₦airaland Forum

chryssanthe:
Do you deny that your god commanded, in Leviticus (Deuteronomy and Exodus), humans to own another human as property?

I denied it and you saw I told you to blame your evil bible for that.

chryssanthe:
Do you hold this as being morally permissible?

Having denied that God did not command the doing of slavery, therefore the reasonable question is the good (moral) He was doing?

Answer: Providing Law to control and regulate the labour relationship.

chryssanthe:
Which is immoral too!

You call paying off of debts owed in a contract immoral?

That clearly proves how deficient your moral meter is!

chryssanthe:
Is owning another human being as property a form of oppression? ...as described in the very next verse, which you left conveniently out, you slimy liar!

As I said, your moral meter does not work else you would have seen how people are willingly offering themselves up to serve other human beings. No force or duress. Even joyfully!

chryssanthe:
How about your aunt beats you so hard that you die within 4 days!? Because thats totally aok, according to your bible!!

If she had killed me then, I'll be dead and my problems over. So, you have nothing.

chryssanthe:
That was a rule for Hebrew slaves only. And in verse 17, god tells you how to trick fellow hebrews into permanent slavery!

Which Verse 17?

This one says "ye shall not oppress one another"; Leviticus 25:17

And this is not for Hebrews alone but for everyone in the land of Israel

chryssanthe:
That was a rule for Hebrew slaves only. And in verse 17, god tells you how to trick fellow hebrews into permanent slavery!

Which Verse 17?

This one says "ye shall not oppress one another"; Leviticus 25:17

Tamaratonye1:
It's interesting how obsessed with intrinsic behaviors Christianity is. We have souls, so we, too, have a nature. And according to the bible, right and wrong are "written in our hearts." Is our heart different from our soul? Do we have not one but two intrinsic natures, each warring with each other? And yet we are also cursed with original sin. Does that mean our nature is inherently bad, or only that we start off hobbled in the race to be good by an inherited burden?

First, soul and heart is the one and same.

Secondly as you correctly observed, you truly have 2 Natures (good and evil).

But along your growing up, you chose one nature over and above the other, of course the more popular and the most promoted nature, evil, which always always condemns and covers the good at all costs including bringing murder upon children who would not choose evil.

And having chosen that way, hence your nature becomes a sin loving and sin doing nature, just as happened to the first sinner.

EricBloodAxe:
Without sex between ur father n mother u wouldn't have existed so instead of thanking an imaginary being for ur existence u should rather pass the gratitude to ur parents...

Without our first mother and father being manufactured by Someone and giving them the power to replicate and duplicate themselves, you might not be here to speak or they won't be your mother and father but your fellow production batch.

walkbrazil4k:
Yes, right, just as the headline says, is religion, not a scam? You are probably wondering why I am asking this question, well, I would give you my reason and I just need you to confirm or make me understand why religion is not a scam, I am a Christian, (not a brainwashed one), I have an open mind and I can attend any church, sorry I won't play that game of division, because at the end of the day no church can tie me down.


Ukraine and Russia are both orthodox Christians, brothers, and neighbors, but why are they killing each other like this? Can't they settle it? Even the leader of the orthodox church in Russia was supporting the war, so tell me, is religion not a scam? Share your thoughts guy

Christianity is not a scam but humans are not Christ-like therefore, they do all things evil eg scamming and pursuing other people's properties (covetousness), all against The Laws of Christianity.

Therefore, Russia/Ukraine are not Christians.

Maynman:
And you keep proving it bwahahah

I am snake proof but my neighbour is not. Thanks for proving that anti-Gods are cobras.

GodSaklek:
I know that many ignorant Nigerian like you will try to defend the lies that was puts into their brains when they were growing up,something you knew nothing about or how it was made

I know that many Ignoring Nigerians come to attack me with this statement when they are not able to validly and reasonably attack my argument.

Maynman:
Religion really dumbs the brain.

And we know only a fool will sit down on a chair next to a cobra

midnight378:
The 1st century BC Greek historian Dionysius of Halicarnassus indicates that the Roman institution of slavery began ...

Off Point. The issue is not that whether the Romans participated in slavery.

midnight378:
As we see "Natural law" did them a lot of good.
As the Roman would say "Nugae, ineptiae, gerrae"

We already know that people are not good and will disobey a good Law.

midnight378:
Ephesians 6:5
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."

Correction
Ephesians 6:5
Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

midnight378:
.. now look up on Google "The Law of Hammurabi" and come back and tell me what the two dates are.

