that God was created.

Christianity Etc › Re: Some Atheists Pretend Not To Know That There Are Rules Of Argument! !!! by Dtruthspeaker(op): 3:24pm On Jan 03, 2024

Botragelad:
Nope. You aren't Making any point. What exactly is your point?

You obviously are setting yourself up to be a nuisance and a distraction knowing that this thread is damaging to atheists since I am telling everyone what they should watch out for when they argue with them.

Health › Re: Syringe-manufacturing Company Packs Up, Cites Challenging Business Situation by Dtruthspeaker: 3:02pm On Jan 03, 2024

This is definitely an economic attack on Nigeria. Devil dey vex say Nigeria no gree leave God! grin

We go use bamboo for syringe and e go work! Devil go shock! grin

14 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: Some Atheists Pretend Not To Know That There Are Rules Of Argument! !!! by Dtruthspeaker(op): 9:03am On Jan 03, 2024

Botragelad:
Cite an example!

I don't understand what you have in mind but in here I am already citing real debates that have already taken place.

Christianity Etc › Blow To The Head! Revelations 13:3 by Dtruthspeaker(op): 9:01am On Jan 03, 2024

My people do you see Revelations 13:3.Death by Blow to the head is connected to Genesis 3:15?

The more we destroy the works of Satan the more wounded he gets fatally wounded. That is why devils like lordReed and his seeds called atheists are always screaming and complsining whenever we attack any of Satan's structures like fornication, tattoos, multisexuality (whether gay or bisex or gender confusion madness or polygamy of all types).

So brothers and soldiers of Christ rain in the blows and crush the serpent's head for our Lord, The Lord of all, comes only after all these have been done, for He is indeed at hand and the more we make Satan bleed, the more closer He is accoming.

So Onward Christian Soldiers we are at war.
With The Word of Jesus
Going on before,
Christ, the royal Master,
Has already Led against the foe;
Forward into battle,
See his soldiers go!

Onward Christian Soldiers
Onward Christian Soldiers
We are at War.
With the Word of Jesus
Victory is assured!

Christianity Etc › Re: Some Atheists Pretend Not To Know That There Are Rules Of Argument! !!! by Dtruthspeaker(op): 8:25am On Jan 03, 2024

Botragelad:
Lol.
Okay what's your argument?

Ehen! You did not have any hidden bomb you wanted to drop? Ok o

I don't have any argument in this thread. I am just trying to show that there exists rules of fair debate which atheists think do not exist in their delusion and pretence things don't exist!

So technically, i don't have any argument here, save this little one you started.

Christianity Etc › Re: Some Atheists Pretend Not To Know That There Are Rules Of Argument! !!! by Dtruthspeaker(op): 8:09am On Jan 03, 2024*

3. THE BURDEN-OF-PROOF RULE- He who asserts must prove.

But atheists unreasonably think that once a person is to prove, he must prove forever (which is why they keep asking one silly off point question or the other ready to ask you these off point and irrelevant questions forever till you reasonably give up and then they say you have not proven your case.

And this is where they hate me because I cut them off with the laws of debate which guards against all stupid and unreasonable and invalid questions or argument..

And whilst they are keeping you busy asking all these stupd questions, they pretend not to know and see and hope to distract you with their useless questions, that once proof has been given, the burden of proof has shifted to them for them to give their own evidence of rebuttal.

And usually, because they have none, and because people do not know that the burden has shifted, they keep wailing that you should attend to their distractive off point arguments. which if you do, the burden of proof returns back to you, THEREBY EVADING AND ESCAPING THEIR DUTY OF DISCHARGING THE BURDEN OF PROOF WHICH FELL ON THEM.

Which is why many of you think that atheists are smart whereas they are scammers playing on your lack of knowing.

Which is why they hate me for I keep the burden of proof on them and I do not allow their irrelant questions and wailings to distract me as shown here

Re: Does God Exist? by Thorrn(f): 1:10pm On Nov 12, 2023
Dtruthspeaker:
Clearly I do know God is Real and most certainly exists and my first proof is simply on the ground that it is seen and clearly proven that it is impossible for a thing in this world to create itself.[quote]Sounds like a non-sequitur to me. How does something not having the capacity to create itself provide conclusive proof that God exists?

