₦airaland Forum

NNTR:
With 1 Corinthians 15:45 and Genesis 2:7 mentioned above, you have the answer in plain sight, but I know for some, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding, simply because the capacity isnt there
No dulling.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

As I said "a slight description of our manufacturing processes as is usual.in a manual" which does not answer the ops interest as to the specific when and not a general when which is given by the passages you dropped.

sukkot:
my point being this whole born again concept is not what people think it really is. to be born again is to be enlightened and to evolve from your primordial self into a god being and once you attain that level you automatically shun all evil. that is being born again. its a lifestyle and spiritual overhaul not a religion . a reconnection to your higher self

Since you ended up saying "Shun all evil, lifestyle" I am in order.

NNTR:
That was due to your if I don't know, then, no one else, can know attitude.

No one has a monopoly of truth, so always, meaning, assume you can know things, coming from another person. Anyone can know, but the point is to understand (i.e. Proverbs 4:7)

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Then let us see if anyone can come forward to give a True Answer.

NNTR:
sukkot says Jesus Christ didnt die on any cross..

I have told him before that he is mad when he says this.

NNTR:
You flapping your arms as if like a drowning man in the middle of a fast running river.

We arent discussing suffering and hardship in the land. Please stay focussed on the subject matter being discussed. Quit going on tangents

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

I know! And I had left the thread till you brought me in.

sukkot:
of course they are not truly born again. and you know this your post opens up another argument about how christians say all their sins are nailed on the cross and so they can do whatever they want because their sins are nailed on the cross. which apparently is not the case because these people are the most wretched on earth. they hide behind the cross to commit their sins and wonder why their lives are wretched. they truly believe all they have to do is say father i am born again and from then on they can do whatever they want because their sins are nailed on the cross but they dont understand and connect that it is their sins that is bringing all these afflictions and no one gets away with sin

Those are the same people who were claiming being born again still showing that they are still the same unchanged liars and lovers of evil.

NNTR:
Don't we all 'only pursue life giving things and death avoiding things' and more?

If we all did, then there wouldn't be suffering and hardship in the land.

sukkot:
if Jesus christ died on the cross for our sins how come the country with the most amount of born again christians on the planet is the most wretched and most dilapidated and called the poverty capital of the world ?

Because they are truly not born again. They are still the same evil loving and doing people and it is impossible to deceive God. So, nothing for them and for you.

LordReed:
You claimed nations but when asked how many you flake or don't you know that nations indicate plural? LoLz.

I showed you one, the Ameleks and you moved to Jericho which is Canaan, a second one and I showed you. And these 2 are "nations" and not nation (one), so I am in order with the word "nations". No Road!

NNTR:
Duh. We are not discussing whether or not knowing this gives eternal life.

Simple, honest and sincere response would have been 'I dont know the answer'

I only pursue life giving things and death avoiding things.

LordReed:
How many of those nations attacked first?

Not my interest and Off Point! As long as you have seen that the enemies attacked Isreal first as they came out of Egypt.

Bubu4Sea:
Many people dont know that the first ever coup d'etat was not in Europe, Asia or Africa but in Heaven.

Satan when he was Lucifer, wanted to be worshiped like God (Isaiah 14:14).
Planned to set His throne like God's in the North,above other angels(Isaiah 14:13)(Ezekiel 28:15).
But it failed even before it got off the ground.(Isaiah 14:15) (Ezekiel 28:17)

Isaiah 14
12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation,
in the sides of the north:

14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15] Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Ezekiel 28
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so:
thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee...

You missed the words

13..., I will ascend into heaven,

14 I will ascend...

There was no coup in heaven. Satan was cast down and it was from here he thought of raising a coup up to heaven.

LordReed:
LoLz. I think you are lost. Go back and look at the question I asked you and then my 1st response to Dtruthspeaker on here.

And the issue here was that Isreal destroyed those nations only after those nations attacked them like Japan attacked US.

NNTR:
...If as you both claim that '... the Manual does not fully answer the "when" ...' well, I agree that joining and connecting dots, is not the easy skill neither of youse have learnt, and you haven't allowed the Holy Spirit to promote the ability within yourselves.

Knowing this does not give eternal life.

NNTR:
We do have the Manufacturer's manual aka Owner's manual though that tells us the answer for OP's question nah, havent we?...