One is FAR FAR earlier than the other .
Hint : It's not the Twelve Tables.

You forget it is not an old age debate but you called on me to show how far back men started creating legal. And I said legal then was based on Natural Laws and Natural Rights and not dependent on the wishes and desires of men who could kill and destroy other men and the society now called politicians and cabals.

Which is why we see every expression of Natural Law and Natural Right eg.

Damnum non facit qui iur suo uttitur - Harms no one, he who exercises his lawful rights.

Culpa ubi non est, nec poena esse debet- Where there is no guilt, there is no punishment.

And the famous
Volenti non fit injuria- Acting voluntarily, no harm was done.

chryssanthe:
But, as I am in a funny mood, let's grant you are right: ur nammu never existed. Roman law is still, by far, not the oldest law we have, and it is not the only law our societies are following today, not even Christian societies.

You did not state which societies have legals older than the Romans.

chryssanthe:
If you claim the "God of Morals" is so moral, would you become my slave under the connditions spelled out by Leviticus 25? Or anyone elses slave for that matter,?

Leviticus 25 is one the origins of Labour Laws and Contracts. Contract dictates that all debts must be paid, therefore, following a persons inability to satisfy a debt, therefore people offered themselves to the service of the creditor .exactly like washing plates today when you fall to pay for food in a canteen.

Therefore, Leviticus 25 is setting down what must happen in this case specially verse 43 even declares God being against any and every form of oppression

"Thou shalt not rule over him with rigour; but shalt fear thy God".

So, I have to be in your debt first before I can become your slave or servant. And in that Leviticus 25 is very beautiful for me or anyone as many of us have already seen worse. My own aunt deprived me of food when I worked with her because my mom (breadwinner) retired and went abroad for greener pastures and left me in her care. My day started from 5am and ended at 11:30 to 12 midnight.

So, I know what slavery is and I know that Leviticus 25 is indeed good and because of her wickedness and evil I verily found God, Whom I cried to day and night, year after year, until One Day, He Started speaking to me and telling me what to do and He made a Way and Rescued me from all my captors and set me free and made strong and blessed and increased me, As He did for Jacob in laban's house and Isreal in Egypt.

Which is how I found God and knew Him and understood His Ways which is why I am now His advocate. My Life is living miracle of one who has seen evil and hell and death BUT THE LORD HAD MERCY ON ME AND SAVED ME!

1000WaysToLive:
...-And why do you think that is?

Because one god somewhere, that none of them had ever heard of, is said to have said something...

Following his inability to supply places where stealing is approved and honoured, it clearly proves beyond doubt that one Mighty some where, DID WRAP UP THE WORLD WITH THE SAME MORALS, whether they have heard of Him or not, which was my point.

1000WaysToLive:
You seem to have a low opinion of your faculties.

You just had to give a low blow when all I have said is that no one appointed me Judge

1000WaysToLive:
Sure, I've been talked into and out of things - not always because the other person makes good arguments...but it definitely helps when they do.

What argument would -you- make..to stop a person from stealing? Tell them that someone else said not to do it?

No matter how good an argument is people never change. So to a thief, all I would tell him is that, it ends in death either by prison stabbings or by mobbing or by shooting.

1000WaysToLive:
YOU SAID: Would it release or chain a slave? No.

Yes, actually....history is full of people getting others to pursue or forego acquiring human property...

You know this does not cut it. Giving a judgement setting a person free is not the same as lobbying.

1000WaysToLive:
YOU SAID: Therefore, let Those who can set the captives free come and Judge.

The fate of a slave being left with their master is a complete dereliction and perversion of anything that could be credibly called an objective moral position.

True! But are you breaking down people's doors and offices judging them for keeping slaves at home or in the office? No.

We need The Creator and Owner of man. It is He Who the Power to break down all doors and no one will be able to stop Him.

So, I prefer to wait for Him.

Davidf555:
It's a thing to believe in a thing or in a God, having opinions about somethings that's personal sure.
But why must others believe exactly what you believe? Why must everyone be christian or Muslim in your eyes before you believe that" the society is saved"

Because it would help us know how to behave when we are around people.

People who are anti-God are people whom we must expect shall do us wickedness and evil eg expect them not to pay after you have done work for them or sleep with your wife when they have opportunity.

FxMasterz:
Jesus already answered your question.

Matthew 7:6
"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.''

He spoke parables to the crowd, and then explained it to the disciples. Was He not right? The same crowd was shouting 'Crucify Him!" after all the miracles He did before their eyes.