Going by your logic, God must have been created by something then?And
XXXXXXXXXXX

Do you see that he does not address my answer and proof but is doing the ask questions to eternity trick in dodging and evading the burden of giving a valid rebuttal as he pretentously pretends to not understand the answer I have given?

Who does that? Only an atheist! Pretentious frauds are they!

Christianity Etc › Re: Some Atheists Pretend Not To Know That There Are Rules Of Argument! !!! by Dtruthspeaker(op): 7:43am On Jan 03, 2024

2. THE FREEDOM RULE
PARTIES MUST NOT PREVENT EACH OTHER FROM PUTTING FORWARD STANDPOINTS OR CASTING DOUBT ON STANDPOINTS.

(van Eemeren et al. 110)

See how atheists attacked Aemmyjah

Re: Does God Exist? by Thorrn(f): 11:20pm On Oct 29, 2023
Aemmyjah:
Does God Exist?
The Bible’s answer...

Aw, shut up.

How many more times are we going to entertain this ridiculous circus from religious people? This is textbook circular reasoning, and is a logical fallacy. You argument was shot down before it even took off (by you, no less!). The Bible already presupposes the existence of God....

XXXXXXXXXXXCXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Here I corrected him that Aemmy is free to present his argument in line with the Rule of Freedom. BUT ATHEISM MEANS HATRED FOR LAWS AND RULES.

Re: Does God Exist? by Dtruthspeaker: 4:02pm On Nov 07, 2023
Thorrn:
..It is very obvious from the foregoing passage that when Aemmyjah set out on his quest to establish the existence of his God, he was basing his arguments on the holy texts of his religion - the Bible.[quote]I concede that he appears to have intended basing his argument on the bible but his accompanying extra biblical evidence proves that he did not intend to limit his evidence to the bible alone.

Therefore, he flung it open and thus he can lay on any extra biblical evidence he gave in his post.

Christianity Etc › Re: Some Atheists Pretend Not To Know That There Are Rules Of Argument! !!! by Dtruthspeaker(op): 7:35am On Jan 03, 2024

Botragelad:
Not necessary. You are deviating. You didn't answer my question. Are you in for a debate without deviating?

Deviating from where? Is it not your question "Do I need a debate that does not deviate ("without deviating)? Which I have answered that "every debate must be on the point of the debate..." which can be reasonably seen that I have so impliedly answered that I like debates being fair and on point.

But if you need me to spell it out, then I do say it again that I like debates being on the point of the debate with no departures or deviations from the point of the debate.

I wonder what evil you are cooking up. Anyway, i go see am. Shoot.

Christianity Etc › Re: Some Atheists Pretend Not To Know That There Are Rules Of Argument! !!! by Dtruthspeaker(op): 7:12am On Jan 03, 2024

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://open.oregonstate.education/goodargument/chapter/ten-rules-for-ethical-arguments/&ved=2ahUKEwi_p8W1xcCDAxVgWUEAHQGgD6oQFnoECCoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1dgm60s2C4HYJPoJDNYoCa

Christianity Etc › Re: Some Atheists Pretend Not To Know That There Are Rules Of Argument! !!! by Dtruthspeaker(op): 7:09am On Jan 03, 2024

No 1
Quora
https://www.quora.com ›
What are the basic rules of an 'argument'?
26 Jan 2019 — What are the basic rules of an 'argument'?
Top answer · 4 votes
The first basic rule is: Fight fair! No low blows, no insults or ad hominems. No fallacious

And see how atheist low blowed/ad hominemed me
"Dtruthspeaker chooses to make up HIS own rules of debate which veers off track from conventional logic. [b]He has proven countlessly over the years that he is severely incompetent on the subject of known logical fallacies because not only does he fail to identify them when he uses one, but he also misapplies them when he attempts to call other people out. His approach towards Christian apologetics is often so haphazard and sloppy that any seasoned Christian debater who watches him in action will be wishing he shuts up to save their position from further regression and embarrassmen[/b]t 😂.