The Manual only tells us our basic components and a slight description of our manufacturing processes as is usual. And emphasis is on "slight description".

And the Manual does not fully answer the "whens". The only way we know some whens is at the time our product has finished undergoing the manufacturing process and coming as a finished product.

NNTR:
We do have the Manufacturer's manual aka Owner's manual though that tells us the answer for OP's question nah, havent we?...

The Manual only tells us our basic components and a slight description of our manufacturing processes as is usual. And emphasis is on "slight description".

And the Manual does not fully answer the "when"

LordReed:
LoLz! Were the people of Jericho Amalekites? LMFAO!

See twisting serpent. Where you not the one who asked about Jericho after I had showed answered your question that Isreal was attacked first?

You have no thing! No Road!

sonmvayina:
Don't be a dummy..

Your brain is not for decoration..

Only a stupid Camry will think it valid to ask another Camry "when does our engine enter into us?"

Your thinking and brainbox is obviously not working.

Wilgrea7:
I feel like we're going in circles here. No one is debating that truth can shut some people up in some cases.

You have said the word "in some cases" and in this case, Truth has shut mouths for thousands of years, so no argument here, but here you are arguing unnecessarily.

Wilgrea7:
Ok. For the sake of other readers who may be following this discussion, I'll try to break it down as simply as I can.

1) We know that for a lot of time throughout history, writing was not a thing.

Sorry, you can not hold brief for a party who never raised a case against the Bible's records. This is like a lawyer going to court with no complainant. (Plaintiff)

Wilgrea7:
2) Your argument can be used in defense of other religious books.

That is why I said "Each group has a right to defend themselves on their own force and merit".

Wilgrea7:
Your best "proof" is a simple self-evident question. I have agreed that a thing cannot create itself multiple times.

Following your agreement that it is not possible for a thing to create itself, I then impliedly asked you if a non-living thing or a non-person could build a House, (earth) such as ours, which we can all see is deliberately put together in an organised fashion or it would take a Person to build this House and put us in it.

And at this question, you went off.

Wilgrea7:
Now, it's up to you to take the discussion from "A Creator/creators" to "your specific creator", which you've failed to do so. Terribly.

I even addressed this showing you that 2 Kings cannot rule one country at the same time and the world's history proves this but as I have said, you denied them.

And now this stranger has destroyed the family and the world.

Dtruthspeaker:
Copied

*THE STRANGER I GREW UP WITH !!!*

A few years after I was born, my Dad met a stranger who was new to our city. From the beginning, Dad was fascinated with this enchanting newcomer and soon invited him to live with our family.

The stranger was quickly accepted and was around from then on.

As I grew up, I never questioned his place in my family. In my young mind, he had a special niche.

My parents were complementary instructors: Mum taught me Good from Evil, and Dad taught me to Obey.

But the stranger.. he was our storyteller. He would keep us spellbound for hours on end with adventures, mysteries and comedies.

If I wanted to know anything about politics, history or science, he always knew the answers about the past, understood the present and even seemed able to predict the future!

He took my family to the first premiership game. He made me laugh, and he made me cry. The stranger never stopped talking, but Dad didn't seem to mind.

Sometimes, Mum would get up quietly while the rest of us were shushing each other to listen to what he had to say, and she would go to the kitchen for peace and quiet.
(I wonder now if she ever prayed for the stranger to leave.)

Dad ruled our household with certain moral convictions, but the stranger never felt obligated to honor them. Profanity, for example, was not allowed in our home - not from us, our friends or any visitors. Our long time visitor, however, got away with four-letter words that burned my ears and made my dad squirm and my mother blush.

My Dad didn't permit the liberal use of alcohol but the stranger encouraged us to try it on a regular basis. He made cigarettes look cool, cigars manly, and pipes distinguished.

He talked freely (much too freely!) about sex. His comments were sometimes blatant, sometimes suggestive, and generally embarrassing.

I now know that my early concepts about relationships were influenced strongly by the stranger. Time after time, he opposed the values of my parents, yet he was seldom rebuked.. And NEVER asked to leave.

More than forty years have passed since the stranger moved in with our family. He has blended right in and is not nearly as fascinating as he was at first.

Still, if you could walk into my parents' den today, you would still find him sitting over in his corner, waiting for someone to listen to him talk and watch him draw his pictures.


His name?..