Thank you.

People do not know that the Bible is not for everyone, especially the evils.

chryssanthe:
Why is it that you can not address such a simple question? Is it your religious programming that puts up a firewall?
Please try again!
#1 Your god commanded slavery (or whatever you want to call it)*
#2 The Law never changes (according to you)
#3 Do you agree with slavery still being morally permissible?

*so he basically already judged.....slavery to be a-ok

I answered you I told you He did not command slavery and that it is your evil Bible talking. I bet that Bible does not contain that He commands that every 7 years a person in bonds must be free and his debt (liability) cancelled.

chryssanthe:
So you, a supposed adult (or at the very least young adult) are completely incapable of knowing whether slavery is...

Of what effect is my judgement? Nil.

Would it stop you from being who you are and want to be? No.

Would it release or chain a slave? No.

Therefore, let Those who can set the captives free come and Judge.

midnight378:
I'm confusing nothing . There are countless societies in the world, and in world history where stealing from others IS the way they lived, and no one "frowned" on it.

See, you could not name a few places were stealing was a Law in force were In fact if you are not a thief, they would punish you, but if you were a thief, they honoured you.

midnight378:
Many cultures made the laws to permit child sacrifice . you just simply wrong and ignorant.

I did not ask whether many cultures made laws.

midnight378:
meaningless drivel. They ALWAYS had their own cultures, which evolved. Your ignorance is astounding.

I did not ask if they had their own cultures.

midnight378:
You need to get a BASCIC education . Take Anthropology 101, and you will lean how cultures and law evolved.
You HAVE NO EVIDENCE ANY LAW EXISTED until it evolved, in different ways in different places, AND you have nothing to show us that some sort of per-existing law code existed BEFORE humans formed their law codes.

In other words, you refuse to answer the questions since you see it implicates you, so you decided to commit the fallacy of Changing Post and Switching the burden of Proof.

midnight378:
Human societies have existed for more than 10,000 years, maybe FAR older than that.

Change of Post/Off point. I did not say humans did not exist more than 10, 000yrs.

midnight378:
Human legal system evolved very differently in different cultures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Ur-Nammu

Change of Post Didn't ask you whether human legal system evolved.

midnight378:
Prove it.
You're not very good at this. Is this your first debate ?
No more unsupported assertions (claims) from you without evidence.
You are dismissed unless you support what you claim with evidence or support . Do you even know what that means ?

All I said is right in your Google. So Google them.

But since you want to be spoon fed here is the Google reference

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ius_naturale&ved=2ahUKEwiAmrqHs8L6AhUdQ_EDHYpGAx0QmhN6BAgIEAI&usg=AOvVaw2pJ2v_sAJTVScEMa6I2wkV

"Romans gave to Natural law a great importance in their daily lives . They mentioned once "ius naturale est quod natura omnia animalia docuit", which means the right that nature gave to all living things.[citation needed]


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Tables

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_law&ved=2ahUKEwjPmtKd5cH6AhVRg_0HHZCvDOYQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3pTie3dFe1salTe6jKt4K-

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_English_criminal_law

And besides this request for reference, you said nothing in counter. ALL YOUR RESPONSES ARE OFF POINT, A DEPARTURE FROM ISSUE, A DODGING OF POINT AND FALLACY AD HOMINEM. ALL BECAUSE YOU CAN NOT PROVIDE A REASONABLE AND VALID COUNTER

chryssanthe:
Code of Ur-Nammu says hello
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Ur-Nammu

You are wrong by ca. 2000y! Looking back from today towards Rome, thats... 100%!...

More commonly known as the Summerian Code. Except for the hearsay claim nothing else is truly and directly known about it, especially with its extinction. So it is an unreliable source of law.

So I think it fit to stick to real-eye-able places, who still exist today as it was in the past.

1000WaysToLive:
Cool...and how did this god of morals know which was which?

If you can tell which things are good from those things which are evil, then He Too can.

The Creator and Giver of Discernment must surely have plenty of Discernment in Store, exactly like a jobless man cannot give you a job!

midnight378:
You really need to get back to Sunday School and pay attention this time.
The entire premise of your religion is that the law changed, and that EVERYTHING changed when your religion started.
How is it you are unaware of what your religion teaches ?

The ENTIRE set of your religion's "laws" changed.
St Paul tried to teach you that the law changed. The New Covenant .