Typical atheists argument.

Christianity Etc › Re: Some Atheists Pretend Not To Know That There Are Rules Of Argument! !!! by Dtruthspeaker(op): 6:58am On Jan 03, 2024

Botragelad:
Do you need a debate, without deviating. A fair one?

Every debate must be on the point of the debate without deviation nor departure and they must be fair, reasonable and valid at all times.

That is where people can reasonably see how an issue is True or a Lie/Right or Wrong.

And that is why when atheists devils like evillordReed see that they about to lose, they start trying to scatter and muddle the debate with lies and twistings and raising distractive/deviating issues. And this is where knowledge of The Rules of Debates come in as immediately an opponent does this, it is because he has seen thst he has lost the debate and therefore he is trying to scatter it so that simple people will not see that he has lost, therefore the debate is over.

Which is what I do to atheists hence their great cries and hatred and complaints against me. grin

So let everyone see that there are Rules of FairPlay for Debates!

Christianity Etc › Re: Some Atheists Pretend Not To Know That There Are Rules Of Argument! !!! by Dtruthspeaker(op): 6:21am On Jan 03, 2024*

Thorrn:
@Wilgrea7
The suggestion that another co-discussant is "shifting the goalposts" or talking "off point" in any forum of philosophical debate must be backed by adequate justification that appeals to the actual known rules of logical discourse, and not some made up, subjective "logic". [b]Unfortunately, Dtruthspeaker chooses to make up HIS own rules of debate [/b]which veers off track from conventional logic...

What rules? The rules that everyone pays obeisance to, or the rules that you made up for yourself and personally subscribe to? Is it the rules that cater to your own personal tastes and bias(es), that you can change at your subjective whim if it no longer suits you?...

Christianity Etc › Re: Some Atheists Pretend Not To Know That There Are Rules Of Argument! !!! by Dtruthspeaker(op): 6:17am On Jan 03, 2024

Wilgrea7:
We've had several disagreements in the past.. most of which happen because you insist on shouting "change of post" or "off point" to anything that slightly deviates from your preconceived line of thinking.

But nonetheless, I have no desire to argue who was wrong and who was right.

That is the essence of the rules of arguments and debates There must be an end to debates or arguments as people can argue forever rendering the point of talking and arguing silly since no one can know who is right or wrong.

So the rules of argument ensure that all forms of distractive, deviative and irrelevant arguments are not made and if made, they must cut out and quashed, so that the Truth and the Right can be clearly and undisputably seen which is the point of arguing hence The Law, THERE IS NO VALID ARGUMENT AGAINST THE TRUTH!

Thus, everyone must make valid arguments to be Right and everyone knows when a foul or infraction is commitrd so it is not based on my thinking but based on the fact that every reasonable person knows that you cannot be arguing about cars and then a debater is trying to talk about bicycle.

Christianity Etc › Some Atheists Pretend Not To Know That There Are Rules Of Argument! !!! by Dtruthspeaker(op): 6:14am On Jan 03, 2024*

Here, you see an atheist crying and wailing because he lost the debate on "Proof of God" wherein he could not give any valid opposition even after I patiently waited for weeks for him to provide one. grin

So next thing he says is he accuses that

Thorrn:
...
Dtruthspeaker chooses to make up HIS own rules of debate which veers off track from conventional logic.

...What rules? The rules that everyone pays obeisance to, or the rules that you made up for yourself and personally subscribe to?

Atheists obviously think that they can
open their mouths and argue forever as long as it appears logical.

They even think that they can argue unceasingly and unendingly, thinking it is right and valid to argue every word and every sentence and anything in a debate INSTEAD OF THE POINT OF THE DEBATE.