We just call him *TV*

(Note: This should be required reading for every household!)

He has a wife now.. we call her *Computer*
Their first child is *Cell Phone*.
Second child *video games*
By the way, they now have a wonderful grand child
she is a genius!
she is fondly called *Whatsapp*.
She is nearly more popular than her mom
her older cousin is *Facebook* and new baby cousins are *Snapchat*, *Instagram*

*This Stranger and members of its family appear to have taken up permanent residence in our homes "and we seem powerless to check their excesses."*

LordReed:
LoLz! See change of post. Na you mention Amalekites na you con dey change mouth. LMAO!

You no get anything to talk for e dey clear say you shift post go where Jericho first attack the Israel and I don answer and you no get anything to say. No Road!

Good reason would have told you that this question is for man's Manufacturer and not for men.

Gopkk:
Many People do not Accept him as Personal saviour ,They are not Ritualist ,they don't practise Mathew 6 v 33 ,They Have good paying jobs ,Live comfortably .etc

Accepting of Jesus Christ into one's life Guarantees Heaven Making Not Comfort in this World .

Out of billions of World Population there must be some very few people who have accepted Jesus christ Yet still living in Abject Poverty ,Suffering , I repeat Salvation in Christ doesn't Guarantee Wealth ,Comfort and Solutionsto Suffering in this World .The Main reward is in Heaven ..

Without figuring out what the popular statement "accepting Jesus" means, not only will they stay in the Curse of poverty, but also NO ETERNAL LIFE FOR THEM!

LordReed:
Was it only the Amalekites they purportedly genocided? Where did the people of Jericho first attack the Israelites?

Now you have changed post from showing you were you can see those fools doing their own pearl harbour attack to where did Jericho first attack.

Just to pay lip, Jericho means Canaan like Kherson means Ukraine.

And Canaan attacked Isreal first. So, like kershon and Zaporizhzhia to Russia, Jericho will definitely be targeted by Isreal

NO ROAD!

LocalStandard1:
Sometimes I feel they're doing all these for some kin. of approval and nod from someone...

They know that they are being stupid and they also feel the spirit of stupidity sitting on them, SO THEY NEED SOME ONE, EVEN A MADMAN'S APPROVAL WILL SUFFICE, SO THAT THEY DO NOT DIE OF THE STUPIDITY THEY FEEL.

That is why we see them go crazy and berserk when you call them stupid and foolish because they already feel that way.

LordReed:
Show me where all of the tribes they purportedly killed attacked them first.

You already know for I have told you before and being an evil that you are, you have already read from when Isreal succcesfully left and escaped Egypt in Exodus 14 to chapter 17 where you saw the Amelikites were the First to come attacking Isreal, like Japan attacked US.

So, you already know for you have seen it before and I have told you before. Case Closed!

KnownUnknown:
According to their book of demented fairy tales, the Israelites’ god was in the rear guard with Moses and the priesthood but he received his share of the bounty after the genocides.

Britain genocides Scotland and Ireland and Wales and took their bounty (War spoils). They did it to Africa, America did it to Iraq and Iran. Russia is doing it to Ukraine right now.

Your hatred for God has made you very very Stupid and insane.

LordReed:
LoLz. Tell me in your bible the Israelites committed genocide, should we blame them or the god who they say sent them?

Satan, the Bible clearly showed us who to blame and that is the stupid enemies who First attacked a nation, like Japan made the mistake of attacking US and therefore Atomic bomb genocided them.

And funny, even after America's genocide, Japan was the one who apologized to them for attacking them.

Washington Post, November 22, 1994.
"In 1991, on the 50th anniversary of the attack, the prime minister of Japan issued an apology, of sorts, to the United States, expressing "deep remorse ... that we inflicted an unbearable blow on the people of America and the Asian countries"

hopefulLandlord:
Cry more

Proof that atheists are devils and the Antichrists that the Bible prophecied would come to destroy men.

LocalStandard1:
I refer to them as "religious" cos I see these sets of people are the most obsessed and opinionated about and on the aspect of others' believes and practices.

I mean, they practically sleep on the religion section and have taken over the section with extreme vile an sadism.

They are the so called "atheists".

You say you don't believe in something (allegedly), yet you are all about and over the place filling every post and thread with your issues. How's that?