2 Corinthians 3: 7-11 : "...

the Old Testament had about 612 things (sorry it's 613)
"There are 613 mitzvot in the Torah and they guide Jews on how to live a good life. Jews believe that God gave the mitzvot to Moses and that they formed part of the covenant at Mount Sinai ."
your god required of the Chosen People. SIX HUNDRED and THIRTEEN .
They all changed. I bet you don't even know 20 of them . I bet Jews don't even know 20 of them. ..

Paul did not say they changed he said "they have been brought back afresh since Isreal had continuously and extensively disobeyed bastardized them and changed them

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the Righteousness of God" Romans 10:3

Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me,.. Malachi 3:7

So, Isreal too, like the rest of the world made their own laws (legal) and had cast aside God's Laws.

Which Christ brought back hence "New Covenant" because it is now new to all of us who are familiar with the legal and have technically never seen those Laws before!

That is what Paul was saying, but of course it is expected that criminals would bend it into a way that they can make it comfortable for themselves.

chryssanthe:
You think it is still morally permissible to own human beings as property, to buy them, to inherit them to your children, and keep them for life?...

That is for The God of Moral to Judge! But it is sufficient to know that The God of Morals did command that "that which is good, should be done and that which is not good/evil, should not be done"

And we all know those things which are good to do or not do as separate from those things which are not good/evil, to do or not do.

So knowing this, "We each walk the path, that we've chosen" Dmx. (And shall be judged by it)

midnight378:
Wrong again .
What are considered "natural laws" varies from culture to culture.

That is not True!

You are confusing customary law with Natural Law.

Natural Law is the same everywhere exactly as there isn't any culture where stealing and adultery is not frowned upon.

midnight378:
LOL .....and when my daddy gets home, he's gonna beat up your daddy.
How incredibly childish ...

Aren't you the one being childish here saying this?

Just say you do not have any reasonable to thing to say further.

midnight378:
You have no evidence, (and you have presented nothing sensible) for this unfounded assertion : "They are the laws which made man and everything in this world."
LOL ... and what are these "laws" and exactly where did they come from ?
What are these laws which you *claim* "made man and everything in this world", and what are you even talking about ?
Provide the evidence.

As I said, you don't know!

If men made laws is the question not then "Did they not have Law before they made their law?

Where they not under Law which they obeyed and were obeying before they made their own version?

When the man or people who manufactured their law, was born did they bring the law with them?

Secondly, All the laws men make have a time when they made them which the records showed started only around the 12th century Eg The Law of the 12 Tables (Year 449BC)

British Treason Act (Year 1351)

Suppression Act Year (1414).

And Roman legal is the oldest of all man made laws and all other places copied from them.

Meanwhile, at that time Roman Law was based on 'Natural Law" which Cicero and other Natural Law,ers influenced and formulated.

the state exists to uphold laws which are in harmony with the universal principles of nature. If a state does not uphold right reason in agreement with nature, it is not a state. Cicero.

And it is still that same place you people get all those things you call rights from eg Audi altered partem, Nemo judex in causa Sua etc

All these coming from Natural Law and not from your man made law called legal.

Wilgrea7:
Doesn't change the fact that your arguments weren't making any logical sense.

Anyways, happy Sunday to you.

Because you people measure logic based on pleasure. So immediately it is unpleasant to you people, you then say it is 'illogical'.

Wilgrea7:
What shall we debate today?

Always ready for a reasonable debate.

Evilblackman:
Gibberish

As your mouth has been allowed to say!

Davidf555:
Does the explanation of God existing comes from a personal failure of understanding the surroundings and understanding nature
Or A god is real, if he's real why're there so many of them?

Mostly because He Stays Away from men exactly like leaving your car in one of your houses far away.

And secondly because His Staying Away is better than His Coming to men because, He will not accept nonsense and rubbish done in His Presence.

So, He left men alone so that they can "enjoy" the life He has already given them before He quences it.

Evilblackman:
You can’t control my actions before na
Omo your perspective is very odd

Narrow is The Way, so naturally everything on that road would be very uncommon and strange to folks on the regular popular way.

Wilgrea7:
I'm most certainly happy that someone else is calling out Dtruthspeaker on this illogical and mentally draining rebuttals.

Someone from your side is still the same as you. So, it does not count.

Evilblackman:
You are afraid not me
I’ve stopped being scared of the unknown
Stop using your self to judge others all the time

No wahala. It's your mouth and that one is beyond my control.

Evilblackman:
Or killed for you have already said the truth

Affirmative!.Or murdered.