Which is why most of their arguments are are invalid and u'

And which is why they are crying and complaining against me because I hold and beat them by The Rules of Debate

So, do you see how ttruly atheists are very lawless people who do not make valid arguments but are sinply exploiting your lack of knowledge of many things most especially The Rules of Valid debates which as you can see here, they pretend not to know of their existence? (Another delusion: Rules of debates Do not exist) grin

And as Satan'slordReed shows here, denials and lying and twisting is always an option whenever he sees he has lost the debate. grin

So, this is to present The Rules of Fair and Reasonable Debate (even though atheists do not like fairplay because they cannot play fair as they will never win if and when the argument is fair.) which the loser atheist is complaining about. grin

But first, here is their complaint. grin

Christianity Etc › Re: Truly, The Forbidden Fruit Is Sex! by Dtruthspeaker(op): 11:44am On Jan 02, 2024

kotaru:
I don't really think so God never intended Human to die He wanted them to live forever wasn't He coming to the Garden to Seek Their (Eve and Adams Company) and Chat with them it was their eating of the forbidden fruit ( Fruit of knowledge and wisdom)that angered Jehovah and made Him drive them out of the Garden!!...

If you went to your children's room and you found out that they just had sex against your command won't you throw them out of the house?

Christianity Etc › Re: The Pope Issue On Gays Is Still Within The Bible Rules by Dtruthspeaker: 11:32am On Jan 02, 2024

efficiencie:
Oga don't deceive yourself. ..

Tell him o! He and paxonel both share the no 1 spot as the greatest self deceivers of Nairaland GSDN

Christianity Etc › Re: The Pope Issue On Gays Is Still Within The Bible Rules by Dtruthspeaker: 11:29am On Jan 02, 2024

Emusan:
Using question to answer questions.

At least I committed my sin IN SECRET which makes it between me and my God.

Also, anything God detests I run away from it.

So, will you bless a known THIEF if he/she comes to you for prayer or blessing?

This is the question you're trying to dodge.

He always dodges unpleasant Truth.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Pope Issue On Gays Is Still Within The Bible Rules by Dtruthspeaker: 11:28am On Jan 02, 2024

Kingsnairaland:
You don't know me

I hate homosexuality to the core

But our aim for which God saved us and called us is to help other souls to become saved to..

Sorry, I know you. It is only people who are guilty of great abominations who desperately cling to a hope that if God forgives one great sinner, then he has to compulsorily forgive you for your own great sins. So this is you deluding yourself because of your sins

Christianity Etc › Re: Why I Became An Atheist by Dtruthspeaker: 11:18am On Jan 02, 2024

LordReed:
Is that you? LoLz!

As na you, by yourself take hand and mouth take learn to dey do wuru wuru amd magu magu you, na only you must chop am! So devil chop am jejely. grin

Hehehehe

Christianity Etc › Re: Why I Became An Atheist by Dtruthspeaker: 11:06am On Jan 02, 2024

LordReed:
LoLz. You are talking about yourself once again.

Says the magu magu

Christianity Etc › Re: Why I Became An Atheist by Dtruthspeaker: 10:39am On Jan 02, 2024

LordReed:
More like you don't consider the things you write since you are here castigating yourself. LoLz.

More like everybody dey see your twisty twisty and how you dey desperately try to cover am

Christianity Etc › Re: The Pope Issue On Gays Is Still Within The Bible Rules by Dtruthspeaker: 9:12am On Jan 02, 2024

Kingsnairaland:
Stealing and homosexuality still ends in hell only difference homosexuality sins against his own body and makes the spirit of God living in him to be sad

Or makes his human body to be sick with std and co.

Even Satan ends in hell but he was still punished to eat dust, the blasphemer in Leviiticus was still stoned to death and a thief was still punished to compensate the person he stole from up to 5 times.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why I Became An Atheist by Dtruthspeaker: 9:04am On Jan 02, 2024

Thorrn:
@Wilgrea7....:

E pain am well well! grin

this is obviously a rant of great pain Hahahahahaha grin

Christianity Etc › Re: Does God Exist? by Dtruthspeaker: 8:28am On Jan 02, 2024

Thorrn:
Of course, it's very convenient for you to dismiss my refutations as "noise" because you're at a loss as to which other way you can push your failure of an argument. ...