I've been on Nairaland for years and I promise you I've never commented on religious threads outside the Christian ones,which I proudly am. These people don't ever even create their own posts, why's that? Why always derailing most especially Christian threads?

Stop it!!! All these trolling doesn't make you out as intelligent and enlightened but hateful and obsessed sadists.
If you're so intellectually savvy why are you so devoid of engaging post ideas? Huh?

If you want to talk religion or so called atheism create your own posts. Do what you allegedly claim to preach, respect other peoples' believes. Okay?!

Thank you and I hope I made some sense here.

You said the Truth.

Wilgrea7:
... BUT it is not the only condition under which silence occurs.

Hence you have reached where I am wherein I said "we know when silence occurs because Truth has shut all mouths! Exactly as we know that no can raise a case saying that Buhari was never the president of Nigeria. The Truth of it has shut everyone up both now and for maybe a 100 years. That is how it works.

Wilgrea7:
Let me give you some friendly advice. Before you jump into a thread screaming “change of post" try to understand what the person is saying.

When you're sure you understand, then you can start drafting a reply. If you don't understand, ask for clarification.. rather than screaming an irrelevant phrase.

I told you before, once you step out of the issue of discuss, i would call for foul, exactly as play cannot continue when there is a foul in any game. So, sorry, your change of post is not allowable.

Wilgrea7:
You were talking about objections during the biblical times. I showed you the fallacy in your analogy, and then made reference to other books....
What exactly do you mean by make a case about it? Are you talking about denying it, or affirming it?

There is no fallacy when you are trying to find out if any person or groups of people who raised an objectionagainst the report of the Bible at the relevant time the Bible was written.

It is either you found a party which sued the Writers of the Bible stating this case against them OR none sued because, the facts recorded were True.

And unfortunately for you people, NO ONE SUED BECAUSE THE BIBLE RECORDED THAT WHICH WAS TRUE.

So, No Case both for them and for you.

Wilgrea7:
My refusal to accept it won't change the fact that it happened. Also, if someone made up a false or inaccurate story, my desire to accept it won't make it true.

As I've been saying before, it all falls back to evidence for the claims made.

You have only repeated what I said which is evidence or not, you will accept whatever you choose to accept and reject whatever you choose to reject, whether evidence supports your acceptance/rejection or not.

Which is why your judgement is already invalid because it is not based on Truth and The Laws of establishing Truth, which if course you do not know and cannot know, which is why you see that no one sued the writers and compilers of the Bible because, whatever they wished to say was already automatically a Lie.

Wilgrea7:
No one has a right to deny reality.

I cannot count how many times you broke this your law for I asked you if a thing creates itself and you denied real-eyeity by refusing to say The Truth!

So, you see, even you violated this your own law. Anyway, this is not the issue.

Wilgrea7:
The issue here isn't about who has the right to do what. that's pretty irrelevant in my opinion.

The issue here is ABOUT ABILITY OF HE WHO JUDGES TO DO WHETHER THE RIGHT OR THE WRONG!

Wilgrea7:
The disagreement between what is true, and what isn't, can easily be solved is there is tangible evidence to corroborate the claims made. In the absence of evidence, the claims made are simply just claims.

Bet you never heard this statement before.

"A fox should not be on the jury at a goose's trial" Thomas Fuller.

No matter what evidence a goose brings to its trial by foxes, the foxes will always say "I can not see any evidence".

Wilgrea7:
If I as an atheist, lack the belief in your bible stories because of lack of evidence, it isn't me “exercising my right" to deny “truth".. it is simply me choosing not to accept something that has no evidence.

We have all been proving our cases whilst we were growing up and we all know when a judge is unreasonable and biased and unjust.

And in here it has been proven innumerable times that you atheists are blind and biased and unjust judges. So, whatever you say, we all know the Truth and understand why you people refuse to see that which we see, you have seen as you said "denial of real-eyeity."

Wilgrea7:
If you want to call something true, then you should provide the evidence that makes it such. If you want to call your bible stories true, then provide the evidence that make them so.

If you fail to, then you have absolutely no claim to truth

As the American Declaration of Independence said, "WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS TO BE SELF EVIDENT, ...".

Self evident means it can be seen by all. And if there is anyone who claims not to see that which is seen by all, such a person is a liar or blind or both, which is what you atheists have been proven to be!

And I am back where I started

Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance. (or unacceptance)

W. Clement Stone