You are just making us laugh. People know the sound of empty barrels and noise making and desperate long long talks! grin

Christianity Etc › Re: Does God Exist? by Dtruthspeaker: 8:16am On Jan 02, 2024

TenQ:
Really!?
Does the laws of Physics exist before the "big bang/inflation"?

That's a question that can only be truly answered by The Law Maker for it is He Who knows the state of things before the supposed and alleged big bang.

The only part that anybody can give truthful talk on is about this House which we call earth and the things we have all seen and experienced. Anything outside this falls on imagination, speculations, wishes, hopes and dreams

And you should remember physics is referring to things we can all see aka physicals.

Christianity Etc › Re: Does God Exist? by Dtruthspeaker: 8:06am On Jan 02, 2024

Thorrn:
Before moving on to the main point of contention, I'll briefly address a few other comments relating to the overall topic:

Then you don't know dick squat about basic principles in logic.

In any TRUE dichotomy, the rejection of one alternative lends credence to the suggestion of the other alternative as the truth. Therefore, it follows that if I should deny the facts of alternative A, I am suggesting that alternative B is the truth. ..

See desperation! grin

Hahahahahaha grin

If i say change of post now, you woul start crying but look at the very big fallacy you just laid in the bold grin

So, as I deny Tinubu's presidency It means therefore that I say Kwankwanso is truly the president? grin

what a big comedian grin

Christianity Etc › Re: Does God Exist? by Dtruthspeaker: 7:53am On Jan 02, 2024

Thorrn:
...! Nevertheless, I refrained myself from preempting him any further and decided to give him the opportunity to explain himself properly.This was where my SECOND REQUEST FOR CLARIFICATION was made, which you can see above where I asked, "In the context of proving the existence of God, what is this statement supposed to mean if it's not supposed to suggest a first cause?"[

Having gone back to check for a response to my query about what the statement "nothing in this world" created itself suggests, I can still confirm that Dtruthspeaker has offered no clarifications as to what his claim implies, if it doesn't suggest the existence of a first cause..

I think i told you that your fear and fixation on first cause makes you blind wforhich is why you lost as I just now remembered that I argued against TenQ or so, also a Christian here, that first cause argument is an invalid argument because of the falls it truly has. grin

So raise a thread if you want a rematch. grin

Christianity Etc › Re: Does God Exist? by Dtruthspeaker: 7:07am On Jan 02, 2024

Thorrn:
Let me briefly come in here. The Cambridge Learner's Dictionary defines "proof" as a "fact or a piece of information that shows something exists or is true".

No you cannot come in. RIL (Res ipsa Loquitur. And we know proof. We use it everyday to catch employees, erring family members, neighbours and enemies . So RiL to you or Cambridge or D grin

Thorrn:
. Keen observers will notice how Dtruthspeaker slyly and deceptively tries to reject my attempt at scrutinizing his logic by spuriously claiming that I've shifted the goalposts.

Keen observers did notice that I only raised an objection to your departure from post while patiently waiting for you for weeks to address the post, until it was reasonable to conclude that you could not address the topic. grin

So clearly, the point of your post here is to relitigate grin

And you cannot do so because this one is settled already and you lost. and your attempt of re-arguing your lost case is a nullity grin

But, as I said above, if you want to re-litigate and rematch RAISE A THREAD! . grin

Christianity Etc › Re: Does God Exist? by Dtruthspeaker: 6:38am On Jan 02, 2024

Thorrn:
So, apparently this is Dtruthspeaker's reason for his decision to abandon ship in our debate over God's existence 😂😂.

see long long talk over simple thing! grin

The debate ended because you have no valid way to argue especially with your lying that you have not been clarified whereas you indeed got it grin

So, if you are so pained by your loss grin

and you want a rematch (re-litiigate), raise a thread and mention me. grin

I will meet you there and you will still find that you have nothing valid to say. grin

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